The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: thundley4 on July 19, 2010, 11:23:13 AM
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Archae (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-18-10 10:31 PM
Original message
August 6th, 65 years ago.
It's coming up on 65 years since the destruction of Hiroshima.
I don't know what our leaders were thinking.
Before and after.
But I did have an uncle who was going from the European theater to the Japanese one.
He told me what it was like for him.
He had flown as top-turret gunner on many missions, bombing Germany.
But going to the Japanese theater scared the patooties out of him.
Japanese suicide planes were not only targeting ships.
They targeted planes as well.
How could they effectively fight against THAT?
Even if they did survive, Japanese camps for Allied prisoners were barbaric.
The lucky ones were slave laborers.
So one day, the radio has a special bulletin.
An atomic bomb was dropped on a Japanese city.
Within the next couple weeks, the Emperor himself intervened, and shamed the "Make war until we all die" Japanese factions into saying "That's enough."
So my uncle was able to come home, and was back in Wisconsin by November.
How many others felt the same way as my uncle?
How many still do?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8772246
I must say that I'm surprised by the majority of the replies to this. Most of the DUmmies realize that dropping the bombs was necessary and saved more lives than they took.
That is except for this moron.
jimlup (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-19-10 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
40. There is strong historical evidence that the A-bomb was not the primary reason for Japan's surrender
Nor did it save "a million American lives", as the common but false meme would have people believe.
Japan's war council didn't even know what had happened to Hiroshima when they surrendered. They had reports, so the knew something catastrophic had happened. But what put them over the edge was the Soviet declaration of war.
Historical documents (Harold Stimson's diary) show that Truman could have sought peace on exactly the conditions that were achieved well before the bombs were actually dropped.
In my opinion the dropping of the A-bombs on Japan was a blatant war crime. Though not even true, the normal justification is that of a war crime. Trading civilian lives (Hiroshima) for American soldiers is not a sufficient justification for this massive war crime.
Dreamer Tatum (1000+ posts) Mon Jul-19-10 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Go read up on Japan's military history before you start tossing "war crime" around
Japanese leadership sealed the fate of those civilians.
And you have NO IDEA how many lives were saved by not invading Japan, so you can't say what is false. All we had at the time was the experience of the irrational tenacity of the Japanese soldier to judge the response to an invasion.
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Very nice to see some sanity at DU.
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That "million casualties" figure was for the FIRST 30 DAYS of Operation Downfall. Even the most optomistic casualty estimates 3-4 months in had US casualties climing to between 3-4 million.
http://www.operationolympic.com/p1_casualties.php
The Purple Hearts made for Operation Downfall (Olympic then Coronet) instead have been used for subsequent awards in every war or action since, for the past 65 years. They still haven't run out.
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Conversely, if the Reds running the show in the Roosevelt administration hadn't given Stalin that giant idiotic freebie, millions and millions of Asians would still be alive who died in the Cultural Revolution, the Indochina Wars, and North Korea. What value did the Soviet declaration of war really have for us? NONE! They had no capability nor will to jump into an amphibious invasion of the Home Islands, and with our total sea dominance, the Japanese Army in China was a beached whale, totally unable to intervene in any effective way with Downfall, so a Soviet attack on them added nothing to our operations in the Home Islands. It gave Stalin unimpeded control over, access to, and ideological domination of hundreds of millions of Asians and cost perhaps a hundred million lives over the next fifty years of troubles, all for a deal Rosie's Reds made for something that was of no value to us.
The invasion, had it gone off, would have brought horrors to the Japanese civilian population that make the results of the two atomic bomb attacks pale by comparison, there were active plans to use lethal chemical weapons on Japanese cities on a very large scale if the level of resistance planned by Tojo and company materialized.
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Within the next couple weeks, the Emperor himself intervened, and shamed the "Make war until we all die" Japanese factions into saying "That's enough."
Huh?
"Next couple weeks"?
In August 1945, after Japan did not accept the Potsdam Declaration Truman authorized use of atomic weapons against the Japanese. The atomic bombings that followed were the first, and so far the only, instance of nuclear warfare.
On the morning of August 6, 1945, at 8:15, the B-29 bomber Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb, Little Boy, on Hiroshima.[98] Two days later, having heard nothing from the Japanese government, the U.S. military proceeded with its plans to drop a second atomic bomb. On August 9, Nagasaki was also devastated with a bomb, Fat Man, dropped by the B-29 bomber Bockscar. The bombs killed as many as 140,000 people in Hiroshima and 80,000 in Nagasaki by the end of 1945,[100] with roughly half of those deaths occurring on the days of the bombings. Truman received news of the bombing while aboard the heavy cruiser USS Augusta (CA-31) on his way back to the U.S. after the Potsdam Conference. The Japanese agreed to surrender on August 14.
Seems the DUmmy has a time line problem. Dope does that to ya.
Truman dropped the bomb after being asked one question by a senator. That question was "Mr President what will you have to say to the American people about why you chose not to drop the a bomb on Japan at your impeachment hearing" This question made Truman realize that the American people wanted the war over now and the only way to do that was to drop the bomb.
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Conversely, if the Reds running the show in the Roosevelt administration hadn't given Stalin that giant idiotic freebie, millions and millions of Asians would still be alive who died in the Cultural Revolution, the Indochina Wars, and North Korea. What value did the Soviet declaration of war really have for us? NONE! They had no capability nor will to jump into an amphibious invasion of the Home Islands, and with our total sea dominance, the Japanese Army in China was a beached whale, totally unable to intervene in any effective way with Downfall, so a Soviet attack on them added nothing to our operations in the Home Islands. It gave Stalin unimpeded control over, access to, and ideological domination of hundreds of millions of Asians and cost perhaps a hundred million lives over the next fifty years of troubles, all for a deal Rosie's Reds made for something that was of no value to us.
The invasion, had it gone off, would have brought horrors to the Japanese civilian population that make the results of the two atomic bomb attacks pale by comparison, there were active plans to use lethal chemical weapons on Japanese cities on a very large scale if the level of resistance planned by Tojo and company materialized.
Hey, think of the overpopulation problem we would have if it weren't for communism... :evillaugh:
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it was still pretty horric even if it were neccessary, it should never be repeated again.
Never say never. A similar situation could arise where using a nuke will save more lives than it takes.
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Dropping one on Mecca would probably save a lot of lives if it were done now.
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NEVER
I have a younger sister that is probably here because of the A-bomb. When I go back 300 years in my family tree there are several dead limbs because of this nations wars. There are several family tree limbs alive and well today that could quite possibly be accredited to the use of the A-bomb. I know there are several dead ones before it's use....Bataan...Philipines....Iwo Jima....Coral Sea....and that's not even counting Europe.
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NEVER
Really? I can think of several circumstances--Iran's weapon facilities would be high among them.
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That is so insensitive, there are millions of innocent civilians that get killed with no repercussion to the nation who attacks its horrific.
You mean like Iran?
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it was still pretty horric even if it were neccessary, it should never be repeated again.
A nuke is like any weapon ideally it should never have to be used against anyone but when the time comes it is better to have it and use it. I hope that we never have to drop a nuke ever again but, if it will save more lives than it will take, then by all means use it.
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yeah exactly
Hmmmm...I seem to recall a certain Iranian president threatening the United States and also threatening to "wipe Israel off the map" despite the fact that nearly as many Arabs as Jews live in Israel. Ah, no matter to a madman, gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette, right?
And if nuking someone's weapon production facility to keep them from 1--getting, 2--USING nukes on someone without justifiable reason, so be it.
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A nuke is like any weapon ideally it should never have to be used against anyone but when the time comes it is better to have it and use it. I hope that we never have to drop a nuke ever again but, if it will save more lives than it will take, then by all means use it.
Amen. If I could snap my fingers and there never be another war I'd do it in a second. But if you're going to fight it, then go at it full force and get it over with as quickly as possible.
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Amen. If I could snap my fingers and there never be another war I'd do it in a second. But if you're going to fight it, then go at it full force and get it over with as quickly as possible.
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Exactly. Get it done and won. A country that refuses to fight its' wars with every weapon at its' disposal is going to lose--a lot.
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I have a younger sister that is probably here because of the A-bomb. When I go back 300 years in my family tree there are several dead limbs because of this nations wars. There are several family tree limbs alive and well today that could quite possibly be accredited to the use of the A-bomb. I know there are several dead ones before it's use....Bataan...Philipines....Iwo Jima....Coral Sea....and that's not even counting Europe.
My mother's father was fresh out of jump school when he was assigned to the 508th Parachute Infantry Rgt, 101st Airborne in June of 1945. By his own admission he was so green he barely knew which was the dangerous end of the M1 Carbine he was carrying, and the 101st was assigned to 1st wave drops on the southern islands (if I remember my history correctly) for Operation Downfall. From the moment he'd have left the door of that C-47/C-54, his remaining lifespan under those conditions could realistically be measured on an egg timer.
Instead; the bomb was dropped, the Japanese surrendered, and my grandfather was discharged from the Army with a year of occupation duty, the "Army of Occupation" medal and all of his appendages still attached. He went on from there to father my mother, her brother and two sisters, and there isn't a family in the country more grateful that the bomb was dropped than ours is. If that makes us racist or insensitive in some pansy-assed commie tool's opinion; FOAD, bitch.
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But Howard Zinn says...!!!
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But Howard Zinn says...!!!
Maybe Howard Zinn's little tadpole wasn't in danger. Lot of us today wouldn't be here if it weren't for the A-bomb.
I wasn't in danger myself but those that came after me were.
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Ok, So after all that, how many more days in combat should my late father have spent after 3 years in a German POW camp to keep the war going on HAD WE NOT DROPPED THE BOMB? Useless DUmmies have no souls and no brains.