The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on December 05, 2010, 06:11:34 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9696929
Quick check it out before it gets nuked.
Lot's of infighting.
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Holy Crap! If this douchebag had an R beside his name was had sex charges against him those pieces of shit would all of the sudden be for the death penalty. They are a bunch of rape apologists blaming the victim and making the rapist out to be a victim.
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If the US Government wants to prosecute PFC Manning for giving information that was classified, I'm fine with that.
If you want to go after a journalist who is not a citizen of the US for publishing information given to him, that is a different manner.
I'm still scratching my head how a PFC, was able to download so much information without having a visit to find out why he downloaded it.
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floyd of rosedale (3 posts) Sun Dec-05-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Truth to power Julian
F'ing truth to power.
God he looks so good and in control, how can you not just place all your hope and trust in this hero. Can't you just feel the power he projects.
Suicide run?
If the US Government wants to prosecute PFC Manning for giving information that was classified, I'm fine with that.
If you want to go after a journalist who is not a citizen of the US for publishing information given to him, that is a different manner.
I'm still scratching my head how a PFC, was able to download so much information without having a visit to find out why he downloaded it.
Assange could still be charged with espionage, but not treason. I think possession of classified materials without proper authorization is still a crime.
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Yes, if you are a citizen of this country which he is not.
US Laws apply to me, they don't apply to Australians.
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To amend, unless the Australian is living and conducting activities in the US.
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Yes, if you are a citizen of this country which he is not.
US Laws apply to me, they don't apply to Australians.
Death will apply to Assange, and it won't be by US hands. Putin will get to him first.
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Death will apply to Assange, and it won't be by US hands. Putin will get to him first.
Quite probable.
However, when I pledge Allegiance to the US Flag, I don't pledge it to the flag it is to the US Constitution the basis for the flag.
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If the US Government wants to prosecute PFC Manning for giving information that was classified, I'm fine with that.
If you want to go after a journalist who is not a citizen of the US for publishing information given to him, that is a different manner.
I'm still scratching my head how a PFC, was able to download so much information without having a visit to find out why he downloaded it.
The US govt is the least of his worries. Once the Russians get a hold of him he will wish that he was in Gitmo instead.
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Yes, if you are a citizen of this country which he is not.
US Laws apply to me, they don't apply to Australians.
Exactly, which is why one day, Assange is going to drop off the face of the earth. or more specifically, dropped into the deepest part of the Atlantic. It was fun and game when he was working to embarass and discredit the Bush Administration, now that he is going after Obama, his days are most certainly numbered.
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Quite probable.
However, when I pledge Allegiance to the US Flag, I don't pledge it to the flag it is to the US Constitution the basis for the flag.
And if you posted such documents you would be committing treason.
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I wonder if Vegas has a pool going for when he will disappear? If not, they should! If I had more friends here (in my town) that watched the news or even knew what wikileaks were I would start a pool for cash.
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And if you posted such documents you would be committing treason.
Yes, I'm a citizen of this country.
I don't agree with a world court. Why should I expect non-US citizens to obey our national security laws outside this country. That is just silly on so many levels.
We are a sovereign nation. A foreigner has no loyalty to the US Government nor should they be expected to have any.
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When the Wikileaks founder starts leaking body fluids you know we're going to get blamed for it no matter who does it.....Soooo, let's get on with it. Poke him full of holes already.
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Yes, I'm a citizen of this country.
I don't agree with a world court. Why should I expect non-US citizens to obey our national security laws outside this country. That is just silly on so many levels.
We are a sovereign nation. A foreigner has no loyalty to the US Government nor should they be expected to have any.
Uh, just responding to your comment about the flag.
As for this POS you have no problem with? he should be listening for the helicopters. Consequences to your actions..... he should have learned that in Kindergarten.
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Uh, just responding to your comment about the flag.
As for this POS you have no problem with? he should be listening for the helicopters. Consequences to your actions..... he should have learned that in Kindergarten.
So a foreigner posts information, that was handed to him by a US Citizen on the internet, and he should face execution. Interesting. All I can say is you are supporting a NWO and Global government more than any liberal in that statement.
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So a foreigner posts information, that was handed to him by a US Citizen on the internet, and he should face execution. Interesting. All I can say is you are supporting a NWO and Global government more than any liberal in that statement.
How long have you been waiting to say that to someone here. It sounded a little rehearsed.
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So a foreigner posts information, that was handed to him by a US Citizen on the internet, and he should face execution. Interesting. All I can say is you are supporting a NWO and Global government more than any liberal in that statement.
**** the NWO and **** the global gubberment shit. Blood shoots out of my eyes when I hear those words. It pisses me off. :argh:
I really hope the Russians get to him and turn him into a piece of human Swiss cheese.
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How long have you been waiting to say that to someone here. It sounded a little rehearsed.
I actually was thinking about keeping out of this thread, basically because I know the national security culture here, and stick to economics where we have common ground.
I don't expect to be charged in the US for a crime against the British government while living in the US for something I post on the internet. It is reasonable not to expect an Australian living in Iceland to not face a similar situation.
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So hoping the guy gets some consequences is worthy of bringing the NWO, Illuminati, Global Warming, and The Mummy into it?
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So hoping the guy gets some consequences is worthy of bringing the NWO, Illuminati, Global Warming, and The Mummy into it?
None of the documentation was even classified as Top Secret.
China shut down Google because their Dear Leader Googled himself.
The Arab states hate Iran as much as Israel does.
We spy on diplomats at the UN.
Not exactly earth shattering news.
I think the hard drive of BAC has him really in trouble, not the state department cables.
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So a foreigner posts information, that was handed to him by a US Citizen on the internet, and he should face execution. Interesting. All I can say is you are supporting a NWO and Global government more than any liberal in that statement.
Face execution? why so formal. He will be eliminated. Actions. Consequences. You honestly think the United States is going to post armed guards at your house if you released top secrets documents stolen from the Kremlin? Yeah about that, no. They'll get to you. They really don't give a flying fig about your freedom of speech either, and that you are just the messenger.
Of course in our case, we are at war. A traitor gave a POS top secret classified documents, which he published. But in your utopian world this guy is gold. No worries right?
Reality escapes the libertarian world. Pretty much every single time.
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I don't expect to be charged in the US for a crime against the British government while living in the US for something I post on the internet. It is reasonable not to expect an Australian living in Iceland to not face a similar situation.
Who said anything about being charged?
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Face execution? why so formal. He will be eliminated. Actions. Consequences. You honestly think the United States is going to post armed guards at your house if you released top secrets documents stolen from the Kremlin? Yeah about that, no. They'll get to you. They really don't give a flying fig about your freedom of speech either, and that you are just the messenger.
Of course in our case, we are at war. A traitor gave a POS top secret documents, which he published. But in your utopian world this guy is gold. No worries right?
Reality escapes the libertarian world. Pretty much every single time.
We are not at War. The last legal condition of war ended in 1945.
If you are talking about the "police action" that is not a war.
Oh, and I was pissed there was no formal declaration in 2001.
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Who said anything about being charged?
Well there comes the crux of the situation. If government wish to behave like gangsters, they have about as much moral and legal authority.
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We are not at War. The last legal condition of war ended in 1945.
If you are talking about the "police action" that is not a war.
Oh, and I was pissed there was no formal declaration in 2001.
Yeah about that:
http://www.justice.gov/olc/warpowers925.htm
Police action? oh how you do make me laugh.
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Well there comes the crux of the situation. If government wish to behave like gangsters, they have about as much moral and legal authority.
Gangsters? how so.
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Gangsters? how so.
Well, getting your way outside of the legal means to do so, is pretty much the behavior of a gangster.
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Well, getting your way outside of the legal means to do so, is pretty much the behavior of a gangster.
How are they getting their way again?
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Oh, and I was pissed there was no formal declaration in 2001.
I am willing to bet serious money that you weren't pissed until someone told you to be pissed.....
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How are they getting their way again?
I think killing someone without due process or a declared Military conflict qualifies.
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I am willing to bet serious money that you weren't pissed until someone told you to be pissed.....
My parents are Vietnam Veterans. I was actually pissed based on their treatment and the way that conflict was waged.
If you are going to commit troops to battle for an extended period of time, a declaration of war is necessary. It changes the rules, it also puts the full national resources behind those in combat.
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I think killing someone without due process or a declared Military conflict qualifies.
He is dead?
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He is dead?
I hear a lot of advocation for him to "disappear"
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My parents are Vietnam Veterans. I was actually pissed based on their treatment and the way that conflict was waged.
If you are going to commit troops to battle for an extended period of time, a declaration of war is necessary. It changes the rules, it also puts the full national resources behind those in combat.
What on earth are you talking about -- the rules change? it puts the full national resources behind those in combat? This isn't the 30s/40s.
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I hear a lot of advocation for him to "disappear"
Freedom of speech, which you clearly have a problem with.
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What on earth are you talking about -- the rules change? it puts the full national resources behind those in combat? This isn't the 30s/40s.
Nope, and we haven't had a clear victory since the 30s and 40s.
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Freedom of speech, which you clearly have a problem with.
Not really, I'm posting that I disagree and view that is the action of a government that has gone gangster.
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Nope, and we haven't had a clear victory since the 30s and 40s.
Wasn't our victory -- it was an allied victory. Know the difference.
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Wasn't our victory -- it was an allied victory. Know the difference.
So whose troops are in Germany and Japan right now?
:rotf:
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Not really, I'm posting that I disagree and view that is the action of a government that has gone gangster.
The government is looking for ways to charge the POS. They have hardly gone gangster. Putin will have a bullet put between his eyes when he is found (if he is lucky). That is what we refer to as reality. Actions. Consequences. I am sure there will be lots of tears at lewrockwell and the DU when he does disappear for good.
I predict a conspiracy theory forum on his disappearance sometime in the near future.
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So whose troops are in Germany and Japan right now?
:rotf:
If you think the United States won WWII all by themselves then there is little I can do for you. Sad actually.
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If you think the United States won WWII all by themselves then there is little I can do for you. Sad actually.
The US and the USSR were clearly the victor of that war, Britain decreased world wide as a power immediately afterward.
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The US and the USSR were clearly the victor of that war, Britain decreased world wide as a power immediately afterward.
Oh my. Oh my. Oh my.
Wait a minute -- I thought lewrockwell was against our entrance into WWII? Wasn't it our fault Japan bombed us?
Australia -- probably are closest ally next to GB, had nothing to do with the war? Come on -- this was a world war in every sense of the word. The entire nation provided resources for the war because we were NOT prepared for war, by any stretch of the imagination. If not for the Soviet Union, there is a one hell of a good chance we never would have won it.
Stop the nonsense. We supplied the war before we could enter it and that saved our allies, but it was an allied win. All equally important. Period.
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Obama should'nt resign. He should be tried for violating Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Some of us have studied the Constitution thoroughly. Obama didn't count on that. Well, "Mr. President", you violated the Constitution and should be removed from office. To many of us the Constitution is almost Holy; it's what seperates us from those 3rd world hell-holes.
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Obama should'nt resign. He should be tried for violating Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Some of us have studied the Constitution thoroughly. Obama didn't count on that. Well, "Mr. President", you violated the Constitution and should be removed from office. To many of us the Constitution is almost Holy; it's what seperates us from those 3rd world hell-holes.
I'm actually crossing my fingers and hope that Issa spends the first 3 months of 2011 investigating the US Treasury department and Tim Geithner and doesn't go for easy smaller scale things.
I hope he bring Mr. Geithner's actions out into the open for the public to see what their government has been up to, and I hope he includes Mr. Paulson's last year in office in the investigation as well.
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However, when I pledge Allegiance to the US Flag, I don't pledge it to the flag it is to the US Constitution the basis for the flag.
You pledge allegiance to the Flag "and to the Republic for which it stands", you take an oath to the Constitution. Jake, there are those of us that have done/still do both.
If you don't pledge an allegiance to the Flag then you are not pledging an allegiance to "the Republic for which it stands". The words to the Pledge are pretty clear cut and have no other meanings.
Are you too good to pledge to the Flag? Apparently, at some point in your youth, you thought yourself too good to swear an actual oath to the Constitution.
If you don't think the Flag is something you should swear an allegiance to and the Constitution is too good for you to swear an oath, what is the point you are trying to make?
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You pledge allegiance to the Flag "and to the Republic for which it stands", you take an oath to the Constitution. Jake, there are those of us that have done/still do both.
If you don't pledge an allegiance to the Flag then you are not pledging an allegiance to "the Republic for which it stands". The words to the Pledge are pretty clear cut and have no other meanings.
Are you too good to pledge to the Flag? Apparently, at some point in your youth, you thought yourself too good to swear an actual oath to the Constitution.
If you don't think the Flag is something you should swear an allegiance to and the Constitution is too good for you to swear an oath, what is the point you are trying to make?
Well you have a flag in your profile pic :yawn:
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Obama should'nt resign. He should be tried for violating Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution. Some of us have studied the Constitution thoroughly. Obama didn't count on that. Well, "Mr. President", you violated the Constitution and should be removed from office. To many of us the Constitution is almost Holy; it's what seperates us from those 3rd world hell-holes.
He should be tried and thrown out. He hasn't done a damn thing FOR the United States. For other Countries, he bends over backwards and sends them our money.
Enough is enough.
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Well you have a flag in your profile pic :yawn:
And you have a fictional character in yours that is a weakling, two faced, pseudo intellectual interested in nothing but himself.
I took an oath to the Constitution to the tune of "up to and including my life" for 22 years and have sworn an allegiance to the Flag and "to the Republic for which it stands". My credentials on this are beyond reproach; especially to you.
How about you try and tackle the question, lefty sage? If you don't think the Flag is something you should swear an allegiance to and the Constitution is too good for you to swear an oath, what is the point you are trying to make?
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If the US Government wants to prosecute PFC Manning for giving information that was classified, I'm fine with that.
If you want to go after a journalist who is not a citizen of the US for publishing information given to him, that is a different manner.
I'm still scratching my head how a PFC, was able to download so much information without having a visit to find out why he downloaded it.
That confuses me too. My son's got security clearance, at least as high as Manning and I know he doesn't have access to this kind of information. What was his MOS that gave him access to such a plethora of information, much of which wasn't related to the military?
Cindie
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The problem with Obama leaving office is that it leaves a Joe in charge, and we all know what a complete tool he is.
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And you have a fictional character in yours that is a weakling, two faced, pseudo intellectual interested in nothing but himself.
I took an oath to the Constitution to the tune of "up to and including my life" for 22 years and have sworn an allegiance to the Flag and "to the Republic for which it stands". My credentials on this are beyond reproach; especially to you.
How about you try and tackle the question, lefty sage? If you don't think the Flag is something you should swear an allegiance to and the Constitution is too good for you to swear an oath, what is the point you are trying to make?
My avatar is a joke.
You avatar is the flag of secessionist that got their ass kicked by General Grant and Sherman.
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The US govt is the least of his worries. Once the Russians get a hold of him he will wish that he was in Gitmo instead.
The Russians don't fool around for sure. They will get them in some ways.
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My avatar is a joke.
You avatar is the flag of secessionist that got their ass kicked by General Grant and Sherman.
:yawn:
It's a symbol that celebrates my Southern heritage and drives the tragically ignorant into fits. Sorry if your pathetic attempt at baiting me is not working.
Now, why don't you answer the question? You can't bother to swear allegiance to the Flag nor could you bother to bring yourself to swear an oath to the Constitution, so what is your point?
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:yawn:
It's a symbol that celebrates my Southern heritage and drives the tragically ignorant into fits. Sorry if your pathetic attempt at baiting me is not working.
Now, why don't you answer the question? You can't bother to swear allegiance to the Flag nor could you bother to bring yourself to swear an oath to the Constitution, so what is your point?
I have no ****ing clue what you were babbling about. I find it odd, you are attacking my patriotism while celebrating your anscestor's rebellion. One that was rightly put down.
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I have no ****ing clue what you were babbling about. I find it odd, you are attacking my patriotism while celebrating your anscestor's rebellion. One that was rightly put down.
Rightly? That sounds like a damned Yankee opinion there.
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Yes, if you are a citizen of this country which he is not.
US Laws apply to me, they don't apply to Australians.
We shoot foreign spies during wartime, particularly if they are attempting to harm the war effort.
International law recognizes as much and has done so for millenia.
The fact that Assange was not operating in the agency of any nation state just means he has no place to run.
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I have no ****ing clue what you were babbling about.
Okay, simpleton, I'll repeat it for you:
However, when I pledge Allegiance to the US Flag, I don't pledge it to the flag it is to the US Constitution the basis for the flag.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,52268.0/msg,581745.html
You pledge allegiance to the Flag "and to the Republic for which it stands", you take an oath to the Constitution. Jake, there are those of us that have done/still do both.
If you don't pledge an allegiance to the Flag then you are not pledging an allegiance to "the Republic for which it stands". The words to the Pledge are pretty clear cut and have no other meanings.
Are you too good to pledge to the Flag? Apparently, at some point in your youth, you thought yourself too good to swear an actual oath to the Constitution.
If you don't think the Flag is something you should swear an allegiance to and the Constitution is too good for you to swear an oath, what is the point you are trying to make?
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,52268.0/msg,581985.html
You can't seem to bring yourself to do swear an allegiance to the Flag "and to the Republic for which it stands" but you will instead pledge "to the US Constitution the basis for the flag". I pointed out that you can swear an allegiance to the standard for which the Republic stands, but it is more accurate to say that you take an oath to the Constitution; that oath being the one all service members take when they raise their right hand to serve and protect your worthless ass.
I was simply pointing out that you didn't have the balls to swear an oath to the Constitution and you can't seem to bring yourself to even pledge an allegiance to the Stars and Stripes.
Do you get it now, DUmbass? Did I make it simple enough for you?
I find it odd, you are attacking my patriotism
Anybody, and I do mean anybody, who is stupid/shallow/selfish/ignorant/willfully destructive enough to vote liberal democrat deserves their patriotism questioned. Why, you may be asking yourself? Very simply because they are not interested in preserving our Constitution nor our way of life. Nor are a majority of them willing to put their asses on the line to protect anything.
Kind of like, well, you.
You may have your fans here, and you may be considered by some to be "reasonable" or "rational" or whatever, but you disgust the hell out of me. Especially when you try and claim any kind of "patriotism".
So, yeah, any claim of patriotism you may try to make is pretty much dead in my mind.
while celebrating your anscestor's rebellion
I have two sets of ancestors that fought for their independence; one set that fought for their freedom from a king, and one set that fought for their freedom from hostile states. Right or wrong, they did it to have the freedom to live their lives as they saw fit; not have it dictated to them from a far off centralized government.
You know, DUmbass, liberty and freedom. The very same things you didn't have the nutsack to defend yourself.
One that was rightly put down.
My, my, Jake.... how very.... Hamiltonian of you. You would have make King George very proud back when the shitty little colonists were getting all wee-weed up.
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I have no ****ing clue what you were babbling about. I find it odd, you are attacking my patriotism while celebrating your anscestor's rebellion. One that was rightly put down.
You did say that you didn't pledge your allegiance to the flag.