The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: VivisMom on January 18, 2011, 08:08:33 PM
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I was trolling in the Feminists group when I stumbled upon this little gem:
Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x8577)
Stuckinthebush (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-23-06 03:58 PM
Original message
"Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters" by Meg Meeker
My brother in law called to say that he was sending a book to me that he said he loved and thought I needed to read since I had three daughters. I was suspicious because he is a die-hard FOX news watcher and non-critical thinker. He knows my politics well, and so I figured he wouldn't send me a blatantly conservative book.
It arrived today from Amazon - a fresh book! I checked the author: Meg Meeker, M.D. I didn't know anything about her, so I looked at the back cover. There were quotes from a Dr. Armand Nicholi, a psychiatrist at Harvard. Nothing scary yet. There was one from Elayne Bennett, president of the Best Friends Foundation. Didn't know her, but her last name was scary. Then there was a quote from David Limbaugh, Rush's brother. Red Flag!!!
So, I open the jacket and begin to read out loud to my wife sitting across the room from me:
"The most important person in a young girl's life? Her father. That's right - and teen health expert Dr. Meg Meeker has the data and clinical experience to prove it. After more than twenty years of counseling girls, she knows that fathers, more than anyone else, set the course for their daughters' lives. Now Dr. Meeker, author of the critically acclaimed 'Epidemic: How Teen Sex Is Killing Our Kids', shows you how to strengthen or rebuild your bond with your daughter, and how to use it to shape her life, and yours, for the better"
OK...as a critical social theorist, I can de-construct the language in the first paragraph, and the title of the author's other book is a bit right wingie sounding, but aside from the removal of mothers as important figures in a teen girls life, no other blaring warning sirens are going off yet. My wife looks at me with furrowed brow....I continue...
"Directly challenging the feminist attack on traditional masculinity...."
My wife screams, "THERE IT IS!"
"....Dr. Meeker demonstrates that the most important factor for girls growing up into confident, well adjusted women is a strong father with conservative values. To have one, she shows, is the best protection against eating disorders, failure in school, STDs, unwed pregnancy and drug or alcohol abuse - and the best predictor of academic achievement, successful marriage, and a satisfying emotional life."
By this point my wife is yelling, "What is with my brother? Does he not get it? Does he not understand that we abhor this shit?"
Well, I'll leave the psychoanalysis to my psychiatrist wife, but I would say that he doesn't have a critical bone in his body. Not one. I don't think he intentionally purchased a conservative book to send to us in order to piss us off...I just think he doesn't get it.
Well, my question to all of the wonderful thinkers in this group is, "What the hell should I do with this?"
Clearly, it is going to make my blood boil to read it, but perhaps I should read it and dissect it bit by bit for my brother in law. But will that help? I don't know if he knows that I consider myself a feminist, but shouldn't he? How can I use this opportunity to inject some little bit of critical analysis in his FOX-based world?
There is a long shot that if I read this, it won't be so bad. But based on the jacket, I have little hope of that.
My other question is, "What do we know about this Meg Meeker?" I did a quick Google on her, and she has been a feature speaker at some conservative meetings, and she has a host of conservative books out. Anything else from the feminists blogs that might be helpful for me to know as I de-construct this book?
Thanks!
When we found out we were having a daughter, I bought that book for my husband and we both read it. As someone who was once a teenage girl, I found the book to be very insightful and really helped me to understand 1) my own relationship with men and 2) why many young women I knew (who had less that stellar relationships with their father) struggled with sexual promiscuity and body image issues. Funny how most of those girls were liberals and grew up in liberal families.
Anyway.
The reaction to this book made me LOL. Only the DUmbasses would see this as an insult and not as one father offering advice to another.
Warpy (1000+ posts) Tue Oct-24-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I'd send it to him
Edited on Tue Oct-24-06 12:43 PM by Warpy
and say you didn't have time to read anything beyond the blurb, but it looked like something you really wouldn't be interested in, ever, and he might possibly be able to find someone it would be a more appropriate gift for.
That's the tactful way to tell him the book is a crock of shit, that your life is too important to waste reading right wing garbage, and that he really needs to consider what he's doing when he sends out right wing crap to people who find it reprehensible.
You stay classy, Warpy.
geniph (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-23-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow, by that logic, I should be living under the freeway
I not only had no father, I had no father figure (my bio-father absconded when I was six weeks old and I was brought up by lesbians with essentially no exposure to adult males at all).
I never had an eating disorder. I had straight A's for most of my school career. I've never had an STD (what the hell does a father have to do with that?!), I've never been pregnant, and I've never abused drugs and alcohol. I have a successful marriage, a very successful career, and I'm a functional, taxpaying citizen.
How can such a thing be? How can I possibly have become a confident, well-adjusted woman without any father figure, let alone a strong one with conservative values? Must be sheer anomaly, right?
You can't be that well adjusted if you post at the DUmp. Also, your liberal leanings make me wonder what mental illness lurks beneath.
Stuckinthebush (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-23-06 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. Just got back from class, and had time to look at the contents...
Get a load of the table of contents:
1 - You are the most important man in her life (OK...I can accept that statement)You sure?
2 - She needs a hero (A hero? How about a loving parent who treats her with respect)Respect needs to be earned. When she's a little girl, she needs you to be her protector, not her friend.
3 - You are her first love
4 - Teach her humility (Uh oh...don't want no uppity women)Humility means someone who is capable of thinking of others first, it has nothing to do with being uppity
5 - Protect her, defend her and use a shotgun if necessary (Ah yes, the stereotype of the girl needing to be protected)Apparently you missed the memo that the victims of sexual assault are most likely to be females?
6 - Pragmatism and Grit: Two of your greatest assets (Grit? Who am I, John Wayne?)You wish, asshat
7 - Be the man you want her to marry (OK...can go with this. Of course, she may not choose to marry or may not want to marry a man)If she's smart, she will marry the man who is your polar opposite
8 - Teach her who God is (Don't get me started)Yes, because faith is bad
9 - Teach her to fight (Hell, I don't even fight, why would I teach her to fight?)A woman who can stand up for herself is less likely to be taken advantage of or abused
10 - Keep her connected (so she never feels any independence)So she feels like she always has someone to rely on
This should be fun.
This thread is chock full of people who have some serious issues with authority and parenting in general.
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Great find.
And because of the DUmmies organic panties getting wadded up over this book, I think I'll order it.
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I may need to order that book
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I had a response all typed out then I lost it. :argh:
A child needs their father in their life. Of course sometimes that is not possible but a good father plays such an important part of a child's upbringing. I am so lucky to have my husband as my children's father. I tell them all the time how lucky they are to have such a wonderful dad. I hope when they grow up they pick a father/mother for their kids as wonderful as he is. I lucked out with him, I didn't have a very good example of what a husband/father should be. I tell them all the time to never accept anything less, God I hope they never do.
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"....Dr. Meeker demonstrates that the most important factor for girls growing up into confident, well adjusted women is a strong father with conservative values.
I totally believe that, also Fathers are the 1st man a girl loves so it's important for men to realize that.
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The reason why I do not have children is because I wouldn't have them with any guy I was involved with during the time I wanted to have children. My childhood wasn't perfect, and my Dad did the best he could, but the guys I married, oh hell no! I knew by that time what importance a father should have in the rearing of the child.
Funny, I found the perfect Dad after I stopped looking for him. We share a dog, and I couldn't be happier. Now I am just too dang old for kids. Not by anyone's definition other than mine. I have become stuck in my ways, and selfish with my "alone time." Combined, we share 3 nieces and 2 nephews. That is enough.
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I not only had no father, I had no father figure (my bio-father absconded when I was six weeks old and I was brought up by lesbians with essentially no exposure to adult males at all).
That's what democrats would call an "Ozzie and Harriet" childhood.
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The companion book was called : "Strong Women, No Father , Gay Son". O-)
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This is what Christopher Hitchens meant when he stated during an interview, "There is no intolerance like liberal intolerance, no closed-mindedness like the closed-mindedness of liberals."
The DUmmy and his wife have foreclosed on the book before even reading it. They approach it not to evaluate, but to debunk. So steeped in dogma are they that they refuse to even countenance the possibility that a different view may hold some worth. They key in on certain trigger words and phrases while refusing to consider the context, e.g. fight=physical violence, humility=oppression, connected=smothering (Bear in mind these are the people who crow non-stop about their "critical thinking skills"). That's why propagandists like Michael Moore are so successful with that crowd and why DU won't allow opposing points of view.
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I got news for this DUmbass, nothin' will keep your daughter from bein' promiscuous like the fear instilled by DAD!
They can say anything else they want, it won't change the ****in' truth!
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I got news for this DUmbass, nothin' will keep your daughter from bein' promiscuous like the fear instilled by DAD!
They can say anything else they want, it won't change the ****in' truth!
I honestly don't think fear is what does it. A good father will instill a sense of self worth. An absent or bad father will do the opposite.
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So stuckinthebush's brother-in-law is a "non-critical" thinker. Stuckinthebush sounds like one of those pseudointellectuals who thinks that he is way smarter than everyone else, especially conservatives.
Methinks he's trying to hide his paranoia, mental illness, and inferiority complex with all of the fancy intellectual speak.
I'm not a psychologist, but it's easy to play one over at the DUmp. They are very easy to psychoanalyze just by the way they post.
:ohsnap:
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I honestly don't think fear is what does it. A good father will instill a sense of self worth. An absent or bad father will do the opposite.
Oh I agree completely, but a little fear goes a long way after they turn 16! Specially with those horn dogs campin' out on the doorstep!
Fear goes a long way with peckerwoods too!
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A shitty father will have a negative affect on a daughter's life. Just as it will on a son's...only differently.
Any child of a shitty father will tell you it is true.
So will any psychiatrist.
OP clearly states his wife is a psychiatrist... :whistling:
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A shitty father will have a negative affect on a daughter's life. Just as it will on a son's...only differently.
Any child of a shitty father will tell you it is true.
So will any psychiatrist.
OP clearly states his wife is a psychiatrist... :whistling:
Oh crap! I didn't take that into consideration!
My only advice, havin' raised 1 girl and workin' on 3 grandgirls is, RUN!!!!!! Those idiots will over simplify everything! If not that, they will try and chalk it up to somethin' that happened in the womb, or "you're horny cause your father is inadequate"! It obviously has to be someone else's fault! When was the last time a DUmmie took responsibility for it's own?
All of sudden I feel sorry for the girl! Sure am glad I taught mine the difference between what's right and wrong morally! I fear she has a rough road to travel! Any bets on an abortion in her future? Lousy thing to say, but that is how they raise their children. Abortion is birth control to these asshats.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v630/MrSnuggleBunny/liberal-chicks.jpg)
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Great find.
And because of the DUmmies organic panties getting wadded up over this book, I think I'll order it.
It really spells it out for the men how important they are to a daughter and gives them some good basics on how to have a good relationship with a daughter. I recommend it.
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dandi, I H5'd you for your post, couldn't have said it better.
I'll just add, get a load of that wife of his, constantly screaming and yelling, furrows dug into her face. What a charming life-mate.
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geniph (1000+ posts) Mon Oct-23-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow, by that logic, I should be living under the freeway
I not only had no father, I had no father figure (my bio-father absconded when I was six weeks old and I was brought up by lesbians with essentially no exposure to adult males at all).
I never had an eating disorder. I had straight A's for most of my school career. I've never had an STD (what the hell does a father have to do with that?!), I've never been pregnant, and I've never abused drugs and alcohol. I have a successful marriage, a very successful career, and I'm a functional, taxpaying citizen.
How can such a thing be? How can I possibly have become a confident, well-adjusted woman without any father figure, let alone a strong one with conservative values? Must be sheer anomaly, right?
What gender or species?
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What gender or species?
Some women have probably done better not having had a father figure at all, than having had a really bad one.
If a girl has a strong, independent, hardworking, loving mother to teach them how to be the best that they can, and there are a lot of single mothers out there that fit this category! ...as opposed to a mother who cats around going to the bars looking for men and sleeping with any tom, dick or harry that wants them for a night, stays with a man who abuses both the mother and the children, collects permanent welfare, does drugs, ignores the girl....the girl is going to do fine, provided the crappy father had little to no influence or presence in the girl's life.
Sometimes, a mother can counteract a father's behavioral influence on the children and sometimes she can't, just as sometimes it's the father that's the positive influence instead of the mother. It's much more difficult in today's world, when judges are more likely to give both parents equal time with the children, to protect children from the less than stellar parent.
The personality and behavior of both parents have a great impact on a child - regardless of the sex of the child. The difference is that a girl will consciously, AND unconsciously, look for men that are like her father. The better the father - in all aspects of his life - the better the daughter's choices in boys/men. Women tend to retain many of personality and behavior, etc, of their mothers unless they are determined to be "different" from their mothers. It could be that because a woman's "role" in society has changed so much since WWII and even more so in the last 30 years, that external forces have had such a much greater influence on women than men. The external influences have had both positive and negative impact on women.
Men will tend to treat the women in their lives the way their father treated their mother, and/or the way their mother taught them to treat women. Men are also likely to acquire many of the traits of their fathers...good and bad...and will keep both of those traits unless some external influence - mother, other family members, friends, teachers, etc. - alter the man's behavior prior to teenage years, as most people's (male and female) personalities are formed by the time they reach 13 or 14. To change after that point in life...requires some pretty strong influences.
I would think a well written book about the influence a father has on his daughter's life and how to be a positive influence on the daughter - regardless of the political leanings of the author - would be a good thing for a man to read.
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I honestly don't think fear is what does it. A good father will instill a sense of self worth. An absent or bad father will do the opposite.
Exactly.
The DUmbasses equate a strong relationship with a father as booting the mother. They have no clue about balance.
I'm pretty sure my daughter has absolutly no clue that I'm teaching her about men. But one day I hope she goes "Oh shit, thats what he was doing!" :-)
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Having the communist democrat party wet dream of no father figure has worked so well for the black community.
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Some women have probably done better not having had a father figure at all, than having had a really bad one.
I suspect you're dead on there, a bad father can do incredible damage, really much worse than any of us would care to think about.
Still, I applaud the author, I feel she is fundamentally right about the superior value of having a good father in a girl's life to provide a well-centered picture for her of gender relations, where she can and should fit in, and what she should demand in a partner instead of taking the street-sweepings that our popular culture would try to sell her.
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Having the communist democrat party wet dream of no father figure has worked so well for the black community.
It does accomplish the goal of keeping them on the liberal plantation, though.
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Great find.
And because of the DUmmies organic panties getting wadded up over this book, I think I'll order it.
:-)
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I suspect you're dead on there, a bad father can do incredible damage, really much worse than any of us would care to think about.
Still, I applaud the author, I feel she is fundamentally right about the superior value of having a good father in a girl's life to provide a well-centered picture for her of gender relations, where she can and should fit in, and what she should demand in a partner instead of taking the street-sweepings that our popular culture would try to sell her.
Having had a "bad" father, myself ...I know. I also am very aware of how my ex's actions and interactions with my children have affected them. "Bad" mothers can be equally detrimental to both daughters and sons.
However, I would also like to point out, particularly in today's world, step-parents can also have both positive and negative impacts on children. At the very least, the step-parent will influence the biological parent's interactions with the child.
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Having had a "bad" father, myself ...I know. I also am very aware of how my ex's actions and interactions with my children have affected them. "Bad" mothers can be equally detrimental to both daughters and sons.
However, I would also like to point out, particularly in today's world, step-parents can also have both positive and negative impacts on children. At the very least, the step-parent will influence the biological parent's interactions with the child.
Deb, I couldn't agree with you more. My step-mom was a fabulous star in my dark night of adolescence. Everything that I went through, I would gladly go through again just to keep her in my life.
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Since geniph didn't mention gender, I was wondering if it were to someone that the marriage is recognized in all 50 states and by the IRS.
That's what I was alluding to.
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Oh, I agree; it's really about the child's accepted father figure in the child's life, not pure biological parenthood.
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My daily prayer is that I can be the father that my daughters deserve.
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For anyone who wants to pick it up, it's currently $8.96 on Amazon.
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I'm late to this thread, as is often the case. However, this quote from the book which so incensed the lib and his man hating wife:
"....Dr. Meeker demonstrates that the most important factor for girls growing up into confident, well adjusted women is a strong father with conservative values. To have one, she shows, is the best protection against eating disorders, failure in school, STDs, unwed pregnancy and drug or alcohol abuse - and the best predictor of academic achievement, successful marriage, and a satisfying emotional life."
Well, too ****ing bad the doctor is correct, you idiots. A girl isn't going to think highly of herself if the first and, until her marriage, the most important man in her life is A. absent B. abusive C. a limp wristed pantywaist who won't defend himself OR her.
Common sense isn't one of your strongest suits, is it, dummies? :mental:
BTW, our relatively conservatively raised daughter (and by relatively I'm sure you would interpret it to mean we chained her in a cave on bread and water and force fed her the Bible for 18 years :whatever:) is a well adjusted adult female, making her own money, supporting herself and omg, saving herself for the right man. And if he turns out to abuse her trust, my husband will come down on him like a ****ing ton of bricks, the way my Dad did on my ex. Who was a lib, by the way, so I shoulda known better. :bird:
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Oh, I agree; it's really about the child's accepted father figure in the child's life, not pure biological parenthood.
Yes, the father figure CAN be more important than the sperm donor, and often is. The main thing, of course, is the safety, security and love a daughter AND a son finds with both parents. And if it's not at all possible, a granddad or uncle or other big brother type can assume the privileges and responsibilities of fatherhood.
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That's what democrats would call an "Ozzie and Harriet" childhood.
OK, HI5 for that :rotf:
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Since geniph didn't mention gender, I was wondering if it were to someone that the marriage is recognized in all 50 states and by the IRS.
That's what I was alluding to.
You forgot to mention the criteria that it's someone he wouldn't be put in jail over, or turned over to animal cruelty organizations. :whistling: :-)Sorry, I can be so mean sometimes. :rotf:
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My daily prayer is that I can be the father that my daughters deserve.
And the fact that your daily prayer is thus means you already ARE that kind of father. HI5
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Some women have probably done better not having had a father figure at all, than having had a really bad one.
If a girl has a strong, independent, hardworking, loving mother to teach them how to be the best that they can, and there are a lot of single mothers out there that fit this category! ...as opposed to a mother who cats around going to the bars looking for men and sleeping with any tom, dick or harry that wants them for a night, stays with a man who abuses both the mother and the children, collects permanent welfare, does drugs, ignores the girl....the girl is going to do fine, provided the crappy father had little to no influence or presence in the girl's life.
Sometimes, a mother can counteract a father's behavioral influence on the children and sometimes she can't, just as sometimes it's the father that's the positive influence instead of the mother. It's much more difficult in today's world, when judges are more likely to give both parents equal time with the children, to protect children from the less than stellar parent.
The personality and behavior of both parents have a great impact on a child - regardless of the sex of the child. The difference is that a girl will consciously, AND unconsciously, look for men that are like her father. The better the father - in all aspects of his life - the better the daughter's choices in boys/men. Women tend to retain many of personality and behavior, etc, of their mothers unless they are determined to be "different" from their mothers. It could be that because a woman's "role" in society has changed so much since WWII and even more so in the last 30 years, that external forces have had such a much greater influence on women than men. The external influences have had both positive and negative impact on women.
Men will tend to treat the women in their lives the way their father treated their mother, and/or the way their mother taught them to treat women. Men are also likely to acquire many of the traits of their fathers...good and bad...and will keep both of those traits unless some external influence - mother, other family members, friends, teachers, etc. - alter the man's behavior prior to teenage years, as most people's (male and female) personalities are formed by the time they reach 13 or 14. To change after that point in life...requires some pretty strong influences.
I would think a well written book about the influence a father has on his daughter's life and how to be a positive influence on the daughter - regardless of the political leanings of the author - would be a good thing for a man to read.
"Toots" always used me as the heavy. If punishment had to be doled out, it was up to me, so "Toots" could always play the best friend angle! Pissies me off! She gets the gravy and I get the shaft!
Ah well, it seemed to have worked out for the better. I gotta couple great kids and 5 fantastic grandkids. I spoil the shit outa them and get grief from my kids who continually tell me, "Ya never woulda let me get away with that"! Heh, it's great!
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My daily prayer is that I can be the father that my daughters deserve.
An H5 from me. I need to start praying that. I've been pretty tough and tender at the same time. My daughter is a lot like me. I know what worked with me, and I do that with The Heiress. And I'm consistent with discipline--if something my daughter did once got her in trouble, when she does it again, she gets in trouble again. She absolutely hates going to the corner. If she tries to test me, she fails. It's that simple. And I try to be nurturing when I think she needs it. Mainly, she tells me that she loves me and runs to kiss me . . . but it's obvious that she watches far too much football, as she'll turn just before she gets to me, and puts her shoulder right into my sternum. Who knew that a 35-pound child could have that much force?
She's in the "titanic threes"--and my wife is walking her up the sidewalk as I type. Gotta go!