The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Economics => Topic started by: Chris_ on July 18, 2010, 11:45:12 AM
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Effective Jan. 1, 2012, the whole system of giving and receiving Internal Revenue Service 1099 forms will be turned on its head and all persons (including corporations) who are in business will now have to give 1099 tax reporting forms for coins and other goods that they sell as well as buy.
The responsibility for issuing forms kicks in at $600 for coins or bullion – not a very high level and one that has already started sounding alarm bells. It doesn’t matter in what form payment is made, whether cash, check, credit card, or Yap stone money, the $600 threshold applies.
Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148, signed into law by President Obama this spring) turns 1099 forms into reporting forms not only for independent contractor’s income – what they have long been used for – but also to show sales, gains and losses on purchases and sales of goods as part of a trade or business.
The old exemption against corporations is also gone. If you buy or sell more than $600 of coins, or whatever, from, to or with a bullion dealer, for example, you have an obligation under the new law to issue 1099s.
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=11843
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FDR?
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This brings up a question of capital gains.
Unlike a stock purchase that is dated and exact in the price per share purchased at,how is anyone going to know on this?
For the sake of argument lets say I own gold that I bought years ago at 350.00/oz and am now selling today at around 1200.00/oz.
The gain and subject to tax would be 850.00 but how would they know I didn`t purchase it for 1000.00/oz?
Are gold purchases tracked and recorded?
This makes no sense unless somewhere it is buried in legislation that capital gains or losses will not apply and all precious metal sales will be considered raw taxable income.
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I forsee a lot of 1/4, 1/3 and 1/2 oz Troy bars being minted
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A friend of mine was buying gold coins, mostly US, and they used to be available down to a 1/10 of an ounce. Strangely enough , I found this on the US mint site.
American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins
Production of United States Mint American Eagle Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coins has been temporarily suspended because of unprecedented demand for American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins. Currently, all available 22-karat gold blanks are being allocated to the American Eagle Gold Bullion Coin Program, as the United States Mint is required by Public Law 99-185 to produce these coins “in quantities sufficient to meet public demand . . . .â€
Due to the continued, sustained demand for American Eagle Gold Bullion Coins, 2009-dated American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins were not produced.
The United States Mint will resume the American Eagle Gold Proof and Uncirculated Coin Programs once sufficient inventories of gold bullion blanks can be acquired to meet market demand for all three American Eagle Gold Coin products. Additionally, as a result of the recent numismatic product portfolio analysis, fractional sizes of American Eagle Gold Uncirculated Coins will no longer be produced.
US MINT (http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&categoryId=10118&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=10191&top_category=10191)
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FDR?
What!! Make it illegal to own gold and force sale to Treasury at a fixed price? Naw, Obie would never even contemplate that. :sarcasm:
But talk about a scheme redistributing a little wealth or taxing the rich, the progressives at the dump would be wet with joy (well except for those who actually have a pot to wizz in).
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This brings up a question of capital gains.
Unlike a stock purchase that is dated and exact in the price per share purchased at,how is anyone going to know on this?
For the sake of argument lets say I own gold that I bought years ago at 350.00/oz and am now selling today at around 1200.00/oz.
The gain and subject to tax would be 850.00 but how would they know I didn`t purchase it for 1000.00/oz?
Are gold purchases tracked and recorded?
This makes no sense unless somewhere it is buried in legislation that capital gains or losses will not apply and all precious metal sales will be considered raw taxable income.
1099s report the transaction, not the gain or loss on it for the seller. The issue of gain on a capital asset would be addressed on your Schedule D, if at all. If you had a stack of 1099-MISCs for selling gold in a given year, though, I expect that not mentioning any gain from that on your Schedule D could pretty easily set off an audit flag at IRS.
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1099s report the transaction, not the gain or loss on it for the seller. The issue of gain on a capital asset would be addressed on your Schedule D, if at all. If you had a stack of 1099-MISCs for selling gold in a given year, though, I expect that not mentioning any gain from that on your Schedule D could pretty easily set off an audit flag at IRS.
In effect, any gold purchased over $600 at a time will be subject to capital gains taxes, soon.
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1099s report the transaction, not the gain or loss on it for the seller. The issue of gain on a capital asset would be addressed on your Schedule D, if at all. If you had a stack of 1099-MISCs for selling gold in a given year, though, I expect that not mentioning any gain from that on your Schedule D could pretty easily set off an audit flag at IRS.
Right and what I wonder is with no purchase reference point to establish a value are they going to say all gold you sold is 100% taxable income?
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I don't think that could fly, like every other kind of income, they are counting on you to accurately report taxable gains on the 1040 schedules. The 1099s DO give them a lot more to ask pointed questions about if they think your numbers look funny and pull your file for an audit, though, and you'd very much want to be able to back up whatever you claimed the original purchase price or other basis in the asset was, if they came calling.
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Right and what I wonder is with no purchase reference point to establish a value are they going to say all gold you sold is 100% taxable income?
By saying you can only sell gold to the government they can set both the price and tax. Would a black market develop? Probably. Would the majority go along with the law? Probably if past history is any judge.
The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled
An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',
in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
{snip}
http://www.the-privateer.com/1933-gold-confiscation.html
Is Barack any less a Socialist than FDR?
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By saying you can only sell gold to the government they can set both the price and tax. Would a black market develop? Probably. Would the majority go along with the law? Probably if past history is any judge.
Is Barack any less a Socialist than FDR?
I have gold eagles that my father was awarded in college that he never would give up.
This is another small but troubling thing as it is leading not to a path of just punishing any form of wealth but in some way confiscating and illegalizing it.
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I have gold eagles that my father was awarded in college that he never would give up.
This is another small but troubling thing as it is leading not to a path of just punishing any form of wealth but in some way confiscating and illegalizing it.
FDR made allowance for numismatic value in his EO
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
My mother who hated FDF with a passion spoke about how most just gave up their gold. What we now have is Fiat Money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money) Not to be confused with Fiat Motors. :uhsure:
I
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At least Obama has the benefit of 80 years of failed socialism to tell him he's ****ing up. In that way, he's even stupider than FDR.
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I heard that every purchase a business makes, you have fill out a 1099 form for each item purchased.
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I heard that every purchase a business makes, you have fill out a 1099 form for each item purchased.
Believe there's a $600 minimum threshhold on that, Ptarmie. Still a huge and pointless pain in the ass.
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Believe there's a $600 minimum threshhold on that, Ptarmie. Still a huge and pointless pain in the ass.
I would hope that only 1 form is required at the end of the year and not a separate form for each transaction over $600.
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1099s would be one form per trading partner (Supplier or customer), triggered by a cumulative $600+ spent with or received from during the year.