The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Archives => Politics => Election 2012 => Topic started by: ndh777 on December 16, 2010, 01:41:25 AM
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I've always been a Palin supporter since I first saw her pop up in the 2008 campaigns, but now many of my Conservative friends, both those who like Sarah and those who don't, are looking to a new guy named Allen West. There has been little information on him, but from what I've read and heard, he's just as Conservative, if not more, than Sarah Palin.
I'm going both ways. Which candidate would you likely vote for if each ran in the 2012 election? Or any other candidates worthy enough for us to check out?
Judging by many of the users I see here, I'd say that many of you are for Palin, if my assumptions are correct.
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Allen West is an excellent conservative. But my guess is that many people are going to be a bit wary about voting in another black president back to back after another black president... especially in light of the fact that so many were "fooled" into voting for the first one just because he was/is black (like my mother did). And look how Steele is screwing things up ... and hes on our side.
I luv to gamble but only because I count cards. My money would be on Palin.
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LTC Allen West, US Army, Retired, is one of those guys who does the right thing, regardless of the consequences. IIRC, after a couple of his guys were killed and just after a firefight, West pulled a pistol on a muzzie while in Iraq to get him to talk. He then reported the incident to his superior.
It cost him his career.
Note that he did NOT fire on the muzzie.
But it still cost him his career.
He's a good man and he'll be a standup congressman, but he's too politically inexperienced to run for more than what he's got right now.
And by "politically inexperienced", what I mean is he hasn't learned to lie, cheat, and steal. Those are prerequisites to STAYING a Congressman.
I'm betting that West eventually gets frustrated and disgusted with the whole D.C. shithole mess and decides, after giving it the ol' college try, that he can't change that institution the way it needs to change - so he'll find something else to do.
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West has a very thin record in civilian public life to look at so far, it's kind of premature to set this up until we've seen a lot more of him, though so far there's nothing not to like. You may say 'Well, you can say the same about Obama,' to which I'd reply, 'Yeah, and look at how that turned out.'
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West has a very thin record in civilian public life to look at so far, it's kind of premature to set this up until we've seen a lot more of him, though so far there's nothing not to like. You may say 'Well, you can say the same about Obama,' to which I'd reply, 'Yeah, and look at how that turned out.'
Obama turned out just like most of us feared that he would.
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Obama turned out just like most of us feared that he would.
True, but talking about what we saw in him is basically preaching to the choir.
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Judging by many of the users I see here, I'd say that many of you are for Palin, if my assumptions are correct.
Definitely a Palinite here! :-) She's come a long way since she first appeared on the scene and it's very obvious that she's matured. She'll be ready for 2012 if she decides to run then.
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Allen West is an excellent conservative. But my guess is that many people are going to be a bit wary about voting in another black president back to back after another black president... especially in light of the fact that so many were "fooled" into voting for the first one just because he was/is black (like my mother did). And look how Steele is screwing things up ... and hes on our side.
I luv to gamble but only because I count cards. My money would be on Palin.
I would hope not. Nobody had any trouble voting for another white president after Carter. I would hope people would look at him, his accomplishments and his plans.
Of course, nobody did that with Obama.
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Definitely a Palinite here! :-) She's come a long way since she first appeared on the scene and it's very obvious that she's matured. She'll be ready for 2012 if she decides to run then.
Same here. I want someone that is not only a conservative but brings excitement and will use brass knuckles on those that distort his/her record. In other words, I want a fighter cause a compassionate conservative will get rolled over by the left. I don't see a soul in Congress that will do that. Career politician will not be on my list either. Palin has experience in the private sector which is a big plus in my book.
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I'm watching Sarah Palin bat Bill O'Reilly around like a chew toy right now on FNC. I love that woman!
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I'm watching Sarah Palin bat Bill O'Reilly around like a chew toy right now on FNC. I love that woman!
You and me both :-)
She's done just about everything that I like and continues to shine. Her actions also go well with her political choices, such as the whole ordeal with her child and her choice not to abort.
I'd vote for either if it came down to it, but I was wondering who you guys would choose from the two. True, West and Palin are both pretty inexperienced as Eupher pointed out and I like his/her definition of the word "politician". :rotf: But both are also "under qualified" as many Liberals and Democrats like to point out, although they had no problem not recognizing how inexperienced Obama was too...And what I mean by under qualified is that neither has served in our politics for more than a decade or two. But I like that.
I had always thought that Palin wouldn't survive even though I love her simply because of the media constantly attacking her, but on the other hand, it'd be highly hypocritical and noticeable if they attacked West (a black man), because according to the 2008 election, anyone who was against Obama is a racist because he happens to be black...I never thought about the point that about what Janice stated, that he being black may harm his campaign since Obama, a terrible and sorry excuse for a commander in chief, could harm future black politicians, like West, from winning or even getting through the candidate ladder.
It's just a question I've been debating for myself and wanted to know what some of you guys think.
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Palin all the way
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Palin all the way
Hear, hear.
West has zero political experience. He has not been elected to any position. So, I do not understand why anyone would bring his name up for the Presidency or VP.
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Hear, hear.
West has zero political experience. He has not been elected to any position. So, I do not understand why anyone would bring his name up for the Presidency or VP.
Except to Congress. :-)
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Except to Congress. :-)
Jan 5, 2011 will be his first day in the field of politics. :-) :cheersmate:
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Jan 5, 2011 will be his first day in the field of politics. :-) :cheersmate:
And better him that me... I don't think I would last too long with all the jackasses in Congress.
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He got to the rank of Colonel....he has 'some' experience in politics....military politics but politics none the less.
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And better him that me... I don't think I would last too long with all the jackasses in Congress.
Me neither. A SOB that calls my party names on the floor of Congress had better jump back Loretta cause I would take it personally.
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He got to the rank of Colonel....he has 'some' experience in politics....military politics but politics none the less.
Not quite to Colonel - he was an LTC in charge of interrogations when the incident in Iraq occurred that cost him his career.
West's Wiki article says that the incident involved him actually discharging his pistol past the head of a detainee who was suspected (and did indeed have) information pertaining to an ambush that was being planned by insurgents. I had thought he merely threatened the guy with the pistol, but he actually fired a round past his head.
He was brought up on charges, had an Article 32 hearing, admitted what he did, was fined $5,000 and then following that, submitted his retirement paperwork being just short of 22 years.
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_%28politician%29#Iraq_interrogation_incident_and_retirement)
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Not quite to Colonel - he was an LTC in charge of interrogations when the incident in Iraq occurred that cost him his career.
West's Wiki article says that the incident involved him actually discharging his pistol past the head of a detainee who was suspected (and did indeed have) information pertaining to an ambush that was being planned by insurgents. I had thought he merely threatened the guy with the pistol, but he actually fired a round past his head.
He was brought up on charges, had an Article 32 hearing, admitted what he did, was fined $5,000 and then following that, submitted his retirement paperwork being just short of 22 years.
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_%28politician%29#Iraq_interrogation_incident_and_retirement)
Wow, well you know what, that still doesn't discourage me from voting for him or wanting to. That just shows that he has some sort of morals, a thing that many politicians would be scratching their heads and asking about. It also shows that he is not afraid of getting to the truth even if it does mean exerting a little pain, while I agree with that, I can see why others would not. But at least he had the decency to not actually kill or injure the man. The typical thought we get from movies or tv shows like 24 is that for a bad interrogation, someone would have shot someone in the leg or something. He also admitted to what he did. I'm sure he felt that what he did was right and just, but that's good that he has some respect for the laws placed. That means that he may not agree with the laws set, but he's willing to obey them, unlike Obama and others who simply think that since they disagree with the law, they are above it. That makes me give more props to the guy.
This is a great discussion. :cheersmate:
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I'm somewhat conflicted. My thoughts are "Would Sarah Palin be better as the office holder or Part of or leading the power machine that puts the politician in office" ? Sometimes the Broker is in essence more important than the candidate.
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Allen West is an excellent conservative. But my guess is that many people are going to be a bit wary about voting in another black president back to back after another black president... especially in light of the fact that so many were "fooled" into voting for the first one just because he was/is black (like my mother did). And look how Steele is screwing things up ... and hes on our side.
I luv to gamble but only because I count cards. My money would be on Palin.
The left is the only party that votes as if they were the guardians of affirmative action. With Obama they were able (for a multitude of reasons) able to overwhelm the squishy middle with platitudes and "feel good" bullshit to get him elected. But, it also ushered in a reawakening of the American people. They're paying attention. Substance matters and we are a center-right country. Our next president will have values more representative of the public. Color has nothing to do with it. If we judge all black people by believing they're all just like Obama then shame on us!
That said, I still think Palin can win. Her political instincts are sharper than any I've seen. She outfoxes her critics constantly, including inside the beltway "conservatives". Like Reagan, she goes right to the people and speaks with the same common sense they do. "Elitist" (think Romney on "our" side) is going to be a bigger weight around ones ankle than color, sex, etc. This knowing what's best for us and talking down to us is over. Palin knows this. I think it's why she's not taking the "advice" of her critics and hiring a speech coach. She thinks she can win on substance, not style. I think she can too. It's uncanny how she constantly outsmarts all the "smart" people.
Cindie
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!
That said, I still think Palin can win. Her political instincts are sharper than any I've seen. She outfoxes her critics constantly, including inside the beltway "conservatives". Like Reagan, she goes right to the people and speaks with the same common sense they do. "Elitist" (think Romney on "our" side) is going to be a bigger weight around ones ankle than color, sex, etc. This knowing what's best for us and talking down to us is over. Palin knows this. I think it's why she's not taking the "advice" of her critics and hiring a speech coach. She thinks she can win on substance, not style. I think she can too. It's uncanny how she constantly outsmarts all the "smart" people.
Cindie
I think she can win too. Depending on how many candidates in the primaries, she should easily win 20% or more voters in every state which will either win that state or come in second. She will destroy Obama in the debates cause she will not pull a McCain and act/talk like a wet noodle. She will challenge him on the facts and go after his sorry record. I can see that she is improving in answering questions. O'Reilly tried a few gotcha moments and she ate him alive.
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Not quite to Colonel - he was an LTC in charge of interrogations when the incident in Iraq occurred that cost him his career.
West's Wiki article says that the incident involved him actually discharging his pistol past the head of a detainee who was suspected (and did indeed have) information pertaining to an ambush that was being planned by insurgents. I had thought he merely threatened the guy with the pistol, but he actually fired a round past his head.
He was brought up on charges, had an Article 32 hearing, admitted what he did, was fined $5,000 and then following that, submitted his retirement paperwork being just short of 22 years.
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_%28politician%29#Iraq_interrogation_incident_and_retirement)
I thought that, at the time of the incident (for which I think he should have been awarded a medal), he commanded an artillery battalion in 4th ID.
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Palin West in 2012. :-)
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I think we need to see how Allen West does 1st before we start touting him. Personally? I love Sarah but as has been mentioned before, she has been vilified by the media and too many people still think she said "I can see Russia from my house". I would love to see her as head of the RNC though, the Republican Party needs a shake-up. My personal choices right now are Thune and Pawlenty, Romney has flip flopped way too much sadly, also I would love to see DeMint and Pence. I'm not interested in Huckabee and Newt.
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I thought that, at the time of the incident (for which I think he should have been awarded a medal), he commanded an artillery battalion in 4th ID.
Correct - but the Wiki article said that at the time of the incident, he was "in charge of an interrogation of a civilian Iraqi police officer..."
Kinda curious that an arty battalion commander should be interrogating detainees, but that's what the article says....
And I agree with you about the medal. Instead they cashiered him. :banghead:
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Correct - but the Wiki article said that at the time of the incident, he was "in charge of an interrogation of a civilian Iraqi police officer..."
Kinda curious that an arty battalion commander should be interrogating detainees, but that's what the article says....
And I agree with you about the medal. Instead they cashiered him. :banghead:
I thought that the prisoner was under interrogation by others at the time, but was not talking. West then decided to do the job himself, and told others that he alone was responsible for what happened afterwards. I may be wrong.
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I thought that the prisoner was under interrogation by others at the time, but was not talking. West then decided to do the job himself, and told others that he alone was responsible for what happened afterwards. I may be wrong.
Here's the Wiki article, in part:
Iraq interrogation incident and retirement
While serving in Taji, Iraq on August 20, 2003, West was in charge of an interrogation of a civilian Iraqi police officer who was suspected of having pertinent information regarding attacks on American soldiers in the area. Interrogators had learned that the detainee had information about a planned ambush. When the interrogators were unable to extract the information from the detainee, West was asked to assist with the interrogation. When the detainee continued to withhold information, West was accused of firing his pistol past the detainee's head, frightening the detainee into revealing the requested information. According to West's sworn statement,[9] the detainee informed West that:
“ [The attack] was to occur Friday morning in Saba al Boor vicinity of the police station by positioned snipers supposedly being brought in from Fallujah. [The detainee] was to ID my vehicle and myself for these rooftop firers. We took this information and the following day established flask CPs and used AH-64s overhead. There was no attack and no further attacks have emanated from the town since the apprehension of [the detainee] and his named associates. â€
At least one man was apprehended as a result of the information obtained through the detainee's interrogation. His home was searched, but no plans for attacks on Americans or weapons were found. West testified that he did not know whether "any corroboration" of a plot was ever found, adding: "At the time I had to base my decision on the intelligence I received. It's possible that I was wrong about [the detainee,] Mr. Hamoodi."[10]
Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_West_%28politician%29)
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That's pretty close to the WaPo article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/31/AR2009083103558.html).
West told investigators he had brought with him three soldiers, who in the first 25 minutes he was there had sporadically hit the Iraqi with punches to the ribs, back and lower body. But the officer said he did not allow it "to get too brutal."
When another punching session did not work, West said, he ordered the Iraqi taken outside and had soldiers put him next to a "clearing barrel" -- one three-quarters full of sand that is used to test weapons. When a pistol is discharged into it, the bullet remains in the sand.
Through an interpreter, West told the beaten Iraqi that "this is where it will end," meaning that West would kill him if he did not talk. When faced with another refusal, West said, he took the Iraqi's head under his arm, pushed it into the barrel and shot twice with his pistol a foot from the Iraqi's ear. He said he pointed away so that the bullets went into the barrel.
West told investigators that after the incident, the "shocked" Iraqi finally offered the information he had sought. West reported his actions to his commanding officer.
This information comes from an Army Criminal Investigation Command document released by the American Civil Liberties Union in 2008. It is one of 2,814 documents from the Defense Department that the ACLU has collected in response to its request and lawsuit on allegations of abuse of prisoners held in U.S. custody.
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I'd say the WaPo article was much more detailed, because they clearly wanted to illustrate what kind of animal thug LTC West is. :whatever:
I'd say you do what works. You need information and waterboarding doesn't work? Stick the asshole's head in a clearing barrel and pull the trigger.
If that doesn't get him to shit his pants, he's a tough hombre.
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I'd say the WaPo article was much more detailed, because they clearly wanted to illustrate what kind of animal thug LTC West is. :whatever:
I'd say you do what works. You need information and waterboarding doesn't work? Stick the asshole's head in a clearing barrel and pull the trigger.
If that doesn't get him to shit his pants, he's a tough hombre.
I think their plan backfired with most people. Friends that I talked to at the time didn't understand what he done wrong that warranted the military going after him.
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I think their plan backfired with most people. Friends that I talked to at the time didn't understand what he done wrong that warranted the military going after him.
Well, based on the WaPo story, allowing the soldiers to beat on the asshole with punches etc., makes it look like West is a Cosa Nostra don.
The reaction that most people get to this kind of treatment is purely borne of those who are Monday-morning quarterbacking what these guys do on a daily basis. They're filtering everything through their own sense of "fair play" not understanding that the bastards who are getting waterboarded or punched in the ribs are the same ones drawing a bead on our guys or dialing a cell phone setting off an IED.
War is hell, but the pussies think it's some kind of game.
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War is hell, but the pussies think it's some kind of game.
All they know about war they learned from the movies.