The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: PatriotGame on July 07, 2010, 03:24:45 AM
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WikiLeaks posted a video on its website in April which it claimed showed the killing of civilians by the US military in Baghdad in 2007
The US military has pressed criminal charges against a soldier suspected of leaking video of a US helicopter attack in Iraq to the website, WikiLeaks.
Army Spc Bradley Manning is accused of transferring classified data on to his personal computer and transmitting it to an unauthorised third party.
Spc Manning allegedly handed over footage of an Apache helicopter killing 12 civilians in Baghdad in 2007.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10529110.stm
Burn in hell Manning, you treasonous bastard.
That boy's ass is in deep - Let's "light him up"!
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Leaking classified information should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law regardless of who did it or their motivations.
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One word--SUPERMAX.
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CNN had a link up for the video yesterday, I watched it, about 12 minutes total. Of course al-Reuters is incensed over their two journalists getting fired up, but though the chopper crew talk identifies weapons in the hands of the group, it's mostly misidentification of their camera bags as rifles, there may have been one guy with an actual rifle in the group though. Before they are cleared to fire one of them identifies an RPG but I didn't see that from the angle in the shot (Two birds involved, talk from both).
However the rest of the story is that the band of Iraqis was in close proximity to American ground units, and the ground units had received fire from the area very recently, which was why the choppers were there at all. The initial engagement is fully understandable in context, misidentification is a fact of life in war and there is every appearance that the group really was insurgents, squiring the al-Reuters flacks around to get good footage of how they were lighting the Americans up, so screw them.
But, I have to say the gunships probably got a bit too aggressive when they engaged a civilian van that pulled up to render aid to survivors moments before the ground troops arrived, since the reaction force could have snaffled up everyone involved without further loss of life. There was no visual evidence of arms in the van and it turned out to be a family with kids, which the aircrews had no way of knowing since the kids did not get out. It was not a Red Crescent ambulance or carrying any other protected markings, so jumping to the conclusion that it was more insurgents trying to evacuate their wounded was not totally unreasonable, but lighting it up without any positive visual on armed personnel in the van was basically unnecessary. Once you turn the shoot switch on, though, it doesn't go back off like an electric light, so it's pretty easy to understand where the chopper guys had their heads at on this.
It is a fact of life and local culture that again and again, uninvolved Iraqi civilians will try to render aid to the wounded, even though they personally had no stake in the fight. The poor bastards in the van didn't realize the choppers were still hot, to their own cost. The imperative to render that aid is a cultural thing, one of the positive values of Islam actually, which as the chopper talk shows, we tend to completely ignore.
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CNN had a link up for the video yesterday, I watched it, about 12 minutes total.
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None of that matters.
Release classified information - and you should be be behind bars at the least.
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It doesn't matter as far as the little bastard who released it is concerned, it matters a lot in the actual prosecution of the war once the video's out.
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I'd say keel haul him off an aircraft carrier but since he's in the army we'll substitute a column of tanks.
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Does anyone hear mean to tell me that ANY PERSON in their right fracking mind would drive their family, their CHILDREN into an area under fire, in a nation at war????????????????????????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT-THE-****?
Yea, sure, their motivations are honest and benign. Those Reuters INSURGENTS knew they were close to coalition troops, they knew there were insurgents close by, they FRACKING KNEW there was fighting in the area. As did the mom & dad drivers of the van.
And, now WE are the bad guys?!
Light the assholes up!
If we change the ROE's, eventually the civilians will grow tired of their mothers and children being killed because terrorists are embedding in their homes and start to 'narc' off the terrorists BEFORE they can engage more of their family members in death.
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If we change the ROE's, eventually the civilians will grow tired of their mothers and children being killed because terrorists are embedding in their homes and start to 'narc' off the terrorists BEFORE they can engage more of their family members in death.
Take a damn' reality pill. We are not there as overlords, but at the sufferance of the elected Iraqi government we helped stand up. They'll just ask us to pack our trash and move out long before that approach works, in fact it was failing pretty miserably when we did try that. From the Iraqi point of view, when your 'Friends' end up killing more of your civilians than your 'Enemies' do, you don't really need those friends any more.
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http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/army-confirms-wikileaks-probe-is-continuation-of-investigation-into-accused-analyst/story-e6frf7jx-1225897784469
From what I'm hearing on the news, is that the person responsible for leaking the documents will be handled by the DOJ. If it is determined to be a military person, shouldn't the military deal with this person?
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I'm sure DAT will weigh in on this with a far better legal perspective than mine, but yeah, I'd say the Army gets first crack at Manning since he's subject to the UCMJ.
But I think it's entirely possible that a DOJ prosecutor or two might augment the military prosecution, which makes the guys' defense a tough row to hoe.
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DEVELOPING: The Wall Street Journal is reporting that investigators have found concrete evidence linking Army Pfc. Bradley Manning with the leak of tens of thousands of classified Afghan War documents.
A defense official told the paper that a search of computers used by Manning produced evidence he downloaded sensitive reports spanning from 2004 until 2009 --files published this week by a whistle-blowing website.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/26/army-whistleblower-bradley-manning-linked-afghan-war-leaks/
Bradley Manning is his name. I wouldn't be opposed to locking his ass up for life, or the death penalty for treason as soon as everything is sorted out, and this guy is proven 100% guilty. But, this guy apparently has another accomplice that helped him provide the documents to WL.
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If his treasonous acts can be link to just ONE death of an informant here in Afghanistan...in my PERSONAL opinion he should get the death penalty.
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If his treasonous acts can be link to just ONE death of an informant here in Afghanistan...in my PERSONAL opinion he should get the death penalty.
Sorry Tx. My threshhold isn't that high. It would be hard to argue that Ethel and Julius Rosenberg caused the death of any US citizen, soldier or ally, yet their treason got them a ride on Ol' Sparky. This self-important twerp needs no less.
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Sorry Tx. My threshhold isn't that high. It would be hard to argue that Ethel and Julius Rosenberg caused the death of any US citizen, soldier or ally, yet their treason got them a ride on Ol' Sparky. This self-important twerp needs no less.
What is necessary would be the Olde English penalty for high treason: hanging, drawing, and quartering. Publically. Offered on pay-per-view to those who couldn't make it to the death chamber. :fuelfire:
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I have been offline for a bit.. I heard a bit on Rush's show about this.. It seems to me it is more of the lefts attack on the military and Bush NO? :hammer: :uhsure:
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What is necessary would be the Olde English penalty for high treason: hanging, drawing, and quartering. Publically. Offered on pay-per-view to those who couldn't make it to the death chamber. :fuelfire:
I saw it should be offered free on cable for those that can't make the journey.
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Sorry Tx. My threshhold isn't that high. It would be hard to argue that Ethel and Julius Rosenberg caused the death of any US citizen, soldier or ally, yet their treason got them a ride on Ol' Sparky. This self-important twerp needs no less.
Now you are talking about some thing that has mystified me for years. It's been a good 20 years since I read both sides of the story, perhaps I should go back and refresh my memory.
I do remember that I believed both were innocent and became a Government scape goat to protect valuable scientists who may have been careless with their records , had them stolen or themselves sold them to Russia.
I did feel so bad for their young boys, hell of a way to become an orphan.
Now about this twerp, what was his motive for collecting and releasing all these records.? Was it money, or the perceived fame he wanted.?? Was this all the doing of a third party that sold him on the fun of playing I Spy.
When was the last time we executed a spy, military or civilian. We have had treasonous acts by quite a few men in the military in the last 40 years, idiots that will gamble they are smarter then anyone else or the people that they sell to. This has to have an appeal for those that want money and get a kick out of the cloak and dagger stuff.
Remember the book " Man without a country "
What about the military code of justice, ain't their rules different from the laws that govern the civilians.??
So as long as bleeding hearts yell against the death penalty--- our future not today or tommorrow but soon, then we will be at the mercry of people that are willing to go for the gold play their spy games and if they get away with it, then they become our teachers, city council men, Bill Ayres etc.
We have got to make the penalty for treason so awful that no one will consider it for any amount of money or fame unless they have a death wish.
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Sorry vesta. The Rosenbergs were spies for the Soviets. At least, the released papers from the old Soviet Union say so.
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Supermax. 23 hour and 55 minutes a day with no human contact.
That is, if they can't stick a needle in the little ****er's arm.
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A quick death is too easy for him make it long and painful
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A quick death is too easy for him make it long and painful
Just a little mispositioning of the rope can turn a quick drop and a sudden stop into the longest 5 minutes of this bastard's life. :evillaugh:
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NO, NO, NO I say pin a medal on his chest.............and use it for a target.
So what if the firing squad is off a little and have to do it over and over. Maybe then we'll get more funding for better training.
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I say all it will take is some time in a supermax facility where Bradley will have the chance to 'make friends' with a man whos father, son, brother, daughter or wife dies because of this leak.
There are some prisoners who are too disgusting for even other men convicted of some of the worst crimes on record. Then Darwin takes over, and the problem solves itself.
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Give him the firing squad or dump him into the Mariana Trench.
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I was thinking some Mohammed tattoos and air dropping him into some al Qaeda stronghold.
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I'm sure DAT will weigh in on this with a far better legal perspective than mine, but yeah, I'd say the Army gets first crack at Manning since he's subject to the UCMJ.
But I think it's entirely possible that a DOJ prosecutor or two might augment the military prosecution, which makes the guys' defense a tough row to hoe.
negative. One of the articles of the UCMJ clearly states that civilian law gets adjudicated first, and sentence is served, prior to any UCMJ action. Upshot is this kid can be tried for espionage, and if found guilty, do 25 in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, then be charged under UCMJ and be sentenced by a panel of senior NCO's and officers to the death he deserves. If found not guilty of civilian charges, then he can face that panel of senior NCO's and officers 25 years ahead of that schedule. No double jeopardy because it's a violation of two separate laws.
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Thanks for that update, docstew.
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Take a damn' reality pill. We are not there as overlords, but at the sufferance of the elected Iraqi government we helped stand up. They'll just ask us to pack our trash and move out long before that approach works, in fact it was failing pretty miserably when we did try that. From the Iraqi point of view, when your 'Friends' end up killing more of your civilians than your 'Enemies' do, you don't really need those friends any more.
I know, I know...I guess I am just too passionate over this nation's efforts being bastardized at the sake of political correctness.
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If his treasonous acts can be link to just ONE death of an informant here in Afghanistan...in my PERSONAL opinion he should get the death penalty.
This is sad...fracking sad. A member of the greatest fighting force on planet earth that has potentially comprised said fighting force, committing nothing short of treason, brings tears to my eyes. I could easily roll out all of the standard
"KILL THE BASTARD!
HANG THE BASTARD!
LIGHT UP THE BASTARD!"
Then I hear that hundreds of graves at Arlington may have bastardized.
At what ends?
Being fat, dumb, stupid and drunk is no way to go through life...for now, it is my only option.
(P.S. if found guilty, I want to see this cock-sucker hang)
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If his treasonous acts can be link to just ONE death of an informant here in Afghanistan...in my PERSONAL opinion he should get the death penalty.
Or American and NATO soldiers and Afghan civilians.
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I was thinking some Mohammed tattoos and air dropping him into some al Qaeda stronghold.
I like the sound of that :hi5:
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This is sad...fracking sad. A member of the greatest fighting force on planet earth that has potentially comprised said fighting force, committing nothing short of treason, brings tears to my eyes. I could easily roll out all of the standard
"KILL THE BASTARD!
HANG THE BASTARD!
LIGHT UP THE BASTARD!"
Then I hear that hundreds of graves at Arlington may have bastardized.
At what ends?
Being fat, dumb, stupid and drunk is no way to go through life...for now, it is my only option.
(P.S. if found guilty, I want to see this cock-sucker hang)
Just as a side note...and to add a touch of irony to this whole thing...Joe Biden was at Ft. Drum to welcome home the 2nd Bde 10th Mountain Division yesterday....the same unit that Pvt. manning is/was assigned to.
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negative. One of the articles of the UCMJ clearly states that civilian law gets adjudicated first, and sentence is served, prior to any UCMJ action. Upshot is this kid can be tried for espionage, and if found guilty, do 25 in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, then be charged under UCMJ and be sentenced by a panel of senior NCO's and officers to the death he deserves. If found not guilty of civilian charges, then he can face that panel of senior NCO's and officers 25 years ahead of that schedule. No double jeopardy because it's a violation of two separate laws.
Well, actually the Feds and the military are the same sovereign for double jeopardy purposes, so one or the other gets him but not both. Generally the DOJ does not take the case away from military jurisdiction for an active duty Soldier. 'Who gets him first' comes up a lot more frequently for crimes against State law, the military usually lets the State have them and if convicted the troop will then generally be administratively discharged with an OTH while in State custody rather than tried by the military on release or while in State detention. Sometimes there'll be a trial in both the State and court-martial, which is NOT a double jeopardy problem (Different sovereigns), but it's fairly rare.
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Ya gotta love the fact that he's sitting at Quantico, of all places.
First off, Marines HATE Army doggies. Second, this traitorous piece of shit? THERE? Hell, he might hang himself before the weekend is out.
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Well, actually the Feds and the military are the same sovereign for double jeopardy purposes, so one or the other gets him but not both. Generally the DOJ does not take the case away from military jurisdiction for an active duty Soldier. 'Who gets him first' comes up a lot more frequently for crimes against State law, the military usually lets the State have them and if convicted the troop will then generally be administratively discharged with an OTH while in State custody rather than tried by the military on release or while in State detention. Sometimes there'll be a trial in both the State and court-martial, which is NOT a double jeopardy problem (Different sovereigns), but it's fairly rare.
Wouldn't the Feds be able to charge him with espionage or unauthorized release of classified material, while the Army charged him with Art 90, Willfully Disobeying a Superior Commissioned Officer? I'm sure at some point he was told by an officer of his chain that he was not to release secret info to anyone without authorization, and that's a capital offense. Would they be able to make that stick? (this is academic, I know that you're right about DOJ not taking the case away from the mil, well unless I put my tinfoil hat on)
[tinfoil hat mode]DOJ takes the case, intentionally screws the pooch, and the charges end up being dropped with prejudice. If the Army can't come up with any separate charges that stick, he gets away scot free[/tinfoil hat mode]
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Doc,
Anything he did would be under Art. 92 at the very least, if not Article 106 (a) (Espionage).
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couple reasons I picked Art 90: 1) it's not espionage, which is what I'm assuming he would be charged with federally, 2) it carries the death penalty that he deserves.
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couple reasons I picked Art 90: 1) it's not espionage, which is what I'm assuming he would be charged with federally, 2) it carries the death penalty that he deserves.
So does Espionage. A little result of the Walker/Whitworth spy ring.
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Unauthorized Disclosure of classified documents is subject to a $250,000.00 fine and up to 10 years in prison. (At least that's what the paper I signed said when I retired.)
Looks like several could apply:
Art 77
Art 92
Art 106 and 106a
Art 108
Art 118 (to be determined at this point)
Art 119 (to be determined at this point)
Art 121
Art 132
and finally, Art 134
It all depends on just how much the military wants to charge him with and whether or not he has caused or causes any deaths due to his actions.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/blucmj.htm
I'm sure that there's someone on here that can explain to us EXACTLY what he can be charged with. ;)
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Ya gotta love the fact that he's sitting at Quantico, of all places.
First off, Marines HATE Army doggies. Second, this traitorous piece of shit? THERE? Hell, he might hang himself before the weekend is out.
Yummy...
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Just as a side note...and to add a touch of irony to this whole thing...Joe Biden was at Ft. Drum to welcome home the 2nd Bde 10th Mountain Division yesterday....the same unit that Pvt. manning is/was assigned to.
I was there when the unit started at Ft Drum back in the late 80's
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Ya gotta love the fact that he's sitting at Quantico, of all places.
First off, Marines HATE Army doggies. Second, this traitorous piece of shit? THERE? Hell, he might hang himself before the weekend is out.
He better not drop the soap in the shower he may get a unexpected suprise in there
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Ya gotta love the fact that he's sitting at Quantico, of all places.
First off, Marines HATE Army doggies. Second, this traitorous piece of shit? THERE? Hell, he might hang himself before the weekend is out.
The brig at Q is the DOD regional confinement facility, I expect he's in pretrial confinement or something that's as near to it as you can get.
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!!! He's a poufter, and DU is wonders about the effect on DADT !!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4486979&mesg_id=4487134 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4486979&mesg_id=4487134)
:popcorn:
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He better not drop the soap in the shower he may get a unexpected suprise in there
In light of DAT's post just above, there's no way in hell the brig is going to put him in with any other prisoners under ANY circumstances - shower or otherwise. Apparently, the peter-puffer is on suicide watch.
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The link to the Telegraph has a picture of him at a gay pride parade. Apparently he had some issues with the break-up of a 'Relationship' going on.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html)
:gay2:
The DU post to which I linked was concerned that this would play into the 'Stereotype' of mentally-unstable homosexuals in sensitive jobs, derailing the end of DADT. Ya think?
The US press has, of course, done its best to stonewall the entire matter of his sexual orientation, let alone discuss any implications of it to the breach in the first place.
Apparently the facts don't fit the MSM agenda here. It's....An Inconvenient Truth!
:koolaid:
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Unauthorized Disclosure of classified documents is subject to a $250,000.00 fine and up to 10 years in prison. (At least that's what the paper I signed said when I retired.)
Looks like several could apply:
Art 77
Art 92
Art 106 and 106a
Art 108
Art 118 (to be determined at this point)
Art 119 (to be determined at this point)
Art 121
Art 132
and finally, Art 134
It all depends on just how much the military wants to charge him with and whether or not he has caused or causes any deaths due to his actions.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/blucmj.htm
I'm sure that there's someone on here that can explain to us EXACTLY what he can be charged with. ;)
I would think that Article 104 section 2 might apply as well:
ART. 104. AIDING THE ENEMY
Any person who--
(1) aids, or attempts to aid, the enemy with arms, ammunition, supplies, money, or other things; or
(2) without proper authority, knowingly harbors or protects or gives intelligence to or communicates or corresponds with or holds any intercourse with the enemy, either directly or indirectly;
shall suffer death or such other punishment as a court-martial or military commission may direct.
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If he gets more then 1o years we should all be happy considering who';s the CIC and how many people he's tossed under the campain bus.
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Notice that since this whole story broke, the whole DADT repeal thing has just kinda quietly slipped away?
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And now back at the ranch.....................
Julian Assange, the Australian founder of Wikileaks, has said he has been warned by "inside sources in the White House" not to return to the US as he could be arrested.
By Amy Willis
Published: 6:30AM BST 28 Jul 2010
Julian Assange, founder of Wikileaks
The 39 year-old told journalists at the Frontline Club last night that US government insiders had informed him about discussions to charge him as a co-conspirator to espionage.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7913758/Julian-Assange-Wikileaks-founder-fears-he-could-be-arrested.html
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Treason is a bitch, isn't it Julie?
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What makes WikiLeaks any different than the NY Slimes? :confused:
Spilling classified information is something that's done pretty much all the time anymore, especially by left wing moonbat publications like the Slimes, NY and LA.
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What makes WikiLeaks any different than the NY Slimes? :confused:
Spilling classified information is something that's done pretty much all the time anymore, especially by left wing moonbat publications like the Slimes, NY and LA.
Yep, the NY Slimes leaked many classified documents under President Bush.
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He better not drop the soap in the shower he may get a unexpected suprise in there
Yeah about that...
...it now appears Manning is openly homosexual and he went through a break-up prior to his contacting WikiLeaks:
The suspect in the leaking of classified military files, Spc. Bradley Manning, voiced his disgust with US Army commanders and U.S. "society at large" on his Facebook page just prior to his alleged downloading of thousands of secret documents, according to the British news media.
According to one story appearing in Britain's The Telegraph, Manning, who served as a US Army intelligence analyst, became depressed after a break-up with his homosexual campanion.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2684-Law-Enforcement-Examiner~y2010m8d2-Wikileaks-leaker-angry-over-treatment-of-gays-by-military
Bradley Manning: the new Guy Burgess (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Burgess).
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Like I said--amazing how the "repeal DADT" crowd has been pretty ****ing silent of late.
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The brig at Q is the DOD regional confinement facility, I expect he's in pretrial confinement or something that's as near to it as you can get.
The idiot that runs WikiLeaks...who IMHO belongs in a cell next to Manning...is claiming that little Bradley is being held...not at Quantico...but in a facility in Kuwait that is "like a second Gitmo"...in an effort to "deny him reasonalble legal representation".
:whatever:
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!!! He's a poufter, and DU is wonders about the effect on DADT !!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4486979&mesg_id=4487134 (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4486979&mesg_id=4487134)
:popcorn:
I could care less personally whether he was protesting DADT or the fact there aren't meatless fridays at the KBR dining facility.
What I DO care about as a soldier...and again speaking strictly for myself...is the fact this idiot has put my life and the lives of every one of us serving in Afghanistan at increased risk. And Mr. Assange is just as culpable. They both should pay a high price for their treason in my personal opinion.
We're already seeing in local news reports here of the insurgents killing locals for being "U.S. Spies"...since the release of the doccuments.
That is blood on the hands of WikiLeaks and Bradley Manning.
Bringing DADT into this simply provides cover for Manning and a chance for the left and the MSM to portray him as a sympathetic person who was wronged by society, who shouldn't be held accountable for his actions.