The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thor on January 10, 2011, 04:02:39 PM
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The Cholla Jumps
by James Kelley
Jared Loughner is a product of Sheriff Dupnik’s office
This is the report that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has been dreading since the tragic event on Saturday January 8.
The sheriff has been editorializing and politicizing the event since he took the podium to report on the incident. His blaming of radio personalities and bloggers is a pre-emptive strike because Mr. Dupnik knows this tragedy lays at his feet and his office. Six people died on his watch and he could have prevented it. He needs to step up and start apologizing to the families of the victims instead of spinning this event to serve his own political agenda.
Jared Loughner, pronounced by the Sheriff as Lock-ner, saying it was the Polish pronunciation. Of course he meant Scott or Irish but that isn’t the point.
The point is he and his office have had previous contact with the alleged assailant in the past and that is how he knows how to pronounce the name.
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability.
more here (http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/)
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Shocked. No I'm not.
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It's NOT Dumpnik's fault, dammit, it's Sheriff Joe's!! Don't you know that every bad thing that happens in AZ law enforcement is Sheriff Arpaio's? Don't believe me? Ask any DUmmie. :argh:
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The Cholla Jumps
by James Kelley
Jared Loughner is a product of Sheriff Dupnik’s office
Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability.
Wow. Seems like Dupnick should stop with the politics and get back into doing his job. To protect and to serve. Maybe "if" he had done his job in the first place.
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I saw Dumpdick's first press conference after the shooting. This guy said over and over again that it was not uncommon for public figures to receive death threats. He said HE had received death threats.
I remember thinking, "Damn, he is waxing on and on about that 'not uncommon for public figures to receive death threats' meme" to the point that I figured either he was old and decrepit and wasn't thinking right (he seemed fairly nervous on-camera), or he was angry at the shooter, or he was otherwise not well.
Then he launched into his own vitriolic garbage about vitriol. Not just once, but several times during his "press conference". At one point I told the ******* TV screen to STFU and stick to the facts and keep your bullshit politics out of it, sheriff.
The shooter was known to Dumpdick - that part is pretty clear.
It'll be interesting to see what kind of blown opportunities Dumpdick had to pull the creep in and roust him, and failed to do so.
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And I see now that the sheriff has "lawyered up."
Oh my, Sheriff. You done stuck your crank in the light socket, didncha?
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Then he launched into his own vitriolic garbage about vitriol. Not just once, but several times during his "press conference". At one point I told the ******* TV screen to STFU and stick to the facts and keep your bullshit politics out of it, sheriff.
Yeah, he seemed to make it clear where he stood. More than once.
Politics should not even be muttered out of his mouth. He serves the public and should be "neutral" on the subject. Why are they asking this "sheriff" on his opinion on the shooting anyways?
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http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?action=post;quote=595150;topic=53147.50;num_replies=53;sesc=81823c516b2284616ba9b6feb9e7bc7d
He's crashing because he's a narcissist. People are a supply to him, like air, nothing more. Narcs always have the next victim(s) picked out, and move on before you realize they're compulsive liars- before their bullshit catches up to them. Obutthead pushed too hard and too fast; he broke his supply lines. The only time a narc panics is when they can't run.
But don't count him out yet- narcs always find new sources. He will pull something out of his ass, and move on to wow the world (via the UN?)
Quote
Holder seemingly clarified his message by noting the alarming rise in the number of “homegrown terrorists,†meaning “Americans who are more than willing to attack and kill their fellow citizensâ€:
The threat has changed from simply worrying about foreigners coming here, to worrying about people in the United States, American citizens—raised here, born here, and who for whatever reason, have decided that they are going to become radicalized and take up arms against the nation in which they were born.
Deja vu? This shooting is too damned convenient for me.
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http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php?action=post;quote=595150;topic=53147.50;num_replies=53;sesc=81823c516b2284616ba9b6feb9e7bc7d
Deja vu? This shooting is too damned convenient for me.
You know, I have thought since I heard about this tragedy, and watched Fox on Saturday night and yesterday, that beyond the obvious, something was not quite right here.
Dupnik, with all his spouting off....who has ever heard their local sheriff talk like this guy did/does? To be almost in a campaign mode, when he should be overseeing the investigation of this horrific crime. I recognize that the FBI have moved in, but they are only doing their part regarding Giffords, her aides, and the judge. Everyone else, is the sheriff's responsibility.
The shooter has clammed up. He isn't talking to anybody. At the very least, I would think he would be spouting his thoughts, "theories", or something. If he's as crazy as he's purported to be...he is certainly being very silent and contained.
Where are his parents? Haven't seen or heard anything of them. The kid's only 22, they must be somewhere.
I saw one of his professors from college interviewed on Fox earlier. He's a math professor. He had a campus cop come into his class and observe the shooter, because the kid made him so nervous.
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I'm convinced that Dumbdick is really Soros, sans toupee.
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/l99943-1.jpg)(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/image-1.jpg)
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FBI agents working on the Gabrielle Giffords shooting encountered trouble gaining entry to the suspect's family home Monday morning.
Family members of Jared Loughner apparently had put on 4-by-4 double-thick plywood that blocked access to the front porch of their north Tucson home.
At about 12:25 p.m., agents began banging on the blockade, yelling, "This is the FBI. Let us in."
Some agents were sent behind the house, and they were able to get inside after talking to family members.
It's not immediately clear why the Loughner family had put up the blockade, but there were reports of at least one media representative who had gotten to the yard of the family home earlier in the day. Loughner remains in custody and has an appearance in federal court later Monday.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/01/10/20110110gabrielle-giffords-shooting-suspect-family-barricade-brk10-ON.html#ixzz1AhxDyKBJ
What a coincidence that the first person to report the 'facts' is the sheriff who knows the suspect personally, is well aware of his mental instability and covered it up. Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County.
And the first words out of his mouth blame 'talk radio', the very people Loughner has been threatening.
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I thought he looked familiar...
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e385/josophist/buford.jpg)
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Sheriff Dupnik has seriously compromised his position as the top Law Enforcement Officer for Pima County, as such I'm organizing a recall petition initiative.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Recall-Sheriff-Dupnik/191322757544498
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And I see now that the sheriff has "lawyered up."
Oh my, Sheriff. You done stuck your crank in the light socket, didncha?
If you watch the interview carefully Sparky you will find that the Sherriff told the interviewer ----If you were my lawyer you would tell me not to answer some questions." I cannot find in any interview where he said he HAD a lawyer.
This Sherriff is OLD, been a cop for 50 years, he is watching his state being invaded and no one will help him or the citizens of AZ. combat the crime that comes most shockingly every day. His Cops put their life on the line 24/7 and things just get worse as the courts turn illegals arrested for murder and drug dealing back to Mexico and they come back to continue their crimes the very next day.
He must feel bad about the police not having some security for the event, but, perhaps they could not spare an extra man or two as they were all out tracking down murderers and being shot at by the gangs in the city.
Things have really changed for a LAW MAN that began their carear in the 1950's ---Laws change, crimes change, criminals change as time goes by. This LAW MAN has to be in his mid 70's or so, I would imagine at this point in his life he is so fed up with the insanity from the comunity to the administrations on the highest level, he has to put the blame on some one as to hold on to his own sanity.
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No, vesta. DUmpdick refused to enforce the immigration laws.
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnick kept his mouth shut during the great Arizona debate on locking up undocumented aliens.
Come August, when his 500 deputies become responsible for busting illegals, the sheriff's actions will speak louder than any words: His men will look the other way.
"We are not immigration officials," Dupnick vowed Thursday. "We fight crime. The state put us in this position."
"Our jails would be filled in a day," said the sheriff, whose office is about 110 miles south of Phoenix. "We would need to prosecute hundreds of people a day.
"We don't have the manpower for so many arrests, and it would cost taxpayers a lot of money in prosecutions."
"This law, it's just irresponsible," he said. "It makes them [legislators] look like racists."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/04/29
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And I see now that the sheriff has "lawyered up."
Oh my, Sheriff. You done stuck your crank in the light socket, didncha?
Reminds me of the fellow from New Orleans....
(http://www.apfn.org/apfn/Broussard.jpg)
Duplicitous Nick Crying Crocodile tears all of a sudden?? Like maybe getting ready to defend against some civil suits heading his way?
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No, vesta. DUmpdick refused to enforce the immigration laws.
I could not get your link to work, but from the information you did send, I can see his point.
The police have their hands full with citizen crimes and simply have no way to enforce and also do the job of another agency ICE.
Police in a small town in Maine or New Hampshire tried that, they began to arrest illegals for trespassing and ICE would not go along with them.
There is simply no way police can take over a job that is not part of their job description. Like it or not, he is correct that town courts and jails would be full to the brim and then, what after being found guilty, the sheriff has no authority to have the criminals deported.
This is a job for ICE and the Federal Courts to handle. I have never heard of any government agency expecting civilian police to handle any crime that has a Federal Crime name to it. Bank robbery, bombing or threats, the Man Act etc send in the FBI and they take control of the case.
It is a bag of worms Alpha, in Mass. ICE raided a factory and rounded up close to 100 illegals working there. Now the problems came in, most of the workers were woman with Anchor baby's. One could on the face of it deport the woman, but their children were American citizens and could not be deported. Who with any decency separates a child from their mother especially infants and toddlers.? What kind of mother would take home to a land of mass murders their children.?
We have come to a point where our Government must fish or cut bait. The anchor baby's law has to go give the citizenship of the mother to the child.
The Government cannot stand by while any state is invaded by people from another country and tell the freaking sheriff,' this is your problem, handle it.
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Vesta, Dupnik is also against SB 1070. I have a credible source that have people in their group that knows him personally. He simply refuses to even address illegal immigration. Their people do NOT care for him one iota. They will be calling for his resignation, officially, before much longer. The group helps the Border Patrol apprehend drug smugglers & illegals.
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That sheriff needs to be run out of town back to his million dollar ranch
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Vesta, Dupnik is also against SB 1070. I have a credible source that have people in their group that knows him personally. He simply refuses to even address illegal immigration. Their people do NOT care for him one iota. They will be calling for his resignation, officially, before much longer. The group helps the Border Patrol apprehend drug smugglers & illegals.
Thor, I have no idea what SB 1070 is, please fill me in--Thank You.
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Thor, I have no idea what SB 1070 is, please fill me in--Thank You.
look it up, bitch.
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Thor, I have no idea what SB 1070 is, please fill me in--Thank You.
SB1070 was the anti-illegal immigration law that Arizona passed. This a-Hole sheriff said he would not enforce the law.
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Dumpdick whines because he's on the firing line - a helluva lot of illegals come through his AO and he chooses to ignore the ****ing law.
SB 1070 says, in part, (and I'm paraphrasing here) that local police have the obligation of checking on the citizenship status when they've stopped an individual for some other type of offense or traffic violation or whatever.
Dumpdick is too lazy to even do that. He'd rather just ignore the law, as if it's going away.
If Dumpdick took an oath of office to enforce the law to the best of his ability, that's grounds right there to recall and/or fire his ass.
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look it up, bitch.
EXCUESSSSSS Me? I would become very angry with you but seeing as you have had to grow up with no one to teach you manors or respect for someone politely asking a question----I forgive you.
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...This Sheriff is OLD, been a cop for 50 years, he is watching his state being invaded and no one will help him or the citizens of AZ. combat the crime that comes most shockingly every day. His Cops put their life on the line 24/7 and things just get worse as the courts turn illegals arrested for murder and drug dealing back to Mexico and they come back to continue their crimes the very next day....
Vesta, this turd has made his county a "sanctuary" for the folks invading "his state". He is the very anti-thesis to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and if his deputies are putting their lives on the line when they go out to do their job, it's at least partly because he himself has set policies which make their jobs more difficult, and then tied their hands before sending 'em out.
He deserves none of the sympathy you seem willing to grant him.
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Vesta, this turd has made his county a "sanctuary" for the folks invading "his state". He is the very anti-thesis to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and if his deputies are putting their lives on the line when they go out to do their job, it's at least partly because he himself has set policies which make their jobs more difficult, and then tied their hands before sending 'em out.
He deserves none of the sympathy you seem willing to grant him.
I'm not sure that vesta "gets it", but it's a great response and worthy of a h5.
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Vesta, this turd has made his county a "sanctuary" for the folks invading "his state". He is the very anti-thesis to Sheriff Joe Arpaio, and if his deputies are putting their lives on the line when they go out to do their job, it's at least partly because he himself has set policies which make their jobs more difficult, and then tied their hands before sending 'em out.
He deserves none of the sympathy you seem willing to grant him.
Thank you DEFIANT, way up here in the frozen North it is difficult to keep track of everything going on in all 50 states. Until he appeared on TV I had never heard of the old coot, Sherriff Joe yes but not this old fella.
Kind of sad to see a 50 year carear destroyed.
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Thank you DEFIANT, way up here in the frozen North it is difficult to keep track of everything going on in all 50 states. Until he appeared on TV I had never heard of the old coot, Sherriff Joe yes but not this old fella.
Kind of sad to see a 50 year carear destroyed.
It would be sad if he wasn't doing it to himself.
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I have to say from my own experience in working similar issues, I very strongly suspected this would prove to be the case all along.
It is quite difficult to get adults involuntarity committed for more than 96 hours, and few local law enforcement officials want to screw with it or accept the costs to the county that it involves. Responding cops are normally great, the problems come up at the Sheriff/Chief of PD level. I'd add that Pima County and the City of Tucson are not some broke-ass little Alabama 'ville, and they have all the financial and administrative wherewithal to go for it in an appropriate case, and if ever one was, this looks like it was long before that nut ever started firing.
Supreme Court precedent may protect the City and the Pima Count Sheriff from financial liability for what looks like culpable negligence and dereliction, but perhaps the electorate will hold him accountable.
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I have to say from my own experience in working similar issues, I very strongly suspected this would prove to be the case all along.
It is quite difficult to get adults involuntarity committed for more than 96 hours, and few local law enforcement officials want to screw with it or accept the costs to the county that it involves. Responding cops are normally great, the problems come up at the Sheriff/Chief of PD level. I'd add that Pima County and the City of Tucson are not some broke-ass little Alabama 'ville, and they have all the financial and administrative wherewithal to go for it in an appropriate case, and if ever one was, this looks like it was long before that nut ever started firing.
Supreme Court precedent may protect the City and the Pima Count Sheriff from financial liability for what looks like culpable negligence and dereliction, but perhaps the electorate will hold him accountable.
Maybe...just maybe...this horrible shooting will get the laws changed as far as getting someone committed. Here it's only 72 hours, and there has to be proof... FIRST...that the individual is "a harm to themself or others".
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Maybe...just maybe...this horrible shooting will get the laws changed as far as getting someone committed. Here it's only 72 hours, and there has to be proof... FIRST...that the individual is "a harm to themself or others".
It is hard to get a court order if one wants to be a guardian of a mentally ill person 18 and above. Also, one has to prove that the person is an absolute danger to others.
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Hindsight is usually 20/20 and everybody's lamenting the fact that Loughner ran around showing his lunacy at every opportunity and was never "hauled in".
The community college he attended demanded that he (Loughner) see a shrink before they'd allow him back in the classroom. That was as close as he came to being institutionalized. Perhaps Loughner himself knows just how loony he is and avoided seeing that shrink figuring that they'd lock him up and throw away the key after the examination, but we'll likely never know that.
My point is, this hindsight business is wonderfully accurate. But I'm not so sure that there shouldn't be very, very rigorous controls to be put in place before involuntarily committing anybody -- even certifiable wackos like Loughner. Burden of proof has to be on the plaintiff and it had better be strong and convincing.
One of the great ironies is, at least in Michigan, involves loss of mental capacity and inability to care for oneself as that occurred to my stepfather in 2007. The VA diagnosed him with dementia and immediately hospitalized him (which is another way of saying they incarcerated him). As it was, he most certainly was a danger to himself and others and after that diagnosis, that was the prudent thing to do.
But the irony came when an attorney, working for the state of Michigan, asked my stepfather - who has been declared medically incompetent and is heading toward being declared legally incompetent as well - who he would like to have as a legal guardian.
My stepdad had it in his mind that my sister and I - his stepchildren - wanted his house, his van, his property. This in spite of the fact we both lived in differing states. So he told the attorney he'd prefer to have somebody "with no vested interested" or a "3rd party" as a legal guardian.
The judge accepted the wishes of an mentally incompetent man versus family members - albeit stepchildren - who were there are more than willing to sort the legal issues out.
My sister and I went to court and the judge wouldn't even speak to us.
My stepdad went to a nursing home in Detroit.
Less than a year later, he was dead at the age of 79.
There is NO doubt in my mind he died much earlier than he should've, all because the state got involved and sent him to a place that was little more than a death factory.
Sorry for the derail, but this business about declaring people incompetent strikes a nerve.
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With processing, judicial approval, admin overhead, transportation, etc., 72 hours 'Under observation' usually works out to 96 hours actually in custody. Just sayin'.
Now far be it from me to advocate for anything on firearms restrictions, but there is a gaping loophole in that it's illegal to sell guns to crazy people, but other than being under an outstanding restraining order or direct observation of weird behavior, there really isn't a solid reporting system to tell the seller to know he's dealing with a bona fide lunatic.
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With processing, judicial approval, admin overhead, transportation, etc., 72 hours 'Under observation' usually works out to 96 hours actually in custody. Just sayin'.
Now far be it from me to advocate for anything on firearms restrictions, but there is a gaping loophole in that it's illegal to sell guns to crazy people, but other than being under an outstanding restraining order or direct observation of weird behavior, there really isn't a solid reporting system to tell the seller to know he's dealing with a bona fide lunatic.
I wasn't thinking about going from jail to a mental health facility.
I was involved with 2 acquaintances who trying to get their kids into a facility.
One had a kid- he was 17 at the time, who was out of control, had totaled a car, dropped out of high school, and she was afraid he would hurt her, himself and maybe others. The kid had been out of control for years, but got worse after they found his father dead on the family room couch, New Year's Day morning, from a heart attack. :( Because he hadn't actually harmed himself, or anyone else....his mom couldn't get him any help. Somehow, the kid got his act together, has been in the Army for a couple of years, is married and has a little boy...ran into him and his wife at the grocery a couple of months ago, and he seems normal!!! Who would have ever thought?
The other one was a 15yo old girl. Her mom worked for M. I helped her mom get her into a facility. She was a "cutter". She disappeared one night, and when they found her about 36 hours later, she was threatening to kill herself. It took us half a day at the facility, but they did take her, for 72 hours. I don't know what has happened to her, as they live about an hour away. Last I heard, a couple of years ago, the girl had dropped out of school and was living with some boy and his family. :(
Of the two kids....the boy is the one that I would have thought would wind up incarcerated for something bad.
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Don't believe I mentioned 'Jail,' and minors are a bit different deal (Which Loughner wasn't, and minors can't buy guns under the '68 law either) but 19 times out of 20, cops are the responders that have to deal with out-of-control adults and so their chain of command has a lot to say about where the case goes.
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Don't believe I mentioned 'Jail,' and minors are a bit different deal (Which Loughner wasn't, and minors can't buy guns under the '68 law either) but 19 times out of 20, cops are the responders that have to deal with out-of-control adults and so their chain of command has a lot to say about where the case goes.
You didn't...and I probably shouldn't have said "jail" as I'm not sure where an individual is taken by the police. Since the state/county run mental health facility - was sort of shut down, several years ago, I don't know where "out of control" adults are taken. Maybe to a hospital? We have 4 hospitals here with locked down psych floors.
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Thor, I have no idea what SB 1070 is, please fill me in--Thank You.
:google:
look it up, bitch.
Dutch: :hi5: