The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Ballygrl on March 07, 2011, 06:55:47 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x579604
NYT: White House Says Tribunals Can Resume at Guantánamo
Posted by varkam on Mon Mar-07-11 03:48 PM
Deleted sub-thread
Posted by Name removed on Mon Mar-07-11 04:26 PM
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
Obama also issued an executive order...to continue to hold detainees who have been neither charged.
Posted by Bluebear on Mon Mar-07-11 03:50 PM
My hero.
This guy just does NOT have a clue as to how to get voters to show
Posted by Rex on Mon Mar-07-11 03:51 PM
up in 2012. Shit.
I must be fringe for being against this
Posted by JonLP24 on Mon Mar-07-11 03:53 PM
If you're going to be a jerk, I don't see a reason to keep talking to you.
Posted by varkam on Mon Mar-07-11 06:30 PM
Are you going to play nice, or should I go ahead and ignore you from here on out? I'd be fine either way, as I do have other things to get done today.
At any rate, I asked you to explain how the President ceases to be CIC when the jurisdiction that we're talking about is an American military base. I kind of feel like the burden of proof is on you on that one, since he's CIC at any other place, at any other time.
France. Canada. Australia. Great Britain. There you go. I named four, for the price of one!
Honestly, I can't explain the nuts and bolts of how it would work -- and maybe it wouldn't through executive order. The judiciary has, however, been giving the executive greater authority in the war on terror in how it chooses to prosecute -- it wouldn't be crazy to try to carve out a special tribunal to deal with gitmo. It may require some politicking, but it strikes me as a compromise between trying them in civilian courts and trying them under the UCMJ. The administration, however, has shown zero interest in trying something like this.
And I may be advocating for the establishment of a court that would follow the FRCP and FRE, but the key about article three courts is jurisdiction. A tribunal, unlike an article three court is not a court of general jurisdiction. These tribunals aren't competent to hear suits at common law or suits litigating constitutionality, or habeas petitions.
You say I keep ignoring the MCA of 2006, but this is the first time that you've brought it up (much like the NDA below). The MCA authorizes the establishment of a certain type of tribunal, but it's statutory language doesn't appear to limit the creation of further tribunals.
eta: After reading your comment below, I've decided to discontinue our exchange. Have a nice night.
Well, name-calling when on the losing end of an argument certainly bolsters your assertions. Again,
Posted by msanthrope on Mon Mar-07-11 06:53 PM
you haven't cited a single fact to support your assertions.
1) You haven't explained how being CIC allows Obama to override the laws of Congress. Kindly cite a SINGLE case or law that allows the CIC to ignore the laws of Congress, by virtue of being the CIC. Read the Youngstown decision, for starters.
2) Right. Do you have any evidence that the countries you named want the remaining Gitmo detainees?
3) If you can't explain the nuts and bolts, then maybe you should try listening to the people who can.
4) Again, you still haven't explained what you want. Nor, the authority under which you expect such a court to be established.
5) I assumed you knew the names of the laws you are advocating Mr. Obama ignore.
I don't think you are a jerk, but I think you woefully ignorant of basic separation of powers.
Tribunals - great way to scapegoat the innocent .
Posted by nosmokes on Mon Mar-07-11 04:08 PM
Change you can GOP in!
This is so ****ing absurd it hurts.
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In other words the Bush Administration confronted with a new set of circumstances came up with the best possible way to deal with the terrorist situation reality has dealt to us.
There are enough adults still in the workings of government to take the immature leftist idealism of candidate O and throw it in the garbage.
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Notice how the only successes that Obama has are all of Bush's that he is claiming as his own?
You might be an affirmative action president if you blame all your failures on others, take credit for others successful work, and yell RACIST when called on it.
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This is what happens when reality smacks into naive ideology and runs right over it, DUmmies.
Cindie