The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Texacon on December 29, 2010, 10:44:32 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x87463
newtothegame (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-29-10 11:16 AM
Original message
The problem with Medicare for all is the false assumption that Medicare is working now.
Edited on Wed Dec-29-10 11:23 AM by newtothegame
I work in a non-profit cancer center providing medical oncology and radiation oncology. We are reimbursed ~$.51 on the dollar for Medicare patients and ~$.38 on the dollar for Medicaid patients. Contrary to many DU'ers beliefs about healthcare, this is on our COSTS, NOT CHARGES. So we are losing $.49 for every dollar on Medicare patients (treatments usually costs tens of thousands of dollars) and $.62 for every dollar on Medicaid patients. Medicare and Medicaid make up 70% of our patients. We are the only cancer treatment option for 90 miles around, and being extremely rural, our average patient is over 60 years old.
As a non-profit, we don't need or want a profit. But we do need to cover costs to keep our doors open. Buy the medicines, pay the workers, etc. And covering costs would not cover purchasing of new medicines, or new technology, or expanding our space as we see more patients.
We also lose money on most commercial insurers, but it isn't nearly as bad. We get ~$.80 on the dollar for our costs for commercial payers.
The only reasons we're still open is because 1) we have a benefactor who passed away in the mid 90's but whose foundation still regularly donates and 2) we as staff take barebones pay and do everything we can to keep expenses to a minimum because we care so much about this place and our patients, and realize how devastating it would be to see it go.
So my question to the "Medicare for All" folks is, if our government can't afford to reimburse Medicare care at more than $.51 on the dollar NOW, how the HELL would we stay open to treat patients if ALL our patients were Medicare/Medicaid? Our doors would be closed within 60 days and the only provider of cancer care in 30 counties would be gone.
The ONLY reason Medicare seems like such a great and affordable program to so many is because Medicare isn't actually paying for care at all. It's affordable to you because it's BANKRUPTING hospitals and clinics. Medicare for All is not a realistic cry at this point unless the government decides to make Medicare a TRUE reimburser of care.
On edit: Sorry for the rant, but this issue really upsets me and I think there's a lot of misinformation amongst those who don't actually work in healthcare.
How is that post allowed to stay on the DU? Holy smoke. Talk about speaking truth to power.
NNN0LHI (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-29-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. How is my memory on this?
When Dennis Kucinich and some others came out in favor of Medicare for all last year didn't everyone say, "Yea, buddy, sure sounds good to me.", until the costs for such a program were revealed?
As I recall, and I may be wrong, the price was between $600 and $800 per person per month, depending on the state. At that point everyone became unexcited about DK's idea?
Am I remembering this right? Or did I dream that?
Don
Recursion (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-29-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yep. We worked that out several times on the board
And the $600 to $800 per person only gets the level of under-reimbursement that the OP is having to deal with.
But, at some point, supporting single payer as an idea became more important than finding a way that we could actually afford to pay for the healthcare of an obese, unhealthy, and economically unequal nation.
Who are these people?? Damn. This doesn't look like the DU.
tavalon (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-29-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, having just helped hubby give away his medicare in favor of an HMO
so he can actually get care, I've been rather appalled. I do want single payer but I also want the "healthcare system" to be government owned and controlled. But then, I'm not just a nurse, I'm a socialist. I really believe the biggest problem is the leeches upon the system.
Ahhh there's the DU we all know and love so much.
But wait .... what's THIS??
Ron Green (1000+ posts)
Wed Dec-29-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
9. It's simple, if not easy:
1) Everybody in, nobody, out. Medicare for all.
2) Quit subsidizing Big Corn, and Big Soy and make policy that truly builds the public health.
3) Have a realistic dialog about death and all the kinds of end-of-life issues that have been driven for decades by the AMA, Big Pharma and other corporate players. Look at "hospice" rather than "hospital" as a first choice.
I thought Sara Palin was the total idiot for mentioning Death Panels! What the ...?? You mean DUmmies are now mentioning it? Wow.
It's a small thread. Probably destined to stay that way.
KC
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x87463
How is that post allowed to stay on the DU? Holy smoke. Talk about speaking truth to power.
Who are these people?? Damn. This doesn't look like the DU.
Ahhh there's the DU we all know and love so much.
But wait .... what's THIS??
I thought Sara Palin was the total idiot for mentioning Death Panels! What the ...?? You mean DUmmies are now mentioning it? Wow.
It's a small thread. Probably destined to stay that way.
KC
Actually the "death panels" are back. End of life counselling is being added through medicare regulations.
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Actually the "death panels" are back. End of life counselling is being added through medicare regulations.
Yeah, I've even heard a few dem pols mention them. Amazing none of them will backtrack to when they were calling Palin an idiot and laughing and DENYING the death panels would exist. Anyone with a thinking brain knows that is how it would have to go down.
KC
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Actually the "death panels" are back. End of life counselling is being added through medicare regulations.
How thoughtful of them, huh? ::)
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Straight outta Glenn Beck's nightmare.....and they call him nuts.
Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Dec-29-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. ....
We have to get rid of the AMA's stranglehold on med school class sizes.
We have to make med and nursing school free or at least affordable.
We have to negotiate much drug prices with pharma (but remember, currently our overpaying is subsidizing all of the other industrialized countries' drug prices). And medical device manufacturers.
We would have to get rid of the bourgeois' attitude that they can see any doctor they want, at any time they want, and get any treatment they want without waiting.
We would need to change our ag policy so that unhealthy foods are no longer unrealistically cheap at the cash register
And we would need fewer cars, guns, and, not to put too fine a point on it, fat poor people
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Recursion (1000+ posts) Wed Dec-29-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
7.....We have to get rid of the AMA's stranglehold on med school class sizes.
We have to make med and nursing school free or at least affordable.
We have to negotiate much drug prices with pharma (but remember, currently our overpaying is subsidizing all of the other industrialized countries' drug prices). And medical device manufacturers.
We would have to get rid of the bourgeois' attitude that they can see any doctor they want, at any time they want, and get any treatment they want without waiting.
We would need to change our ag policy so that unhealthy foods are no longer unrealistically cheap at the cash register
And we would need fewer cars, guns, and, not to put too fine a point on it, fat poor people
And,...how does this "utopia" come about primitive? :???: ::)
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When all these liberal "academics" start providing their services for free, lemme know.
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We need more affirmative action medical school students. More doctors like the one in "Idiocracy", who diagnosed the hero as "tarded".
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We need more affirmative action medical school students. More doctors like the one in "Idiocracy", who diagnosed the hero as "tarded".
There goes that fag talk again.
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We need more affirmative action medical school students. More doctors like the one in "Idiocracy", who diagnosed the hero as "tarded".
There goes that fag talk again.
:lmao:
^5's.
I love that movie.
KC
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Actually the "death panels" are back. End of life counselling is being added through medicare regulations.
Once we get the End of Life Counseling in place it will be time for the Before Life Counseling Panels to be brought on line to terminate those troublesome problems like Downs Syndrome etc. SPED could become a thing of the past with a perfect or nothing birth policy. :fuelfire:
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They'd no doubt like to see Planned Parenthood under the umbrella of the Executive Office.
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Hopefully, someday, when conservatives prove their points by quoting parts of bills, even the media won't be stupid enough to fall for the unproven assertions of the liberals.
Yeah, I know. I'm dreaming... :thatsright:
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3) Have a realistic dialog about death and all the kinds of end-of-life issues that have been driven for decades by the AMA, Big Pharma and other corporate players. Look at "hospice" rather than "hospital" as a first choice.
I have a better idea. Let's borrow and modify an idea from the movie Logan's Run. When every adult reaches the age of 65 they report to a population control station and get euthanized.
:mental:
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I have a better idea. Let's borrow and modify an idea from the movie Logan's Run. When every adult reaches the age of 65 they report to a population control station and get euthanized.
:mental:
Only if they're from the Left.
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If this thread title isn't the truth. Hospitals have to over-charge people who have insurance to make up for the low payments for Medicare and Medicaid hence those of us with insurance getting constant high rate increases.
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If this thread title isn't the truth. Hospitals have to over-charge people who have insurance to make up for the low payments for Medicare and Medicaid hence those of us with insurance getting constant high rate increases.
Yep. The OP is correct, Medicare and Medicaid do not cover even cost. If Obamacare is allowed to continue as passed, our healthcare system will be decimated...just in time for the Baby Boomers. The Death Panels will be an absolute necessity.
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Yep. The OP is correct, Medicare and Medicaid do not cover even cost. If Obamacare is allowed to continue as passed, our healthcare system will be decimated...just in time for the Baby Boomers. The Death Panels will be an absolute necessity.
I reject the notion there are death panels. They are happy fun time panels.
:-)
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The one who said we need
fewer fat, poor people
was right. We could definitely use fewer DUmmies, then everyone would be better off and we wouldn't need any HCR, or any other gov't overreach program
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The Kenyan's plan is compassionate, including the plan to manufacture soylent green.