The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on February 16, 2011, 03:49:06 PM
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howard112211 (965 posts) Wed Feb-16-11 08:08 PM
Original message
It just occurred to me that one never hears that much about nuclear energy from the american left.
Edited on Wed Feb-16-11 08:09 PM by howard112211
Just an observation. I'm not exactly a nuclear energy opponent, at least certainly not in the sense of wanting it replaced by fossil energy, but I wonder why this is much more an issue in Europe. I mean, let's take DU as an example. Issues such as labor, economy, civil right etc. are discussed frequently, but I don't remember ever seeing a lot of nuclear energy threads, at least not in GD. In Europe, it seems like this is always a big deal, with massive protests against waste transport and so on. I wonder whether this is only an impression of mine or whether nuclear energy is in fact much less of an issue for the left in America, and if then why.
Vincardog (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-11 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. This member of the left believes Nuclear energy is and always was a very BAD idea. It KILLS at every
stage and if it were economically feasible it would be developed by the rich bastids advocating for it.
1) you won't let them build
2) if that argument is valid (and it is, if it were true in this context, see Point 1, above) then let's apply that bstandard to high-greed rail
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x430400
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There's a nuke plant less than 40 miles away from me. It doesn't bother me, and has provided some of the better fishing in the area. Of course you have to overlook the three-eyed fish, but it's a nice lake otherwise.
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There's a nuke plant less than 40 miles away from me. It doesn't bother me, and has provided some of the better fishing in the area. Of course you have to overlook the three-eyed fish, but it's a nice lake otherwise.
Well, there's one nuke 25 miles east of me, one 30 miles west of me, one 40 miles north of me and then there's the Savannah River Project with all that weapons grade stuff 90 miles south of me. The one the gummint runs has all the weird animals, frogs, lizards and the ground water polluted with pluto-nee-yum.
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Well, there's one nuke 25 miles east of me, one 30 miles west of me, one 40 miles north of me and then there's the Savannah River Project with all that weapons grade stuff 90 miles south of me. The one the gummint runs has all the weird animals, frogs, lizards and the ground water polluted with pluto-nee-yum.
Kiinda hard to separate the effects of the plant from those of the hydrogen bomb they dropped in the estuary, though.
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Kiinda hard to separate the effects of the plant from those of the hydrogen bomb they dropped in the estuary, though.
That H-bomb is a good piece down stream from the plant site.... off the coast if I remember correctly.
...and it's just one of several that we've...uh...misplaced.
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That H-bomb is a good piece down stream from the plant site.... off the coast if I remember correctly.
...and it's just one of several that we've...uh...misplaced.
It's in the bay, they think, and fairly close in, likely no farther out than Tybee Island.
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More people have died on the job in the wind energy field than the nuclear field.....oh and the nuclear energy field has produced 10^20 times more power,
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Vincardog (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-16-11 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. This member of the left believes Nuclear energy is and always was a very BAD idea. It KILLS at every
stage and if it were economically feasible it would be developed by the rich bastids advocating for it.
Ever hear of nuclear medicine DUmbFluck?
Your ignorance knows no boundaries. One of THE safest industries to work in, with a track record to prove it, is nuclear power generation.
It is not uncommon to see a sign at the entrance of a nuclear power generation facility stating "we have worked over 1 million man hours without a lost time accident."
You will never see that at a steel mill, coal mine, oil refinery, shipping docks, or airline carrier - EVER!
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I work retail. We just went 60 days without an accident. They're so thrilled, we get a cookout for it. :-)
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There's a nuke plant less than 40 miles away from me. It doesn't bother me, and has provided some of the better fishing in the area. Of course you have to overlook the three-eyed fish, but it's a nice lake otherwise.
There is one not so far from me, if it's a nice day I can see it. I think they should put up more Nuclear power plants.
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I flew over 3 mile island once and when (I can't believe I'm telling this) ... when my kids were born .... they .... they were nekkid!!
:bawl:
KC
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I flew over 3 mile island once and when (I can't believe I'm telling this) ... when my kids were born .... they .... they were nekkid!!
:bawl:
KC
ZMOG!!!!111!!!11!
Alert the Enquirer! This has toast!!11!
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I flew over 3 mile island once and when (I can't believe I'm telling this) ... when my kids were born .... they .... they were nekkid!!
:bawl:
KC
My brother-in-law was on a team that went there to shut it down and vent the gases.....his daughter was born naked too....10 years before it even happened. Dangerous stuff, ain't it.
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My brother-in-law was on a team that went there to shut it down and vent the gases.....his daughter was born naked too....10 years before it even happened. Dangerous stuff, ain't it.
Whoa! I'm glad I was just flying over it!!
KC
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I flew over 3 mile island once and when (I can't believe I'm telling this) ... when my kids were born .... they .... they were nekkid!!
:bawl:
KC
Holy shi'ite man, they were sans pod???!!!
"Cujo..."
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My brother-in-law was on a team that went there to shut it down and vent the gases.....his daughter was born naked too....10 years before it even happened. Dangerous stuff, ain't it.
I have never been to TMI, never had any children, but I continue to hear the voices.
Should I be afraid?
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I have never been to TMI, never had any children, but I continue to hear the voices.
Should I be afraid?
Be afraid my friend .... be very afraid. The NUKES are everywhere. EVERYWHERE!!
Heh.
Stoopid hippies they'll believe anything.
KC
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The problem with nukes is that there is nowhere to store the waste products. It's clean power, but the waste byproducts are terrible. One mountain in Nevada will not suffice, and cities along the rail routes don't want the wastes passing through their cities.
I remember seeing somewhere a few years ago some articles and papers that said there is absolutely a limited quantity of raw uranium to process for nukes. But I admit that I've not kept up to date on this. :o
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The problem with nukes is that there is nowhere to store the waste products. It's clean power, but the waste byproducts are terrible. One mountain in Nevada will not suffice, and cities along the rail routes don't want the wastes passing through their cities.
That's concerned me for years, decades even.
There's always been some resentment on my part, about how Nevada's considered a "wasteland," and the only place fit for such waste. Nevada actually is a very fragile and unique ecosystem, and needs left alone.
After all, Nebraska itself, in the heart, the spinal column, of America, was once considered a "wasteland".....until it was discovered we sit atop the largest underground ocean of fresh water in the world...
So Nevada's no "wasteland;" it just has potential that we haven't discerned yet.
I've always suggested nuclear wastes be stored in a place that's irretrievably ruined, incapable of restoration.
Vermont would make an excellent storage-place; the Dems, liberals, and primitives did a good job, a really good job, in utterly destroying it, and it's beyond repair anyway.
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The problem with nukes is that there is nowhere to store the waste products. It's clean power, but the waste byproducts are terrible. One mountain in Nevada will not suffice, and cities along the rail routes don't want the wastes passing through their cities.
I remember seeing somewhere a few years ago some articles and papers that said there is absolutely a limited quantity of raw uranium to process for nukes. But I admit that I've not kept up to date on this. :o
I thought that was what NAFTA was all about. Mexico agreed to let us send them our nuclear waste and Bill Clinton agreed to let them send us their criminals.
KC
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Honestly - I have always felt the best way to deal with it is to feed it to the sun. It likes radioactivity. Its just a matter of producing a transportation container that is reasonably well sealed in case of launch failure. once its out of the earth's gravity, point it at the sun and wave bye-bye.
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The problem with nukes is that there is nowhere to store the waste products. It's clean power, but the waste byproducts are terrible. One mountain in Nevada will not suffice, and cities along the rail routes don't want the wastes passing through their cities.
I remember seeing somewhere a few years ago some articles and papers that said there is absolutely a limited quantity of raw uranium to process for nukes. But I admit that I've not kept up to date on this. :o
You are mis-informed my little munchkin. Yucca Mountain can store ALL spent fuel in every nuclear facility in existence today and that which will be created in the next 1000 years. Did you know that since the late 1950's YOU have been paying a fee as part of your electric bill to fund safe storage and disposal of spent nuclear fuel? Yes, for the past 60+ years, the federal government has collected hundreds and hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars for safe storage and processing of spent nuclear fuel.
France supplies 75+% of their electrical demands via nuclear generation. They process their spent fuel, reclaim about 50+% of it and vitrify (encase in glass and bury) the remainder. 110% proven reliable technology!
Why don't we do the same?
Hippies
Enviro-terrorists
Liberals
Democrats
All one in the same...
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The problem with nukes is that there is nowhere to store the waste products. It's clean power, but the waste byproducts are terrible. One mountain in Nevada will not suffice, and cities along the rail routes don't want the wastes passing through their cities.
I remember seeing somewhere a few years ago some articles and papers that said there is absolutely a limited quantity of raw uranium to process for nukes. But I admit that I've not kept up to date on this. :o
BTW - Do some research on breeder reactors - you may be surprised. Breeder reactors can make MORE fuel than they consume. I worked at FFTF (Fast Flux Text Facility) on the Hanford reservation for a little over a year. A liquid sodium cooled breeder - liquid sodium checks in at around 800 degrees F. That is the coolant. Research it - become enlightened.
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I thought that was what NAFTA was all about. Mexico agreed to let us send them our nuclear waste and Bill Clinton agreed to let them send us their criminals.
KC
I dunno...I'm thinking I would keep the nuclear waste in the back bedroom if we can send the Clinton's permanently to Mexico!
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You are mis-informed my little munchkin. Yucca Mountain can store ALL spent fuel in every nuclear facility in existence today and that which will be created in the next 1000 years. Did you know that since the late 1950's YOU have been paying a fee as part of your electric bill to fund safe storage and disposal of spent nuclear fuel? Yes, for the past 60+ years, the federal government has collected hundreds and hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars for safe storage and processing of spent nuclear fuel.
France supplies 75+% of their electrical demands via nuclear generation. They process their spent fuel, reclaim about 50+% of it and vitrify (encase in glass and bury) the remainder. 110% proven reliable technology!
Why don't we do the same?
Hippies
Enviro-terrorists
Liberals
Democrats
All one in the same...
Yeah, the vitrification is a proven technique, and Nevada was chosen because of minimal ground water problems, since ground water intrusion would break down the vitrified waste blocks in a mere few thousand years instead of the entire geological age it might otherwise take if left dry and undisturbed.
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Well, there's one nuke 25 miles east of me, one 30 miles west of me, one 40 miles north of me and then there's the Savannah River Project with all that weapons grade stuff 90 miles south of me. The one the gummint runs has all the weird animals, frogs, lizards and the ground water polluted with pluto-nee-yum.
That's right near me and we have Plant Vogtle right across the river in GA. They're building two more reactors at Vogtle. We're all for it.
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I work at one.
I've run them, maintained them, and dare say I know as much as most, not only from a technology standpoint, but from an economic one as well.
No, DUmmies, the "safety" aspect (or lack thereof as you claim) is all in your ****ing head. So is the waste issue. Seabrook has been up and running for 20 years, and all the used fuel would fit into an Olympic-sized swimming pool. DAT is correct that if we reprocessed it (CPP up in Idaho, anyone?) it we'd end up with far less, but guess which president shut that little idea down (hint: Carter.)
And memo to DUmmies--you might want to look into it and find out what sources of energy have the highest subsidies from the government. IOW, my company loves to brag that they've got so much wind power, solar, etc. But guess what? The CNO (Chief Nuclear Officer) spoke with us a few weeks ago and stated that the new Congress would have a HUGE impact on how much expansion in those areas they did, solely because of the tax breaks they get from putting up new wind farms, etc. Bottom line, it's not a viable technology and it's certainly not cheaper. But hey, what do you care if you don't see it on your electric bill, right? Problem is, you ARE paying for it, whether you realize it or not.
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education = palliation
BEIJING (AP) — Chinese scientists have mastered the technology for reprocessing fuel from nuclear power plants, potentially increasing the supply of carbon-free electricity to keep the country’s economy booming, state television reported Monday.
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Russia, India, Japan and several European countries already reprocess nuclear fuel — the material used to produce energy from nuclear reactors — to separate and recover the unused uranium and plutonium, as well as to reduce waste and safely close the nuclear cycle.
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Reprocessing nuclear fuel costs significantly more than using the fuel once and storing it as waste. It also raises potential questions, because extracted plutonium can be used to make nuclear weapons, although China has long had a nuclear arsenal.
The commercial reprocessing of plutonium was halted in the United States decades ago by President Jimmy Carter because of concerns about nuclear proliferation. President George W. Bush proposed a resumption, but the National Research Council found it to be not economically justifiable. President Obama scrapped the Bush proposal.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/04/world/asia/04china.html
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President Obama scrapped the Bush proposal.
Why does Obama hate the US and anything that might lead to energy independence ?
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BTW - Do some research on breeder reactors - you may be surprised. Breeder reactors can make MORE fuel than they consume. I worked at FFTF (Fast Flux Text Facility) on the Hanford reservation for a little over a year. A liquid sodium cooled breeder - liquid sodium checks in at around 800 degrees F. That is the coolant. Research it - become enlightened.
Only problem with Hanford is they stored the waste in containers that went to shit. It's now a superfund site!
Then there's that little problem of leaking some of it into the atmosphere over a period of years. Was a big stink about it a few years back and the gubmint ended up payin' thousands of people oodles of our money for the mistakes!
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Why does Obama hate the US and anything that might lead to energy independence ?
Well, the Kenyan was educated in an Indonesian madrassa. Might it have anything to do with the global caliphate?
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Only problem with Hanford is they stored the waste in containers that went to shit. It's now a superfund site!
Then there's that little problem of leaking some of it into the atmosphere over a period of years. Was a big stink about it a few years back and the gubmint ended up payin' thousands of people oodles of our money for the mistakes!
My older brother worked in Idaho, (we were raised in Idaho Falls) at the INEL (now the INL) at CPP reprocessing the Navy nuke spent fuel for about 30 years. Got tired of the crap plus the hippie pukes from Sun Valley, Twin Falls, and Jackson Hole formed the Snake River Alliance are a real REGRESSIVE pain in the ass for the INL. They lobbied Bill Clinton and Sec. of Energy Hazel O'Leary (remember that piece of work?) and they pretty much shut down CPP. Brother got tired of the B.S. after being transferred to supervisor over cleaning up a burial pit that contained transuranic wastes - real nasty shit. My brother quit and moved to Richland, WA to work for Washington River Protection Solutions (WRPS). Initially they are transferring waste from the single wall underground tanks, some of which have been leaking for 30 years or more, to double walled tanks. All of this is in preparation for the vitrification plant being built by Bechtel. The vit plant is scheduled to begin processing low-level waste in its front end in 2015 with full operation and processing of the tank wastes around 2020 - 2025. The crap in those tanks, all 53 MILLION gallons of it, and not just the radiological elements but the acids and other chemicals used to separate and process the plutonium from the irradiated fuel from the Hanford reactors is some of the most poisonous crap in the world. Yes, Hanford is considered THE most toxic place on the planet. The entire operation has been one giant cleanup cluster f*ck after another since the early 80's.
As far as the releases, the worst releases were in the 1940's and 1950's when Air Force and government officials approved the release of Iodine-131. The most notorious being the 1949 "Green Run":
"Green Run" refers to a secret U.S. Air Force experiment at Washington State's Hanford Nuclear Reservation that released somewhere between 7,000 and 12,000 curies of iodine-131 into the air on December 2-3, 1949. The experiment was called the Green Run because it involved a processing "run" of uranium fuel that had been cooled for only a short time (16 days), and was, therefore, "green." The normal practice in 1949 was to cool the fuel 90 to 100 days before processing. The longer cooling time allows for radiation, especially iodine-131, to decay to lower levels.
The reported purpose of the Green Run was to test monitoring equipment the Air Force was developing for its intelligence activities concerning the Soviet Union's nuclear weapons program. The Green Run remained a top government secret until the 1980s when reports were made public in response to Freedom of Information Act requests. The requests were filed by the Hanford Education Action League and the newspaper The Spokesman-Review, both based in Spokane. The U.S. Air Force continues to withhold significant information about the Green Run including the names of the official(s) who ordered the experiment and the intelligence unit that participated in the monitoring.
http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/Green+Run+-+Hanford
After the releases, that crap was detected through Washington, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah, down into Nevada and as far north as parts of Canada even though wind patterns were in a south-easterly direction. The Iodine would settle in among other places, wheat and hay fields and grasslands. The cows ate the hay and grass, people drank the crapped-up milk from the cows, the Iodine would concentrate in the thyroid, then the thyroid would go cancerous and grow to the size of a baseball. Killed several people and ruined the lives of thousands. Do a search on the "Hanford Down-Winders." Quite a nasty thing to do HOWEVER, scientists knew far, far less about the effects of Iodine-131 and how far it can spread when airborne than they do now.
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Well, the Kenyan was educated in an Indonesian madrassa. Might it have anything to do with the global caliphate?
I dunno, what do you think?
Muslim Brotherhood Cleric Calls for a “United Muslim Nationsâ€â€¦
He is a driven man. There are so many decisions to be made in this godforsaken modern age, and yet there is only one mufti, only one Islamic scholar like Qaradawi, who knew the Koran by heart by the time he was 10, only one man who can help the faithful understand the world.
Qaradawi is the father figure of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood, the country’s best-organized opposition group. The Brotherhood is sure to play a part in deciding what path Egypt will now take.
The Islamist group asked Qaradawi to be their leader in 2002, but he turned them down. Such a position would have been too limiting. He has a different mission. He feels compelled to talk.
Qaradawi advocates establishing a “United Muslim Nations†as a contemporary form of the caliphate and the only alternative to the hegemony of the West. He hates Israel and would love to take up arms himself. In one of his sermons, he asked God “to kill the Jewish Zionists, every last one of them.â€
In January 2009, he said: “Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the [Jews] people who would punish them for their corruption. The last punishment was carried out by [Adolf] Hitler.†>>>> Link (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,745526,00.html)
weazelzippers (http://weaselzippers.us/2011/02/16/muslim-brotherhood-cleric-calls-for-a-%E2%80%9Cunited-muslim-nations%E2%80%9D/)
As if the UN isn't already anti-American enough for them.
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As if the UN isn't already anti-American enough for them.
It isn't. Anti-American ENOUGH, for them that is. After all, the UN still allows the Great Satan a permanent seat on the Security Counsel.
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I still like the Sun idea. We could let out of work democrats pilot.
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I still like the Sun idea. We could let out of work democrats pilot.
Just tell 'em that so long as they land to unload their cargos at night, they should be fine. O-)
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This report is from 2006, but there has been almost no study of the faults in that area, and little is known about them. It's only 500 miles from Yellowstone, which is sitting on the caldera that will blow today or next year of whenever. Then what happens to groundwater supplies and other things we need? Las Vegas may become a ghost town.
The 1000 year figure you stated is not correct. Yucca Mountain will be at its storage capacity long before it officially opens.
Moderators Note: Excerpts from the Las Vegas Review Journal are not allowed to be posted.
Links only please
http://www.arizonaenergy.org/News04/News%20Oct04/yucca_mountain_to_be_at_capacity.htm (http://www.arizonaenergy.org/News04/News%20Oct04/yucca_mountain_to_be_at_capacity.htm)
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My university had nuclear waste on campus...and aside from my kid having that extra limb, she's fine. Of course, I attribute that to the DC water and not the nuclear waste at the VSL. :-)
Seriously, I never understood what the big deal was with these damn hippies hating nuclear power. It's relatively clean, it's abundant, and would relieve some of our dependence on foreign oil. I would rather live near a nuclear power plant than an oil refinery.
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This report is from 2006, but there has been almost no study of the faults in that area, and little is known about them. It's only 500 miles from Yellowstone, which is sitting on the caldera that will blow today or next year of whenever.[/b\ Then what happens to groundwater supplies and other things we need? Las Vegas may become a ghost town.
If Yellowstone goes, I'm not worrying too much about the nuclear waste on Yucca mountain.
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If Yellowstone goes, I'm not worrying too much about the nuclear waste on Yucca mountain.
No kidding. Since every entrance would probably be under many feet of cooling volcanic ash and most of the humans likely to be affected would be dead, it doesn't seem like much of a problem.
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No kidding. Since every entrance would probably be under many feet of cooling volcanic ash and most of the humans likely to be affected would be dead, it doesn't seem like much of a problem.
I'm just praying there is a prevailing north westerly wind when it happens! We're borderline on the edge of the destruction as it is!
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I'm just praying there is a prevailing north westerly wind when it happens! We're borderline on the edge of the destruction as it is!
Gee, thanks dude. Push it in my direction, why doncha?!?! :argh: :thatsright: :tongue:
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BTW, great posts, PatriotGame, you do know your shit on the nuke stuff!
:cheersmate:
ETA - Oh, and H5!
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Gee, thanks dude. Push it in my direction, why doncha?!?! :argh: :thatsright: :tongue:
Sorry Bubba, but if that thing pukes, it's every man and his family for himself!!!
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No kidding. Since every entrance would probably be under many feet of cooling volcanic ash and most of the humans likely to be affected would be dead, it doesn't seem like much of a problem.
That would be the case all over the North American continent.
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PG--yup--problem is, back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's, people had no clue about "mixed material" wastes, MSDS, or any of the other environmental rules we have now. People would just dump shit out with no interest or knowledge that separating the wastes might be a good idea (gee, ya think?)
So now we've got tanks in there that you open up and NOBODY knows what the hell is in any of them, which is why Hanford is such a goat-rope right now.
Oh, and a little trivia for ya, kiddies--take the high-level spent fuel wastes, stick them in the ground in a place like Yucca, and in 500 years they'll have decayed to the point they're LESS radioactive than the ore that was taken from the ground originally.
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Oh, and a little trivia for ya, kiddies--take the high-level spent fuel wastes, stick them in the ground in a place like Yucca, and in 500 years they'll have decayed to the point they're LESS radioactive than the ore that was taken from the ground originally.
Well insulated house built on concrete slab, a basement, granite counter tops, etc.....= radon gas....live in the Mile High City of Denver = even more radiation.
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Oh, and a little trivia for ya, kiddies--take the high-level spent fuel wastes, stick them in the ground in a place like Yucca, and in 500 years they'll have decayed to the point they're LESS radioactive than the ore that was taken from the ground originally.
Great point Sparky, the fact that the shit was radioactive when it was IN the ground before mining is totally lost on the Luddites.
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Well insulated house built on concrete slab, a basement, granite counter tops, etc.....= radon gas....live in the Mile High City of Denver = even more radiation.
It amazes me how much these idiots will spend out here on "radon mitigation systems". If they only knew how much exposure they were getting from that, even if they did live in their basements.
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It amazes me how much these idiots will spend out here on "radon mitigation systems". If they only knew how much exposure they were getting from that, even if they did live in their basements.
Hollywood NeoCon thread in general discussion; wish him well.