LDS bishop shot to death in California church (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50185237-76/church-shot-bishop-police.html.csp)
The Associated Press
Updated Aug 29, 2010 08:59PM
Visalia, Calif. • A Mormon church official was shot dead between services on Sunday, and less than an hour later, the man suspected of the crime also died after a shootout with police.
Clay Sannar, 42, a lay bishop with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Visalia, southeast of Fresno, died after being shot in his office, said Visalia police chief Colleen Mestas.
<snip>
Sannar was the general manager of Soil Basics, a fertilizer company in Visalia, according to the company’s website. He had six children, including a 6-month-old infant.
Ralph Jordan, a church leader, said the suspect walked into the church complex, asked for a leader of the church, and shot Sannar. He seemed to not know Sannar.
“The suspect is not a member of the church,†Jordan added.
LINK (http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50185237-76/church-shot-bishop-police.html.csp)
Anybody want to bet me that this guy wasn't hot and bothered over Prop 8?
Judging by the comments, teh gheys sure didn't take long to start dancing on the guy's grave.
Another possibility is that the shooter just wanted to get back at Mormons as a way to lash out at Beck, etc.
Either way, there's one less libtard in the world. And they claim WE'RE the violent ones.
Is nowhere sacred anymore? (No pun intended) This is just further proof of how far our values have diminished. Who shoots a clergy member?
Is nowhere sacred anymore? (No pun intended) This is just further proof of how far our values have diminished. Who shoots a clergy member?
Still, your point is valid. Murder is murder and especially heinous when we bring it into a place of worship - ANY place of worship.
In Islam murder comes from the place of worship.
In Islam murder comes from the place of worship.
I understand your point, but not all mosques house murderers. Where and when that kind of thing occurs, all bets are off. You have to do what you have to do to protect yourself and that doesn't take into account location.
If there's a punk holed up in a mosque sniping away at people, a well-placed RPG round would take care of that problem -- and too bad about "collateral damage".
MORRIS: Yes, I don't know, Laura. That's a question for a shrink, not for a political adviser. He's out of his mind for doing it.
But the point I want to make is that the Center for Security Policy, run by Frank Gaffney, did a study of 100 mosques in the United States. Twenty of them were religious institutions where Sharia law was not present, and nobody talked about it. They talked about worshiping God and loving God. And those are great. I wouldn't mind if you have one right on Ground Zero itself. [Godot would]
The other 80 were Sharia institutions, which is what this mosque is going to be, essentially a law school to study Sharia law and spawn adherence and devotees. The reason the radical Muslim community is so anxious for this thing to be built is because they want to counter the assimilationist tendencies of Muslims in the United States.
VISALIA -- The Modesto man accused of gunning down a church leader Sunday had a history of mental illness and often expressed hatred toward the Mormon church, court documents and interviews show.
Kenneth James Ward, 47, came to the attention of Modesto police several times from 1998 to 2004. On one occasion he threatened to kill a Mormon bishop, the city's police chief and police officers, according to court records.
Family members on Monday described those episodes as exceptions. Mike Ward, 44, of Bakersfield said his brother was "a lovable guy" who was not violent -- as long as he kept taking the medications that controlled his mental illness.
But the majority of mosques are terrorist-recruitment centers.
And Sharia=radicalism=terrorism. I tried to find Gaffney's survey, but couldn't, but see no reason not to take Morris at his word about the survey. Assuming that the mosques were randomly selected, that means fully 80% of all mosques are terrorist-recruitment centers.
I fully realize there's a lot of antipathy toward ALL of Islam, and to honest, I share some of that myself. I just don't trust the bastards. Not any of them - especially after 9/11 and the bullshit that's going on in the UK and that we're starting to see here.
That said, I'm absolutely not convinced that mosques automatically inhabit murderers. That's the premise here, not whether or not mosques are terrorist recruitment centers.
Not all mosques house murderers. Straw men are not allowed in this discussion. For now, at least.
...Not saying that they all house murderers...snip
In Islam murder comes from the place of worship.
Thank you for your clarification. The rest of your post was beyond the scope of the issue and the refutation I originally made.
You said:
The implication being, of course, that Muslims foster and practice murder within their houses of worship irrespective of faith. You made such a statement slamming Islam when we were discussing murdering people inside a house of worship.
Claiming that Muslims foster and practice murder within their houses of worship would be absurd on its face. That's MY point.
Quote from: Godot showed up on Today at 02:02:43 pm
...Not saying that they all house murderers...snip
Thank you for your clarification. The rest of your post was beyond the scope of the issue and the refutation I originally made.
You said:
Quote
In Islam murder comes from the place of worship.
The implication being, of course, that Muslims foster and practice murder within their houses of worship irrespective of faith. You made such a statement slamming Islam when we were discussing murdering people inside a house of worship.
Claiming that Muslims foster and practice murder within their houses of worship would be absurd on its face. That's MY point.
Is nowhere sacred anymore? (No pun intended) This is just further proof of how far our values have diminished. Who shoots a clergy member?
I am asserting that murder of infidels--among those who are recruited for active terrorist duty--is fostered within mosques, and there is nothing absurd on its face about that claim. It is absurd to claim the opposite.
Godot:
Sounds just a wee bit paranoid there. I'll concede that the entire Islamic faith is based on supremacy over infidels, but I reject the notion that every stinkin' mosque on the planet is "fostering murder". That's pure fantasy. Or paranoia. Take your pick.
I hosed up, Godot. It was thundley4's post, not yours. My apologies.
My point still stands, however. As much as I loathe Islam, the average mosque is not a house of murderers.
I did not write that every mosque on earth is fostering murder. I wrote that a very high percentage of mosques--well over 50%--are doing so. If recruiting terrorists to wage violent jihad on innocent people isn't "fostering murder," what is it? You can call it what you like.
You can reject the truth and name it paranoia, if that pleases you. That's willful self-delusion or disingenuousness for disingenuousness' sake. Take your pick.
I'm glad, though that we agree--and I recall that we did so agree from other posts--on the nature of Islam, in bold above. Now ask yourself: if the religion/political doctrine is inherently violently supremacist, then exactly why does it seem so fantastical to you to deduce--even absent empirical evidence, of which we have mountains--that their places of worship indoctrinate their adherents accordingly, and with directed purpose? In light of that nature, the fantasy would be to imagine that Islam is as we agree it is--violent and bigoted--and that its places of worship preach a diametrically opposed message of tolerance, peace, universal brotherhood, and love.
I simply think you've been reading too much of Frank Gaffney. And others just as bent on intrigue, murder and drama read too much into Scott Ritter and the rest of the UN tainted turds/pedophiles. Each of these guys has their perspective based on their own agendas and each is supported by those who worship the ground they walk on. Meh. I'm not so certain about either.
Your "mountain" of empirical evidence that you cite, even in your post, is completely anecdotal at this point. And your term "indoctrination" can easily be interpreted as worshipful study.
If I was a nutbar bent on killing a religious person, I think a Mormon would be my last choice.
In the 1850's, Mormons annihilated an entire wagon train of Arkansans coming through Utah because a couple of Mormons were murdered in Arkansas.
Just sayin'. :uhsure:
If I was a nutbar bent on killing a religious person, I think a Mormon would be my last choice.
In the 1850's, Mormons annihilated an entire wagon train of Arkansans coming through Utah because a couple of Mormons were murdered in Arkansas.
Just sayin'. :uhsure:
So just show me ONE faith that does not have blood shed in their past either to them or to others. This Mormon faith has as all faiths under gone a few changes since its founding. Protestants no longer burn people at the steak in Salem Mass. --By the way what was done to those people back then was totall illegal by the laws of the time.
Any way, the Church is finally coming into the current times, they now allow nonwhites to have a chance to become part of the church directors boards.
Mormons have the money, they have to as there is so much we spend a fortune on each year they never use or buy. NO, booze, tobacco, chocolate,coffee, tea or soda with caffeine. No chocolate ever for life, hot coco or a rum and coke. I do not know if they eat pork or other dietary no-no's.
All I know is that they have a years supply of food on hand for each member of the family, wear unusual underware with strange symbols on them, baptise the dead, George Washington is now in Mormon Heaven don't matter he likes it or not.
I have to mention the appearance of the members themselves. Every Mormon I have ever met looked like they could have been on Lawrence Welks Show. FLAWLESS, not one zit, healthy as a horse and Virginal, even the old men that sang and played in the band looked Healthy.
They do have some problems with humane nature. Donny and Marie Osmond ran into that . Marie was married in the Inner Sanctum meaning she paid a pretty penny to be married for life. Left her with a problem when she divorced.
Then there is the Mormon Bible that I was given by a friend that confuses and boggles my mind. But then some parts of the Bible make me wonder what the heck was really going on.
I lump the Mormons into the Christian faith, same as I do the Quakers, Christian Scientists, Seventh Day Adventists, Greek and Russian Orthodox, the Amish, the Catholic and the Jews for Jesus'.
Just to make this post interesting for me, do you Crock feel that because the American Indian slaughtered the people of waggon trains that were headed West that today we should be blaming them for what their Ancestors did to protect their life style.?
Christ, Vesta, take a Midol.