The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: World Communism on May 28, 2010, 12:55:52 AM
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I'm the enemy here... but I give you guys credit for wanting to take an interest. I feel the same passion for the politics that I believe in.
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I'm the enemy here... but I give you guys credit for wanting to take an interest. I feel the same passion for the politics that I believe in.
But what confuses me is why you believe in a political philosophy that has proven time and time again to be a miserable faure?
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But what confuses me is why you believe in a political philosophy that has proven time and time again to be a miserable faure?
I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
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I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
Leninism was the basis of the Soviet Union's ideology. Joseph Stalin took it to a greater extreme but was as Marxist as Leninism was. The Chinese government today calls their system 'market socialism' which is a fancy way of saying they are, well, Leninist. Vladmir Lenin learned the hard way that communism runs out of other peoples money and was forced to finance it from outside investors, kind of like China today.
Here is your so-called 'pure communism' in action: http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/museum/cook.htm
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This discussion has been moved from it's original location.
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I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
USSR
Romania
Cuba
Red Army Faction
The Shining Path
Tamil Tigers
North Korea
Vietnam
Venezuela
Khmer Rouge
Zimbabwe
Pre-War Iraq
&c &c &c
100 million broken eggs and not 1 goddam omelet.
It appears you espouse a philosophy that is incapable of expressing itself in any manner except corrupt, incompetent and blood thirsty.
Now run along, your masters need you to shoot common dissenters vicious capitalist reactionaries.
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+1 Bunny-man.
Where's that damn Hi-5 button when I need it. :cheers1:
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...and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
And yet you take no lesson from this key datum?
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I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
Communism is socialist utopian dreamland implemented at the point of a sword because human nature will not cooperate with the fantasy.
It never ever will as Marxism needs perfect human goodness...that is to say a person is willing to pick up the trash for the benefit of all.
Show me where that has ever happened or where folks of your mindset are ever willing to be the lowest in society even though it is necessary.
You can`t and won`t but will prattle on about how vital a smoked up stoner reciting gibberish they call art is.
Guess what,Communism will make that go away (not a pleasant way either) long before it will elevate anyone to the nirvana you dream of.
Grow up and read some history and observe the reality of human nature...you can`t change it simply by denying it.
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A real free market has also not been tried.
I'd try it first.
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The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
Weird, because commies pretty much sing in chorus that the US is imperialist. How come it survived past the USSR and is much more robust?
If he complains it is because of capitalism--the vice of China--then he admits capitalism is more viable than communism.
Of course, it is hard to complain about the USSR's imperialism since Marxist doctrine says communism will spread itself violently.
Such interesting corners they paint themselves into.
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They have to invent their own reality.
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I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
Show me where Capitalism and free market economies have failed.
How many Communist regimes have come and gone in the 234 years America has been a nation?
Why is it when a Communist country fails...they turn to our example instead of trying harder with Communism? How many of the former Soviet client states are still believers in Communism.
Go ahead...now try to spin out of this by attempting to tell me none of them practiced "true Communism".
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Show me where Capitalism and free market economies have failed.
How many Communist regimes have come and gone in the 234 years America has been a nation?
Why is it when a Communist country fails...they turn to our example instead of trying harder with Communism? How many of the former Soviet client states are still believers in Communism.
Go ahead...now try to spin out of this by attempting to tell me none of them practiced "true Communism".
All true but we also were a fairly moral and righteous country...not perfect by any means but most people understood how bad man can be. We looked to God at one point and knew that the "rules" were there for our benefit.
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Oh boy, another "genuine" commie.
Wonder who he voted for?
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Show me where Capitalism and free market economies have failed.
How many Communist regimes have come and gone in the 234 years America has been a nation?
Why is it when a Communist country fails...they turn to our example instead of trying harder with Communism? How many of the former Soviet client states are still believers in Communism.
Go ahead...now try to spin out of this by attempting to tell me none of them practiced "true Communism".
Obviously its very convenient for your argument to label the USSR as communist. But Communism is collectivist, and there wasn't anything collectivist about the USSR.
True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a continuing cycle of greed.
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Obviously its very convenient for your argument to label the USSR as communist. But Communism is collectivist, and there wasn't anything collectivist about the USSR.
Well at least you're predictable. And the obvious flies right over your head as well. There never was norenwill there EVER be anything truly "collective" about communism. It was never intended to be that way. Not even Marx and Lenin intended it to be that way.
At least with Capitalism you are told from the outset that your potential to make something of yourself is only limited by your drive and desire. Anyone with the right attitude and work ethic can become successful under our style of government.
True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a
continuing cycle of greed.
Typical of Communism...this one isn't able to think for itself...it can only repeat things...propaganda it's been spoonfed and told this is how you are to believe.
I've been hearing that same crap spewed from the USSR since inwas a kid in the 70's
Use your own brain kid...quit mouthing others words.
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USSR
Romania
Cuba
Red Army Faction
The Shining Path
Tamil Tigers
North Korea
Vietnam
Venezuela
Khmer Rouge
Zimbabwe
Pre-War Iraq
&c &c &c
100 million broken eggs and not 1 goddam omelet.
It appears you espouse a philosophy that is incapable of expressing itself in any manner except corrupt, incompetent and blood thirsty.
Now run along, your masters need you to shoot common dissenters vicious capitalist reactionaries.
Let's not forget The Manson Family and People's Temple. I see Mr. Snuggle Bunny is very smart.
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Show me where Capitalism and free market economies have failed.
How many Communist regimes have come and gone in the 234 years America has been a nation?
Why is it when a Communist country fails...they turn to our example instead of trying harder with Communism? How many of the former Soviet client states are still believers in Communism.
Go ahead...now try to spin out of this by attempting to tell me none of them practiced "true Communism".
When Communist regimes fail, they end in bloodshed and violence.
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True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a continuing cycle of greed.
Says he from his comfortable home in London. :whatever:
You're welcome to emigrate to Cuba and North Korea. I don't think anyone will stop you.
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Obviously its very convenient for your argument to label the USSR as communist. But Communism is collectivist, and there wasn't anything collectivist about the USSR.
True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a continuing cycle of greed.
If you want to be a communist, go and be a communist. Find a like minded group of people and live together in a collective and leave the rest of us the hell alone. Don't take anything from us to support your idiotic Utopia. And quit killing people who aren't complete idiots like you are and don't want any part of a murderous system.
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Obviously its very convenient for your argument to label the USSR as communist. But Communism is collectivist, and there wasn't anything collectivist about the USSR.
True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a continuing cycle of greed.
Collectivism is at the heart of why communism kills, for two reasons. The first is that communism is dependent on everyone contributing to the collective, and those who cannot or do not produce at least as much as they consume are killed for being a burden; this is even seen in democratic socialist countries where state-owned health systems allow the elderly to die because they are not 'cost-effective' to save and a burden on the state. The second reason is that collectivists have a herd mentality, and if one person is 'guilty' in the collectivist's eyes, then everyone like him is. Collectivism resulted in the Holocaust, the slaughter of the Kulacks, the deliberate starvation of 25 million Ukrainians, the Killing Fields of Cambodia and more.
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When Communist regimes fail, they end in bloodshed and violence.
That's also how they usually start.
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Says he from his comfortable home in London. :whatever:
You're welcome to emigrate to Cuba and North Korea. I don't think anyone will stop you.
Is this guy like 12 or something? :loser:
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Who is this guy?
Anyway, I'm learning a lot just by digesting this thread. Still young, still lots to learn, but the further and further I see us going to marxism, the more I think decent Americans are going to push back. There are just too many of us. I don't know what going to happen in the near future, but is it out of hand to predict some kind of resistance? Some kind of overthrow or something of that magnitude?
I just have that feeling in the pit of my stomach, and it grows stronger by the week.
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Is this guy like 12 or something? :loser:
Chronologically or mentally?
Mentally I wouldn't even credit him with that much experience.
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Allowing a self professed commie to post freely certainly does speak to TCC's fairness, though.
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Allowing a self professed commie to post freely certainly does speak to TCC's fairness, though.
Where's my cookie?
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"If you tremble indignation at every injustice, then you are a comrade of mine"
Ernesto Guevara
How many people is Che personally responsible for killing again? Hell, but he was so inspiring. Right up there with Mao.
You know what an injustice is? working your ass off in school, and then your profession to obtain the life you want for yourself and your family only to have some lazy American (<---- the irony of the protections afforded this entitlement driven misfit by the Constitution they spit on is just too rich not to mention) stick his hand out to demand the rewards of your incredible efforts.
:whatever:
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How many people is Che personally responsible for killing again? Hell, but he was so inspiring. Right up there with Mao.
You know what an injustice is? working your ass off in school, and then your profession to obtain the life you want for yourself and your family only to have some lazy American (<---- the irony of the protections afforded this entitlement driven misfit by the Constitution they spit on is just too rich not to mention) stick his hand out to demand the rewards of your incredible efforts.
:whatever:
Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies?
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Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies? Party bosses, factory managers, apparatchiks, commissars?
You murdered 100 million of your own citizens with bullets, labor camps and enforced starvation in less than 100 years and you have jack-shit to show for it. You shoot your way into a country and the shooting never stops.
Go play back to playing with your Potemkin doll house.
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[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434[/youtube]
Monty Python explains it all
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Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies?
Nothing exploits people like state slavery of communism.
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Says he from his comfortable home in London. :whatever:
You're welcome to emigrate to Cuba and North Korea. I don't think anyone will stop you.
I will gladly pay him a one-way ticket to Cuba and North Korea. :-)
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Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies?
Exploitative? Your precious collectivism requires everyone to contribute under pain of being deliberately starved, worked to death or shot, all so it goes to the dictatorship of the proletariat who builds his or her fiefdom on the backs of these slaves.
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How many people is Che personally responsible for killing again? Hell, but he was so inspiring. Right up there with Mao.
You know what an injustice is? working your ass off in school, and then your profession to obtain the life you want for yourself and your family only to have some lazy American (<---- the irony of the protections afforded this entitlement driven misfit by the Constitution they spit on is just too rich not to mention) stick his hand out to demand the rewards of your incredible efforts.
:whatever:
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3Ak615rHwRzcFa0M%3A%3Awww.blackfive.net%2Fmain%2F2007%2F10%2Fman-i-love-
dead.html&t=1&usg=AFrqEzdwGwms48L9OVMLO8pOo0jiErc3nw)
My favorite picture of Ernesto
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Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies?
And in typical Liberal fashion...when the talking points run out...it turns to mockery.
How predictable.
Tell me...how much "collectivism" did those in power in Communist countries actully engage in themselves?
Mao? Lenin? Fidel? Hugo?
Their people lived in poverty in the collective utopia of Commnism while they live/lived like jet setting millionaires.
What were you saying about manipulating the system?
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He should check out the beginnings of the Massachusetts Bay Colony...another failed example of collectivism at work.
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Diddums, sounds like someone had a difficult life. If you truly believe what you just said, why support a system (capitalism) that encourages people to work less and exploit others to make their $$$? Lawyers, stock manipulators, inheritors, monopolies?
Show me the well off and content population that communism ever delivered...you can`t because there never has been one.
You are either just a troll playing a game or a very simpleminded utopian thinker.
Tell us all what is going to be your contribution to the collective society you preach.
I mean exactly...what are you going to task at and provide for the overall good of society?
If you can`t or won`t answer that question and defend the value of your chosen contribution to the overall good (providing food,clothing,housing before entertainment and luxuries) then you really need to get a grasp on reality.
I am guessing you view it as a system that you can escape into a stoned out nirvana where your every need and wish is met by someone else.
See that is the thing with the left, "me" is only used in the consumption sense of things and seldom or never in the contribution part.
It is always someone else that needs to sacrifice.
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Show me the well off and content population that communism ever delivered...you can`t because there never has been one.
You are either just a troll playing a game or a very simpleminded utopian thinker.
Tell us all what is going to be your contribution to the collective society you preach.
I mean exactly...what are you going to task at and provide for the overall good of society?
If you can`t or won`t answer that question and defend the value of your chosen contribution to the overall good (providing food,clothing,housing before entertainment and luxuries) then you really need to get a grasp on reality.
I am guessing you view it as a system that you can escape into a stoned out nirvana where your every need and wish is met by someone else.
See that is the thing with the left, "me" is only used in the consumption sense of things and seldom or never in the contribution part.
It is always someone else that needs to sacrifice.
You won't get an answer from the Useful Idiot. He has never delivered any real counterpoint to the facts any of us have posted, but just posts DU-style rants against Capitalism and the usual 'The USSR was not real communism' defense (I guess he has never read about Joseph Stalin's collectivization policy).
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You murdered 100 million of your own citizens with bullets, labor camps and enforced starvation in less than 100 years and you have jack-shit to show for it. You shoot your way into a country and the shooting never stops.
Go play back to playing with your Potemkin doll house.
We could use another Pinochet or Suharto. They dealt with commies with a heavy hand. :evillaugh:
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You won't get an answer from the Useful Idiot. He has never delivered any real counterpoint to the facts any of us have posted, but just posts DU-style rants against Capitalism and the usual 'The USSR was not real communism' defense (I guess he has never read about Joseph Stalin's collectivization policy).
I know and why I suspect it is a troll rather then believer.
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Obviously its very convenient for your argument to label the USSR as communist. But Communism is collectivist, and there wasn't anything collectivist about the USSR.
True, many "communist" "regimes" have come and gone while America stays. That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
there's nothing like giving one set of people the opportunity to deceive and exploit another to ensure a continuing cycle of greed.
Hmmm...guess you weren't in class the day they taught Soviet farming and economics. Start with the Ukrainian "Holodomor" of the early 1930's under Stalin.
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That is because capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
Yes, because we want the world to be run by ****ups, not successful people. And if capitalism is so oppressive, why is it countries who have both a capitalist-based economy and a democratic representative system of government tend to be (hell, they ARE) the most successful nations with the highest standards of living, even among the so-called "poor"?
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And in typical Liberal fashion...when the talking points run out...it turns to mockery.
How predictable.
Tell me...how much "collectivism" did those in power in Communist countries actually engage in themselves?
Mao? Lenin? Fidel? Hugo?
Their people lived in poverty in the collective utopia of Communism while they live/lived like jet setting millionaires.
What were you saying about manipulating the system?
Sounds like a certain leader we're all too familiar with........
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...capitalism is THE most effective method of oppression because it utilities not an army or a state mentality but rather uses the successful to keep in place the unsuccessful.
I thought communists were Darwinists by trade.
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Yes, Communism is superior....tell that to the starving North Koreans.
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I thought communists were Darwinists by trade.
H5 -- good one.
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I thought communists were Darwinists by trade.
Who knows, they may have evolved from monkies. They certainly very good at slingin' shit.
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Found this on WikiAnswers:
Communism failed in Russia because communism and socialism are fatally flawed, both in theory and practice. Imagine the market as an infinite number of transactions. In socialism/communism, most of the transactions result from the forcible redistribution of wealth, from producer to consumer. In other words, the government takes some form of wealth from one party and gives it to another party. This has four very harmful effects on the transaction, and collectively, on the economy:
(1) only one party benefits, while the other party is harmed. There is a winner and a loser in every transaction;
(2) typically, the party that benefits simply consumes the benefit instead of turning it into production;
(3) the government must insert itself as a middleman in the transaction (the hammer that forces the redistribution), and this must also be financed, usually by taking their cut; and
(4) eventually, no one wants to be a producer, when producers are what the economy (and the society) needs the most.
In capitalism, transactions are mutually beneficial. If I value your loaf of bread more than I value the dollar in my pocket, and you value the dollar in my pocket more than you value your loaf of bread, then we trade. Both of us benefit! There is no "winner" or "loser" in the transaction. Further, I can add value by selling individual pieces of toast to other customers, for example, at 20 cents per piece, and turn that loaf into a $2.00 profit for me, while still getting to eat some of it. And, in a capitalist society, the government pretty much keeps its hands out of the deal (except for a relatively nominal sales tax). There is no need for the government to "force" the deal, because it is voluntary and it is good for the economy and society.
Now imagine the cumulative effect of this dynamic: if you have an economy that institutionalizes the plunder of the producers for the benefit of the consumers, then you compound all the inherent flaws infinitely, while you deny society the opportunity for the mutually beneficial interaction. On a personal level, this makes your neighbor your enemy instead of your potential partner, because there is only so much the government can plunder on your behalf.
This was the tragedy of the Soviet Union. It did not collapse because of U.S. intervention. That is an utter fallacy. It would have collapsed long ago had it NOT been for U.S. aid bailing it out of its self-created famines during the Stalin years.
China is in a different situation. Communism there did not fail spectacularly and dramatically like the Soviet Union, because it is gradually adapting capitalist policies and allowing greater freedoms. As one answer pointed out, approximately 1/3 of its economy is now private. This is a huge step forward for them, and has allowed millions to bring themselves up out of the poverty that years of communism had forced on them.
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I will gladly pay him a one-way ticket to Cuba and North Korea. :-)
Why thankyou. Wire me "the monies" and I shall be on my way. I'll even send you a postcard, if i can find one.
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You won't get an answer from the Useful Idiot. He has never delivered any real counterpoint to the facts any of us have posted, but just posts DU-style rants against Capitalism and the usual 'The USSR was not real communism' defense (I guess he has never read about Joseph Stalin's collectivization policy).
Ooops, wrong again. Collectivization doesn't necessarily equate to communism, despite being a vital part it is also used by Fascism. The polar opposite.
Honestly, what did you guys do on this site before I came? Just agree with each other over and over again?
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(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3Ak615rHwRzcFa0M%3A%3Awww.blackfive.net%2Fmain%2F2007%2F10%2Fman-i-love-
dead.html&t=1&usg=AFrqEzdwGwms48L9OVMLO8pOo0jiErc3nw)
My favorite picture of Ernesto
Mine:
(http://listenrecovery.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/che_guevara1.jpg)
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Why thankyou. Wire me "the monies" and I shall be on my way. I'll even send you a postcard, if i can find one.
**** your money. Plane ticket. One-way. Non-refundable.
So which do you prefer--Havana or Pyongyang?
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Mine:
So what is it about him that you adore so? The fact he murdered innocents? Imprisoned people by the tens of thousands? Or the fact that the capitalist society he (and you) so hated has marketed him into an icon for deluded idiotic "utes" such as yourselves to plunk down your hard earned (well, someone earned it before you got your dole) cash on a t-shirt with his visage, thereby broadcasting to the world what a ****ing dipshit you are?
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Why thankyou. Wire me "the monies" and I shall be on my way. I'll even send you a postcard, if i can find one.
Hey Psychopath, care to offer a retort to the article I posted...or did you come her to fellate the photo Che Psycho publically?
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Ooops, wrong again. Collectivization doesn't necessarily equate to communism, despite being a vital part it is also used by Fascism. The polar opposite.
Honestly, what did you guys do on this site before I came? Just agree with each other over and over again?
How is fascism the polar opposite? It is the sibling, or at most, first cousin to communism. Fascism is state control of the means of production, despite private ownership. The state decides what to build, where to build, who to hire and fire, what they get paid, etc. Fascism requires massive control over a society, imposed by the government by force, much like communism does. Or are you using the current definition of fascism: anything you happen to disagree with?
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I'm guessing that if our little chewtoy bothered to read a few pages of Jonah Goldberg's book Liberal Fascism, his head might well explode from the realization that the Nazis and Communists were mere shades apart from each other in more ways than one. In fact, the only SERIOUS disagreement between fascists and communists/socialists was national versus international socialism.
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Ooops, wrong again. Collectivization doesn't necessarily equate to communism, despite being a vital part it is also used by Fascism. The polar opposite.
Honestly, what did you guys do on this site before I came? Just agree with each other over and over again?
Collectivism is at the heart of all variants of Marxism and the mass murder it results in.
Fascism was an evolution of Nationalist Syndicalism and the system's creator, Benito Mussolini was a committed Marxist. Fascism is just another variant of Marxism just like National Socialism.
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Honestly, what did you guys do on this site before I came? Just agree with each other over and over again?
Schooled Eurotrash like you when they tried to do what you're doing here...again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
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I thought communists were Darwinists by trade.
I always thought they were Darwin Award winners by trade. In fact I'm surprised the ignorant Eurotrash who started this thread hasn't won one yet.
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Mine:
(http://listenrecovery.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/che_guevara1.jpg)
Any rational explanation as to why you hero worship a psychopathic murder?
I can't wait to here you explain your love for this thug.
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Any rational explanation as to why you hero worship a psychopathic murder?
I can't wait to here you explain your love for this thug.
In that picture. Che looks ghey.
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H5 -- good one.
Apparently he ignored this little factoid.
I wonder why?
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Gotta give the commie credit... he lured you into his trap.
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Gotta give the commie credit... he lured you into his trap.
And what would that "trap" be exactly?
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And what would that "trap" be exactly?
The trap of wasting time by responding to the tripe he posts?
But it has a while since a new chew toy showed up, so I don't blame folks for taking a bite.
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Mine:
(http://listenrecovery.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/che_guevara1.jpg)
Good point. Especially when we KNOW, that in the mind of all good commies, the ends ALWAYS justify the means.
Excuse me, how did your hero end up?
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3Ak615rHwRzcFa0M%3A%3Awww.blackfive.net%2Fmain%2F2007%2F10%2Fman-i-love-dead.html&t=1&usg=AFrqEzdwGwms48L9OVMLO8pOo0jiErc3nw)
Precisely in the historical context he and his IDEOLOGY deserve.
:::::snicker:::::
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I know this is futile but I can't help but add to the imagery.
From the following link: LINK (http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm)
(http://www.therealcuba.com/che_01R.JPG)
He was very 'brave' when he was at La Cabaña Fortress murdering innocent civilians
(http://www.therealcuba.com/CHEPRESOR.JPG)
But he seemed really scared after he was captured by Bolivian soldiers
He was a PIG
(http://www.therealcuba.com/dead-chelatinamericanSt.JPG)
An essay by Dr. Douglas Young, Professor of Political Science & History at Gainesville State College
February 10, 2009
Hollywood has dutifully churned out yet another cinematic agitprop paean to a leftist “martyr,†this time Ernesto Guevara. So let’s recall the real “Che†and try to discern why many supposedly democratic, civil libertarian liberals still swoon over this Stalinist mass-murderer.
The meticulous myth of Senor Guevara is of a handsome Argentine heroically helping Fidel Castro’s guerrillas liberate Cuba from Fulgencio Batista’s military dictatorship in 1959. Then he became a global revolutionary icon inspiring the downtrodden to rise up everywhere, even personally leading rebel warriors in the Congo before being executed doing the same in Bolivia in 1967. The (communist) party line says Che personifies the selfless humanitarian courageously fighting for “social justice.†He’s the Marxists’ martyred Christ figure replete with pictures of his half-naked corpse riddled with bullet holes. And the classic poster of an angry young Guevara has scarred countless college dorm rooms for over 40 years, putting a face on the eternally young rebel for angry adolescents everywhere.
The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation†was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.
Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?
Did the Obama volunteers in that Texas campaign headquarters with Che’s poster on the wall know that Guevara fervently opposed any free elections? How “progressive†is that?
How socially just was it that Che was enraged when the Russians blinked during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis and withdrew their nuclear missiles from the island, thus averting a nuclear war? Guevara was such a zealous ideologue that he relished the specter of millions of Cuban lives sacrificed on the altar of communism, declaring Cuba “a people ready to sacrifice itself to nuclear arms, that its ashes might serve as a basis for new societies.†Some humanitarian.
Che was a narcissist who boasted that “I have no house, wife, children, parents, or brothers; my friends are friends as long as they think like me, politically.†This is a role model for today’s “post-political†voters claiming we should get beyond partisanship?
Adding to the ridiculousness of the Che cult is that he was virtually a complete failure. As a medical doctor, he never even had a practice. When put in charge of the Cuban economy at the start of Castro’s government, his uncompromising communist diktats ran it completely into the ground, from which it never recovered. Humiliated, and also angry that Castro wasn’t fomenting enough revolution abroad, he then tried to lead such quixotic adventures in Argentina, the Congo, and Bolivia, failing miserably everywhere while sacrificing the lives of scores of naïve, idealistic young followers as deluded pawns in the service of his personality cult.
Another reason he fled Cuba in the mid-1960s was the complete mess he made of his private life. Though he preached sexual purity to his colleagues, he was a shameless adulterer who abandoned two wives and many children, some legitimate, others not. As a grandson put it, “he was never home.†The public Che who supposedly had such great love for humanity privately couldn’t stand most folks.
Guevara’s promiscuous communist adventurism was the pattern of a terminal adolescent running away from his problems to get caught up in some heroic crusade against his eternal bete noir, “Yankee imperialism.â€
So why do so many well-heeled American libs still admire this thug? Are the young simply ignorant of his execrable record and drawn to the image of the dashing young rebel? Do older progressives feel guilt for their free market prosperity, and showing solidarity with Che absolves them? Do hippies-turned-yuppies get nostalgic for their youthful protests and rationalize that the symbolism of Che as a “social reformer†eclipses his actual horrific human rights record? And are some American Guevaraistas truly dangerous leftists who seek to emulate their icon and destroy our free, democratic, capitalist society? Ask that guy wearing the Che t-shirt.
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The trap of wasting time by responding to the tripe he posts?
But it has a while since a new chew toy showed up, so I don't blame folks for taking a bite.
I keep hoping one will show up and honestly try to debate and not instantly resort to talking points and mockery.
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I keep hoping one will show up and honestly try to debate and not instantly resort to talking points and mockery.
keep dreaming, conservative! :tongue:
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Any rational explanation as to why you hero worship a psychopathic murder?
I can't wait to here you explain your love for this thug.
> Saw injustice and felt the need to act
> Helped prove that an armed struggle can succeed with he support of the people
> Believed in communism( like me) but disliked Stalinism (like me)
> Deposed a puppet regime
> Dedicated his whole life, right until the end, to an anti-imperialist cause, and was willing to kill and die for it
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keep dreaming, conservative! :tongue:
As if we honestly expected you to have a thought of your own you could defend. Poof--begone, troll.
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> Saw injustice and felt the need to act
By creating even greater injustice? Interesting.
> Helped prove that an armed struggle can succeed with he support of the people
I think we proved that almost 200 years before your boy.
> Believed in communism( like me) but disliked Stalinism (like me)
Disliked it? For a guy who disliked it he sure did follow it and use a lot of the same terror tactics.
> Deposed a puppet regime
You mean like North Korea, Albania, Yugoslavia, Romania, etc., etc., etc?
> Dedicated his whole life, right until the end, to an anti-imperialist cause, and was willing to kill and die for it
You mean murder for it? And frankly, wasn't very successful at it--the cause, that is. He was a very prolific murderer, though. I'm betting he's spinning at about 10K RPM knowing how much money (i.e., capitalism) is being made off his mug by brain-dead mouth-breathers such as yourself in every Spencers and Hot Topix in the western world. Funny how you don't see many of those "yutes" wearing those t-shirts in South Florida. Wonder why?
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> Saw injustice and felt the need to act
And act he did...mass executions in the stadium in Havana....jailing of anyone he and Fidel didn't like.
> Helped prove that an armed struggle can succeed with he support of the people
And the poor people that supported him have paid a price in blood that can never be restored or repaid.
> Believed in communism( like me) but disliked Stalinism (like me)
Yet he engaged in both of them with nothing short of blood lust.
> Deposed a puppet regime
And helped install another one in its place. Spent the rest of his miserable life trying to do the same thing in the Congo and Central America.
> Dedicated his whole life, right until the end, to an anti-imperialist cause, and was willing to kill and die for it
Anti imperialistic? WTF do you think he was doing when he was killed in Central America?
One big difference between you and Ernesto...he died doing what he believed in...you lack the gear to follow in his footsteps.
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> Saw injustice and felt the need to act
> Helped prove that an armed struggle can succeed with he support of the people
> Believed in communism( like me) but disliked Stalinism (like me)
> Deposed a puppet regime
> Dedicated his whole life, right until the end, to an anti-imperialist cause, and was willing to kill and die for it
:whatever:
Since you ignored the facts when they were posted before...aloow me to present them to you again:
The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation†was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.
Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?
How socially just was it that Che was enraged when the Russians blinked during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis and withdrew their nuclear missiles from the island, thus averting a nuclear war? Guevara was such a zealous ideologue that he relished the specter of millions of Cuban lives sacrificed on the altar of communism, declaring Cuba “a people ready to sacrifice itself to nuclear arms, that its ashes might serve as a basis for new societies.†Some humanitarian.
Adding to the ridiculousness of the Che cult is that he was virtually a complete failure. As a medical doctor, he never even had a practice. When put in charge of the Cuban economy at the start of Castro’s government, his uncompromising communist diktats ran it completely into the ground, from which it never recovered. Humiliated, and also angry that Castro wasn’t fomenting enough revolution abroad, he then tried to lead such quixotic adventures in Argentina, the Congo, and Bolivia, failing miserably everywhere while sacrificing the lives of scores of naïve, idealistic young followers as deluded pawns in the service of his personality cult.
Given what you've posted here and comparing it to Ernesto...it's easy to see why you like him...you are and he was...a stark raving lunatic.
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hook, line, sinker...
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hook, line, sinker...
Include yourself in that mockery sine you got reeled into coming back in here and making a post as well.
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Let's not forget how racist Che was.
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Include yourself in that mockery sine you got reeled into coming back in here and making a post as well.
Touche! :rotf: :rotf:
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> Saw injustice and felt the need to act
> Helped prove that an armed struggle can succeed with he support of the people
> Believed in communism( like me) but disliked Stalinism (like me)
> Deposed a puppet regime
> Dedicated his whole life, right until the end, to an anti-imperialist cause, and was willing to kill and die for it
Pssst...get a job loser...
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I'd ask the same of you, and then say that very rarely has communism, real communism, been implemented in a country. The USSR was imperialist. China is capitalist.
Hey the old no one has done it right yet argument.
:lmao:
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Hey the old no one has done it right yet argument.
:lmao:
Yet he comes down on capitalism as implemented. Irony... no... hypocricy at it's best.