The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: dandi on July 03, 2010, 09:44:03 PM
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I don't know if the organization described in the OP is legitimate or not, what denominations are represented, who runs it, what their agenda is, or anything. That's not the main reason I brought it over.
It's the responses.
This is what both amazes and pisses me off about DUmmy homosexuals. It's not enough to be tolerant of them, to afford them the same general protections as any other citizen, to adopt a live-and-let-live attitude towards whatever they do in the privacy of their own bedrooms, and to love them as brothers and sisters as God commanded.
No, Christians are expected to renounce the Gospel, God, and 2000 years of Christian thought and declare not only that homosexual behavior is not a sin, but that it is actually a virtue. Only then are you being a "good Christian".
Here's a newsflash for you DUmmies, and I'll make it as simple and clear as possible:
Ain't happenin'.
I am a sinner. I have no problem admitting it. Christians know there is no one without sin. The difference is I don't expect anyone to declare my sins as purity and my vices as virtues simply to make me more comfortable and I don't call my preacher a "hater" when he sermonizes on those same sins. I'm not going to turn the Bible on its head so you can feel better about yourself. You can call it "hate" until you are blue in the face but that only reflects your own hate, guilt and insecurity.
KonaKane (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:04 PM
Original message
A Different Kind of Christian Demonstration at Gay Pride
This is the kind of thing that makes my day. I pray all Gods that we see more of it.
A Different Kind of Christian Demonstration at Gay Pride
Inspiration | 30. Jun, 2010 by Tim Schraeder | Comments (109)
http://www.timschraeder.com/wp-content/themes/spectrum/...
A couple of months ago I interviewed Nathan Albert from the Marin Foundation about Mercy, Justice, and the GLBT Community. It generated some interesting dialogue around a tough issue… how does the Church communicate God’s love to the gay community?
This past weekend Chicago, along with many other US cities, celebrated Gay Pride with a parade. As a part of the weekend, Nathan and a group of over 30 Christians from various Chicago churches went to demonstrate at the Gay Pride Parade with the Marin Foundation.
Their demonstration was much different, though.
While the most vocal “Christian†presence at the parade was in the form of protesters with “God Hates Fags†signs, Nathan and a team from the Marin Foundation took a different approach… they chose to apologize.
The volunteers wore black t-shirts with the phrase “I’m Sorry†on the front and held signs with messages of apology, on behalf of all Christians, for the way the church has treated the gay community.
..........snip...........
What I saw and experienced at Pride 2010 was the beginning of reconciliation. It was in the shocked faces of gay men and women who did not ever think Christians would apologize to them.
I hugged a man in his underwear. I hugged him tightly. And I am proud.
......snip.........
That’s what it’s all about. Who knows what will happen or what will come of this, but one life was impacted and countless seeds were planted in the hearts of many.
Pray for Tristan and Nathan’s conversation and pray that this will be the beginning of a movement of reconciliation between the Church and the gay community.
Huge props to Nathan, Kevin, Andrew, everyone at the Marin Foundation, and those who courageously joined them this weekend in taking Christ’s love to a place most Christians would run away from. Thanks for being an example and setting a high bar for the rest of us to follow.
How is your church communicating to the gay community? Maybe we need to start with a humble apology.
http://www.timschraeder.com/2010/06/30/a-different-kind... /
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8684317
Cronus Protagonist (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Yeah, and I'd like to see them demonstrate among their peers instead of the oppressed
After all, the minds that need changing are not the ones in the parade, but the minds of their evil brethren and cohorts. And standing under the same umbrella as the people who have tortured, oppressed and killed gay folk for centuries is not a way to win fealty from the ones so oppressed.
Cronus Protagonist (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
126. Do you really need me to tell you that?
I'm surprised because you seem to be able to write a sentence correctly, so when you claim to not understand my point, it appears incongruent.
I wonder for whom the "bad idea" was, to which you refer; us gay folk, the group that was there, or their persecuting, gay hating gay bashing peers?
In any case I did not address the issue of whether or not it was a "bad idea". I talked about what I'd like to see, clearly referencing that they would do better in my eyes if they demonstrated against their peers for their un-Christian attitudes than try to hug the ones that their peers oppress.
Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Did you read anything in that link?
The email? The original Advocate article? Michaelangelo Signorile is considerably more trustworthy in my book than Marin's unsupported self-congratulatory rhetoric, and the unwillingness of the organization in question to affirm the moral legitimacy of homosexuality--check the website, they refuse to say it--suggests pretty strongly that he has it right, that they are playing a double game.
I have no doubt that they're happy to feel that they're being properly generous and loving Christians by "welcoming" gays, but that doesn't mean that I think their support is worth very much. Sorry.
Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I am tired of giving the benefit of the doubt
to people who repeatedly show themselves to be deceptively manipulative.
For once, the burden should be on them. When Marin and his group are willing to say clearly and openly that they don't think homosexuality is immoral, that attempts to "change" gays are immoral and counterproductive, and that they fully support civil and social equality for gay people and same-sex relationships in all respects, maybe my view will change (though I would still be angry over his exploitation of his lesbian friends.)
Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Sorry. "Fool me once", as the saying goes.
The "welcoming" attitude is increasingly routine among anti-gay Christian groups trying to portray themselves as tolerant. The fact that this group--alongside its dishonesty in a variety of other respects--is particularly loud in its emphasis on that point does not alter the basic bankruptcy of the approach.
Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. That's a small part of it, but not the whole.
Edited on Sat Jul-03-10 04:09 PM by Unvanguard
It's true that I am very impatient with compromises on this issue, and that plays a part in my disdain for the "tolerance" played up by religious figures who refuse to support full equality and refuse to reject the old prejudices rendering homosexuality immoral. But even more than that, I get really angry when people portray themselves as something they're not to manipulate people into buying into their organization. It's the deception that I find most greatly offensive here, and if Signorile is correct--and I have no reason to doubt him--Marin is being deceptive both in how he portrays his ideology and in how he portrays the history and the influence of his organization.
Touchdown (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. Too little, too late. Easy to denunce Phelps.
Lets see these guys build up an entourage and go after Warren next. THEN, I will see them as sincere.
If Christianity is so powerful, then have Jesus bring Matthew Sheppard back from the dead like he did with Lazarus.
Enough with your Xtians are good to the gays propaganda. It doesn't work when they only go after the easy ones like Phelps, and let the Robertsons and Dobsons of the world off the hook.
mitchtv (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. sorry, not buying
too little, too late, they should be demonstrating at their own hateful denominations, not bothering Gays with their pie in the sky bs, only to suck in a few gullible ,lost souls, desperate for some community, only to hit them with their "message" They are not forgiven
superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #108
113. It boggles the mind that you'd use GLBT people as pawns in your agenda to legitimize sky fairies.
Oh wait, no it doesn't.
It's not the responsibility of gay people (the persecuted minority) to accept people of faith (the powerful majority), it's the responsibility of people of faith to prove themselves to the gay community. It's not the fault of GLBT people that your religion was "hijacked" (an idea that I find to be complete bullshit, actually) by fundamentalist loonies, and instead of whining about negativity, maybe you should try a bit of that empathy yourself and realize why so many in the gay community are hostile towards religion.
And then, the ultimate in PWNAGE, made all the more amazing coming from another DUer:
superduperfarleft (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #116
120. Oh, poor persecuted Christians. I know they're tired of evil gays tying them to fenceposts and
beating them to death because they are Christian.
Oh, when will the injustice end?
KonaKane (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-03-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #120
131. Seems the Christians had one of their own tied, or was it nailed, to a post?
It's a horrid thing no matter who it happens to. Which is why you should be happy that some people are trying to move in the right direction on this issue, for a change, instead of finding ways to snipe at them.
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ZERO Bong
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Proving what Sir Elton John said about conservatives, in response to the stunned reactions to his singing at Rush's recent wedding . . .
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John Edwards and Tiger Woods want to know when is the next "Cheaters Parade"? They want a chance to be grand marshall. They want the Xtians and courts to lighten up on cheaters and realize they are born that way and they have rights too....but mostly, they want their divorce money back....especially Tiger.
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John Edwards and Tiger Woods want to know when is the next "Cheaters Parade"? They want a chance to be grand marshall. They want the Xtians and courts to lighten up on cheaters and realize they are born that way and they have rights too....but mostly, they want their divorce money back....especially Tiger.
Don't forget BJ Clinton and AlGore.
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Don't know what churches these were, and I really don't give a rat's ass, but no church I ever went to, including the one I occasionally manage to get thru the door at, would ever do this.
We wouldn't show up at a gay pride parade either! The whole idea is foreign to the teachings I have been educated with.
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I guess I'm not sure what horrific things the Christian church has done to homosexuals. Aside from refusing to call their sexual choices "marriage," I can't think of anything. Given the plain fact that Christians have a different view of the entire marriage arrangement than the world seems to have, even that is far less a denial of "rights" than it is an attempt to explain what the marriage arrangement means.