The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on March 31, 2008, 01:52:38 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3085188
Oh my.
The crooked tale primitive, who longs for the Good Old Days when he was young and irresponsible.
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 11:58 AM
Original message
Disabled Men, Woman Beaten Over Not Paying 'Fee' For Being White
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Four men in Orlando were charged with a hate crime after they pummeled a 62-year-old woman and her two mentally-challenged companions at a public park after they didn't pay a "fee" for being white, police said.
Investigators said the victims were walking into a Kaley Park when they were confronted by Christopher Colbert, Erick Golden, Willie Pritts and Antoniette Boone.
Police said the victims were told that since they are white, they had to pay a fee to be in the park.
When the three didn't pay, the men beat them, officers said.
http://www.local6.com/news/15747448/detail.html
Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. I guess this certainly falls into the category of a hate crime
I'm just surprised there weren't any comments after over 125 views.
For some reason, franksolich isn't surprised.
L1A1Rocker (940 posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, I think this one deserves some recommendations
L1A1Rocker (940 posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very disturbing
And it goes to the heart of why so many are choosing to arm themselves these days.
riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is unusual.
White people don't usually get the benefit of hate crime designation. It's usually just crime.
FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. "the benefit of hate crime legislation"
yes, because everyone is hating on white people all the time.....excuse me, straight white men.
selador (689 posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. sarcasm is misplaced
the statistics show that
1) MOST crime is intraracial . white on white. black on black . etc.
but that when INTERRacial crime occurs, whites are MORE likely to be victims than offenders.
so, your sarcasm is misplaced.
also, there are cases where hate crimes HAVE been less likely to be charged because victims have been white. there are politix involved.
see, for example, this incident.
note that seattle has under 10% african american population, yet in this incident, over 3/4 off the offenders were identified as african american by VIDEOTAPE evidence. and that NUMEROUS examples of racial epithets being yelled towards whites were heard. DESPITE this, initially the police/prosecutors refused to consider the hate crime aspect. later, they somewhat recanted, as this quote shows.
personally, as a minority, who HAS been the victim of a hate crime, i am still against hate crime designation. i am 100% for equal rights: gay marriage, etc. but i do not believe in creating special victim classes based on perception of race, sexual preference etc. i think its too easy to inject politics and racial bias into said crime's prosecution and that it creates somewhat of a tiered justice respone. and again, i have personally suffered from hate crimes, so it's not something i take lightly.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/mardi16.shtml
"Three-quarters of the more than 100 people identified so far as suspects in crimes committed during the Fat Tuesday riot are black, Seattle police sources say.
Many victims say some of the random beatings in Pioneer Square were clearly tinged with racial hatred. And in at least two Mardi Gras incidents under investigation, African American attackers were heard yelling racial slurs at white victims, police said.
In another instance, a woman witnessing the beating of two white men by a group of blacks heard one of the attackers say, "That's what you stupid white people get."
Police officials say they're not actively investigating any hate crimes, but they are no longer insisting there is no evidence of underlying racism or an apparent prevalence of black-on-white violence."
note: NO LONGER insisting...
notice also that during the riots, police were ORDERED by cop-o-crat supervisors NOT to intervene. arguably the worst case of (officially ordered) police cowardice i have ever seen in my life. cop administrators were more worried aobut being seen on CNN as "thugs" with batons than they were about saving the lives of innocent victims. iow, it was "reverse brutality" so to speak. kind of ironically, they (the administrators) thought it better to let people riot (and kill and injure people) than dare being seen as the "bad guys" swinging sticks and lord forbid enforcing the law.
i know lots of seattle officers, and they think it is one of their darkest hours ever. it shows the craven political considerations of police chiefs (appointed cop-o-crats) who are more concerned with APPEARANCE than with justice and helping innocents.
FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. "the statistics show..."
link please
and the article you linked to describing the Mardi Gras riot in Seattle is from March 16, 2001. Either this is the most comprehensive criminal investigation in U.S. history, or the Seattle PD would have concluded their investigations long ago if these assaults as hate crimes. Any update?
riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. But when they do get singled out, they should recieve the same treatment as anyone else.
Frankly, I have a problem with the entire hate crime category. Mexican gangs are wiping out Blacks in the L.A. area, to take over their turf. But they are singling out Blacks and targeting them based on race. Even non-gang member Blacks are being killed. Isn't this a 'hate crime'? But are they charged with a hate crime on top of murder charges? No. Hate crime legislation is informally seen as a way to curb white racism.
The charges of standard criminal code are enough, no special laws are needed for anyone- race, gender or orientation.
FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Singled out?
You mean like this?
after which follows photographs of racial violence in the south from circa 50 years before March 16, 2001
Zywiec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. No, singled out like this...
http://www.local6.com/news/15747448/detail.html
link is to another story about the story posted by the crooked tale primitive
FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. So these four assholes in Orlando make up for 400 years of terrorism waged on minorities?
Hmmm.
DadOf2LittleAngels (1000+ posts) Mar-31-08 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. No these four assholes
show that racism hate and bigotry know *no* skin color..
riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I think your assumption is wrong.
You can't make up for that, period. Those people aren't alive anymore, nor are their abusers. the reference is to the ancient photographs of racial violence in the south posted by the Fred primitive above All we can do to honor the memory of the former is to learn from them. Make the law fair in the here and now. Not try to make it more fair for some. Assigning tiers of justice based on ethnicity, orientation, gender only brings obfuscation not clarity, and it's a very slippery slope.
IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Right, I think crime is wrong no matter who the victims are.
So I'm glad those guys got caught. I don't see what anyone's ethnicity has to with anything in this case. I'm not sure what else to say.
Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. "I don't see what anyone's ethnicity "
You are reading the same post I am aren't you? They were beaten for not paying a fee to the thugs due to their being white. At least thats what the story I saw said.
marshall (977 posts) Mon Mar-31-08 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. The crime was against a race rather than an individual
They weren't trying to rob them just to get money and they weren't randomly beating up just anybody. They were targeting whites only. It is a crime against society.
northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. i think the good news is that we know these thungs aren't racist, at least, since only the dominant class can be racist (seriously, someone told me this on this board last week)
so I don't see how it can be a hate crime?
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's a hate crime because they hated to do it to them
But did it anyway
And dominant depends on area. Where I live the dominant group is hispanic and I am the minority (as far small businesses, population, schools, etc).
itsjustme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Throw the book at them
umberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Mar-31-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. Developmental disabilities are the last frontier of civil rights.
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They do twist themselves upvery tightly to assure themsleves that it is whitey's fault all the time.
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Lurking DUmmies, is this a hate crime ?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
:censored:
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ORLANDO, Fla -- Police said the victims were told that since they are white, they had to pay a fee to be in the park.
When the three didn't pay, the men beat them, officers said.
Wow! Disney's Animal Kingdom is getting to be a rough place.
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ORLANDO, Fla -- Police said the victims were told that since they are white, they had to pay a fee to be in the park.
When the three didn't pay, the men beat them, officers said.
Wow! Disney's Animal Kingdom is getting to be a rough place.
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What are you implying? I just want to know, be honest.
*Red*
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What are you implying? I just want to know, be honest.
*Red*
What do you think I meant?
Com'n Kharis/Taylor, I don't play these kind of frickin' games and you know it. This isn't CU where you've got some admin giving you crap to try and get under your skin, and I've never done that to you for any reason anyway. So don't read into things that aren't there, because I can tell you right now that you're wasting your time looking, because it isn't there.
Otherwise, nice to see you here. :)
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What are you implying? I just want to know, be honest.
*Red*
What do you think I meant?
Com'n Kharis/Taylor, I don't play these kind of frickin' games and you know it. This isn't CU where you've got some admin giving you crap to try and get under your skin, and I've never done that to you for any reason anyway. So don't read into things that aren't there, because I can tell you right now that you're wasting your time looking, because it isn't there.
Otherwise, nice to see you here. :)
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What I thought you meant... think the most malicious thing ever (as relevant to the situation), add a little bit of juvenile and you've basically got it.
It seems you understand why I got defensive.
*Red*
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Lurking DUmmies, is this a hate crime ?
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/newsom.asp
:censored:
Yes, but does it make up for 400 years of slavery and oppression?[/RevWright]
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You can tell some of the DU'ers really wanted the races to be reversed in the story.
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What I thought you meant... think the most malicious thing ever (as relevant to the situation), add a little bit of juvenile and you've basically got it.
It seems you understand why I got defensive.
*Red*
Let's see, the most malicious thing ever as relevant to the situation. Hmmmm ......
We got a group of scum who decided to beat up an old lady and some handicapped people because they didn't like their skin color. I would call people like that "animals." How about you? Would you say that scum who did that type of thing are behaving like animals? I sure would.
Now I don't know of any reasonable explanation for that to make you defensive, but I'll be happy to hear why.
.
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What I thought you meant... think the most malicious thing ever (as relevant to the situation), add a little bit of juvenile and you've basically got it.
It seems you understand why I got defensive.
*Red*
Let's see, the most malicious thing ever as relevant to the situation. Hmmmm ......
We got a group of scum who decided to beat up an old lady and some handicapped people because they didn't like their skin color. I would call people like that "animals." How about you? Would you say that scum who did that type of thing are behaving like animals? I sure would.
Now I don't know of any reasonable explanation for that to make you defensive, but I'll be happy to hear why.
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Do I really have to go into why it would make me defensive? Animals plays into the whole "sub-human" stereotype of black people.
They're scum, they're inhuman... That was never up for debate. What I guess you find quizzical is my reaction. I gave my reason, it's up to you to accept it.
*Red*
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Red - in all fairness, when I read USA's post, it sounded like he was making a snarky comment about the location: Orlando, being the home of Disney's parks (which includes Animal Kingdom). Sometimes a joke falls flat on a messageboard.
Let's keep that in mind along with the fact that we all know each other from other boards and we all know there may be baggage. I would hate to see something taken out of context and words spoken that are hard to take back (by anyone).
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What I thought you meant... think the most malicious thing ever (as relevant to the situation), add a little bit of juvenile and you've basically got it.
It seems you understand why I got defensive.
*Red*
Let's see, the most malicious thing ever as relevant to the situation. Hmmmm ......
We got a group of scum who decided to beat up an old lady and some handicapped people because they didn't like their skin color. I would call people like that "animals." How about you? Would you say that scum who did that type of thing are behaving like animals? I sure would.
Now I don't know of any reasonable explanation for that to make you defensive, but I'll be happy to hear why.
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Do I really have to go into why it would make me defensive? Animals plays into the whole "sub-human" stereotype of black people.
They're scum, they're inhuman... That was never up for debate. What I guess you find quizzical is my reaction. I gave my reason, it's up to you to accept it.
*Red*
Got a little Denny Pierce thing going there, I see.
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who?
*Red*
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Do I really have to go into why it would make me defensive? Animals plays into the whole "sub-human" stereotype of black people.
They're scum, they're inhuman... That was never up for debate. What I guess you find quizzical is my reaction. I gave my reason, it's up to you to accept it.
*Red*
There's an easy way to avoid that; quit thinking people are saying things to try and offend others.
What these scum did was evil, I don't care what race they were or the race of those they did it to. Race had absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that they acted like a bunch of animals.
I can assure you that when I post, I am not someone who's going to go back and try and consider all the possible ways someone might try and misread what I've said or all the possible ways someone could find offense. I'm just never going to do that because I already know it's not what I was doing in the first place. If someone wants to read stereotypes or whatever into anything I say, that's their problem.
You're among friends here. No one cares what race you are or is here to make jokes at your expense. We aren't gator. Believe it, Kharis, just believe it, because it's true. Really, it is. Just ask around. Others will tell you the same thing.
.
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who?
*Red*
Google it.
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Do I really have to go into why it would make me defensive? Animals plays into the whole "sub-human" stereotype of black people.
They're scum, they're inhuman... That was never up for debate. What I guess you find quizzical is my reaction. I gave my reason, it's up to you to accept it.
*Red*
There's an easy way to avoid that; quit thinking people are saying things to try and offend others.
What these scum did was evil, I don't care what race they were or the race of those they did it to. Race had absolutely nothing to do with my opinion that they acted like a bunch of animals.
I can assure you that when I post, I am not someone who's going to go back and try and consider all the possible ways someone might try and misread what I've said or all the possible ways someone could find offense. I'm just never going to do that because I already know it's not what I was doing in the first place. If someone wants to read stereotypes or whatever into anything I say, that's their problem.
You're among friends here. No one cares what race you are or is here to make jokes at your expense. We aren't gator. Believe it, Kharis, just believe it, because it's true. Really, it is. Just ask around.
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I didn't think anything of anyone till I read it. Seriously. I wasn't looking for offense, hence why I asked for clarification.
Give me time.
*Red*
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Give me time.
*Red*
Fair enough. But I assure you that I'm not aware of anyone here who doesn't consider you to be a valuable and fun member, including me.
:cheersmate:
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3095768
ccharles000 (94 posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:41 PM
Original message
Why is there so much hate in the world.
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 04:52 PM by ccharles000
http://www.local6.com/news/15747448/detail.html
Disabled Men, Woman Beaten Over Not Paying 'Fee' For Being White
POSTED: 11:15 pm EDT March 30, 2008
UPDATED: 6:01 am EDT March 31, 2008
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Four men in Orlando were charged with a hate crime after they pummeled a 62-year-old woman and her two mentally-challenged companions at a public park after they didn't pay a "fee" for being white, police said.
Investigators said the victims were walking into a Kaley Park when they were confronted by Christopher Colbert, Erick Golden, Willie Pritts and Antoniette Boone.
Police said the victims were told that since they are white, they had to pay a fee to be in the park.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/hatewatch/item.jsp?hid=1...
LSdemocrat (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. The world's elementary and secondary education system sucks
11 Bravo (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Irrational anger at the incorrect use of "there", "their", and "they're"?
:whatever:
Birthmark (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Because hate is cheap.
What it lacks in effectiveness is made up for by the focus it provides for some people.
Personally, I don't have the attention span or energy for hate.
Red Zelda (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Children are too often dismissed as "children."
And all things military are celebrated as good, while sex is bad.
Stupid hominids.
kwolf68 (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thugs...
Typical of predators...going after the weak.
bush still has to go (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk n/t
double :whatever:
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Quote
bush still has to go (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Rush Limbaugh and his ilk n/t
Rush Limbaugh made black teen thugs beat up white people?
ooooooookay...
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Hate=Liberals enough said.
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Hate=Liberals enough said.
H5 for speaking truth to power - I think.
:lmao:
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There's probably a lot of reasons there's so much Hate in the world, but as for the primitives Hating in particular, usually most of the time it's because someone has something, and a primitive wants it without working to get it.
It's as simple as that.
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There's probably a lot of reasons there's so much Hate in the world, but as for the primitives Hating in particular, usually most of the time it's because someone has something, and a primitive wants it without working to get it.
It's as simple as that.
There is another ingredient. Their hate also stems from the frustration generated by the reality that there are a whole lot of folks who won't accept their twisted version of reality as Gospel. They also know people make fun of them unmercifully. It causes them great mental anguish that they cannot run the world by decree, and that it's not illegal to make fun of them.
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Oh, ccharles0000. All you have to do to understand why there is so much hate in the world is to take a good, long look around DU.
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MERGED Servonaut's post with the one frank posted earlier.
Thanks,
DixieBelle
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From a different DU thread posted here...
matcom (1000+ posts) Wed Apr-02-08 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. "you can't be a democrat and a christian"??
last time *I* would step foot in that cess-pool
why you people surround yourselves with assholes on a regular basis is beyond me.
Is there any real doubt which side is truly compassionate, and which side is truly hateful? ::)
And the DUmp dumping on itself... :lmao:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5359996