The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: namvet on March 19, 2011, 04:27:08 PM
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why in the holy hell do we need to get involed here ??? the tomahawks fly. Osama is biting off more than we can chew. be interesting to see how the libtards react
The U.S. Navy fires the first U.S. Tomahawk cruise missiles against Libyan leader's Muammar al-Qaddafi's air defenses Saturday.
The Pentagon says 112 missiles have been launched from U.S. and British ships in the Mediterranean, hitting 20 Libyan targets.
fox
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/#
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Are we at war with Libya now? Sorry for sounding so ignorant on the subject, but this isn't a story I've been following closely.
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Are we at war with Libya now? Sorry for sounding so ignorant on the subject, but this isn't a story I've been following closely.
By definition no. As far as I know, Congress hasn't declared war, and there's no way this president is gonna ask for a declaration. But in reality and semantics aside, yes. What we have here is Kosovo II. This time its in Africa.
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Are we at war with Libya now? Sorry for sounding so ignorant on the subject, but this isn't a story I've been following closely.
not yet. but we are now a part of the no fly committee. if they shoot down our planes and kill our flyers Osama will be way in over his head
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not yet. but we are now a part of the no fly committee. if they shoot down our planes and kill our flyers Osama will be way in over his head
I'm not comfortable with any of this.
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We didn't declare war with Afghanistan or Iraq, either, but our military has been given authorization for Use of Force.
"From the Washington Administration to the present, Congress and the President have
enacted 11 separate formal declarations of war against foreign nations in five different wars.
Each declaration has been preceded by a presidential request either in writing or in person
before a joint session of Congress. The reasons cited in justification for the requests have
included armed attacks on United States territory or its citizens and threats to United States
rights or interests as a sovereign nation.
Congress and the President have also on a number of occasions enacted authorizations
for the use of force instead of declarations of war. Most commonly, such measures have
authorized the use of force against either a named country or unnamed hostile nations in a
given region. In most cases, the President has requested the authority, but Congress has
sometimes given the President less than what he asked for. In contrast to the declarations of
war, not all authorizations for the use of force have resulted in actual combat. Both
declarations and authorizations require the signature of the President in order to become law."
Source (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL31133.pdf)
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I'm not comfortable with any of this.
nor am I. we don't even have a CNC !!!!
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Osama is biting off more than we can chew.
By bombing Libya? How so.
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By bombing Libya? How so.
by putting our people needlessly in harms way and risking a war. a war our economy cannot and will not support. AND an alleged prez with no foreign policy experience...........etc
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So ... where are all the thousands of filthy hippies gathering to scream "NO WAR" and "BUSH = SATAN" .
Oh. That's right. It's no longer one of their ideological enemies in power so they support anything he does blindly.
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Good afternoon, everybody. Today I authorized the Armed Forces of the United States to begin a limited military action in Libya in support of an international effort to protect Libyan civilians. That action has now begun.
In this effort, the United States is acting with a broad coalition that is committed to enforcing United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973, which calls for the protection of the Libyan people. That coalition met in Paris today to send a unified message, and it brings together many of our European and Arab partners.
Enforcing UN resolutions under the messiah = all good
Enforcing UN resolutions under GWB = war crimes
:yawn:
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by putting our people needlessly in harms way and risking a war. a war our economy cannot and will not support. AND an alleged prez with no foreign policy experience...........etc
Our people are not in harms way, and we are talking Tomahawk cruise missiles, no one is getting deployment orders.
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France is enforcing the no-fly zone, and the messiah has stated international forces are leading this endeavor.
Now if you want to argue U.S. military taking direction from foreign military leaders, then that would be a valid argument. Obama isn't leading anything outside his foursome at his next golf outing.
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Actually Obama did what GWB should have done, and that is not getting the mother-may-I from Congress to enforce a UN resolution.
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Our people are not in harms way, and we are talking Tomahawk cruise missiles, no one is getting deployment orders.
and the carrier TF ??? just there for the sun tan right???
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Quotable notables from the Obama crowd :
"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy," President Obama said in a statement from Brazil.
"We have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Qaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities," Clinton said.
Source (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/#ixzz1H5PU8R9l)
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and the carrier TF ??? just there for the sun tan right???
Lol, as luck would have it they just happen to be in the neighborhood, and are in no danger. :-)
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Lol, as luck would have it they just happen to be in the neighborhood, and are in no danger. :-)
famous last words
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famous last words
What do you think is going to happen to them?
Note: The US and UK have about 25 vessels in that area, with France enforcing a no-fly zone.
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What do you think is going to happen to them?
Note: The US and UK have about 25 vessels in that area, with France enforcing a no-fly zone.
as luck would have it they just happen to be in the neighborhood, and are in no danger.
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The Cost of a No-Fly Zone
"Full No-Fly Zone" covering all of Libya
- $100 million to $300 million per week
- Initial strike to secure airspace: $500 million and $1 billion
- Six month total: $3.1 billion - $8.8 billion
- Similar to no-fly zone imposed over Iraq (Operation Northern and Southern Watch)
Limited No-Fly Zone focusing on the northern third of Libya
- $30 million to $100 million per week
- Initial strike to secure airspace: $400 million to $800 million
- Six month total $1.18 billion - $3.4 billion
Stand-off No-Fly Zone focusing on costal Libya with only air and naval assets beyond Libyan territory
- $15 million to $25 million per week
- Because this is strictly a stand-off operation with no assets in Libya, CSBA suggests no "initial cost."
- Six month total $0.39 billion - $0.65 billion
- This No-Fly zone would be enforced by three aegis-equipped destroyers.
- These ships, supported by radar monitoring planes (AWACS), and land-based fighter aircraft would intercept violating aircraft from a distance with "over-the-horizon" missiles.
- There is no historical precedent for this sort of no-fly zone.
The group also estimates a 6 month No-Fly Zone could cost as much as $9 Billion. Here's a look at the costs of previous No-Fly Zones:
3 months of air superiority over Serbia cost $2.4 billion
No Fly Zone over Iraq cost $1.3 billion per year
Libya is 6.5 times larger than the No Fly Zone over Iraq.
CSBA (Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments) estimates a 6 month No Fly Zone could cost as much as $9 billion.
well taxpayers can we foot the bill????
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/18/libya-cost-no-fly-zone#
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as luck would have it they just happen to be in the neighborhood, and are in no danger.
Exactly. Are you anti-war?
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The Cost of a No-Fly Zone
"Full No-Fly Zone" covering all of Libya
- $100 million to $300 million per week
- Initial strike to secure airspace: $500 million and $1 billion
- Six month total: $3.1 billion - $8.8 billion
- Similar to no-fly zone imposed over Iraq (Operation Northern and Southern Watch)
Limited No-Fly Zone focusing on the northern third of Libya
- $30 million to $100 million per week
- Initial strike to secure airspace: $400 million to $800 million
- Six month total $1.18 billion - $3.4 billion
Stand-off No-Fly Zone focusing on costal Libya with only air and naval assets beyond Libyan territory
- $15 million to $25 million per week
- Because this is strictly a stand-off operation with no assets in Libya, CSBA suggests no "initial cost."
- Six month total $0.39 billion - $0.65 billion
- This No-Fly zone would be enforced by three aegis-equipped destroyers.
- These ships, supported by radar monitoring planes (AWACS), and land-based fighter aircraft would intercept violating aircraft from a distance with "over-the-horizon" missiles.
- There is no historical precedent for this sort of no-fly zone.
The group also estimates a 6 month No-Fly Zone could cost as much as $9 Billion. Here's a look at the costs of previous No-Fly Zones:
3 months of air superiority over Serbia cost $2.4 billion
No Fly Zone over Iraq cost $1.3 billion per year
Libya is 6.5 times larger than the No Fly Zone over Iraq.
CSBA (Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments) estimates a 6 month No Fly Zone could cost as much as $9 billion.
well taxpayers can we foot the bill????
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/03/18/libya-cost-no-fly-zone#
Sucks to be France right about now.
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Quotable notables from the Obama crowd :
"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy," President Obama said in a statement from Brazil.
"We have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Qaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities," Clinton said.
Source (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/#ixzz1H5PU8R9l)
They will never admit to the hypocrisy.
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Exactly. Are you anti-war?
my war's over
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Sucks to be France right about now.
do they??? those are US dollar amounts
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Supposedly, there is talk of using the F-22s against the Libyans.
And the Tomahawks--they are being used for air defense suppression. 112 of them--and according to the USN VADM conducting the Pentagon briefing, they were fired from both USN and British Navy ships and subs, with a mix of "older and newer models." Figure that it's probably cheaper to fire an older model rather than get it overhauled to bring it up to today's standards.
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do they??? those are US dollar amounts
That's if the US is enforcing the no-fly zone. They are not.
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my war's over
That's a non-answer.
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Supposedly, there is talk of using the F-22s against the Libyans.
And the Tomahawks--they are being used for air defense suppression. 112 of them--and according to the USN VADM conducting the Pentagon briefing, they were fired from both USN and British Navy ships and subs, with a mix of "older and newer models." Figure that it's probably cheaper to fire an older model rather than get it overhauled to bring it up to today's standards.
so far none of our aircraft are involved that ive heard of. real concern here is the mobile launchers. he can roll those up to the coastline and fire at those ships off the coast. and Osama's response ??? stay or birds away ???
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(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-03/60261706.jpg)
Oh my.
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(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-03/60261706.jpg)
Oh my.
Why are her eyes bulging so? It looks like she's either on speed or someone just shoved a snowcone up her ass.
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Why the hell are they wasting time with a no-fly zone. The goal of that is to allow the the rebel forces to capture/kill/depose Gadaffi. Why not just locate his ass and take him out.
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Why the hell are they wasting time with a no-fly zone. The goal of that is to allow the the rebel forces to capture/kill/depose Gadaffi. Why not just locate his ass and take him out.
The dems don't really like the idea of taking out bad people unless it's for wine and dancing.
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The dems don't really like the idea of taking out bad people unless it's for wine and dancing.
and campaign contributions.....
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I'm not comfortable with any of this.
Neither am I. Kadaffi has murdered 163 Americans and should die, but the government is jumping into Libya's civil war blindly. The rebels could very well be Muslim Brotherhood or Iran backed, and intending to set up a theocracy.
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Neither am I. Kadaffi has murdered 163 Americans and should die, but the government is jumping into Libya's civil war blindly. The rebels could very well be Muslim Brotherhood or Iran backed, and intending to set up a theocracy.
that was my biggest worry. not only here but in Egypt. more little Bin Laden's ????
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I wouldn't go quite that far. We've had a policy of not killing foreign leaders since the 70's, and that policy still applies as long as we're not actively engaged in declared hostilities with them, like we are/were with the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
As far as the CVBG, they were already there as part of a normal deployment. Ships belong at sea, period. The only difference is in the expended ordnance, nothing more. And if Qaddafi decides he wants to try to tangle with the US Navy again, well, I guess he didn't learn his lesson the first couple of times.
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From what I understand the cruise missiles were supposed to knock out their air defenses so that the Brits, French and Canadians could enforce the no fly zone with their F-16s. If they had the US F-22 that would not have been so critical. What happens if all the antiaircraft sites have not been destroyed. I look for the French to turn tail and run if their planes get shot down. Who is going to be coordinating this operation. Looks like Obama has washed his hands after the missile strike. I sure hope so. We do not be dragged into this. Plus, our national interest are not comprised one iota if Qaddafi stays in power. Let the sand monkeys kill each other.
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Wouldn't it be ironic if OblaBla does the job Reagan should have finished in '86?
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Wouldn't it be ironic if OblaBla does the job Reagan should have finished in '86?
First off, dumbass, what job should Reagan have finished? He did what needed to be done--no more, no less. Second, Obama can TRY to take credit for it if in fact Qaddafi leaves, but virtually NOBODY is going to see through that bullshit.
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Hey MORON, don't you jackass me. Reagan should have put a missile up Quaddaffy's ass in '86 and GHWB should have put a bullet in Husseins head during GW1. Screw the the pissants at the UN and their half assed mandates.
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Hey MORON, don't you jackass me. Reagan should have put a missile up Quaddaffy's ass in '86 and GHWB should have put a bullet in Husseins head during GW1. Screw the the pissants at the UN and their half assed mandates.
Hmmmm...let's see--were you on AD back in 1986? No? Oh wait--I WAS. I also remember very clearly the events leading up to the attack on Tripoli back then. To remove him for a nightclub attack would have been just a bit unjustified.
And no, GHWB didn't have the mandate to take out Hussein in GW1 either, despite everyone and his sister knowing full well that we'd have to go back there eventually--and some did.
It's called "playing by the rules", JACKASS. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
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HEMMMMMMMMMMM
I can not think of a better way to dispose of all those missiles as they approach their[ use by date]. We must have a few hundred warehouses full of these baby's, enough to lend them to the Brits when they run low.
Time to squash that little bully boy and make him cry Uncle.
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Well, Gadhafi sure knows the all the key words to enflame the hoards. Now this is a "crusade". :whatever:
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I'm seeing reports that three B-2s were used in an attack on airfields.
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Where are all the liberals shouting about "no declaration of war" like they did with Bush?
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Exactly. Are you anti-war?
No combat veteran that I know is pro-war. Anyone that has ever been in combat hopes to never have to do it again... barring a few psychopaths I suppose.
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No combat veteran that I know is pro-war. Anyone that has ever been in combat hopes to never have to do it again... barring a few psychopaths I suppose.
Not exactly my question. Most combat veterans I know understand war is a necessary evil and will go when their shoulder is tapped.
The anti-war John Kerry crowd is divorced from reality.
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I'm seeing reports that three B-2s were used in an attack on airfields.
Good. They should bomb the sh^t of out them and call it a day.
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Hmmmm...let's see--were you on AD back in 1986? No? Oh wait--I WAS. I also remember very clearly the events leading up to the attack on Tripoli back then. To remove him for a nightclub attack would have been just a bit unjustified.
And no, GHWB didn't have the mandate to take out Hussein in GW1 either, despite everyone and his sister knowing full well that we'd have to go back there eventually--and some did.
It's called "playing by the rules", JACKASS. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
Clinton should have taken Bin Laden out.
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Clinton should have taken Bin Laden out.
Clinton didn't have the balls , the authority or the "moral clarity".
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birds in the air
Four American B2 bombers dropped 16 bombs each, striking Libyan air bases and aircraft, mobile air defense units and some ground forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, a senior U.S. military official told ABC News.
"The assessment is still ongoing, but all indications are that B2s were effective against the targets they struck," the official said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/libya-us-bombers-pound-libyan-targets-gadhafi-defiant/story?id=13178174
I wonder if the Code Pink crowd and the other peacenickes will take to the street, and protext outside the WH?
Will the NY Times and Washington Post write op-eds about a war over oil?
Will we the the Cindy Sheehan's of the world get endless coverage about the warmongering President?
Probably not
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HEMMMMMMMMMMM
I can not think of a better way to dispose of all those missiles as they approach their[ use by date]. We must have a few hundred warehouses full of these baby's, enough to lend them to the Brits when they run low.
Time to squash that little bully boy and make him cry Uncle.
Few hundred WAREHOUSES? Nice try, but once again, Vesta, you talk out your ass.
According to FAS.org, about 2500 Block III and IV missiles existed (and about 1000 used since 1995), with plans for a total production run of about 3400.
ETA: Cause I can't spell this morning.
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Clinton should have taken Bin Laden out.
Bit of a difference between Hussein, Qaddafi, and Bin Laden. Yes, I agree that Clinton should have taken care of Bin Laden when the Sudan offered him on a silver platter in 1996, but I also agree that simply putting a bullet through his brain might SOUND easy, but in fact it's anything but, unintended consequences included. However, as he is NOT the leader of a sovereign state, the elimination versus international proceedings is a bit simpler, but not a whole lot.
I just have a bit of a hard spot with the, "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" types--they're not exactly thinking things through, if you catch my drift.
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Bit of a difference between Hussein, Qaddafi, and Bin Laden. Yes, I agree that Clinton should have taken care of Bin Laden when the Sudan offered him on a silver platter in 1996, but I also agree that simply putting a bullet through his brain might SOUND easy, but in fact it's anything but, unintended consequences included. However, as he is NOT the leader of a sovereign state, the elimination versus international proceedings is a bit simpler, but not a whole lot.
I just have a bit of a hard spot with the, "Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" types--they're not exactly thinking things through, if you catch my drift.
Clinton was advised to leave bin laden alone. to much risk of an attack on the US
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Clinton was advised to leave bin laden alone. to much risk of an attack on the US
By whom? Sandy Burglar?
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Just heard blurb on news about how now the Arab League is criticizing efforts, saying they've, "Gone too far."
WTF? Weren't these the same people who were all hot and bothered about getting this going in the first place?
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
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Just heard blurb on news about how now the Arab League is criticizing efforts, saying they've, "Gone too far."
WTF? Weren't these the same people who were all hot and bothered about getting this going in the first place?
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Let's see, we are going into Libya to save civilians from a murdering dictator under the guise of the un. We have launched attacks against the anti aircraft batteries and command and control structures. There will naturally be collateral damage and casualties. When will the screams about murdering innocents start?
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Let's see, we are going into Libya to save civilians from a murdering dictator under the guise of the un. We have launched attacks against the anti aircraft batteries and command and control structures. There will naturally be collateral damage and casualties. When will the screams about murdering innocents start?
Been watching FNC this morning. They already have in some circles. Were it not for Lord Zero in charge (ha!) we'd be hearing about it already on the Op-Ed page of the NY Times.
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By whom? Sandy Burglar?
that's him. the one that got off scott free for stealing class docs
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Been watching FNC this morning. They already have in some circles. Were it not for Lord Zero in charge (ha!) we'd be hearing about it already on the Op-Ed page of the NY Times.
terrorists should be cranking up Pallywood and Fauxtography any time now to hand over to Reuters for world distribution
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Quotable notables from the Obama crowd :
"We cannot stand idly by when a tyrant tells his people there will be no mercy," President Obama said in a statement from Brazil.
"We have every reason to fear that left unchecked, Qaddafi will commit unspeakable atrocities," Clinton said.
Source (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/19/france-fires-libyan-military-vehicle/#ixzz1H5PU8R9l)
This apparently matters a whole lot more to us when the people involved are Muslims who either own some oil or have some buddies who own some oil, but not nearly so much when the people involved are of Asian, African or South American descent, or Christians.
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strike photos
http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/world/2011/03/19/military-airstrikes-carried-qaddafi-forces/#slide=1
(http://a57.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/legacy/2010/09/660/440/Libya4_3-20.jpg)
look familar???
(http://a57.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/World/660/429/031911_libya3.jpg)
is it real or Pallywood???
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MI6 puts gun to generals' heads: Our spies phone Gaddafi's men direct to warn: Defect or die
British intelligence is warning Colonel Gaddafi’s generals that it could be fatal to remain loyal to the Libyan leader.
MI6 spies and military officials are contacting commanders in Tripoli trying to persuade them to defect, the Daily Mail can reveal.
Their message is blunt: ‘General, we’ve got the GPS co-ordinates of your command post. They are programmed into a Storm Shadow missile. What do you want to do?’
As Gaddafi vowed to wage a long war with the ‘crusader alliance’, British officials said the intelligence services had the telephone numbers of many key military officials in his regime.
A senior source said: ‘They will be doing their best to get in touch. This is a situation where success breeds success. Once you get air superiority it becomes suicidal for Libyan army commanders to want to move tanks or to use artillery.
Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1368264/MI6-puts-gun-Libyan-Generals-Heads-say-defect-die.html#ixzz1HCPoxC6e)
Lesson #1: Don't use your cell phone.
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one of my ISP's main page posted this:
Robert Gates: Libya Mission Handoff In Days, U.S. Will Not Have 'Preeminent Role' - from Huff post
ON BOARD A MILITARY AIRCRAFT (AP) -- U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday that the U.S. expects to turn control of the Libya military mission over to a coalition -- probably headed either by the French and British or by NATO -- "in a matter of days."
In his first public remarks since the start of the bombings, Gates said President Barack Obama felt very strongly about limiting America's role in the operation, adding that the president is "more aware than almost anybody of the stress on the military."
"We agreed to use our unique capabilities and the breadth of those capabilities at the front of this process, and then we expected in a matter of days to be able to turn over the primary responsibility to others," Gates told reporters traveling with him to Russia. "We will continue to support the coalition, we will be a member of the coalition, we will have a military role in the coalition, but we will not have the preeminent role."
<SNIP>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/20/robert-gates-libya-mission_n_838183.html
maybe someone is coming to their senses
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN59KMwM6p8
"I've met the man twice and I've recommended a pre-emptive Exocet missile strike against his air force..."
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Why the hell are they wasting time with a no-fly zone. The goal of that is to allow the the rebel forces to capture/kill/depose Gadaffi. Why not just locate his ass and take him out.
The rebels want to kick his ass personally, the UNSC actions are just giving them a hand.
And there's no way of telling whether the rebels will for a democracy. Only time will tell.
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Where are all the liberals shouting about "no declaration of war" like they did with Bush?
We've only declared war for five wars. The last time was World War II. The rest are military engagments authorized by congress or by the UNSC then funded by congress.
"On at least 125 such occasions, the President acted without prior express authorization from Congress"
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I know you guys tend to not like Al Jazeera, I think they cover the Middle East stuff a little better than stations do in the US. Particularly because they tend to have better footage.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/2011320202616794816.html
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Just heard blurb on news about how now the Arab League is criticizing efforts, saying they've, "Gone too far."
WTF? Weren't these the same people who were all hot and bothered about getting this going in the first place?
Damned if we do, damned if we don't.
...and history is about to be rewritten. Hey, cowards always do this. The Dims did this not long after we went into Iraq. You know, those same Dims that SUPPORTED the invasion in the first place. They're not the linebackers you want if you're playing against the Ravens. They'd bolt to the sidelines as soon as the ball is hiked and you're staring at Ray Lewis.
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^ Don't forget Suggs. :-)
Oh, and I'm also confused. The British or French (mind's foggy at the moment" already blasted a few holes in Quadaffi's compound. Why not just finish it off? The man is a shining example of everything that is wrong with the country of Libya, and the Mid East, for that matter. One more dead nutball should be no skin off the nose of planet Earth.
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LIBYA: WEBSITE, GADDAFI'S SON KILLED BY A SUICIDE-BOMBER
(AGI) Tripoli - Khamis, Gaddafi's sixth son, was reportedly killed by the injuries suffered in a suicide bombing on Saturday. A Libyan pilot deliberately crashed his jet against the Bab al-Azizia barracks.
http://www.agi.it/english-version/world/elenco-notizie/201103211039-cro-ren1026-libya_website_gaddafi_s_son_killed_by_a_suicide_bomber
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I'd like to know exactly WHY we are involved in Libya. Their problems posed no threat to the United States in any possible way. Let that side of the world handle up on their own problems.
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I'd like to know exactly WHY we are involved in Libya. Their problems posed no threat to the United States in any possible way. Let that side of the world handle up on their own problems.
The only concern about Libya is their oil. That is possibly the only effect on the US. Surely Obama doesn't believe in War For Oil?
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The only concern about Libya is their oil. That is possibly the only effect on the US. Surely Obama doesn't believe in War For Oil?
That's the only conclusion I can reach. I expect the anti-war-for-oil crowd to start marching any minute now. Yep, annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny minute.... :whatever:
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Crickets at the DUmp thus far...
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Crickets at the DUmp thus far...
No. That would be impossible. To them Bush was a war criminal for similar actions. They MUST be against this!
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No. That would be impossible. To them Bush was a war criminal for similar actions. They MUST be against this!
Well....Name Removed might have spoken up. I can go check for you. :-)
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I'd like to know exactly WHY we are involved in Libya. Their problems posed no threat to the United States in any possible way. Let that side of the world handle up on their own problems.
I got to honestly say I'm ambivalent. I see absolutely no immediate interest for the US in this fight and our CinC makes me loathe to arrest jaywalkers let alone confront a (semi-)modern military.
I suppose an argument could be made that by supporting the rebels then going home counters the "imperialism" charge so often leveled at our more genuine efforts, i.e. A-stan and Iraq.
However, unless we have a follow-on game to midwife whatever government replaces Khadaffi obviously one thugocracy will replace another and we could have a real genuine threat to the US emerge just as the generic mujahadeen gave way to the AQ supporting Taliban. (Not that you don't already know all this, I'm just being complete for the sake of discussion.)
Even then this "adventure" will pay dividends. If we do properly groom Khadaffi's replacement (hard to imagine with an absentee landlord) so much the better but even in A-stan it was hard to call it an imperialist effort after the fact we ended our involvements in A-stan as soon as the Soviets pulled-out. It was the one argument the left couldn't get to take root in the public mind. Note how much more success they had with that angle vis-a-vis Iraq.
Still, the fact remains the population in Libyan is in thralldom to a moribund civilization that transcends national borders. Until *that* is dealt with the whole damn placed is screwed beyond repair. At best we can hope to infect them with the same cultural institutions bequeathed to us by the Judeo-christian ethicists.
That being the case, any influence we exert is positive. We aren't taking out a dictator, we are laying in-roads to overturn one of the worst plagues of human history. The goal is abstract and the fight is long. The general to receive the final surrender has not been born yet.
Given Sarkozy and Cameron's recent comments on the failures of multi-culturalism I believe these thoughts are at the back of their considerations.
Would that we had a capable and interested leader at this junction and whatever Obama brings to the fight he brings at the nagging of his betters.
But does Libya pose an immediate threat or have they rendered us some recent insult? No.
We must play this for a much bigger purpose despite the leadership left us by those more interested in liberal fantasies and racial guilt.
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Bunny, I see what you're saying, but what impact are we going to have on any future regimes there without a single boot on the ground?
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However, unless we have a follow-on game to midwife whatever government replaces Khadaffi obviously one thugocracy will replace another and we could have a real genuine threat to the US emerge just as the generic mujahadeen gave way to the AQ supporting Taliban. (Not that you don't already know all this, I'm just being complete for the sake of discussion.)
I have absolutely zero confidence that whatever replaces Moe the Q will be any better, and there is actually a pretty fair chance it'll be worse.
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Bunny, I see what you're saying, but what impact are we going to have on any future regimes there without a single boot on the ground?
You don't need boots on the ground for that. You can delegitamize any subsequent regime that pops-up if it lacks our approval.
Of course that would require an engaged and capable leader...
:banghead:
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I have absolutely zero confidence that whatever replaces Moe the Q will be any better, and there is actually a pretty fair chance it'll be worse.
Like Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, et al, if the last 50 years are any indication.
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I have absolutely zero confidence that whatever replaces Moe the Q will be any better, and there is actually a pretty fair chance it'll be worse.
That's why this war sets the narrative groundwork for the next war against Q'Daffy's replacement.
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report: daffy duck using Journalists as Human Shields
British sources confirmed that seven Storm Shadow missiles were ready to be fired from a British aircraft, but the strikes had to be curtailed due to crews from CNN, Reuters and other organizations nearby. Officials from Libya's Ministry of Information brought those journalists to the area to show them damage from the initial attack and to effectively use them as human shields.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/21/exclusive-libyans-use-journalists-human-shields/#
****er's teetering on the brink
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report: daffy duck using Journalists as Human Shields
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/21/exclusive-libyans-use-journalists-human-shields/#
****er's teetering on the brink
Actually I'm surprised he hasn't just duct-taped 20 or 30 kids and grannies to each of his remaining tanks at this point.
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Actually I'm surprised he hasn't just duct-taped 20 or 30 kids and grannies to each of his remaining tanks at this point.
guy's crazier than a shit house rat !!!!
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Actually I'm surprised he hasn't just duct-taped 20 or 30 kids and grannies to each of his remaining tanks at this point.
Operation Human Shield (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m6jz_southparkoperationhumanshield_fun)
For that you owe Trey Parker and Matt Stone a quarter
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Operation Human Shield (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m6jz_southparkoperationhumanshield_fun)
For that you owe Trey Parker and Matt Stone a quarter
There are plenty of real examples of exactly what I wrote, my friend, believe me, most recently in the Yugoslavian bloodbath, though PWs are the most common victims of this practice.
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There are plenty of real examples of exactly what I wrote, my friend, believe me, most recently in the Yugoslavian bloodbath, though PWs are the most common victims of this practice.
Unfortunately, you are exactly right. But when you talked about duct taping people to tanks, I couldn't resist posting a link to that video.
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Unfortunately, you are exactly right. But when you talked about duct taping people to tanks, I couldn't resist posting a link to that video.
Poor Chef.