The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on January 01, 2011, 08:22:15 AM
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note from franksolich: during the past several weeks, lots and lots of lurking primitives have been reading this thread from January 1, 2011, shortly after the top primitive of 2010, the Die alte Sau, was revealed.
Probably the primitives are trying to learn the rules, so as to manipulate the rules to their own personal advantages.
As of now, there have been no official rule changes for the top primitives of 2011, but it's reasonable to assume there will be some, as the awards have gotten rather complicated lately. August 8, 2011
There aren't any yet, and won't be until my distinguished partner Mr. Wiggum gets back from the Rose Bowl, but I'm soliciting suggested changes for nominations and votes for the top primitives of this current new year.
The only rule change that had been made for 2010 was that the Willie Award was decided by the common wisdom of the people, rather than by Mr. Wiggum and franksolich. Otherwise, 2010 was pretty much the same rules as in 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, and 2005.
It's been suggested that some primitives become stale after x many years, and so perhaps after a particular primitive's been on the ballot for so long, the primitive shouldn't be eligible any more.
This is already the rule for the Willie and the Annie, which are one-time awards; the "TomInTib" primitive, the Bostonian Drunkard, Alan Grayson, the bobbling primitive, and the bouncing primitive will no longer be eligible for selection for those awards they won in 2009 and 2010.
I dunno if limiting the number of times a primitive can be nominated for the top twenty primitives, though, is a good idea. After all, some primitives, such as Doug's stupid ex-wife, are timeless.
I think that popular choice naturally weeds out the old, stale, boring primitives--look for example, at the Bostonian Drunkard, who wasn't even nominated in 2009 for anything, and not nominated for a top primitive in 2010. To me, it seems best to just let things happen naturally, interest in the old, stale, boring primitives just naturally withering away.
But I'm not the final arbiter of the rules; that's done by the common wisdom of the people.
There's also been a suggestion that the list of primitives is too long (although for 2010, it was actually shorter than for 2009), with too many PonP with whom voters are unfamiliar.
I myself am sort of "for" limiting the nominations, but have no idea how to limit them, what criteria to use.
There has been a suggestion that members of the general public also members of left-wing message boards (such as Pitcairn Island) not be allowed to nominate and vote, because that might, or might not, bias the results.
These sorts of voters overwhelmingly voted, of course, for the Barack 0bama zombies, but an analysis shows that even if they had been excluded from voting, the Barack 0bama zombies would've ended up in the top ten anyway. (And as of today, January 1, 2011, it looks highly likely the Barack 0bama zombies are going to end up in this year's top primitives again, perhaps even higher.)
As far as franksolich is concerned, he'd like to have, if possible, the whole general American public vote on the top primitives, and it does say something when both the left and the middle agree.
But again, I'm not the final arbiter of the rules; the collective common wisdom of the people advise and counsel Mr. Wiggum and franksolich, who of course are sensitive to public opinion.
However, and this is not meant unkindly, since Mr. Wiggum and franksolich run the show, they have the royal veto, the last word. (The royal veto, by the way, has been used only three times since 1707, and so in this case, it's not likely Mr. Wiggum and franksolich are going to go counter to the wishes of the people.) The royal veto is absolute, and final.
So.....advise and counsel.
Are there any rules for the top primitives, that should be changed for 2011?
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If it's not too much trouble maybe add:
Newbie of the Year Award?
Lifetime Achievement Award?
Maybe an award called the YAM? basically an award to someone we think is a mole, YAM=You're A Mole.
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The only problem I see has little to do with the process used during the Primitive Award Ceremony, and more to do with the island itself.
Skin's island is sinking under the collective weight of a few dozen egos, leaving less room for other primitives to inhabit it.
There are very few new islanders who join the rankings of the PoP, making for a fairly standardized list of contenders, most of whom will always end up with an award at the end of the year.
*Today is only 1/1/11 - and I already know at least 2/3rds of who will be next years winners - and so do everyone else. *
I feel we need to be more proactive as 'talent scouts' and work to raise appreciation of up-and-coming primitives by the masses- to overturn some new rocks, hopefully discovering a few new specimens in the process. That should help to 'shake up' the Top DUmmies of 2011.
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If it's not too much trouble maybe add:
Newbie of the Year Award?
Lifetime Achievement Award?
Maybe an award called the YAM? basically an award to someone we think is a mole, YAM=You're A Mole.
Newbie of the Year is well worth considering.
We already have the Lifetime Achievement Award, the Willie.
The mole award is an interesting idea, too.
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Newbie of the Year is well worth considering.
We already have the Lifetime Achievement Award, the Willie.
The mole award is an interesting idea, too.
Ooops, I forgot about the Willie.
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Ooops, I forgot about the Willie.
Any suggested criteria for the newbie award?
A primitive actually new on Skins's island, or a primitive who's been around for a while, but newly discovered by the DUmpster?
I suspect the newbie and mole awards will come into being for 2011, but the ideas need developed a little further.
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Any suggested criteria for the newbie award?
A primitive actually new on Skins's island, or a primitive who's been around for a while, but newly discovered by the DUmpster?
I suspect the newbie and mole awards will come into being for 2011, but the ideas need developed a little further.
Umm, I don't know yet LOL.
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Any suggested criteria for the newbie award?
A primitive actually new on Skins's island, or a primitive who's been around for a while, but newly discovered by the DUmpster?
I suspect the newbie and mole awards will come into being for 2011, but the ideas need developed a little further.
I like this idea -- as it will make it more likely that new talent will be discovered..
My suggestion -
Newbie Award offered to any primitive never nominated for any awards in any past years, regardless of his or her time on the island.
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I like this idea -- as it will make it more likely that new talent will be discovered..
My suggestion -
Newbie Award offered to any primitive never nominated for any awards in any past years, regardless of his or her time on the island.
Duly noted and considered, sir; there will be a newbie award for 2011 using your criteria.
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No term limits for DUmmies. They should be considered and re-elected ad nauseum, just like their Supreme Court-packing icon FDR, the father of LIHOP, who, come to think of it, is earning posthumous DUmp cred through his custom of sitting down on the job.
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I like this idea -- as it will make it more likely that new talent will be discovered..
My suggestion -
Newbie Award offered to any primitive never nominated for any awards in any past years, regardless of his or her time on the island.
Oh, I like that suggestion, I wasn't sure if it should just be people with a low amount of posts or if there was someway to "affirmative action" people who've never been nominated before.
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No term limits for DUmmies. They should be considered and re-elected ad nauseum.....
That's my thought too, given that it just naturally happens that a stale old boring primitive tends to drop off the list, over time.
As incredible as it may seem, the Bostonian Drunkard's best days are behind him now.
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In most cases, if a new DUmbass makes enough outrageous posts to get attention, he will be a troll. But a top troll is every bit as deserving of recognition as a top newbie DUmbass. Maybe someone here will take the trophy.
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No term limits for DUmmies. They should be considered and re-elected ad nauseum, just like their Supreme Court-packing icon FDR, the father of LIHOP, who, come to think of it, is earning posthumous DUmp cred through his custom of sitting down on the job.
I couldn't agree more -
But I do live in Massachusetts, so I'm accustomed to this.. :-) I figure between keeping all primitives eligible for top primitive, coupled with the Newbie award, the most entertaining of the well-known primitives will continue to appear on the charts, while those who either become dull, tombstoned, or self-exiled will naturally fade away.
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As incredible as it may seem, the Bostonian Drunkard's best days are behind him now.
I'm not so sure about this. Pitt tends to be far more entertaining when there is something political that makes him upset, which I suspect the new congress will.
Pitthagorean Theorem
If an upset Pitt equals a drunk Pitt, and a drunk Pitt equals an entertaining Pitt, then an upset Pitt equals an entertaining Pitt. Bank it.
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I'm not so sure about this. Pitt tends to be far more entertaining when there is something political that makes him upset, which I suspect the new congress will.
Pitthagorean Theorem
If an upset Pitt equals a drunk Pitt, and a drunk Pitt equals an entertaining Pitt, then an upset Pitt equals an entertaining Pitt. Bank it.
I think the new congress may help to energize the hatred at the DUmp and give us some better entertainment overall.
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I like the idea of a Newbie of the Year.
You may consider a Presidential style electability limit. 2 terms as DOTY and then no more for life. Even though for the most part they implode on their own during they first term and just become shadows of their former selves from there on out. You never know though. There might be a day when one wigs out and the spotlight has to be brought to bear on them and DU.
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I thought about suggesting a category for "Best Suicide Run of the Year", but realized that many of them probably never get seen by us.
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I thought about suggesting a category for "Best Suicide Run of the Year", but realized that many of them probably never get seen by us.
Uh huh.
And I've also suspected that conservativecave, and certain personages therein, are mentioned on Skins's island, but my fellow alum yanks down the curtain within minutes, so we don't see it.
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This may not be the time or place but as Der Skimmer continues to rule with an iron fist, TSing DUmmy's and with the growing membership of The Elmers of ex DUmmy's, there may be a need to open up the nomination to include an island chain and not just skins island.
Maybe a special catagory of off island primitive.
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Any suggested criteria for the newbie award?
A primitive actually new on Skins's island, or a primitive who's been around for a while, but newly discovered by the DUmpster?
I suspect the newbie and mole awards will come into being for 2011, but the ideas need developed a little further.
I'd think nominees for the N00b of the Year award should be limited only by the criteria that they be the most entertaining primitive to have less than 1,000 posts to their notoriety at the time that nominations open.
Alternately, it could be for the DUmmy who achieved it's pinnacle of entertainment value in a single or group of posts excreted to the Island while the DUmmy was still a <1000 post n00b (though the poo-flinger in question might have graduated beyond n00b status since that climactic posts in question).
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This may not be the time or place but as Der Skimmer continues to rule with an iron fist, TSing DUmmy's and with the growing membership of The Elmers of ex DUmmy's, there may be a need to open up the nomination to include an island chain and not just skins island.
Maybe a special catagory of off island primitive.
Maybe a midyear Elmer & Elsie award?
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As incredible as it may seem, the Bostonian Drunkard's best days are behind him now.
WilliePitt has had something which an objective observer would label as a "best day(s)"? :confused: I thought he just had days in which he was less of a disappointment to Raven than others.
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Hmmm . . . I think I'll try to think about this a little bit more, but I like the ideas here and think they might work. A top three or five nOObs of the year would freshen up the concept, as well as a "poster of the month", but that would take more work. Mulling it over.
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Hmmm . . . I think I'll try to think about this a little bit more, but I like the ideas here and think they might work. A top three or five nOObs of the year would freshen up the concept, as well as a "poster of the month", but that would take more work. Mulling it over.
You might be on to something. DUmmy of the month whereas the DUmmy of the year must have been DoM. DoM could be a simple process.
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I like the idea of a Newbie of the Year.
You may consider a Presidential style electability limit. 2 terms as DOTY and then no more for life. Even though for the most part they implode on their own during they first term and just become shadows of their former selves from there on out. You never know though. There might be a day when one wigs out and the spotlight has to be brought to bear on them and DU.
That would forever exclude TiT if he ever returns to the island. :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:
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Okay, folks, I think we can be secure in knowing that in addition to the special Willie and Annie awards twelve months hence, we'll add a newbie and a mole award, although I haven't thought out the criteria for them yet; but then and again, I got a little over ten months to think about it.
I haven't consulted with Mr. Wiggum yet, but I'm sure he'll go along with it, as to him it means only that he has to add something new to his Diebold counting machine, and expand his Excel worksheet.
However, this guy has to write the things, and it seems to me that primitives of the month, and any more additional special awards would be too, uh, time-intensive. And franksolich is not made out of time.....or of insight.
However, I'm still willing to listen, willing to lend an ear if I had an ear.
But now go back to one issue not yet discussed--some have commented that the ballot for the top ten is too long, too many primitives on it, and as many are PonPs, they're unfamiliar with them.
The ballot for 2010 had, if I recall correctly, 61 names on it.
There are 10 top primitives selected, and 10 runners-up.
Each voter gets to vote for 10.
Should the nominations for the ballot be limited to, say, 30 or 40?
And how would one limit?
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Okay, folks, I think we can be secure in knowing that in addition to the special Willie and Annie awards twelve months hence, we'll add a newbie and a mole award, although I haven't thought out the criteria for them yet; but then and again, I got a little over ten months to think about it.
I haven't consulted with Mr. Wiggum yet, but I'm sure he'll go along with it, as to him it means only that he has to add something new to his Diebold counting machine, and expand his Excel worksheet.
However, this guy has to write the things, and it seems to me that primitives of the month, and any more additional special awards would be too, uh, time-intensive. And franksolich is not made out of time.....or of insight.
However, I'm still willing to listen, willing to lend an ear if I had an ear.
But now go back to one issue not yet discussed--some have commented that the ballot for the top ten is too long, too many primitives on it, and as many are PonPs, they're unfamiliar with them.
The ballot for 2010 had, if I recall correctly, 61 names on it.
There are 10 top primitives selected, and 10 runners-up.
Each voter gets to vote for 10.
Should the nominations for the ballot be limited to, say, 30 or 40?
And how would one limit?
This place and gator's furry forum combined represent a pretty small number of voters. When you have a brazillion nominees, the voting must be terribly fragmented, so a DUmbass can win recognition with a tiny handful of votes. I'd only allow voting on the 20 nominees with the highest number of nominations, and then name a Top Ten after the voting. It's kind of disturbing to see so many DUmmies all swelled up with pride, when they deserve nothing.
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This place and gator's furry forum combined represent a pretty small number of voters. When you have a brazillion nominees, the voting must be terribly fragmented, so a DUmbass can win recognition with a tiny handful of votes. I'd only allow voting on the 20 nominees with the highest number of nominations, and then name a Top Ten after the voting. It's kind of disturbing to see so many DUmmies all swelled up with pride, when they deserve nothing.
Okay, sir, I think I'm getting your drift, and if I'm getting it correctly, I'm all for it.
On the "nominating" thread, every person can nominate up to, say, ten primitives.
After the nominations close, the 20 or 30 who received the most nominations go on the "voting" thread.
With all these other awards, it might make sense to drop the runners-up, primitives #20-11.
If this is your suggestion, but in my words rather than your words, I'm all for it.
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It's been suggested that some primitives become stale after x many years ...
I said the same one's are getting stale, and they are getting too predictable to me. I'm going to make a effort to not focus on any of the regulars in 2011, or at least try it for 6 months or so and see how it goes.
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You know, I kinda feel sorry for those who seem always to be nominated but never win. That whole "always the bride's maid, never the bride" thing. Or that soap opera star that played Erica year after year after year and never won a daytime Emmy. Too bad there wasn't a way to recognize the DUmmie who's such a pathetic loser that he/she/it can't even make it into the top 10. It takes a special kind of worthlessness to never quite get there.
Cindie
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A "DUmmie Hall of Fame"....and I nominate TiT to be the first.
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A "DUmmie Hall of Fame"....and I nominate TiT to be the first.
I like the idea of a "DUmmie Hall of Fame". Of course, we would need to work out the entry requirements.
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I like the idea of a "DUmmie Hall of Fame". Of course, we would need to work out the entry requirements.
Well, probably that will happen for 2011, or at least something very similar to it.
I'm working on simplifying things, because last year it got way out of hand.
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Well, probably that will happen for 2011, or at least something very similar to it.
I'm working on simplifying things, because last year it got way out of hand.
:bravo:
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Well, probably that will happen for 2011, or at least something very similar to it.
I'm working on simplifying things, because last year it got way out of hand.
All you need is the Top 20. Everything else is just noise.
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All you need is the Top 20. Everything else is just noise.
Actually, I think what's going to happen--this hasn't been cleared with my associate Mr. Wiggum yet, though--is just the top ten primitives, no runners-up (top primitives 11-20), and the Lifetime Achievement Award (or, in other words, the DUmmie Hall of Fame).
Last December, I suspect both Mr. Wiggum and I spent more time working on the top primitives than working in our jobs. True, it was a lot of fun, but if something bad had happened in real life that interfered with production of the whole show here, it wouldn't have gone off.
So best to keep it big, but minimal.
As the writer of the awards, I will say one rarely has problems writing about the top primitives, but once one gets down lower, in this case to primitives #11-20, those tend to be lesser-known primitives, and it becomes difficult to find good material from them.
One can see that in the awards for 2010, in which I put them all together, top primitives #11-20, and could barely write half a paragraph on some of them.....whereas with the top ten primitives, well, one could write those awards without any research at all.
Although even with only ten, the writer's fatigue shows. I still consider the award for the #02 Top Primitive of 2010, the sparkling husband dude, as a literary masterpiece, the epitome, the peak, the sans peer, the ne plus ultra, of awards, but I was wearing down, and the erosion showed in the award for the #01 Top Primitive of 2010, the Die alte Sau, whose award should have been the best-written one, but wasn't.
So I think we're going to just have the top ten primitives, the Lifetime primitive (or Hall of Fame), and perhaps maybe the "newcomer of the year," awards.
This doesn't start until about three months from now, Thanksgiving Eve, but I think it's a good idea to put the primitives on notice there's going to be new rules, new standards, and so it's in their own best interest to keep improving their talents, if they want to be considered.
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Is it possible that Nads could not only win the top award but also be the winner in the DUmmie Hall of Fame?
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Is it possible that Nads could not only win the top award but also be the winner in the DUmmie Hall of Fame?
I suppose so. As was mentioned up-thread, last year's just became a little too much work for Frank and myself.
I do like the idea of a DUmmy Hall of Fame/Shame.
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I suppose so. As was mentioned up-thread, last year's just became a little too much work for Frank and myself.
I do like the idea of a DUmmy Hall of Fame/Shame.
I have no problem at all with a Top 10 as opposed to a Top 20. IMO though, this is totally going to be a race for places 2-10, I can't imagine anyone but Nads winning Top Primitive.
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I do like the idea of a DUmmy Hall of Fame/Shame.
I'm thinking along the lines that the Hall of Shame already exists, and of course it'll have a new member installed this year.
I consider each of the top primitives (the number one DUmmie) of all the years, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 a member of that Hall of Shame, in addition to the winners of the Willie in 2009 and 2010, and the winner of the Annie in 2010. That's about 10-12 members right now, and during the nominations, I'll make up the list of them for review.
I don't consider writing 12 awards in ten days overmuch; but any more than that, it is.
Ten top primitives, the Hall of Shame, and the most-promising newcomer.
Also, the balloting; sometimes we've had as many as 70+ primitives nominated.
I think this time around, it would be good to have a shortened ballot, one selecting the top ten from the twenty most-nominated primitives. A ballot with only twenty names is manageable.
This is all very tentative, but again, as lurking primitives have been reading this old thread so as to figure out how to manipulate the rules in their favor come December, this should surely inspire them to try harder, to get on that shortened ballot, and ultimately to be on that shortened list of the top primitives.
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Top Ten is excellent. DUmmies will know they can't just coast into post season glory.
It may make things more lively at the DUmp in the fourth quarter of the year.
Legitimate contenders for the top spot have always sprinted to the wire, but a lot of DUmbasses,
knowing they couldn't win but confident in their lunacy, could take it easy and still get a nice writeup
and attention. They can't do that if there are only ten highlighted losers.
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For you lurking primitives- even the Top Dummies is being downsized, and I lay the blame solely at the feet of Obama.The just means you DUmmies will have to work that much harder to get your name up in the top bracket. :popcorn:
I also really like the idea of a "Best Suicide Run of the Year". Obviously, we can't catch all of the suicides, but that shouldn't stop us from at least trying it for a year, and seeing how it works out, right?
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I also really like the idea of a "Best Suicide Run of the Year". Obviously, we can't catch all of the suicides, but that shouldn't stop us from at least trying it for a year, and seeing how it works out, right?
I like this idea.