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The Bar => The Lounge => Topic started by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 28, 2011, 12:34:09 PM

Title: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 28, 2011, 12:34:09 PM
I'm working on a scene, and I would be very grateful for your opinions on whether or not this would rank among one of the most beautiful, elegantly dreadful and effective final statements ever concocted.

I'm hesitant to give you any clue as to story context, because I want it to seem as credible coming from a normal (albeit sociopathic) human being, as it would an immortal demon.

Quote
I am going to kill you. I am going to end your life, but rather than allow you the privilege of haunting the normal, where you might find some small comfort in staying connected to the bliss you once knew, you shall haunt the insane, where the hell you are about to experience for eternity will seem orgasmic compared to the inhuman suffering you are now damned to dream of every night.

The unbearable pain of your reality will be your only relief from the unspeakable horrors you will experience in your sleep.

Thanks so much for whatever "notes" you could give me.  :-)

PS - Please feel free to submit your re-writes.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Gina on March 28, 2011, 12:36:39 PM
wow, that is very "gripping" (sorry, not a literary genius).  It did get my heart pumping reading it. :cheersmate:

and this last line.......

Quote
The unbearable pain of your reality will be your only relief from the unspeakable horrors you will experience in your sleep.


soooooooooooo good.  Might need to save for future use  :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 28, 2011, 12:40:27 PM
wow, that is very "gripping" (sorry, not a literary genius).  It did get my heart pumping reading it. :cheersmate:

and this last line.......

soooooooooooo good.  Might need to save for future use  :-)

You're awesome. Thanks. I'm trying to invoke "Pinhead" from the Hellraiser films when he said, "...your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell," but having it come from a protagonist who has been so severely wronged, ANY revenge he devises, no matter how violent and depraved, might be accepted by the audience, but envisioned before it is ever seen.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DefiantSix on March 28, 2011, 12:41:29 PM
Not bad at all.  

I definitely wouldn't let just any Hollywierdo read that line:  a Linda Hamilton/Tom Hanks/Patrick Stewart character could pull it off.   From a Russell Crowe character - as one example - it would destroy the mood you appear to be trying to set.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 28, 2011, 12:48:00 PM

I definitely wouldn't let just any Hollywierdo read that line:  a Linda Hamilton/Tom Hanks/Patrick Stewart character could pull it off.   From a Russell Crowe character - as one example - it would destroy the mood you appear to be trying to set.

Oh HELL no (pardon the pun)...I'm just trying to conceive of a fate worse than that of hell itself...of a hatred so deep, it consigns the victim to a fantasy world where eternal, unimaginable pain isn't enough to satisfy the bloodlust of our protaganist.

As always, I'm logging to go one step further than is probably appropriate.  :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: IassaFTots on March 28, 2011, 12:58:14 PM
I like it.  It definitely sets a tone.  I haven't seen any of the Hellraiser stuff, but I was reminded of a scene in "What Dreams May Come" when I read it.  A lot of suffering.  LOTS of suffering. 
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: NHSparky on March 28, 2011, 01:45:44 PM
Start with the torture sequence in Tom Clancy's, Without Remorse, and go from there.  Also, some really good mind-****ing would be in order, just to make sure they NEVER heal.

True torture?  Make your victim BEG for death.  Truly desire it.  Then deny it.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 28, 2011, 01:55:10 PM

True torture?  Make your victim BEG for death.  Truly desire it.  Then deny it.

That's exactly the line I'm looking to cross...how can that can be portrayed on screen as a threat that people will feel viscerally?

That's what I'm trying to aim for here. Lot of ideas running through this head...just need to find a way to give voice to it.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DefiantSix on March 28, 2011, 02:07:00 PM
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_keWS1i3RA[/youtube]
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 28, 2011, 02:28:59 PM
I like to just blow shit up, and regard Schwarzeneger's "Solly, remember ven I said I vould kill you last?  I lied" as elegantly concise dialog, so take this with a grain of salt, but the last half of the first paragraph seems to get just a wee bit ponderous.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dutch508 on March 28, 2011, 02:32:20 PM
I like to just blow shit up, and regard Schwarzeneger's "Solly, remember ven I said I vould kill you last?  I lied" as elegantly concise dialog, so take this with a grain of salt, but the last half of the first paragraph seems to get just a wee bit ponderous.

good point. People don't in reality talk like that. They may think they do, but they don't. Maybe a Walter Mitty type dream sequence where the lead thinks these lines, but acts in a different manner? Not even sure how you would set that scene.

just a thought.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Airwolf on March 28, 2011, 03:34:04 PM
Oh HELL no (pardon the pun)...I'm just trying to conceive of a fate worse than that of hell itself...of a hatred so deep, it consigns the victim to a fantasy world where eternal, unimaginable pain isn't enough to satisfy the bloodlust of our protaganist.

As always, I'm logging to go one step further than is probably appropriate.  :-)

You mean like Democrats?
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: debk on March 28, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
Oh HELL no (pardon the pun)...I'm just trying to conceive of a fate worse than that of hell itself...of a hatred so deep, it consigns the victim to a fantasy world where eternal, unimaginable pain isn't enough to satisfy the bloodlust of our protaganist.

As always, I'm logging to go one step further than is probably appropriate.  :-)


Killing you would be easy. Letting you live, and relive, and relive what got you here...will be divine.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Wineslob on March 28, 2011, 04:24:02 PM
I like it.  It definitely sets a tone.  I haven't seen any of the Hellraiser stuff, but I was reminded of a scene in "What Dreams May Come" when I read it.  A lot of suffering.  LOTS of suffering. 


Hellraiser is/was one of the BEST horror movies ever made. To this day there is nothing like it, even with the cheap effects.







"and to think.............. I hesitated" *


*The Doctor from HR 2 who becomes a Cenobite.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 29, 2011, 08:32:50 AM


"and to think.............. I hesitated" *


*The Doctor from HR 2 who becomes a Cenobite.

That was, at the time, the CREEPIEST, SCARIEST and MOST DISTURBING scenes I had EVER seen!!!!

Clive Barker is one of the best horror writers to have ever lived. Almost on par with Lovecraft.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 29, 2011, 09:40:28 AM
That was, at the time, the CREEPIEST, SCARIEST and MOST DISTURBING scenes I had EVER seen!!!!

Clive Barker is one of the best horror writers to have ever lived. Almost on par with Lovecraft.

Meh, Barker was wordy and somewhat pretentious, almost as bad as Peter Straub but not quite.

Quote
I am going to kill you. I am going to end your life, but rather than allow you the privilege of haunting the normal, where you might find some small comfort in staying connected to the bliss you once knew, you shall haunt the insane, where the hell you are about to experience for eternity will seem orgasmic compared to the inhuman suffering you are now damned to dream of every night.

The unbearable pain of your reality will be your only relief from the unspeakable horrors you will experience in your sleep.

How about this:

Quote
No, I am not going to kill you.  I am going to curse you, damn you to an existence of eternal suffering.  I am going to cut you off from the light and love of the world, from your wealth and your power.  I am going to cast you into the dark where you shall live as those you have so callously treated, your mind a raging torrent of memories of what you no longer posses. 

You will be unloved, impotent, foul, and corrupt.  Pain, fear, betrayal, and hatred will be your constant companions. 

You will scream and cry for mercy but you shall find none; the only answer to your prayers will be laughter.

With these words I re-christen you "David", and you shall come to know me as "Nathan".

Whaddya think?  Too Jewish?

 :-)

Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 29, 2011, 09:44:53 AM
Quote
No, I am not going to kill you.  I am going to curse you, damn you to an existence of eternal suffering.  I am going to cut you off from the light and love of the world, from your wealth and your power.  I am going to cast you into the dark where you shall live as those you have so callously treated, your mind a raging torrent of memories of what you no longer posses.

You will be unloved, impotent, foul, and corrupt.  Pain, fear, betrayal, and hatred will be your constant companions.

You will scream and cry for mercy but you shall find none; the only answer to your prayers will be laughter.

With these words I re-christen you "David", and you shall come to know me as "Nathan".

Ok wasp....tell me the truth, now....where did that come from???? I don't think I've heard it before, but it's brilliant and seems kinda familiar somehow.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: thundley4 on March 29, 2011, 09:47:12 AM
Ok wasp....tell me the truth, now....where did that come from???? I don't think I've heard it before, but it's brilliant and seems kinda familiar somehow.

It almost sounds like the curse that has been visited upon the DUmmies of Skin's Island. It would explain their misery.  :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 29, 2011, 10:00:57 AM
Ok wasp....tell me the truth, now....where did that come from???? I don't think I've heard it before, but it's brilliant and seems kinda familiar somehow.

Straight outta my head, good sir.  When I read yours, it kind of made me think of the story of King David and Bathsheba.  Nathan was the prophet who delivered the Lord's message to the philandering king and his life became completely screwed.

You can read it here (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08b12.htm#1).

Personally, I could not think of any worse fate than to be cut off from the light and love of God and the twisting of my mind, body, and soul that would follow (ie turn into a howling liberal).  If I were to curse someone to an eternal damnation, it would look a lot like that and it felt like that was what you were going for.

I think up wordy shit like that all of the time.  It's one of my many useless talents that doesn't pay the bills.

And, for the record, you are free to use that however you may wish, sir, free of charge. 

Just don't forget me in the credits.   :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 29, 2011, 10:07:37 AM
Straight outta my head, good sir.  When I read yours, it kind of made me think of the story of King David and Bathsheba.  Nathan was the prophet who delivered the Lord's message to the philandering king and his life became completely screwed.

You can read it here (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08b12.htm#1).

Personally, I could not think of any worse fate than to be cut off from the light and love of God and the twisting of my mind, body, and soul that would follow (ie turn into a howling liberal).  If I were to curse someone to an eternal damnation, it would look a lot like that and it felt like that was what you were going for.

I think up wordy shit like that all of the time.  It's one of my many useless talents that doesn't pay the bills.

And, for the record, you are free to use that however you may wish, sir, free of charge. 

Just don't forget me in the credits.   :-)

Sir, I am utterly impressed. THAT'S good stuff, man - trying to imagine the worst possible fate your eternal soul would have to endure. At least physically, you know you will cease to feel pain at some point, but consider the form of eternal suffering that the pain receptors of your soul would be compelled to experience, and you can come up with all SORTS of notions that make our mortal coils twist in fear!  :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 29, 2011, 10:12:19 AM
Sir, I am utterly impressed. THAT'S good stuff, man - trying to imagine the worst possible fate your eternal soul would have to endure. At least physically, you know you will cease to feel pain at some point, but consider the form of eternal suffering that the pain receptors of your soul would be compelled to experience, and you can come up with all SORTS of notions that make our mortal coils twist in fear!  :-)

So am I to deduce that you liked it?   :-)

ETA:

Could you imagine a curse of suffering where you did not physically die?  To suffer physically, mentally, and spiritually for eternity?
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 29, 2011, 10:14:57 AM
So am I to deduce that you liked it?   :-)

 :cheersmate: :yahoo: :lol:
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 29, 2011, 10:15:47 AM
:cheersmate: :yahoo: :lol:

Would you like more?
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Eupher on March 29, 2011, 10:39:39 AM
Would you like more?

That's a freakin' loaded question, if ever I've seen one.  :bolt:
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 29, 2011, 11:02:56 AM
That's a freakin' loaded question, if ever I've seen one.  :bolt:

 :tongue:

 :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 29, 2011, 01:58:30 PM
The victor laid out his surgical instruments with the same degree of tidiness one would expect of an instructor or a student preapring to test. Not only were tools of the craft arranged by type, size and use but even the blades of the scapels and the curves of the hooks faced in uniform direction. The victor tapped in the air along the length of the tray to double and triple-check his work then satisfied he knitted his fingers together and then rested his hands between his legs as he swivled to his conquered victim.

The sight of the portly man, trussed-up as he was in the bedsheet, unable to move, held to the makeshift table was quite the spectacle. Even the face was tightly wrapped save for a pair of bewildered eyes that darted back and forth for clues about impending fate or an ever-dimming escape. It brought a smile to the victor's face.

"You've probably heard of sensory deprivation," the victor said smiling, giving the conquered a moment to focus his eyes where they were needed.

"Most people have dimly heard of it in some movie or a passing reference in the media or some such.

"It seems man is a sensory animal. A social animal. He has to have things to focus his attention. He has to have people to relate to. As much as some would argue the mind defines the reality the fact is the mind must be anchored in reality. It has to have input.

"In trying to figure out the extent of the mind's tether to reality much ink and many research dollars have been spilled. I mentioned sensory deprivation.

"Fascinating stuff that.

"It seems the researchers would take a subject and have them lie inside a tank. The tank was absolutely lightless and sound proof but they had more tricks than just that. They would use these sub-sonic emitters to deaden all sound to the point that even if the subject screamed he couldn't hear their own voice. And inside the tank they were lying in a pool of heavily salinated water so they floated, seemingly weightless but couldn't discern any sense of touch.

"The human mind, under these conditions, turns in on itself. The Russians--and we all know what tough sons-of-bitches they are--once put a KGB officer in one of these tanks and even though he had been training for the event he could only last 6 hours before he was reduced to a quivering, sobbing child.

"The Russians! Only 6 hours! Can you believe it?

"So that brings us to you."

The victor rose from his stool and hovered over the conquered. His voice softend to a whisper.

"First, I'm going to take out your eyes. Then I'm going to hollow out your ear canals so you can't even feel the vibrations of sound. Then I'm going to take your tongue."

The victor smiled as a tear beaded along the eye of the conquered.

"And then...

"...then I'm going to perform a procedure known as pithing. It's what they do to lab animals when they want the animal to be alive so they can inspect the organs while they still function but immobile and incapable of pain. I'm going to insert a blade into the base of your neck where it meets the skull and take away your ability to move and feel.

"Your darkness will be...

"...complete.

"But you are not going to die. Medical science, being the miracle that it is, will keep you alive for decades to come.

"Alive.

"Alone.

"In your complete darkness as your mind turns in on itself and I seriously doubt you're

"And when you finally do get to die. The 'one true judgment' perhaps?"

The victor renewed his smile.

"You know...Jesus, on the rare occassion He ever spoke of Hell, never spoke of fire and brimstone.

"He called it, 'The Outer Darkeness.' A place--a void--devoid of all aspects of reality as we know it. No light. No sound. No sensations whatsoever. It seems that those who reject the Creator are denied every facet of creation."

The bead had become a steady stream of tears on the conquered's face.

"Let's get to work, shall we?"
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 29, 2011, 04:03:29 PM
Actually MSB, someone I knew and had no reason to doubt once told me of something extremely similar, albeit in a much less clinical setting, happening to a captured double agent in a Southeast Asian country that will remain nameless.   
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 29, 2011, 04:06:42 PM
Actually MSB, someone I knew and had no reason to doubt once told me of something extremely similar, albeit in a much less clinical setting, happening to a captured double agent in a Southeast Asian country that will remain nameless.   
The sensory deprivation tank or the surgical imposition thereof?

I know such things have taken place; hence my use of the methodology. The best myths/fiction seize upon grains of fact to help the audience cross the gulf of disbelief.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 30, 2011, 08:39:21 AM
The permanent kind.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Eupher on March 30, 2011, 09:12:23 AM
The permanent kind.

Lead usually makes things permanent.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on March 30, 2011, 11:20:42 AM
Bullets weren't involved.  Just things that cut or pierced.  I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on March 30, 2011, 11:43:49 AM
Lead usually makes things permanent.
So shallow.

So banal.

For some death is an escape from what they truly deserve.

For some death has to be earned...

...by many, many nights of begging.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Eupher on March 30, 2011, 12:27:44 PM
So shallow.

So banal.

For some death is an escape from what they truly deserve.

For some death has to be earned...

...by many, many nights of begging.

You're still trying to re-write HNC's script.

I ain't.  :-)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: AllosaursRus on March 30, 2011, 12:40:52 PM
Not bad at all.  

I definitely wouldn't let just any Hollywierdo read that line:  a Linda Hamilton/Tom Hanks/Patrick Stewart character could pull it off.   From a Russell Crowe character - as one example - it would destroy the mood you appear to be trying to set.

Yep! Depends on who's sayin' it. Pretty highbrow for most Hollywierd actors these days.

Good none the less! Keep up the good work HollyCon! Just need the right voice behind it.

Eta:

My vote is for an Anthony Hopkins type.
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 31, 2011, 07:12:01 AM

My vote is for an Anthony Hopkins type.

I love Sir Anthony, but I was thinking more along the lines of a Michael Gambon or Tom Wilkinson.

Thanks all of your for chipping in with your advice and thoughts!  :cheersmate:
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: dandi on March 31, 2011, 09:48:31 AM
I love Sir Anthony, but I was thinking more along the lines of a Michael Gambon or Tom Wilkinson.

Meh, smooth talking British bad guys are too predictable.

Good known bad guys for what you are driving at would be Willem Dafoe or maybe Christopher Walken.  If you were looking for an unexpected type who could deliver a range of evil dead pan, laughing sociopath, and raving demon, I can suggest two:

Lemmy

(http://thedarkstyle.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/lemmy.jpg)

Blackie Lawless

(http://www.sleazeroxx.com/interviews/blackielawless4.jpg)
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: IassaFTots on March 31, 2011, 10:05:50 AM
Meh, smooth talking British bad guys are too predictable.

Good known bad guys for what you are driving at would be Willem Dafoe or maybe Christopher Walken.  If you were looking for an unexpected type who could deliver a range of evil dead pan, laughing sociopath, and raving demon, I can suggest two:

Lemmy

(http://thedarkstyle.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/lemmy.jpg)

Blackie Lawless

(http://www.sleazeroxx.com/interviews/blackielawless4.jpg)


LEMMY!!!!!!    :cheersmate:
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: Ree on March 31, 2011, 10:24:04 AM
I'm working on a scene, and I would be very grateful for your opinions on whether or not this would rank among one of the most beautiful, elegantly dreadful and effective final statements ever concocted.

I'm hesitant to give you any clue as to story context, because I want it to seem as credible coming from a normal (albeit sociopathic) human being, as it would an immortal demon.

Thanks so much for whatever "notes" you could give me.  :-)

PS - Please feel free to submit your re-writes.
He says he's gonna kill him, then says he's doomed to haunt the insane, is this killer like god or somethin? Coz how can  he be sure what happen to the killed one  after he's dead?
Now maybe I'm missin somethin  Coz I get if a demon said it, it might work, but a sociopath just makes him look crazier . But I don't watch  horror movies or read tat kind of  book   
Title: Re: I need your opinion, if you would be so kind...
Post by: The Hollywood NeoCon on March 31, 2011, 01:33:01 PM

LEMMY!!!!!!    :cheersmate:

Believe me, if I could thought we could keep Lemmy sober and coherent enough to do the role, I'd have cast that insane mofo in a second.  :-)