The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on January 05, 2011, 12:30:57 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x120192
GSLevel9 (888 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:04 PM
Original message
Explain the logic of the estate tax.
Just curious and I'm open minded on the topic.
I strongly support fair taxation. I have no problem with Clinton era income taxes and maybe a even a bit more. I believe that a fair tax is the price for living in an environment that allows you to amass your personal fortune.
Having said that...
If a man or woman starts a small business, let's say a Dry Cleaning Shop... and every few years they expand and open a new store. After 40-50 years they have a 20 stores valued at 500k each. For 40-50 years they have paid fair taxes on every penny of their income, they've paid witholding taxes for employees and workers comp. They've provided health insurance for employees and have been model citizens in their community.
They have built a 10 million dollar "empire" for their heirs. Upon their death, what right does a government have to take the fruit of this families hard work?
If you've already paid taxes on income... and you put that income in the bank... how can it be taxed again after they pass on?
I know that some will say "the value of the estate" as it is passed to an heir should be considered "income". I don't think that's right and I believe it's all the product of the greed of the government pig. I think the estate tax is wrong... and I see nothing wrong with 50% marginal rates on income.
He won't make it to 1K
oldhippie (269 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's a way to take wealth from the rich .....
... and re-distribute it to us for things we want or like. Isn't that what we're all about? What more logic do you need?
Even if the low poster meant it as sarcasm, the majority of the DUmmy'ss believe this.
RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Lots of arguments on that.
First off the people say they earned the money, that is the idea within the system of how you make money, and the concept you mention is an example of that.
However there children did not earn it, and society has a obligation to all in society. So they should be able to give some to their children, but some should be taken by society to correct the error of imbalance of wages caused by capitalism.
And far worse now, since it is also monopoly capitalism by collusion or cabal.
So because the system sends money to the top out of proportion to actual work done, and because society should see a child born in poverty equal to someone born in wealth. Society should help correct the flaws in the society.
Complete fairness would be no inheritance at all, but that takes the right for a parent to share with children things they saved up over life. So some estate tax makes sense, and some inheritance makes sense.
Basically estate tax should break up consolidations from imbalance of distribution.
You better hope we don't take over. You would be the 1st against the wall.
GSLevel9 (888 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. well written and clear, thanks.
But it still doesn't address the core issue. If I earn a post-taxation dollar, is it really mine? Do I have complete control of that dollar? Or am I holding that dollar temporarily? Because if something is REALLY MINE then I can do what I please with it.
Let's say I won the Mega Millions last night... and I want to buy a Picasso painting.
I go and spend 100 million dollars of my post-taxation money on a painting. It hangs on the wall in my house, I like it. I want it to remain in my house to be enjoyed by all the future generations of "Smith's"...
That painting is MINE. I may do with it as I please. I can throw it in the fireplace in a drunken stupor, I can allow my granddaughter to fingerpaint on it.
SO after my death, does my control over it also die?
It's kind of like saying "All material wealth belongs to the state, certain individuals temporarily hold the wealth but all wealth must revert to the state."
Our constitutional principles are built around the concept of private property and ownership, I can't support an estate tax as it's an attack on the definition of private property.
The stone carvers phone is ringing.
Sal Minella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Based on the premise of "You can't take it with you,"
an estate, by being inherited, becomes "income" for the next generation, and should be taxed as income.
The son does not necessarily deserve the benefits of the hard work and pecuniary habits of his father, any more than a child deserves to serve out a prison sentence passed on a parent.
Money cycles all the time and it's taxed again and again as it circulates* -- it does not stop being taxable just because it's been heaped up somewhere by a rich man. When money changes hands (by death, by commerce, whatever) it needs to be taxed to provide the wherewithal to keep infrastructures running (fire departments, schools, hospitals, libraries).
I can understand why a rich person says "Mine mine mine" and does not want any portion of his beloved wealth used to pay taxes when the bulk of it is passed down a generation, but I believe it was Thomas Jefferson himself who cautioned against letting too much wealth become accumulated in the hands of too few persons.
I'm sure Jefferson would be horrified at the rich/poor abyss we have at present.
The best way to avoid paying estate tax would be
(a) figure out a way to take it with you or
(b) don't go.
The stupid is strong with this one.
slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's a way of preventing people getting large sums of money that they didn't earn...
...by giving it to other people who also didn't earn it.
A looooong suspected mole.
TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Greed of the Government Pig"? Is that what I'm reading?
Why am I reading this on DU?
Uh-oh. The jig is up.
New campfire.
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Remember when we used to fight Communists? Whatever happened to that concept? They still ask people wanting to immigrate if they're a Communist or have ever been associated with a Communist or a Communist Party. I saw this on "The Naturalized".
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Remember when we used to fight Communists? Whatever happened to that concept? They still ask people wanting to immigrate if they're a Communist or have ever been associated with a Communist or a Communist Party. I saw this on "The Naturalized".
Interesting topic and just in time for the news today on Fox.
Man murdered his mother-in-law and went to prison. His wife for some reason did not divorce him and when she died he now wants to collect her estate that came from her dead mother.----By law he can not inherit money from the woman he murdered BUT can inherit from his wife the daughter of the dead woman. Good size estate almost half a million.
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I guess the inherited "income" of the Kennedys, Rockefellers, Soros, etc., doesn't count.
:thatsright: DUH! Of course not!
THEY'RE ALL DEMONRATS! :banghead:
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-05-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. It isn't the family's hard work.
The hard work that the kids did was already compensated. Just like any other worker.
What is it about the words "fair" and "tax" that they are obliged to be together in every sentence?
Government (us) have the right to tax anything we want. We have no more or less right to tax estates than we do the purchase of a pack of cigarettes. We choose to do it for the same reasons: we need the money, and tax policy is used to encourage socially positive behavior. Aristocracy isn't a good basis on which to build a society.
Why is it acceptable to tax the income of the minimum wage workers that built their empire, but not the unearned income that the heirs get when dad dies?
Well, it's not likely you're going to get your grubby paws on it, because anybody worth their salt would have found ways around this crap years ago. Go look under another rock for your pony.
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x120192
He won't make it to 1K OK, who's mole is this?
Even if the low poster meant it as sarcasm, the majority of the DUmmy'ss believe this. It's their holy grail!
You better hope we don't take over. You would be the 1st against the wall. And I would be the first in line to volunteer to shoot your worthless ass!
The stone carvers phone is ringing. 5....4.....3.....2.....1...PIZZA!
The stupid is strong with this one. also the tyranny! Hugo would just luv, luv, luv this asshat!
A looooong suspected mole. wink, wink!
Uh-oh. The jig is up. I'll have a Meat Lovers please!
New campfire.
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WOW! the Moles are totally coming out of the closet there :lmao:
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Money from a life insurance is not taxable, correct? Say that Bill Gates were to take $20B and buy a policy worth $19,999,999,999.00 to his designated beneficiary , would that beneficiary have to pay taxes? Of course the insurance company would have to pay taxes on profits, so he might not get that high of a return, or his beneficiary wouldn't, but could an insurance policy with an ultra high premium and benefit work to get around inheritance tax laws?
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So, let me pose a question to you DUmbasses, you grow up in the family home, on 5 acres of land. This is a home that was treasured by you and your siblings. You kids are only 20, 21, and 22 when your parents meet their tragic and untimely death. You ****in' morons think it's ok to come in and take the home, selling it off, and giving you 40% of the proceeds?
It's the SAME ****ING THING! Personal property is personal property. Without the right to it, this nation is no longer a Republic, but some f'n Communistic dictatorship that I'll fight to the death against. Wealth, cars, homes, hell, a f'n hairdryer is ALL personal property and once taxes are paid on it, you Communists can keep your grubby f'n hands off it. :censored:
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The problem with these idiots is they see only two sides to the nation. People with 50 billion and people living paycheck to paycheck. Not that that SHOULD matter, but that is, IMO, how those dense baboons think of it.
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So, let me pose a question to you DUmbasses, you grow up in the family home, on 5 acres of land. This is a home that was treasured by you and your siblings. You kids are only 20, 21, and 22 when your parents meet their tragic and untimely death. You ****in' morons think it's ok to come in and take the home, selling it off, and giving you 40% of the proceeds?
It's the SAME ****ING THING! Personal property is personal property. Without the right to it, this nation is no longer a Republic, but some f'n Communistic dictatorship that I'll fight to the death against. Wealth, cars, homes, hell, a f'n hairdryer is ALL personal property and once taxes are paid on it, you Communists can keep your grubby f'n hands off it. :censored:
The one thing that drives me nutz more than any other single thing is these asshats don't understand the meaning of assets! Just because I have a $60,000 tractor in the barn, doesn't mean that my kids are gonna have $21,000 to pay an inheritance tax on it! Without the tractor, ya might as well just sell the Damn Ranch! It will be impossible to plant and harvest 80 acres of hay and grain in order to maintain the livestock every winter!
So my kids can no longer support, what they have contributed to, for over 10 years! They will have to sell everything, and most likely for 10¢ on the dollar, 'cause horses and mules aren't exactly some super dooper investment nowadays, and will then take it in the shorts just so some useless prick can get ****in' food stamps and welfare without ever havin' to get off his fat dead ass!
ETA:
I don't think so!
I'll ****in' shoot the animals, burn the land and put a stick of TNT into the fuel tank of my tractor before the primitives ever see a ****in' dime!
Ya ever thinkk of that, ya ****in' pricks????
What are ya goin' to do, arrest me for destroyin' my own shit just because you don't get your share? You will then get the next lesson!
Let's just say it involves the Second Amendment and leave it at that!!
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Your story isn't one that's embellished either. Happened to a beachside campground in NE Florida. The same family had owned it for over half a century. It was a family-oriented location right on the beach and fairly inexpensive. When the elders died, the kids had to sell off this pristine vacation spot to pay the taxes. It's probably in the hands of damn "evil" developers the DUmbasses hate so much with Condos all over the place catering to the rich, that the DUmmies also love to hate.
There IS no logic in liberalism OR progressivism. ....I'm having a hard time trying to distinguish between the two these days.
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Your story isn't one that's embellished either. Happened to a beachside campground in NE Florida. The same family had owned it for over half a century. It was a family-oriented location right on the beach and fairly inexpensive. When the elders died, the kids had to sell off this pristine vacation spot to pay the taxes. It's probably in the hands of damn "evil" developers the DUmbasses hate so much with Condos all over the place catering to the rich, that the DUmmies also love to hate.
There IS no logic in liberalism OR progressivism. ....I'm having a hard time trying to distinguish between the two these days.
liberalism, progressivism, socialism, communism, totalitarianism, all the same in my dictionary!
Not a single one starts out with a basis of "freedom"!
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http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/050902/opi_9354869.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/687191/posts
Read that bullshit. It'll get your blood boiling.
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Money from a life insurance is not taxable, correct? Say that Bill Gates were to take $20B and buy a policy worth $19,999,999,999.00 to his designated beneficiary , would that beneficiary have to pay taxes? Of course the insurance company would have to pay taxes on profits, so he might not get that high of a return, or his beneficiary wouldn't, but could an insurance policy with an ultra high premium and benefit work to get around inheritance tax laws?
Life insurance proceeds and inheritances are specifically excluded from being considered income to the recipient under the INCOME TAX laws (Section 100 or 101 of the IRC, as best I recall), the DUmmies saying it is 'Income' are completely ignorant of US tax law. For inherited property, the recipient isn't even taxed on any appreciation in value since the decedent acquired the property as income, until such time as the recipient disposes of it, and then it is a capital gain (99.9% of the time a long-term one, of course).
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Life insurance proceeds and inheritances are specifically excluded from being considered income to the recipient under the INCOME TAX laws (Section 100 or 101 of the IRC, as best I recall), the DUmmies saying it is 'Income' are completely ignorant of US tax law. For inherited property, the recipient isn't even taxed on any appreciation in value since the decedent acquired the property as income, until such time as the recipient disposes of it, and then it is a capital gain (99.9% of the time a long-term one, of course).
Problem with that is, the land ain't worth much if ya don't have the "assets" to take advantage of it! My tractor and all my tools are considered in the inheritance tax! So is the livestock!
They will be a big lump of melted steel and cremated bone before one of these asshats gets a cut!
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What the DUmmies forget is that the truly wealthy have set up trusts so that their estates aren't taxed.
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Life insurance proceeds and inheritances are specifically excluded from being considered income to the recipient under the INCOME TAX laws (Section 100 or 101 of the IRC, as best I recall), the DUmmies saying it is 'Income' are completely ignorant of US tax law. For inherited property, the recipient isn't even taxed on any appreciation in value since the decedent acquired the property as income, until such time as the recipient disposes of it, and then it is a capital gain (99.9% of the time a long-term one, of course).
If this is so, whats the problem.? Smartest people I know were the children of immigrants that had just a few bucks in the bank, the rest was stashed under the floor boards or in the attic eves of their homes. The really smart ones placed all their cash out in the yard under their Virgin Mary statue. This becomes a gold mine for to days owners of a family home that removes the statue and digs around it.
People buy these homes and just remove the religious ornaments and never know of the life savings buried under them.
One has to remember that the diary's of Ann Frank would never have been found as they were buried in a yard and accidentally came to light.
The old stuff your money in the mattress came from the depression when the banks went bust. When a person dies their safety deposit box is opened and any money in there is taxed even if the taxes have been paid.
Speaking of safe deposit boxes, they are not as safe as we think. Mom received a huge planter of flowers from her bank a few years ago and explained that they had LOST her information and had to open the box to find out who owned it. WTF, I thought one had to get a court order to open a box that rent was paid on. Mom was then in her mid 80's and was oh so happy to get the flowers----I went ballistic but could do nothing without her approval.
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Are you drinking?
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Speaking of safe deposit boxes, they are not as safe as we think. Mom received a huge planter of flowers from her bank a few years ago and explained that they had LOST her information and had to open the box to find out who owned it. WTF, I thought one had to get a court order to open a box that rent was paid on. Mom was then in her mid 80's and was oh so happy to get the flowers----I went ballistic but could do nothing without her approval.
Uh, if they didn't know who the box belonged to, who exactly were they going to serve the "court order" to?
Do do do doo, Do do do dooo!
Are you drinking?
Ding, ding.......ding, ding, ding, ding!
We have a winnah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who's got the Kewpie doll?
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oldhippie (269 posts) Wed Jan-05-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's a way to take wealth from the rich .....
... and re-distribute it to us for things we want or like. Isn't that what we're all about? What more logic do you need?
That might be your wet dream, but reality is the government just pisses most of it away and hands you the chump change, knowing that "free money" is the best way to purchase your vote.
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oldhippie (269 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's a way to take wealth from the rich .....
... and re-distribute it to us for things we want or like. Isn't that what we're all about? What more logic do you need?
Yup - government-sanctioned theft is what you liberals are all about.
At least he's a honest thief, but an advocate of the robber barons nonetheless.
I guess the inherited "income" of the Kennedys, Rockefellers, Soros, etc., doesn't count.
:thatsright: DUH! Of course not!
THEY'RE ALL DEMONRATS! :banghead:
Indeed. The massive fortunes of leftist Democrats are never questioned by these armchair communists. It's OK for them to be filthy rich and leave untaxed assets to their children, because they're leftists.
It's only conservatives and regular people that should be taxed repeatedly.
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Money from a life insurance is not taxable, correct? Say that Bill Gates were to take $20B and buy a policy worth $19,999,999,999.00 to his designated beneficiary , would that beneficiary have to pay taxes? Of course the insurance company would have to pay taxes on profits, so he might not get that high of a return, or his beneficiary wouldn't, but could an insurance policy with an ultra high premium and benefit work to get around inheritance tax laws?
Reminds me of a strategy I heard at a retirement seminar many years ago (DOD CSRS situation). Rather than taking survivor benefit for the wife you take out a life policy. She gets the whole thing rather than a reduced percentage of your retirement and can leave any unused part to her survivors. You fund the insurance policy with the money you would have lost to taking the survivor benefit (survivor benefit reduces your pension).
I also remember discussing using insurance to fund a trust at the broker not that long ago with money which had built up in a converted GI Life policy. It really helps if you are a healthy non-smoker when you go for life insurance, kind of like health insurance.
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What the DUmmies forget is that the truly wealthy have set up trusts so that their estates aren't taxed.
Trusts are not just for the rich and famous and go a long way to speeding up the process of settling an estate. Wills, trusts, and insurance are things which are should be done right.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Lots of arguments on that.
First off the people say they earned the money, that is the idea within the system of how you make money, and the concept you mention is an example of that.
However there children did not earn it, and society has a obligation to all in society. So they should be able to give some to their children, but some should be taken by society to correct the error of imbalance of wages caused by capitalism.
And far worse now, since it is also monopoly capitalism by collusion or cabal.
So because the system sends money to the top out of proportion to actual work done, and because society should see a child born in poverty equal to someone born in wealth. Society should help correct the flaws in the society.
Complete fairness would be no inheritance at all, but that takes the right for a parent to share with children things they saved up over life. So some estate tax makes sense, and some inheritance makes sense.
Basically estate tax should break up consolidations from imbalance of distribution.
There's their problem right there. Equality is measured in dollars. Greedy and superficial. Typical.
Cindie
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There's their problem right there. Equality is measured in dollars. Greedy and superficial. Typical.
Cindie
Just imagine how they feel about the old expression, "born with a silver spoon"?
Must give 'em nightmares! At least I hope it does! snicker
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Convoluted logic. DUmmies feel that the offspring of the wealthy don't deserve the acquired wealth of their parents, but "society" does?
That's so ****ed.
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Trusts are not just for the rich and famous and go a long way to speeding up the process of settling an estate. Wills, trusts, and insurance are things which are should be done right.
Oh, yeah...my grandmother had one, and my dad set one up after my mom died. Everything in his stock portfolio goes to my kids in a trust, and I get the house and other material goods. I'm actually glad he did it that way, it's less for me to worry about when he does eventually go.
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Just imagine how they feel about the old expression, "born with a silver spoon"?
Must give 'em nightmares! At least I hope it does! snicker
Lazy DUmmies wouldn't like my silver spoon.
Dad: "See this silver spoon? It's used for eating. Want to use it for eating? That 3 acres isn't gonna cut itself. When you're done there, get in the house and do the laundry. Food and your silver spoon will be waiting for you."
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Problem with that is, the land ain't worth much if ya don't have the "assets" to take advantage of it! My tractor and all my tools are considered in the inheritance tax! So is the livestock!
They will be a big lump of melted steel and cremated bone before one of these asshats gets a cut!
"Inheritance tax" is state, not Federal. There isn't any Federal inheritance tax. "Estate tax" (Which is Federal) is a whole different thing than "Inheritiance tax."
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DUmmy logic:
Jefferson, "The separation of church and state..." Jefferson is a certified genius!!!
Jefferson, "To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father’s has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association—the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." Jefferson is an idiot, right-wing teabagger!!!!!11!11!!11
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"Inheritance tax" is state, not Federal. There isn't any Federal inheritance tax. "Estate tax" (Which is Federal) is a whole different thing than "Inheritiance tax."
Net Value of Property
Once all the deductions have been taken from the gross estate, the remaining balance is considered the net value of the property - or the inheritance tax basis. To calculate whether nor not any inheritance tax is due; the net value of the property must be subtracted from the inheritance tax credits appearing in the tables below. If the net estate is larger than the tax exclusion, then the federal income taxes due can be found on the standard tax brackets or tax rate tables published by the IRS.
What ever you say, Tank...... (http://www.money-zine.com/Financial-Planning/Tax-Shelter/Federal-Inheritance-Tax/)
ETA:
Granted they may not call it an inheritance tax, but it sure as hell is what I call it! Me being of sound mind and body of course, unlike our gubmint!
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Oh, yeah...my grandmother had one, and my dad set one up after my mom died. Everything in his stock portfolio goes to my kids in a trust, and I get the house and other material goods. I'm actually glad he did it that way, it's less for me to worry about when he does eventually go.
My mom's parent's have set up a trust just recently. They are not rich at all. I'm pretty sure my dad's parent's have one that was set up years ago as well. I believe they set it up the same time they did their will.
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My mom's parent's have set up a trust just recently. They are not rich at all. I'm pretty sure my dad's parent's have one that was set up years ago as well. I believe they set it up the same time they did their will.
It actually started with my grandparents, who were fairly well off. After my grandfather died, everything was put into a living trust for my grandmother-it actually ended up paying for her end of life care which would have bankrupted my dad and his siblings.
My dad is by no means wealthy, but he received a crapton of Exxon stock when his mother died-at one point the value of that stock was almost $1M. He is hoping that it will help us pay for our kids to go to college, or at least make it not as much of a financial burden on us. I have to say, I appreciate that! :)
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It actually started with my grandparents, who were fairly well off. After my grandfather died, everything was put into a living trust for my grandmother-it actually ended up paying for her end of life care which would have bankrupted my dad and his siblings.
My dad is by no means wealthy, but he received a crapton of Exxon stock when his mother died-at one point the value of that stock was almost $1M. He is hoping that it will help us pay for our kids to go to college, or at least make it not as much of a financial burden on us. I have to say, I appreciate that! :)
That is just not FAIR. Your kids should have to suffer under the crushing debt of student loans just like every one else. [/DU mode] :tongue:
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So, let me pose a question to you DUmbasses, you grow up in the family home, on 5 acres of land. This is a home that was treasured by you and your siblings. You kids are only 20, 21, and 22 when your parents meet their tragic and untimely death. You ****in' morons think it's ok to come in and take the home, selling it off, and giving you 40% of the proceeds?
It's the SAME ****ING THING! Personal property is personal property. Without the right to it, this nation is no longer a Republic, but some f'n Communistic dictatorship that I'll fight to the death against. Wealth, cars, homes, hell, a f'n hairdryer is ALL personal property and once taxes are paid on it, you Communists can keep your grubby f'n hands off it. :censored:
Bingo.
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It's my family's money. We made it. It's ours. They passed it down to me, and I will pass it down to my children .
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It's my family's money. We made it. It's ours. They passed it down to me, and I will pass it down to my children .
And they can pry it outa my cold dead hands right along with the damn gun they don't want me to have!
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Remember when we used to fight Communists? Whatever happened to that concept? They still ask people wanting to immigrate if they're a Communist or have ever been associated with a Communist or a Communist Party. I saw this on "The Naturalized".
McCarthy tried to warn us. For that matter so did Nikita Krushchev, though his was more prediction than warning. Of course the commie fellow travelers in the media ridiculed the idea of a "Red Menace" until it became nothing more than the punchline to a joke. Ridiculed the same way Conservatism and Christianity are now by comedians, talk show hosts and the press across the country on a daily basis.
Now we're left dealing with the heirs of that ideology - the DUmmies and all of their ilk. It hasn't helped that the Republicans Party has been led by gutless and corrupt career pols more interested in popularity and political correctness than the state of the country. I can only hope this Congress has the fire in the belly to pay more than lip service to conservative ideals. We will soon see.
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That is just not FAIR. Your kids should have to suffer under the crushing debt of student loans just like every one else. [/DU mode] :tongue:
As it is, I will be paying off my own college loans until I die. Make you feel any better??? :tongue:
Seriously, I keep hoping my kids will either 1) want to go to an in-state university or 2) get a scholarship (or both!) so that their trust fund money can help them once they are out of school, rather than pay for it.
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Jan-05-11 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Lots of arguments on that.
First off the people say they earned the money, that is the idea within the system of how you make money, and the concept you mention is an example of that.
However there children did not earn it, and society has a obligation to all in society. So they should be able to give some to their children, but some should be taken by society to correct the error of imbalance of wages caused by capitalism.
And far worse now, since it is also monopoly capitalism by collusion or cabal.
So because the system sends money to the top out of proportion to actual work done, and because society should see a child born in poverty equal to someone born in wealth. Society should help correct the flaws in the society.
Complete fairness would be no inheritance at all, but that takes the right for a parent to share with children things they saved up over life. So some estate tax makes sense, and some inheritance makes sense.
Basically estate tax should break up consolidations from imbalance of distribution.
I have a real problem with that statement. I have seen a ton of family businesses that have the children working alongside their parents to build it up.
My grandfather started an electrical contracting business. About two years in my uncle joined him. They both built it to what it is today. So you can take that "they didn't earn it" crap and shove it. Not all people that inherit things from their parents are Paris Hiltons or Kennedy's.
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I have a real problem with that statement. I have seen a ton of family businesses that have the children working alongside their parents to build it up.
My grandfather started an electrical contracting business. About two years in my uncle joined him. They both built it to what it is today. So you can take that "they didn't earn it" crap and shove it. Not all people that inherit things from their parents are Paris Hiltons or Kennedy's.
Does anyone stop to consider the problem of Black Americans children? And I am not about Jessie Jackon's son who (IIRC) managed to benefit from the exploitation of a beer distributorship by his dad.
Blacks suffer more than whites from the in ability to build generational wealth. There may have been articles posted here or on the dump, I don't remember.
America's Longest War, the war on poverty marches on. If blacks ever figure out how LBJ and the democrats sacraficed whole generations of their families lives and wealth in this failed cause they would string them up by their heels all across this land. Yet another reason why public ecucation is so important to the democrats. Keep 'em angry, baffled, and stupid. Makes 'em easier to control.
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What ever you say, Tank...... (http://www.money-zine.com/Financial-Planning/Tax-Shelter/Federal-Inheritance-Tax/)
ETA:
Granted they may not call it an inheritance tax, but it sure as hell is what I call it! Me being of sound mind and body of course, unlike our gubmint!
Read the second paragraph at that link and you will see the distinction. The first paragraph seriously misuses the terms explained correctly in the second, then the rest of the article goes on to mix and match state and federal tax issues with wild abandon. Whoever wrote it has a lot of technical bits and pieces correct and either doesn't understand them or is a truly shitty writer.
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Read the second paragraph at that link and you will see the distinction. The first paragraph seriously misuses the terms explained correctly in the second, then the rest of the article goes on to mix and match state and federal tax issues with wild abandon. Whoever wrote it has a lot of technical bits and pieces correct and either doesn't understand them or is a truly shitty writer.
I'll go with shitty writer, but the fact remains, a tax is a tax, and it is on my estate that has already been taxed! Call it an inheritance tax, call it an estate tax! Same ****in' thing, a tax on money and assets I have already paid tax on!
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The differences are still important, Al. You can write to your Representative and Senators for the rest of your life and they can't do a frickin' thing about inheritance tax, but they CAN dump the estate tax. The converse is true on the state side. I am assuming you'd actually like to do something about getting it changed instead of just blowing off steam, of course.
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The differences are still important, Al. You can write to your Representative and Senators for the rest of your life and they can't do a frickin' thing about inheritance tax, but they CAN dump the estate tax. The converse is true on the state side. I am assuming you'd actually like to do something about getting it changed instead of just blowing off steam, of course.
I'm no DUmmie! I have already taken steps to make sure they ain't gettin' a dime from me or my kids! Have also made sure it will follow for generations unless they **** it up!
What pisses me off is that I have to go thru the expense of protecting what is mine from the damn government! Many people are completely ignorant of what happens with your shit once you pass! If guys like me don't educate them, who will?
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You give 'em Hell, Al!
:-)
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You give 'em Hell, Al!
:-)
In the words of my illustrious Father, "Trust Me"!
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McCarthy tried to warn us. For that matter so did Nikita Krushchev, though his was more prediction than warning. Of course the commie fellow travelers in the media ridiculed the idea of a "Red Menace" until it became nothing more than the punchline to a joke. Ridiculed the same way Conservatism and Christianity are now by comedians, talk show hosts and the press across the country on a daily basis.
Now we're left dealing with the heirs of that ideology - the DUmmies and all of their ilk. It hasn't helped that the Republicans Party has been led by gutless and corrupt career pols more interested in popularity and political correctness than the state of the country. I can only hope this Congress has the fire in the belly to pay more than lip service to conservative ideals. We will soon see.
Great post Dandi! H5. Since you mentioned Krushchev and the communism and how the comedians/talk show hosts and press mock conservativism and Christianity, this video is very proper and should be listened to be all.
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ7LcplfkgY[/youtube]
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Great post Dandi! H5. Since you mentioned Krushchev and the communism and how the comedians/talk show hosts and press mock conservativism and Christianity, this video is very proper and should be listened to be all.
And to think everyone told him he was full of shit! Wonder what the powers that be think now?