The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on March 27, 2008, 03:21:16 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=310x806
Oh my.
shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-05-07 04:45 PM
Original message
Do 'gas boosts' really do anything?
You can buy bottles of them for a few bucks. They say if you add them to a tank, you'll get more pep or something. I've tried them a couple of times, and they didn't make anything worse, but I can't tell if I really got better mileage or anything. Does anyone else have experience with these things? Are they useless?
DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-14-07 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. If you buy your gas all over the place or from no-name stations
It's best to run a bottle of Gumout or one of the Lucas brands of gas line & injector cleaners once every 3 months. Keeps the residue from building in the injectors. Regarding octane boosters, if the engine has "knock" go up to the next grade of gas.
Octane boosters ONLY fake out the engine computer to enable it to run a bit more timing hence waste more gas without noticible performance gains. A good way to actually clean your combustion chambers of excess carbon (which creates hot spots and knock) is Chevron Techtron. I have successfully used it for over 20 years in all types of vehicles and it works. One $9 bottle twice a year in a full tank of gas works miracles.
jimmil Donating Member (20 posts) Nov-20-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Just use a good cleaner and you will be good to go..
I'm new so you can take my experience or not. I've built a few cars in my life and even worked on one or two. I worked for TWR on the engine management for the Jaguar XJ220 and the Arrows F1. I've worked on a few engine management systems here also. I did build some street cars for some rather wealthy people and they all were 200++ mph cars (my new life is something totally different however). Techron is great stuff. It is a detergent based cleaner and that is the key. Red Line is the only other injector cleaner that I know of that is detergent based. The rest are solvent based and can damage the windings on some of the lucus type injectors.
As for the gas additives, those are usually tolulene based and are not very good for anything and are especially bad for O2 sensors. It is much cheaper to go to Home Depot and buy it by the gallon if you are just crazy to get some. It acts as an octane booster. An octane booster does NOT add more BTUs to the fuel, rather it retards the combustion allowing for a higher compression and more advance on the spark. With the new computers I have worked on there is a limit to the advance that is dialed in using algorithms based on load, temperature, map or maf readings, throttle position, etc. During the test phase of engine development the engineers specifically target the performance of the engine to gas octanes. Adding something to the fuel will not necessarily make the engine perform better as the engine has not been tuned to take advantage of the higher octane. The newer computers do not keep adding spark until knock and retard it, they have a limit, again set according to load, temperature, etc.
The best advice has already been given. Use a can of Chevron Techron or Red Line Fuel Injector Cleaner once every few months to keep the system clean. Use a good quality motor oil and change the oil filter often. The only other advice I can give you is to run the piss out of your car. Seriously, that will clean the engine out better than anything. Babying the car is the absolute worst thing you can do to it.
jimmil Donating Member (20 posts) Dec-11-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You should see things now
I had a friend who went to AVL after TWR collapsed and worked on the Toyota F1 engine. It had no cams, twisted to 23,500 RPM, and put out 950 Hp from a naturally aspirated V10. I used to have all the stats on the motor but they have disappeared over the years. Of course, F1 being F1, the engine never made it out of the shop. Now, unfortunately, I am putting my computer skills to work in a completely different industry.
I am finally in the process of building my little Corvette after pushing the last customer out of my shop recently. Since gas has skyrocketed it won't be quite as powerful as I once envisioned. I am shooting for a little over 600 Hp from a 402ci motor, JE Pistons, Oliver rods, a custom built crank (thing cost me $5K), stock cams for drivability, and still get around 23 miles per gallon in normal driving using a 3.48 rear end. It will be inspection ready as I put the new Random Tech cats onto full length headers before running them out 3" exhaust. I am also using the exhaust to pull a vacuum or at least some from the crankcase for better ring seal. Compression will be 11.5:1 and I will control the spark and fuel with an aftermarket computer. After this car is built that will be it for me.
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jimmil Donating Member (20 posts) Nov-20-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
2. Just use a good cleaner and you will be good to go..
I'm new so you can take my experience or not. I've built a few cars in my life and even worked on one or two. I worked for TWR on the engine management for the Jaguar XJ220 and the Arrows F1. I've worked on a few engine management systems here also. I did build some street cars for some rather wealthy people and they all were 200++ mph cars (my new life is something totally different however). Techron is great stuff. It is a detergent based cleaner and that is the key. Red Line is the only other injector cleaner that I know of that is detergent based. The rest are solvent based and can damage the windings on some of the lucus type injectors.
As for the gas additives, those are usually tolulene based and are not very good for anything and are especially bad for O2 sensors. It is much cheaper to go to Home Depot and buy it by the gallon if you are just crazy to get some. It acts as an octane booster. An octane booster does NOT add more BTUs to the fuel, rather it retards the combustion allowing for a higher compression and more advance on the spark. With the new computers I have worked on there is a limit to the advance that is dialed in using algorithms based on load, temperature, map or maf readings, throttle position, etc. During the test phase of engine development the engineers specifically target the performance of the engine to gas octanes. Adding something to the fuel will not necessarily make the engine perform better as the engine has not been tuned to take advantage of the higher octane. The newer computers do not keep adding spark until knock and retard it, they have a limit, again set according to load, temperature, etc.
The best advice has already been given. Use a can of Chevron Techron or Red Line Fuel Injector Cleaner once every few months to keep the system clean. Use a good quality motor oil and change the oil filter often. The only other advice I can give you is to run the piss out of your car. Seriously, that will clean the engine out better than anything. Babying the car is the absolute worst thing you can do to it.
Kind of an interesting quote.
He is right about Techron,that is the best do it yourself stuff you can run through your fuels system on the market..it really works.
Now I am in no way an engineer but it somehow I can`t help think he moves into the "if you can`t astound them with brillance then baffel them with bullshit" area.
I can`t contradict his assertions because I simply don`t know but his statement about retarding combutsion increasing compression is a mis-statement.
Perhaps he means increasing compression or more acurrately combustion pressures.
I am not aware of the company TWR he is speaking but there was a company in the engine parts business several years ago named TRW.
Maybe it was a typo but if that is what he is referring to then to say it wrong twice in different posts makes me suspicious.
I can find no info on the V10 engine he talks of and have no idea how it worked with no camshafts.
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Techron is good stuff....at one time I remember that was the only additive that GM would suggest...and I am thinking it also had a GM part number at dealerships for a while...or maybe it still does...
There is an additive "Seafoam" that I have used in a couple different applications...pretty good stuff with alot of uses...can also be added to oil...great on small engines if they are not running right as well...gets the "gunk" out..especially if you leave gas in the tank all winter..
Intersting topic Frank!
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Techron is good stuff....at one time I remember that was the only additive that GM would suggest...and I am thinking it also had a GM part number at dealerships for a while...or maybe it still does...
There is an additive "Seafoam" that I have used in a couple different applications...pretty good stuff with alot of uses...can also be added to oil...great on small engines if they are not running right as well...gets the "gunk" out..especially if you leave gas in the tank all winter..
Intersting topic Frank!
I dunno, Rob.
During wet weather, I use 15% ethanol.
During dry weather, I use 0% ethanol.
Does this do the same thing?
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I use Power Service Diesel Kleen + cetane boost in my car. A little splash when I fill up.
The engine seems to run "smoother" when I'm using it and maybe a little quieter.
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I use Power Service Diesel Kleen + cetane boost in my car. A little splash when I fill up.
The engine seems to run "smoother" when I'm using it and maybe a little quieter.
Have you done a purge on your diesel engine yet? I've "heard" they should be done regularly (every 24k miles).
Speaking of gas boosters, this came up on the radio today: http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html
I'm not sure what it is, but it looks like a simple way to atomize water and inject it into the cylinder.
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I use Power Service Diesel Kleen + cetane boost in my car. A little splash when I fill up.
The engine seems to run "smoother" when I'm using it and maybe a little quieter.
Have you done a purge on your diesel engine yet? I've "heard" they should be done regularly (every 24k miles).
Speaking of gas boosters, this came up on the radio today: http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html
I'm not sure what it is, but it looks like a simple way to atomize water and inject it into the cylinder.
I had the injectors replaced, maybe at 20k miles. I'm almost at 30k right now. That was a different issue with the engine. I haven't done any kind of "flush" but nothing's recommended in my manual. It goes in in about 3 weeks, when I hit 30k for an oil change and all that jazz.
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I use Power Service Diesel Kleen + cetane boost in my car. A little splash when I fill up.
The engine seems to run "smoother" when I'm using it and maybe a little quieter.
Have you done a purge on your diesel engine yet? I've "heard" they should be done regularly (every 24k miles).
Speaking of gas boosters, this came up on the radio today: http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html
I'm not sure what it is, but it looks like a simple way to atomize water and inject it into the cylinder.
I had the injectors replaced, maybe at 20k miles. I'm almost at 30k right now. That was a different issue with the engine. I haven't done any kind of "flush" but nothing's recommended in my manual. It goes in in about 3 weeks, when I hit 30k for an oil change and all that jazz.
I am not sure what all that is but the one thing that is bad for a diesel is to baby it.
They are meant to be run hard and slugging them around will carbon everything up.
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I use Power Service Diesel Kleen + cetane boost in my car. A little splash when I fill up.
The engine seems to run "smoother" when I'm using it and maybe a little quieter.
Have you done a purge on your diesel engine yet? I've "heard" they should be done regularly (every 24k miles).
Speaking of gas boosters, this came up on the radio today: http://www.auto-facts.org/water4gas-scam.html
I'm not sure what it is, but it looks like a simple way to atomize water and inject it into the cylinder.
I had the injectors replaced, maybe at 20k miles. I'm almost at 30k right now. That was a different issue with the engine. I haven't done any kind of "flush" but nothing's recommended in my manual. It goes in in about 3 weeks, when I hit 30k for an oil change and all that jazz.
I am not sure what all that is but the one thing that is bad for a diesel is to baby it.
They are meant to be run hard and slugging them around will carbon everything up.
I love that my engine is barely broken in. :-)
It just gets it's oil changed every 10k. The injectors were setting off a check engine light. *shrug*
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Techron is good stuff....at one time I remember that was the only additive that GM would suggest...and I am thinking it also had a GM part number at dealerships for a while...or maybe it still does...
There is an additive "Seafoam" that I have used in a couple different applications...pretty good stuff with alot of uses...can also be added to oil...great on small engines if they are not running right as well...gets the "gunk" out..especially if you leave gas in the tank all winter..
Intersting topic Frank!
I dunno, Rob.
During wet weather, I use 15% ethanol.
During dry weather, I use 0% ethanol.
Does this do the same thing?
Ethanol blended fuel does about the same as adding "heet" Not quite the same, but a good measure in cold weather.
Some of the better brands of fuel, have detergents added to help the fuel system as well.