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Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris_ on July 06, 2010, 03:49:48 PM

Title: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Chris_ on July 06, 2010, 03:49:48 PM
Quote
Postal officials scheduled a briefing today to discuss the amount of the increase, which will go to the independent Postal Regulatory Commission for review.

The current 44-cent first-class rate took effect May 11, 2009.

Under the law, the post office is generally limited to increases no more than the rate of inflation -- 0.9 percent for the year en
ded in May.

However, the agency is allowed to seek a larger increase in unusual circumstances. Potter said in March he planned to take that step.

The agency lost $3.8 billion last fiscal year despite cutting 40,000 full-time positions and making other reductions. It has continued to face significant losses this year.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100706/NEWS02/100706008/Postal-Service-wants-to-raise-rates-end-Saturday-delivery
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: rich_t on July 06, 2010, 04:39:58 PM
I personally would have no problem with they went to 5 days a week service delivery.  It would be nice if the actual offices themselves stayed open on Saturday though, for those that can't get to the Post Office during the work week.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: thundley4 on July 06, 2010, 04:42:56 PM
I personally would have no problem with they went to 5 days a week service delivery.  It would be nice if the actual offices themselves stayed open on Saturday though, for those that can't get to the Post Office during the work week.

That and maybe still have pickup from the standalone mail boxes.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 06, 2010, 05:01:20 PM
Higher stamp prices don't bother me at all, they are really underpriced when you look at postage rates elsewhere (Well, other places that have a reasonable service quality, anyway, not dumps where posting a letter means it has an even chance of actually getting to the addressee within a couple of weeks if t all). 
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on July 06, 2010, 06:10:51 PM
They've already ended Saturday delivery here in my town. It WOULD be nice if the main offices stayed open on Saturdays, as rich t mentioned.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: longview on July 06, 2010, 07:23:13 PM
I sure wouldn't mind only 5 day a week delivery.  Most of my adult life I've lived where we only had 3 days a week.  Life was just fine.  Yeah, having the office open for a while on Saturdays would be helpful.  Or, you ask a friend or neighbor to do you a favor.  Most of mine were only open an hour on Saturdays, so I sometimes had to ask someone else.

I don't think our cost of stamps is too high either.  Quite a deal, when I think about what it would cost me to deliver letters for myself.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 06, 2010, 08:15:12 PM
Higher stamp prices don't bother me at all, they are really underpriced when you look at postage rates elsewhere (Well, other places that have a reasonable service quality, anyway, not dumps where posting a letter means it has an even chance of actually getting to the addressee within a couple of weeks if t all). 

They have a gov't mandated monopoly and still can't break even... *I* have a HUGE problem with that... They're set to lose, according to Jason Lewis, $110B in the next 10 yeras.

Time to privatize... now.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 07, 2010, 09:08:29 AM
They have a gov't mandated monopoly and still can't break even... *I* have a HUGE problem with that... They're set to lose, according to Jason Lewis, $110B in the next 10 yeras.

Time to privatize... now.

You have a huge problem with everything the Government does, what else is new.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on July 07, 2010, 09:37:44 AM
Having listened to Jason Lewis ( a conservative/ libertarian talk radio show host), I would put some credence in what he says. He was vehemently opposed to the Mass Transit system in Minneapolis/ St Paul, noting that their system would NEVER EVER make any profit and would operate at a loss of some $13 Million/ year,  in perpetuity. There is something drastically wrong with the US Postal Service when they can't operate at a profit when UPS & FedEx can.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 10:48:43 AM
You have a huge problem with everything the Government does, what else is new.

I have a problem when gov't steps outside of it's bounds and does stupid shit... yes.

This qualifies.

When people don't have a problem - that's when we get in the mess we're in now. 

are you okay with 1-10B annual deficites for the post-office?
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 10:51:30 AM
Having listened to Jason Lewis ( a conservative/ libertarian talk radio show host), I would put some credence in what he says. He was vehemently opposed to the Mass Transit system in Minneapolis/ St Paul, noting that their system would NEVER EVER make any profit and would operate at a loss of some $13 Million/ year,  in perpetuity. There is something drastically wrong with the US Postal Service when they can't operate at a profit when UPS & FedEx can.

Jason and I disagree on a number of things, but finances/economics are not one of them. He correctly calls out that the Hiawatha line runs >$10M annual deficites. The Northern corridor subsidizes riders to the tune of over $20/day/rider.

Now we want the Central corridor... a $1.5 (closer to $2.5 when done) Billion dollar transit line that connects MPLS and St. Paul... that even the U of M has fought against!

The MTC runs a nearly 100K deficit.... per day.

Wrong he is not when it comes to mass transit.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: NHSparky on July 07, 2010, 11:07:05 AM
Having listened to Jason Lewis ( a conservative/ libertarian talk radio show host), I would put some credence in what he says. He was vehemently opposed to the Mass Transit system in Minneapolis/ St Paul, noting that their system would NEVER EVER make any profit and would operate at a loss of some $13 Million/ year,  in perpetuity. There is something drastically wrong with the US Postal Service when they can't operate at a profit when UPS & FedEx can.

You want to spend $12 bucks to mail a letter, be my guest.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on July 07, 2010, 11:19:57 AM
...are you okay with 1-10B annual deficites for the post-office?

Not particularly, but universal postal service is a necessary piece of national infrastructure, whether it runs at a profit or not really isn't all that important in the big picture.  Like highways, airports, and internet nodes, the economic activity it facilitates dwarfs the nominal operating loss.   Your analysis is too thin to dispute, since you don't actually seem to have any idea about how a privatized post office would become profitable, other than the magic word 'Privatized.'  There are only two possible ways, either drastically reduce the logistic structure and service levels, or drastically increase the postage cost, but you don't pick either one.  Lower wages and benefits would cut some level of cost (Part of reducing the logistic structure), but there would remain all the vested benefits that cannot legally be rewritten away just because the organization changes hands as a legacy cost.

The fact that UPS and FedEx can make a profit delivering single boxes at $10+ dollars a pop has really nothing to do with whether the post office loses money, they aren't doing the same thing - though there is overlap in the form of parcel post.  The post office loses money because it is more important to the Congress that ultimately controls it that postage be low and service broad, rather than the organization running in the black.  Congress would throw a fit if the Post Office charged what it really costs to deliver mail on the universal door-to-door basis they do without a deficit, but that is their choice and an operational restriction they force onto the Post Office.  The Post Office wouldn't have a deficit if first class postage was a buck; it probably would be in that same ballpark if privatized, because a private entity is not going to be able to do the same job of universal delivery at least 5/7 and at the same first class price point the PO has, and make money at it. 
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: debk on July 07, 2010, 11:22:46 AM
I would rather they cut back to just 3 times a week, than continue to "eat up" money.

More and more people pay their bills online, do their banking online, their checks are auto-deposited, cutting down drastically on the amount of mail.

However, the amount of junk mail continues to increase, while still at about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of a regular letter. Increase the cost of bulk mailing and let those monies help to make up the deficit. Might save some trees.

I know that sounds "tree-hugger"....but how many of you really look at every bit of junk mail you receive? I stand next to the waste basket as I look at the mail, and most of the junk stuff goes straight to the trash, I barely glance at it. I find it an extreme waste. I recognize that a business justifies it by if they get 3-10 customers out of 1000 mailouts, that may cover the cost of the mailing. However, the total cost of the advert(design, paper, print) and mailing is a 100% tax write-off for the business.

I'd also like to add....all the Congress-critters get all their mailings for free.  ::)
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 11:29:22 AM
You want to spend $12 bucks to mail a letter, be my guest.

Not to be too blunt...

You already are paying an insane amount to send a letter. But since it's hidden in debt and other taxes, you don't see it, and therefore you can ignore it.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: NHSparky on July 07, 2010, 11:42:36 AM
Not to be too blunt...

You already are paying an insane amount to send a letter. But since it's hidden in debt and other taxes, you don't see it, and therefore you can ignore it.

If the USPS raised rates enough to cover costs and sustain itself, to mail a letter still would be less than 55-60 cents.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 11:45:31 AM
If the USPS raised rates enough to cover costs and sustain itself, to mail a letter still would be less than 55-60 cents.

would that increase their revenue by $10B/year that they need? Then why not do it and be solvent?
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on July 07, 2010, 11:52:37 AM
I have a problem when gov't steps outside of it's bounds and does stupid shit... yes.

This qualifies.
If I may:

Quote from: Article I, Section 8
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

IF--and granted this is a mighty big if--the PO can stop doing stupid shit then there is no reason to oppose it being under government purview. As this is a legitmate government function the question becomes: HOW do we get them to be functional.

The military does tons of stupid shit, a lot of it codified, but that doesn't mean  we race off and privatize the military, we improve it. It ain't easy but it isn't impossible either. Rumsfeld, for all his foibles created a sytem that allows wounded US service personnel to be evac'ed out of theatre in 72 hours rather than the 2 weeks on average when he assumed his responsibilities.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 12:00:23 PM
If I may:

IF--and granted this is a mighty big if--the PO can stop doing stupid shit then there is no reason to oppose it being under government purview. As this is a legitmate government function the question becomes: HOW do we get them to be functional.

The military does tons of stupid shit, a lot of it codified, but that doesn't mean  we race off and privatize the military, we improve it. It ain't easy but it isn't impossible either. Rumsfeld, for all his foibles created a sytem that allows wounded US service personnel to be evac'ed out of theatre in 72 hours rather than the 2 weeks on average when he assumed his responsibilities.

You're twisting my words... Because the PO is fawked up and wasting money, I must think we should rid of the military as well? Never said that.

You can't get the PO functional unless they have a need to be functional... they have no need when they don't have to break even.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: NHSparky on July 07, 2010, 12:13:44 PM
You're twisting my words... Because the PO is fawked up and wasting money, I must think we should rid of the military as well? Never said that.

You can't get the PO functional unless they have a need to be functional... they have no need when they don't have to break even.

bkg--I believe he's showing that there IS in fact a Constitutional mandate for a postal system under Article I, Section 8.

But if we're holding the same standard, when's the last time the military turned a profit?
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on July 07, 2010, 12:26:54 PM
You're twisting my words... Because the PO is fawked up and wasting money, I must think we should rid of the military as well? Never said that.

You can't get the PO functional unless they have a need to be functional... they have no need when they don't have to break even.
There is certainly no intent of twisting your words.

I was responding to your assertion "I have a problem when gov't steps outside of it's bounds...". Article I Section 8 says the PO is within the government's bounds.

That being said one should not always use the perfect to argue against the good. If the PO can be improved then we should do so on every front possible for improvement's sake alone as well as not wasting money better spent elsewhere or saved altogether. Even then the clause in A1S8 has no profitability contingency.

Of course none of this excludes the possibility of privatization but even that is of debateable value in a world where private carriers already flourish.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on July 07, 2010, 01:58:47 PM
Having listened to Jason Lewis ( a conservative/ libertarian talk radio show host), I would put some credence in what he says. He was vehemently opposed to the Mass Transit system in Minneapolis/ St Paul, noting that their system would NEVER EVER make any profit and would operate at a loss of some $13 Million/ year,  in perpetuity. There is something drastically wrong with the US Postal Service when they can't operate at a profit when UPS & FedEx can.

Nicely said!

Over in Spokane, the bus system was privately owned about 15 or 20 years ago. As ridership declined they told the city they were going to have to 1, raise rates a dime, and 2, stop those routes that weren't paying their way.

What did the city do, you ask? Well they bought them out and have yet to bring the losses under 15 mil/year! I think the price tag was 60 million! Never asked the voters, never even brought it up before the city council! They knew what was best, period!

It's the government! They don't care whether they sustain a service by it's own revenues! Hell, we'll just raise property taxes of those that never use the damn system in order to pay for the loss!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on July 07, 2010, 02:14:56 PM
Sparky, ever try mailing a package through the Post Office when it didn't "fit" in one of their predefined  boxes??  I mailed a package to my nephew in Iraq. The whole thing couldn't have been 8 lbs. It cost me some $23. I could have mailed it less expensively should FedEx or UPS deliver to Iraq. Half of that cost is absorbed by the military, so the USPS  got off cheap.

Secondly, IF the USPS would quit giving the junk mail people reduced rates, then they JUST might make a profit. Instead, they hoist the price increases on the public.

Allo:

When Minnesota voted on the mass transit system, they were intentionally mislead by false advertising. I forget the specifics, but the advertising campaign was worded in a way as to confuse the voters. It also rerouted some badly needed road money into the light rail system.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on July 07, 2010, 02:41:02 PM
Sparky, ever try mailing a package through the Post Office when it didn't "fit" in one of their predefined  boxes??  I mailed a package to my nephew in Iraq. The whole thing couldn't have been 8 lbs. It cost me some $23. I could have mailed it less expensively should FedEx or UPS deliver to Iraq. Half of that cost is absorbed by the military, so the USPS  got off cheap.

Secondly, IF the USPS would quit giving the junk mail people reduced rates, then they JUST might make a profit. Instead, they hoist the price increases on the public.

Allo:

When Minnesota voted on the mass transit system, they were intentionally mislead by false advertising. I forget the specifics, but the advertising campaign was worded in a way as to confuse the voters. It also rerouted some badly needed road money into the light rail system.

yep! Typical gubmint decoy politics!! The gubmint doesn't have to rely on profits. If it were so, there would be a great disolvement in hand-outs!

No politician in immediate memory, has actually put forward how in the hell they are going to pay for their pet projects!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 06:00:24 PM
Sparky, ever try mailing a package through the Post Office when it didn't "fit" in one of their predefined  boxes??  I mailed a package to my nephew in Iraq. The whole thing couldn't have been 8 lbs. It cost me some $23. I could have mailed it less expensively should FedEx or UPS deliver to Iraq. Half of that cost is absorbed by the military, so the USPS  got off cheap.

Secondly, IF the USPS would quit giving the junk mail people reduced rates, then they JUST might make a profit. Instead, they hoist the price increases on the public.


When there is no consequence for living in the red, there no reason to try to make a profit.

Quote
When Minnesota voted on the mass transit system, they were intentionally mislead by false advertising. I forget the specifics, but the advertising campaign was worded in a way as to confuse the voters. It also rerouted some badly needed road money into the light rail system.

I think you're talking about the constitutional amendment allocating all vehicle excise taxes to "Transportation"???  The amendment reads a MAX of 60% to roads and MIN of 40% to mass transit... That means 100% can go to mass transit... when the people buying vehicles pay for it.

Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on July 07, 2010, 06:03:07 PM

I think you're talking about the constitutional amendment allocating all vehicle excise taxes to "Transportation"???  The amendment reads a MAX of 60% to roads and MIN of 40% to mass transit... That means 100% can go to mass transit... when the people buying vehicles pay for it.



Yeah, that's the one. Can you say, "hosed??
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 06:08:07 PM
Yeah, that's the one. Can you say, "hosed??

Massively... hypocricy at it's best. Even the GOP stood up and said "it's better than nothing.."  :bird:
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on July 07, 2010, 06:12:22 PM
Massively... hypocricy at it's best. Even the GOP stood up and said "it's better than nothing.."  :bird:

There's some real logic outa the Repubs, huh?

Here's a clue you idiot politicians, if it can't support itself, you don't ****in' need it!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 07, 2010, 06:15:38 PM
There's some real logic outa the Repubs, huh?

Here's a clue you idiot politicians, if it can't support itself, you don't ****in' need it!

I say that all the time... and get yelled at for it..   :cheersmate: :lmao: :lmao:
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on July 07, 2010, 06:18:46 PM
I say that all the time... and get yelled at for it..   :cheersmate: :lmao: :lmao:

Uh.........more info than I needed to know! heh, heh!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Wineslob on July 08, 2010, 10:06:30 AM
Thats a helluva business plan. Our sales drop, we must maintain the work force, so we jack our end product prices up.

Ya, that's gonna work.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: bkg on July 13, 2010, 08:31:36 PM
Thats a helluva business plan. Our sales drop, we must maintain the work force, so we jack our end product prices up.

Ya, that's gonna work.

It's the government way...
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Chris_ on September 30, 2010, 07:40:24 PM
Quote
Panel rejects Postal Service request for postage rate increase

The Postal Regulatory Commission says the Postal Service failed to justify its bid for a 5.6% increase, which tops the inflation rate, and blames the agency's business model for its fiscal woes.

The commission's decision was unanimous among its five members, Goldway said. She said the commission acknowledged the decline in mail volume during the recession, but said she believed the rate increase was an attempt by the Postal Service to deal with the agency's long-term structural problems.
Ouch.

LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-postal-increase-20101001,0,1670719.story)
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on September 30, 2010, 09:53:16 PM
In my opinion, any gubmint agency that collects money from the public should operate on the same principles as any private org!!!

Unfortunately, for the past 80 or so years, since the lefts hero, Roosevelt, that is not the case and they're allowed to cost the taxpayer money!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on October 01, 2010, 08:53:11 AM
Thats a helluva business plan. Our sales drop, we must maintain the work force, so we jack our end product prices up.

Ya, that's gonna work.

The ohter side of that is that they exist to offer a service, but aren't allowed to charge what it costs to actually deliver it because Congress, rather than the organization providing the service, controls the pricing.  Anything remotely like a business plan would have to start with free market pricing.

Replacing the USPS with UPS or FedEx strikes me as a ridiculous idea, workable only in the densely-populated areas where the allegedly-Conservative talking heads on TV who support it live in blissful ignorance of anything west of Philadelphia.  Those companies deliver a great service but it's not cheap and it basically cherrypicks a part of the USPS customer base so that they aren't really doing the same thing at all for the most part, i.e. what makes up all of their business makes up only a minority of the business USPS has to do.  They are basically couriers (High volume, highly-automated ones, but still just couriers), not mail services.

Privatizing the postal service on the other hand could work, but not unless the enterprise taking it over had price freedom on the postage.  I don't believe that would make it actually go down, just the opposite, though if it just stayed the same the overhead in USPS would have to be cut drastically by the new operator. 

Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on October 01, 2010, 10:42:58 AM
"Toots" worked a coupla years as a replacement/part time courier. I had to listen to her every night complain of the absolute waste and laziness of the other postal workers. She has stories that would just make ya go "Huh, what, ya gots to be kiddin' me"!!!

Everything from drinkin', and smokin' herb on the job to employees not delivering mail because the walk uphill was to taxing! 30 some holidays and "personal time, not including 2 weeks vacation after your first year. The list went on and on! She however was hired outa some temp agency and actually had to work for a living!

You know, just like a union!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on October 01, 2010, 12:06:21 PM
In my area, since it's considered a "rural route", the postal carrier won't get out of their vehicle to walk up the steps to deliver a package or anything requiring a signature. On a good day, he'll leave the package alongside the mailbox (if it won't fit inside). Otherwise, I have to travel into town and retrieve the package/ letter from the post office. I don't have this problem with FedEx or UPS.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: AllosaursRus on October 01, 2010, 12:13:10 PM
In my area, since it's considered a "rural route", the postal carrier won't get out of their vehicle to walk up the steps to deliver a package or anything requiring a signature. On a good day, he'll leave the package alongside the mailbox (if it won't fit inside). Otherwise, I have to travel into town and retrieve the package/ letter from the post office. I don't have this problem with FedEx or UPS.

I finally gave up and got a PO Box as every winter the snow plows were wastin' my mail box. I usually check it about once a week. Beats the hell outa them puttin' my packages out along side the mailbox on the highway!
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: Thor on October 01, 2010, 12:29:57 PM
I finally gave up and got a PO Box as every winter the snow plows were wastin' my mail box. I usually check it about once a week. Beats the hell outa them puttin' my packages out along side the mailbox on the highway!

We don't HAVE that problem here in Texas.......  :-)  I DID have to deal with that when I lived up in MN.
Title: Re: Postal Service wants to raise rates, end Saturday delivery
Post by: cavegal on October 01, 2010, 12:39:42 PM
We are a rural route also. Just 3 times a week. We can call ahead for stamps and can mail out some boxes.