The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: thundley4 on February 02, 2011, 05:03:09 PM
-
somone (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:05 PM
Original message
Four Years of College Isn't for Everyone, Harvard Study Says
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-02/four-years-of-...
Four Years of College Isn't for Everyone, Harvard Study Says
By Janet Lorin
The U.S. is focusing too much attention on helping students pursue four-year college degrees, when two-year and occupational programs may better prepare them for the job market, a Harvard University report said.
The “college for all†movement has produced only incremental gains as other nations leapfrog the United States, and the country is failing to prepare millions of young people to become employable adults, said the authors of the Pathways to Prosperity Project, based at the Harvard Graduate School of Education in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Most of the 47 million jobs to be created by 2018 will require some postsecondary education, the report said. Educators should offer young people two-year degrees and apprenticeships to achieve career success, and do more to ensure that students who begin such programs complete them, said Robert Schwartz, academic dean at Harvard’s education school, who heads the Pathways project.
“For an awful lot of bored, disengaged kids who are on the fence about completing high school, they need to see a pathway that leads them to a career that is not going to require them to sit in classrooms for the next several years,†Schwartz said yesterday in a telephone interview. If young people don’t have a degree or credential that helps them begin a career, the U.S. will continue to lag behind in educational attainment and preparing the next generation of workers needed to keep the economy strong, Schwartz said...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x331602
cynatnite (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I don't see it as a bad thing...
Maybe a counselor somewhere will read this and not push someone to take on 4 years of college who is probably not able to complete it. Too many make the assumption that's what everyone should do. This study could help change those assumptions.
CTyankee (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. We can look to other countries who are succeeding where we are not.
I believe that Germany is one that guarantees an education, but not necessarily one at the University. Thus, they have a well educated populace doing work that needs doing and where there are jobs.
I don't know why we can't do this.
Drale (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You really want to know why?
Because if we educated everyone there would be only a very small if any right wing in this country. They rely on the stupid uneducated folks to vote for them. Thats why they would never let everyone be guaranteed an education.
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Tea Party members have a higher average education than the general public
So, no, education does not rid people of right-wing ideas.
lukasahero (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. I'd like to see your support for that claim
Sorry, just not ready to swallow that w/o some evidence.
DUmmies will swallow anything except when it conflicts with views.
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. It's only been posted here like a million times, but sure...
Edited on Wed Feb-02-11 03:04 PM by Recursion
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/15/us/politics/15poll.ht...
(And I'm not griping at you in particular for missing this; I'm griping that this went down the memory hole so quickly in general.)
Post it a million more times, but it gets unrecced so fast that it disappears.
Drale (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Did I say anything about the tea party?
The Tea Party is a very small fringe minority with in the US. They are made to seem like they have more members because of the M$M. The majority of the people who vote republican do so because they can not see through the right wing propaganda coming from Faux news and the right wing hate radio.
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. And you implied that more education would allow them to see through it
I brought up the tea partiers as a counter-example: this is a group of people with higher average educational attainment than the general public, and yet they show no sign of seeing through conservative propaganda.
ironrooster (224 posts) Wed Feb-02-11 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
45. That is INCORRECT - It is the TP "backers" who have a higher education.
Read the nytimes article listed downthread,
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. You mean the NYT article I posted?
It polled people who self-identify as "tea party supporters", lists them as 18% of the population (which is consistent with what we've seen in other polls, maybe even a little on the low side), and lays out their educational attainment, which is higher than the national average.
Even if you were right, that would still support my point that education does not protect people from right-wing ideas.
lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
56. I think the opposite is true
Education primarily trains people in the proper deference to authority.
Build more libraries, not colleges.
It has trained you DUmmies to follow "groupthink" quite well.
I didn't read through the whole thing, but most of it. No where did I see any mention of the problems associated with Affirmative Action.
-
Four years of college isn't enough to educate a DUmmie
Maybe 25 years in a VRWC re-education/labor camp can get through those tungsten craniums where the marxist college profs couldn't? O-) :-)
-
Maybe 25 years in a VRWC re-education/labor camp can get through those tungsten craniums where the marxist college profs couldn't? O-) :-)
No, I don't think it'd work.
They still wouldn't be able to tie their shoes. :-)
-
SERIOUSLY!
What does a womens, black, latino, LGBT studies qualify you for?
I can think of only one genre, government or NGOs. It sure doesn't bring anything to the private sector. Give me someone that knows how to machine, work sheet metal, weld, repair machinery, plumb, run wire, cook a good meal, etc. Those are some real skills that are usable in the real world. Being indoctrinated to rabble rouse off the public teat is not.
-
SERIOUSLY!
What does a womens, black, latino, LGBT studies qualify you for?
I can think of only one genre, government or NGOs. It sure doesn't bring anything to the private sector. Give me someone that knows how to machine, work sheet metal, weld, repair machinery, plumb, run wire, cook a good meal, etc. Those are some real skills that are usable in the real world. Being indoctrinated to rabble rouse off the public teat is not.
I was talking to a man who has a machine shop on his proerty where he builds custom parts, and gets paid very good money for them. He says he would rather have a man that dropped out of school at sixth grade, because the man knows his only chance is to know everyt machine and how to read schematics backwards and forward and bust his tail. He regarded a lot of college educated young men to be arrogant and unwilling to learn from someone like him. He tells them he graduated high school, in reality he has a doctorate in engineering.
-
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-02-11 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Tea Party members have a higher average education than the general public
Finally, a DUmmie speaks the truth. :wink:
-
Finally, a DUmmie speaks the truth. :wink:
He's not long for the DUmp. :tumbleweed:
-
I won't tackle the question of how long it would take to educate a DUmmy.
I will comment that all my children opted for two year degrees and two of the three are self supporting and have started savings plans. The third is opting for more school for a specific skill and working to save money.
They don't want loan debt and also cite the instability of the economy and wanting to make some money while they can.
I think colleges priced themselves out of the market. I also noted increases in the requirements for many degrees while I attended. Two additional semesters for a BA in teaching. Four additional semesters for entry level degrees in some allied health fields. I think it's all about the money.
-
SERIOUSLY!
What does a womens, black, latino, LGBT studies qualify you for?
I can think of only one genre, government or NGOs. It sure doesn't bring anything to the private sector. Give me someone that knows how to machine, work sheet metal, weld, repair machinery, plumb, run wire, cook a good meal, etc. Those are some real skills that are usable in the real world. Being indoctrinated to rabble rouse off the public teat is not.
We were just discussing this last night. High schools no longer have machine shop, welding, mechanics, carpentry, money management or any useful life skills. I was the first girl to take wood shop at my school; we built a garage, auto shop rebuilt a '59 Skyliner.
-
We were just discussing this last night. High schools no longer have machine shop, welding, mechanics, carpentry, money management or any useful life skills. I was the first girl to take wood shop at my school; we built a garage, auto shop rebuilt a '59 Skyliner.
This.
-
I agree, longview, it's all about the money. Accounting is now a 5-year program. Not freaking necessary. Get out in the real world, do some books for a real company. My first accounting job out of college, I felt like big DUmmie. Going from a theoretical textbook to "get this done by tomorrow morning" is a big leap, should be done sooner than later. (And I got straight A's). Also, our Cost Accounting textbooks were woefully outdated, I mean they belonged to 1880 or something. Labor was treated as a variable input cost. Not in a union plant, it ain't. Fixed cost and then some.
-
Also, our Cost Accounting textbooks were woefully outdated, I mean they belonged to 1880 or something. Labor was treated as a variable input cost. Not in a union plant, it ain't. Fixed cost and then some.
Not to mention tax classes. Those textbooks were out of date when we were using them. Not to mention they were incredibly expensive and you couldn't return them for any beer money at semester's end. :-)
-
High schools no longer have machine shop, welding, mechanics, carpentry, money management or any useful life skills.
I went to a 'comprehensive' high school that included vocational training in addition to the academic requirements. You could take auto body/welding, aircraft mechanics, auto mechanics, basic electronics... just about any job you could get after graduating, you could get training for it there. I took one computer class and switched over to commercial art because they had the best computers in the school. I can't draw for crap but I got to use better computers with newer software.
-
Better look in the mirror, DUmb DUmbs. We have had 40+ years of Liberal Indoctrination in our College system, so that we end up with nothing but professional protesters, or Noam Chomsky think-alikes.
-
We were just discussing this last night. High schools no longer have machine shop, welding, mechanics, carpentry, money management or any useful life skills. I was the first girl to take wood shop at my school; we built a garage, auto shop rebuilt a '59 Skyliner.
But you can put a condom on a cucumber and feel GOOD about it, even if you can't read your diploma!
Ah, what the hell. The world needs ditch diggers too!
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwYJxNnABp4[/youtube]
-
High schools no longer have machine shop, welding, mechanics, carpentry, money management or any useful life skills.
I went to a 'comprehensive' high school that included vocational training in addition to the academic requirements. You could take auto body/welding, aircraft mechanics, auto mechanics, basic electronics... just about any job you could get after graduating, you could get training for it there. I took one computer class and switched over to commercial art because they had the best computers in the school. I can't draw for crap but I got to use better computers with newer software.
Back in the dark ages, when I went to school (it wasn't as far back as pre-historic times, like when Thor and Eupher were in school and rocks were the latest fad), we had a regional vocational skills center run by several of the local school districts collectively. Had courses in auto shop (kid could graduate with ASE certification), construction trades (run in conjunction with the local trade unions; the kids there would graduate with their trade apprenticeships under their belts - final project was a house). Long and short of it, HERE (http://www.westsoundtech.com/main.html), you can see that they're still in operation and have even expanded their course catalog some.
Feeling nostalgic a little while back (it's been 22 years since I'd wandered the halls of me old stomping grounds) I actually found my old high school's website (gee, where was THAT when I was growing up) a few weeks ago. They'd taken the re-design of the Industrial Arts department that I'd done for them, and expanded it considerably. Auto shop was still there, right where I'd left it; the wood and metals shops had a couple of C-N-C pieces in their tool chest that weren't there before. The laser lab had been taken out (the shop teacher had thought that holography was going to be much bigger than it turned out to be and had a storage area off the wood shop fitted with a sand table and lasers, etc.) and replaced with classroom space. The CAD lab where I'd spent so many of my formative hours had been hugely expanded.
Perhaps my high school is something of an exception, but it seems that at least these guys are focused on giving their skulls full of mush some basic familiarity with the evolving tools and trades of the modern day.
-
I agree, longview, it's all about the money. Accounting is now a 5-year program. Not freaking necessary. Get out in the real world, do some books for a real company. My first accounting job out of college, I felt like big DUmmie. Going from a theoretical textbook to "get this done by tomorrow morning" is a big leap, should be done sooner than later. (And I got straight A's). Also, our Cost Accounting textbooks were woefully outdated, I mean they belonged to 1880 or something. Labor was treated as a variable input cost. Not in a union plant, it ain't. Fixed cost and then some.
I took a year of accounting in High School. Since then I've done my own books, those for 2 construction companies when I was younger and did Inventory Control for LiteHouse Foods Inc in my later years.
Came thru a total of 6 audits with flyin' colors! What do they teach you in college? Enron Accounting?