The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mustang on May 24, 2010, 12:47:53 PM
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If you create American jobs, you get a tax cut.
If you hire people in India, China, Mexico, or any other place in the world, we tax the shit out of you.
And if you have a big ass corporation that tries to evade this by moving your headquarters overseas, we tax the shit out of you even more.
Plain and simple. No regulation. Just common sense
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Unfortunately economics is rarely that simple.......
First, outsourcing usually occurs because of two primary factors.........cost......and government regulation.
In the instant case in the US, much of the outsourced jobs stem from union activity placing US labor at an uncompetitive disadvantage with the same manufactured goods produced elsewhere. Labor typically being the largest cost component of any manufactured item.
Regulation then further tips the balance in the direction of outsourcing, as the US government has, over the past four decades or so decided to regulate workplace environment, safety, emissions, hazardous waste disposal, energy consumption, etc.......on and on..........
Then there is the sheer absurdity of "taxing the shit" out of a corporation that decides to move their headquarters overseas........how do you propose to do that? Once the corporation has established themselves in a foreign environment, they are out of reach of US taxing authority, unless you propose to impose a tariff on the goods that they import........
And that is the real root of your proposal......protectionism........it has been tried in the past, and rarely works. All that we end up with is that US goods are so expensive that they can marginally only be purchased by US consumers, and manufacturing for export would drop to zero, as our goods would be uncompetitive in the world marketplace.......end result, more jobs and markets lost.
We have evolved into a global marketplace, like it or not, and the only way to survive in it is to compete.......not isolate ourselves with punitive taxation and regulation.......
doc
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The US already has some of the highest corporate ax rates of all the industrialized countries.
Also add in the EPA as to why countries move off shore.
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Yeah, sorry I don't have sympathy for mindless giant corporations led by people who would sell their own mothers for a quick buck.
I don't buy into all that globalization economy. Jobs are lost and they don't come back. Our money goes overseas and doesn't come back.
I've moved to Ringwood and I love it, the community thrives on small business here. All it would take is a wallmart or something similar to shut it all down.
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You do realize that most of those mindless corporations are owned by shareholders?
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Yeah I've been told your not patriotic unless you buy stocks. Bunch of bull if you ask me. :bs:
I don't buy into the argument when conservatives treat sole-proprieters as the same as corporations.
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I think I smell................ :pokingpoop:
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Yeah, sorry I don't have sympathy for mindless giant corporations led by people who would sell their own mothers for a quick buck.
I don't buy into all that globalization economy. Jobs are lost and they don't come back. Our money goes overseas and doesn't come back.
I've moved to Ringwood and I love it, the community thrives on small business here. All it would take is a wallmart or something similar to shut it all down.
Did someone bring this over from DU? Sounds just like their (lack of) understanding of economics..........
I don't give a rat's ass where my investment money goes, so long as I receive a return on my investment. My portfolio contains stocks from South Korea, China, Indonesia, India, South Africa, the Middle East, and even a few European ones, as well as US stocks.......diversification is the key to successful investment.
If Obama decides to nationalize most of the US auto industry, I buy stocks in the Korean and Japanese manufacturers, because I know that the US government can't run a whorehouse without screwing it up (proven fact), so those investments become safer and more productive. UAW jobs are lost........I don't give a damn........I want a return on investment, and if American companies allow themselves to be placed in an uncompetitive environment, through union giveaways, and political interventionism, and ultimately fail, my money will be elsewhere.......making a profit........
Like I mentioned above.......the global economy is here.......either take advantage of it, or sit in your little Ringwood commune, and let the world pass you by........because the "old economy" ain't coming back......ever......anyone that thinks it is......is simply a fool.
doc
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I deal with people in India on a daily basis. The only reason that I have been able to figure out why the work I do (broker price opinions on real estate for lenders) has been outsourced, it to obtain a totally neutral party that works cheap.
It is horrendously difficult to explain to someone in Bangalore why a 2700SF house is probably only worth $20k and that whoever decided to loan the homeowner $100k on the property was just flat out stupid and the lender was just going to have to suck it up. Not only is there a bit( :lmao: ) of a language barrier, but they have no concept of what I am trying to explain. :banghead: (this was a real 45 minute conversation Saturday morning)
I do think that more and more companies are starting to bring their tech support staff back to the US, simply because the consumer is forcing it upon the companies, by refusing to talk to someone who does not speak English as a first language.
I was on the phone with AT&T tech support last week for an hour. The tech was somewhere here in the SE. It was great! DirecTV has switched their tech support to here in the states too. Last time I spoke with someone with MSN, the tech was American also.
It's one thing to talk to another country about general information stuff....but when I'm talking about anything to do with money or technical support....I want an American who speaks perfect "American" that I can understand!!!
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Unfortunately economics is rarely that simple.......
First, outsourcing usually occurs because of two primary factors.........cost......and government regulation.
In the instant case in the US, much of the outsourced jobs stem from union activity placing US labor at an uncompetitive disadvantage with the same manufactured goods produced elsewhere. Labor typically being the largest cost component of any manufactured item.
Regulation then further tips the balance in the direction of outsourcing, as the US government has, over the past four decades or so decided to regulate workplace environment, safety, emissions, hazardous waste disposal, energy consumption, etc.......on and on..........
Then there is the sheer absurdity of "taxing the shit" out of a corporation that decides to move their headquarters overseas........how do you propose to do that? Once the corporation has established themselves in a foreign environment, they are out of reach of US taxing authority, unless you propose to impose a tariff on the goods that they import........
And that is the real root of your proposal......protectionism........it has been tried in the past, and rarely works. All that we end up with is that US goods are so expensive that they can marginally only be purchased by US consumers, and manufacturing for export would drop to zero, as our goods would be uncompetitive in the world marketplace.......end result, more jobs and markets lost.
We have evolved into a global marketplace, like it or not, and the only way to survive in it is to compete.......not isolate ourselves with punitive taxation and regulation.......
doc
What you have written above is pretty much exactly how Franklin &Eleanor Roosevelt turned the last significant economic downturn into the longest depression on record and set the stage for WWII. The Queer Horse might not like to hear that but it is the truth, all on the record. Plenty of books on the subject, I recommend FDR's Folly as a great place for dummies to start learning about the former Hero of the democrat party.
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Plus FDR tried to force every business into a guild so that they could not really compete against each other.
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I don't give a rat's ass where my investment money goes, so long as I receive a return on my investment.
Yeah it's greedy oinkers like you that make the shit go round.
I'm not an economist but I have yet to hear a good argument how a sole-proprieter or even an LLC can compete with a large corporation.
Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.
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Protectionism does not work. Ask North Korea.
Did you hear that Venzuela's idiot put price controls on meat?? Now you can't really find it for sale anymore. except on the black market, or the "real" market as they call it.
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There's always rats.
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There's always rats.
North Koreans wish there were rats
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Yeah it's greedy oinkers like you that make the shit go round.
I'm not an economist but I have yet to hear a good argument how a sole-proprieter or even an LLC can compete with a large corporation.
Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.
At least I'm not sitting on my ass, sucking on a bong, eating Cheetos, and waiting for my next government check.......
It is VERY obvious that you are not an economist........the best way to compete with a large corporation is to.......become one........
doc
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Plus FDR tried to force every business into a guild so that they could not really compete against each other.
Yep, and So_damn Insane Obama is following right down the same path to the same dismal failure.
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At least I'm not sitting on my ass, sucking on a bong, eating Cheetos, and waiting for my next government check.......
It is VERY obvious that you are not an economist........the best way to compete with a large corporation is to.......become one........
doc
So your philosophy is be a big business or get the f*ck out of the way? Hmmm, maybe you are not so different from the bongers on well-fare checks.
I don't see why punitive taxing on overseas employment and tax cuts for creating American jobs would be a bad thing. I must have a soul.
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...Luckily I am in the type of business that hasn't been conquered by big business.
Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part... I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.
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Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part... I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.
I do have an actual job now. I still support Christie, who I campaigned for, but lost faith in the GOP. I guess I learned the hard way.
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So your philosophy is be a big business or get the f*ck out of the way? Hmmm, maybe you are not so different from the bongers on well-fare checks.
Well.....my mentor (years ago) in the business world had a saying, that I learned well, it was: "Either lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way........." It has served me well over the years......
I EARN my income........nobody hands it to me..........
doc
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I ain't proposing isolation in economics. In fact I think we should be exporting goods, not importing it.
Hear about the toxic drywall from China? great, we got thousands of architecture poisened because of cheap labor and greed.
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I don't see why punitive taxing on overseas employment and tax cuts for creating American jobs would be a bad thing. I must have a soul.
Well.....you can't tax what you don't have any taxing authority over (overseas employment), and there is nothing wrong with tax cuts to create jobs.........
Across the board slashing of government spending, reduction in all classes of taxes would go a long way to creating not only more jobs, but more government revenue.........Reagan proved that concept.
You will have a difficult time convincing the present crowd in DC to do any of that however.......just political reality.
doc
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Last I'd heard - from you, mind you - you were an unpaid intern with the GOP, and proud to be doing your part... I thought "big business" had K street when they needed somebody to perform fellatio on a politician.
Mustang sounds like another dumbassed friend of mine who was GOP-ing as an intern and suddenly found faith in ronpaul...
sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
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Mustang sounds like another dumbassed friend of mine who was GOP-ing as an intern and suddenly found faith in ronpaul...
sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
I was kind of thinking that this thread had that "ronpaul" stench to it.......
doc
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It's got to be the water................................... :thatsright:
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I ain't proposing isolation in economics. In fact I think we should be exporting goods, not importing it.
And who will buy these high-(over)priced goods?
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Mustang sounds like another dumbassed friend of mine who was GOP-ing as an intern and suddenly found faith in ronpaul...
sometimes you just can't fix stupid.
lol, I'm not into Ron Paul at all. I totally disagree with his foreign policy and economic policy.
I guess the founders intended for big business to control everyone's lives. :koolaid:
There is nothing conservative about supporting big business lobbying to screw over the American people.
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There is nothing conservative about supporting big business lobbying to screw over the American people.
The American people want lower prices.
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There is nothing conservative about supporting big business lobbying to screw over the American people.
Perhaps you can tell us exactly which "big business" is holding a gun to your head forcing you to purchase their products?
doc
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lol, I'm not into Ron Paul at all. I totally disagree with his foreign policy and economic policy.
I guess the founders intended for big business to control everyone's lives. :koolaid:
There is nothing conservative about supporting big business lobbying to screw over the American people.
and you are a ****ing dumbass. I didn't say you had anything to do with ronpaul, but you just read into what anyone else says with your greater than our viewpoint.
You spout 'teh truth' just like a ronulan. You seem to have the same idea of debate as a ronulan. You are just a stupid as a ronulan. Forgive me for mistaking you for a ronulan.
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and you are a ****ing dumbass. I didn't say you had anything to do with ronpaul, but you just read into what anyone else says with your greater than our viewpoint.
You spout 'teh truth' just like a ronulan. You seem to have the same idea of debate as a ronulan. You are just a stupid as a ronulan. Forgive me for mistaking you for a ronulan.
OK, thank you for being a hard-on dickhead. I buy an American car, I buy from American run stores, I must be a "****ing dumbass".
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There is nothing conservative about supporting big business lobbying to screw over the American people.
While we are on the subject.....perhaps you can share with us when was the last time that a Mom & Pop business did any of the following:
Built an automobile
Built an aircraft
Built a power plant
Built an ocean-going vessel
Developed a life-saving drug, or piece of medical equipment
Built a hospital
Built a substantial piece of our military hardware
Built a computer (like the one you are using) or its component parts
Built a communications company
Built a bridge, road, or tunnel
Built an oil refinery
Built a steel mill, aluminium refining plant, rolling mill, or plastics manufacturing facility
I'm gonna go out on a limb, and suggest that 95% of the stuff that you use in your daily life comes from one large corporation or another...........I'll further suggest that the answer to my initial question will be......a really loooong time.
doc
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OK, thank you for being a hard-on dickhead. I buy an American car, I buy from American run stores, I must be a "****ing dumbass".
Hmm....I buy from 'American run Stores' whatever that is. I drive a Ford pick-up truck. Yet...I'm not a dumbass.
explain to me what an 'American run store' is?
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You have cleverly shifted the argument from outsourcing to the good cookie baking qualities of big business.
The point I am trying to make, I don't understand how anyone can see corporations outsourcing as a good thing.
Lower prices for lost jobs? Hey I'm a pretty cheap person myself, frugal would be a better term. But that's not the point.
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You have cleverly shifted the argument from outsourcing to the good cookie baking qualities of big business.
The point I am trying to make, I don't understand how anyone can see corporations outsourcing as a good thing.
Lower prices for lost jobs? Hey I'm a pretty cheap person myself, frugal would be a better term. But that's not the point.
We don't see it as a good thing......we are pragmatic enough to realize that outsourcing is a necessary thing.......in our economy, if the US economy is going to survive.
Since you are so frugal, would you take a job that pays $1.78/hour?
I didn't think so........but those hourly rates for production work are the "competition".....and if you won't take it, then someone somewhere else in the world would.........
As an aside, that job doesn't include: Vacation, health insurance, retirement, or maternity leave......
doc
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OK, thank you for being a hard-on dickhead. I buy an American car, I buy from American run stores, I must be a "****ing dumbass".
Was this "American" car made in Canada or Mexico? Unlike those Japanese cars built in Tennessee.
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I want to make a point that may shine some light. In the past, jobs were more skill-intensive, apprenticeship-like...
Today, everyone is a damn specialist. I'm talking about skilled labor, which has turned into specializations.
I think outsourcing has an effect on that, at least I think it does.
Why am I a "dumbass" for wanting a skilled domestic work force?
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Was this "American" car made in Canada or Mexico? Unlike those Japanese cars built in Tennessee.
I drive a Ford. (http://www.xcomment.com/g1/img/PISS_ON_CHEVY033008062506.gif)
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Today, everyone is a damn specialist. I'm talking about skilled labor, which has turned into specializations.
So you make your own shoes, or do you let a specialist do that?
Without specialization we would all be making our own furniture, growing our own food, making our own clothes and we would have never progressed past the Amish.
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So you make your own shoes, or do you let a specialist do that?
Without specialization we would all be making our own furniture, growing our own food, making our own clothes and we would have never progressed past the Amish.
lol, that's not what I meant. I'll give you an example, the building where I work is from the early 1950's, it's built like a tank, the structural integrity is amazing, I can blast music as loud
as I want and you won't here a damn sound from right outside of it.
Read books from the 50's and 40's and compare it to scholarly writing today.
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read books from the 50's and 40's and compare it to scholarly writing today.
People are getting dumber, totally true.
I tend to doubt we've outsourced the building construction industry though. Kind of hard to build in China and ship over a 30-story building. (SO FAR)
You can probably blame this on local building codes.
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You have cleverly shifted the argument from outsourcing to the good cookie baking qualities of big business.
The point I am trying to make, I don't understand how anyone can see corporations outsourcing as a good thing.
Lower prices for lost jobs? Hey I'm a pretty cheap person myself, frugal would be a better term. But that's not the point.
I don't think outsourcing of jobs is a good thing. However- what is the reason more and more jobs are being lost to overseas? I don't think it's because businesses want to screw over the American people.
I think the point is exactly about being frugal. Businesses could make all that crap in the USA, pay a union worker more money to do it, and end up raising the price of the POS for the consumer. BUT- they don't, pay a sweatshop in the islands to make it and save the US tax payer 3 dollars on a .50 plastic toy. OR China makes it, rakes in 2 dollars, pays thier government owned workers .30 cents, and we still have a 3 dollar toy.
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It seems like the whole outsourcing "system" just promotes mediocrity and poverty.
I had problems with my internet and I had to have to talk to Indian technicians over and over again. Evuentually Verizon thought of me an asshole enough after umteen times of bothering to get a "level 3" technician to handle my situation. They probably wasted a lot of money trying to "fix" a problem that required rewiring at a mainframe.
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If you create American jobs, you get a tax cut.
If you hire people in India, China, Mexico, or any other place in the world, we tax the shit out of you.
And if you have a big ass corporation that tries to evade this by moving your headquarters overseas, we tax the shit out of you even more.
Plain and simple. No regulation. Just common sense
Honestly - that's just plain dumb.
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I want to apologize if I came off like a dickhead, I had a really bad weekend. Been awhile since I've been on the forums.
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I want to make a point that may shine some light. In the past, jobs were more skill-intensive, apprenticeship-like...
Today, everyone is a damn specialist. I'm talking about skilled labor, which has turned into specializations.
I think outsourcing has an effect on that, at least I think it does.
Why am I a "dumbass" for wanting a skilled domestic work force?
Have you had a job yet or are you still an intern? People in glass houses.
BTW - you come across as an uber-lib who doesn't understand a damn thing about business, economics or gov't. Get out in the real world for a while - it'll do you some good.
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Consumer driven free market................................................got it?
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Have you had a job yet or are you still an intern? People in glass houses.
BTW - you come across as an uber-lib who doesn't understand a damn thing about business, economics or gov't. Get out in the real world for a while - it'll do you some good.
I make no apologies for working on the Chris Christie campaign. I'm an uber-lib? How well do you know me? How do you know what knowledge I have?
And yeah I have a job, but what the hell does that have to do anything? Am I supposed to feel bad because I worked on the Chris Chrisitie campaign and didn't have a job for a few months?
Get off your high horse.
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I want to make a point that may shine some light. In the past, jobs were more skill-intensive, apprenticeship-like...
Today, everyone is a damn specialist. I'm talking about skilled labor, which has turned into specializations.
I think outsourcing has an effect on that, at least I think it does.
Why am I a "dumbass" for wanting a skilled domestic work force?
If you actually study the evolution of manufacturing in the US over the past forty years, you would know that the loss of skilled and semiskilled jobs in this country is not due to "outsourcing".
Example: In 1965, an automobile assembly plant with three lines operating three shifts would employ approximately 9,000 people......unskilled, semiskilled, and skilled. Today that same plant will employ approximately 2,000 workers, and most of the semiskilled and skilled jobs are gone. jobs like:
Tool and die makers
Machinists
Welders
Painters
Inspectors
Pipefitters
Production schedulers
These jobs have not been "outsourced", as many of these plants are still operating in the US......what has happened is these workers were replaced by........AUTOMATION
Machinists, tool and die makers, and pipefitters were replaced by CRC machines
Painters, welders, and inspectors were replaced by robotics
Production schedulers, clerks, bookeepers, and accounting personnel were replaced by office automation systems.
With this transition, an entire new group of technological jobs were created, to design, build, maintain and program the robotics and automation systems, and these jobs require a different, and somewhat higher set of skills........during this ongoing transition, some workers will adapt, learn a new skill set, and continue to participate......some will not, and be left behind, obsolete.
It has been happening since the industrial revolution, and will continue.
doc
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I drive a Ford.
In other words, it was Heccho in el Mexico, FGL. Probably at the same plant that made mine.
The more I read this guy, the more moley he smells. He comes here every couple of weeks or so, and whenever he's pressed for details on a position he's taken, the details either never add up, or they sound one step removed from liberal talking points, or he gets flustered and resorts to name-calling like any other Dim'Rat. If I was a suspicious sort, I'd believe that this guy was an agent provocateur, sent here to stir up shit on a conservative board, and then get screen-shots of the rest of us writing "heated, emotionally charged (aka: seditious) rhetoric".
But that would be "paranoid" and "delusional" of me, wouldn't it? :devious:
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In other words, it was Heccho in el Mexico, FGL. Probably at the same plant that made mine.
The more I read this guy, the more moley he smells. He comes here every couple of weeks or so, and whenever he's pressed for details on a position he's taken, the details either never add up, or they sound one step removed from liberal talking points, or he gets flustered and resorts to name-calling like any other Dim'Rat. If I was a suspicious sort, I'd believe that this guy was an agent provocateur, sent here to stir up shit on a conservative board, and then get screen-shots of the rest of us writing "heated, emotionally charged (aka: seditious) rhetoric".
But that would be "paranoid" and "delusional" of me, wouldn't it? :devious:
Nah. He's a dumbass. Might be a DUmbass. Could be a ronulan.
But a dumbass for sure.
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If you actually study the evolution of manufacturing in the US over the past forty years, you would know that the loss of skilled and semiskilled jobs in this country is not due to "outsourcing".
Example: In 1965, an automobile assembly plant with three lines operating three shifts would employ approximately 9,000 people......unskilled, semiskilled, and skilled. Today that same plant will employ approximately 2,000 workers, and most of the semiskilled and skilled jobs are gone. jobs like:
Tool and die makers
Machinists
Welders
Painters
Inspectors
Pipefitters
Production schedulers
These jobs have not been "outsourced", as many of these plants are still operating in the US......what has happened is these workers were replaced by........AUTOMATION
Machinists, tool and die makers, and pipefitters were replaced by CRC machines
Painters, welders, and inspectors were replaced by robotics
Production schedulers, clerks, bookeepers, and accounting personnel were replaced by office automation systems.
With this transition, an entire new group of technological jobs were created, to design, build, maintain and program the robotics and automation systems, and these jobs require a different, and somewhat higher set of skills........during this ongoing transition, some workers will adapt, learn a new skill set, and continue to participate......some will not, and be left behind, obsolete.
It has been happening since the industrial revolution, and will continue.
doc
Once again you are exactly right Doc. I was just reading something similar a few weeks back (in Barron's I think). Problem is the truth doesn't fit with most liberal memes so they choose to ignore it.
Another way to think of it, most liberals are Luddites who see our best days behind us and their glass half empty. They, who believe in nothing, will fall for anything; Obama is living proof of that. They want to go back to piece work and hand dipped candles, to the romanticized the past of their dreams, to Renaissance Fairs in droves they go.
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Nah. He's a dumbass.
The more I read this guy, the more moley he smells.
I guess you guys got a permanent hard-on for me. Probably will give me continued shit if I keep posting on these forums. Nothing I can do about it, but all I'll say is the feeling is mutual for now. :bird:
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I make no apologies for working on the Chris Christie campaign. I'm an uber-lib? How well do you know me? How do you know what knowledge I have?
And yeah I have a job, but what the hell does that have to do anything? Am I supposed to feel bad because I worked on the Chris Chrisitie campaign and didn't have a job for a few months?
Get off your high horse.
You make me chuckle... You elitist hack.
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If you actually study the evolution of manufacturing in the US over the past forty years, you would know that the loss of skilled and semiskilled jobs in this country is not due to "outsourcing".
Example: In 1965, an automobile assembly plant with three lines operating three shifts would employ approximately 9,000 people......unskilled, semiskilled, and skilled. Today that same plant will employ approximately 2,000 workers, and most of the semiskilled and skilled jobs are gone. jobs like:
Tool and die makers
Machinists
Welders
Painters
Inspectors
Pipefitters
Production schedulers
These jobs have not been "outsourced", as many of these plants are still operating in the US......what has happened is these workers were replaced by........AUTOMATION
Machinists, tool and die makers, and pipefitters were replaced by CRC machines
Painters, welders, and inspectors were replaced by robotics
Production schedulers, clerks, bookeepers, and accounting personnel were replaced by office automation systems.
With this transition, an entire new group of technological jobs were created, to design, build, maintain and program the robotics and automation systems, and these jobs require a different, and somewhat higher set of skills........during this ongoing transition, some workers will adapt, learn a new skill set, and continue to participate......some will not, and be left behind, obsolete.
It has been happening since the industrial revolution, and will continue.
doc
Not true doc.............well it is, but not where I work.
We have tool and die makers, welders, inspector...and on and on.
Also an inspector can never be replaced by automation in what I do, checking labels on bottles, there are some awesome vision systems out there that can check 100's a minute and more. However checking the true position of a bore projecting out to 115 inches into space can't be done without a skilled worker making it happen automatically.
We will always have machinist, and I really hope that some of the other countries continue to train ours.............I know a certain German company in their apprentiship makes them hand tool things to learn, where most American companies call em journeymen and can't find their ass with both hands.
On pipefitters doc...........I want to see em build a ship automated.
Regardless we agree on the premise of what you are saying.
Also Unions have caused most of this outsourcing.
Oh yeah and Mustang is a dumbass and couldn't find his ass with both hands............then again if he just grabbed his neck he'd find it as his heads attached
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Not true doc.............well it is, but not where I work.
On pipefitters doc...........I want to see em build a ship automated.
Dheck out a Japanese or Korean shipyard (where most of the large commercial vessels are built today).......virtually all robotics, ships are built in sections, placed by automated cranes, even the wiring is installed robotically, and sections welded together by robotic welders.......the only "pipefitters" are the ones running the systems. Also a robotic welder can lay down a perfect seam EVERY time, without flaw or defect (and monitors its own work with an attached x-ray scanner).......simply amazing to watch.
doc
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There is an interesting article in this weeks Barron's which touches on outsourcing here:
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB127569220682101261.html
If you do not have an account you might be able to get it via bugmenot or just get an actual print copy to read at most libraries.
WITH THE LANDSCAPE LITTERED WITH FAILED banks and fallen corporate icons, and with U.S. households and Washington deep in debt, writing America's obituary is back in vogue. Just as popular is the coronation of China as the world's new economic superpower.
From the ashes of the U.S.-led global financial meltdown, a new world order is in the making. According to popular opinion, America is declining, while China is rising.
The consensus could be wide of the mark. Yes, there is plenty wrong with the U.S. The economic challenges before the nation are Herculean. Yet there is plenty right with America. ....
{fair use slug}
A little peek more at what to expect if you go there:
The U.S. economy is the largest and most productive on the planet. With just 4.6% of the global population, the U.S. accounts for roughly one-quarter of global output, generating more output in a year than the next three largest economies (Japan, China and Germany) combined. America's economy is three times the size of China's; the per capita income of China is only about 10% of that of the U.S.
Warning to lurking primitives: Reading actual facts from this article will cause you to recalibrate your world view. Your hive view of a crumbling America will be dashed by reality.
Side note to the machinist situation: You need the raw material to train. Math skills, science, and physics are a key component but very few I saw had them. It is true more is being done by computers and you can hire operators who just stand pendant in hand but even they need to know when the tool is dull. You can never totally fool proof the system the schools keep turning better fools. Education not indoctrination is the key. I could spend all morning writing about the problems one faces with kids entering the workforce today starting with WORK ETHIC. But I wont. Not here anyhow.
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We don't see it as a good thing......we are pragmatic enough to realize that outsourcing is a necessary thing.......in our economy, if the US economy is going to survive.
Since you are so frugal, would you take a job that pays $1.78/hour?
I didn't think so........but those hourly rates for production work are the "competition".....and if you won't take it, then someone somewhere else in the world would.........
As an aside, that job doesn't include: Vacation, health insurance, retirement, or maternity leave......
doc
I personally don't believe that it is moral to support employment at those standards, which is why I consciously try to avoid buying buying products made in China, not that the standards in most other countries are much better. I have a hierarchy I look at:
Made in USA first, then Canada, Europe, Japan, Korea, then anywhere but China, and I try to buy Chinese made only as a last resort.
I don't want companies to fight to reach the "China Price," the cost of manufacturing in China, because I believe that is immoral to support those working standards.
As a conservative, however, I don't support the government telling me what to buy through tariffs. It is my personal decision, and I'll tell people why I avoid buying some things, and hopefully it will have enough of a ripple effect to make a difference.
I realize that US consumers demand low prices, but I wonder how many consider the cost of those low prices to other people.
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As a conservative, however, I don't support the government telling me what to buy through tariffs. It is my personal decision, and I'll tell people why I avoid buying some things, and hopefully it will have enough of a ripple effect to make a difference.
What you said. And, it is becoming easier to find products Made in USA. Walmart responded to the backlash I guess, and they have a pretty good selection. It can be a challenge, but it can be done.
On a side note, my car is an American car, Hecho in Belgium. :-)