The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on May 09, 2010, 03:53:21 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8301617
MrScorpio (1000+ posts) Sun May-09-10 03:16 PM
Original message
Decriminalize *all * drugs now
The drug laws were first used as tools to manage classes of people (Blacks, latinos and asians). The racist and classist origins of these laws are undeniable.
The prison industrial complex is built of this mish-mash of drug laws that weren't created to deal with drugs at all. Now public prisons are crowded and expensive and more likely to turn non violent drug offenders into violent criminals down the road and as created a private, for profit system that treats inmates as tradable commodities.
This overly costly system is used in lieu in of less costly intervention and rehabilitation.
It has created a system of winners and losers, with jurisdictions going primarily after the low hanging fruit of the poor and minorities and all but ignoring more affluent drug users. Other winners are the pharmaceutical corporations that are supplying society with large quantities of dangerous narcotics, without any legal liability at all, as well as lawyers and politicians who make their bones on the powerless in our courts.
Prohibition created an underground society which makes the people who are drawn into it susceptible to violent crime and the possible dangerous effects of some of the more poisonous of substances, like meth. Also, it has sustained an underground economy, which has the far ranging effect of funding other violent drug wars at home and abroad.
The Drug War is the fuel of a pervasive fascist police state and a coercive kleptocracy through the use of seizure laws.
Decriminalization, would reduce the incidence of police state tactics and policies and reduce the expense of running our police forces, courts and prisons. It would help reduce the demand for drugs with the promotion of intervention and rehabilitation and by making it less glamourous.
It would undercut an underground criminal class and allow the law enforcement and judicial system to apply their resources towards violent crime and white collar crime.
It would also allow jurisdictions to reclassify various types of narcotics in a more common sense manner and promote more effective and equitable responses to wide spread drug use.
I've never used any kind of illegal narcotic or misused legal narcotics ever. I don't even smoke and rarely drink. If all drugs disappeared from the face of the Earth right now, it wouldn't affect me personally at all.
However, I do recognize that the Drug War has much more detrimental effects on society and the lives or ordinary people than beneficial ones.
Decriminalization is the right thing to do.
Brought over for a couple of jaw dropping posts of sheer idiocy.
Webster Green (1000+ posts) Sun May-09-10 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. The drug laws are far more harmful than any drug. (yes, including meth)
If harm reduction is the goal, legalization is the best method to achieve it.
Webster Green (1000+ posts) Sun May-09-10 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. "allow grade school kids free access to meth"
WTF?! That's quite a leap from legalizing drugs.
Educate people to the actual effects of these drugs, then let adults decide what they want to partake in. Humans have been altering their perception with various substances for ages.
The idiotic drug laws are based on years of propaganda disseminated by the government. They are still telling us that pot is as dangerous as heroin.
When I first tried pot, I knew instantly that everything I had been told was total bullshit. I couldn't wait to try heroin. I figured they were probably lying about that as well. In that sense, I guess pot is a gateway drug. If the government told the truth about drugs, maybe the "gateway" effect would be diminished.
Harm reduction means that we put the black market out of business, and stop locking people up for crimes with no victim (with the possible exception of the user). Of course there should be a minimum age for buying the legalized version of these substances. I would suggest 16 years old for pot, and 18 for everything else. I would hate to see teen stoners have to wait till they're 18 to get pot, or risk arrest. Either way, they'll figure out how to get it, just like they do alcohol.
Uncle Joe (1000+ posts) Sun May-09-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. The War on Drugs is in fact a surreptitious Class War being waged by the corporate supremacists
as a means to diminish and disenfranchise the American People from their government and livelihoods.
Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, MrScorpio.
These are the folks that want to be in charge. :censored:
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Woody's still on his 'blame-the-white-man trip, I see. :yawn:
DUmmy logic 101-
Second, most of the time people start using meth because they can't get their drug of choice. Legalization would make other drugs more available & would reduce the demand for meth.
Let me add that the people who turn to meth generally do so because they have "snakes in their heads" from very bad histories of neglect, failures of attachment, and outright abuse of all kinds.
Idiot.
For a Corrections psychologist, you sure don't know shit. Inmates lie, all the time, it's never their own fault. Being a DUmmy you should understand this quite well. They tell you "the snakes made me do it", or "well, I couldn't find any H" because they know a dumbass when they see one and know that you will empathize with them.
Idiot.
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After reading some of these quotes from the DUmpters I cannot tolerate it. The sheer stupidity is unreal. Mexico drug use is legal. I see that is working out just fine![sarc]
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The sheer stupidity is unrea[sarc]
Stupidity, hate and misery are normal for them.
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Can you imagine what the DUmmies would say about legalized meth use on the job?
hahaha
idiots.
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Stupidity, hate and misery are normal for them.
I really truly believe that the left is a unhappy bunch.. Look at Keef Olby and Rachel they just are unhappy on a daily basis, and Mathews is always yelling at something, mind you I cannot watch them much but do tune in once in a while to see what they are up to.
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I really truly believe that the left is a unhappy bunch.. Look at Keef Olby and Rachel they just are unhappy on a daily basis, and Mathews is always yelling at something, mind you I cannot watch them much but do tune in once in a while to see what they are up to.
For the street leftist (DU and others), it is because they want pity: misery loves company. For more elite types, it draws simpletons to their cause ("Government healthcare is a must! Will you please think of the children!").
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After reading some of these quotes from the DUmpters I cannot tolerate it. The sheer stupidity is unreal. Mexico drug use is legal. I see that is working out just fine![sarc]
There are several things that are almost all inclusive when it comes to the primitives at the DUmp cavegal.
One of them is their desire to take from society and then escape from it through drugs.
It is the essence of their being...give them what they want and then let them get stoned.
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I really truly believe that the left is a unhappy bunch.. Look at Keef Olby and Rachel they just are unhappy on a daily basis, and Mathews is always yelling at something, mind you I cannot watch them much but do tune in once in a while to see what they are up to.
They're not happy unless they're not happy . . . and trying to spread their unhappiness (think "spread the wealth").
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One of them is their desire to take from society and then escape from it through drugs.
It is the essence of their being...give them what they want and then let them get stoned.
They already live in another world, leftism-induced. Drugs just make it more colorful.
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There are several things that are almost all inclusive when it comes to the primitives at the DUmp cavegal.
One of them is their desire to take from society and then escape from it through drugs.
It is the essence of their being...give them what they want and then let them get stoned.
I first heard about that site last year, I kept a opened mind and went to it... :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :mental: :banghead: It is hard for me to think of what my parents and uncles who fought for this country would think of the DUmp if they were alive. I thank God they did not. I have a Aunt who is 90 she is livid these days! Oh sorry i digressed didn't I????? :-)
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What could possibly go wrong?
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I know I am probably WAY in the minority here, but I have no problem legalizing pot. Any other drug? No. Meth and heroin especially. Look at what it does to people. No way. No how.
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I know I am probably WAY in the minority here, but I have no problem legalizing pot. Any other drug? No. Meth and heroin especially. Look at what it does to people. No way. No how.
Well, according to 0bama, cocaine is ok "when you can get some"...
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Well, according to 0bama, cocaine is ok "when you can get some"...
Well it is also rumored that Bush was into cocaine. However, I don't care. I don't think it should ever be legal.
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I know I am probably WAY in the minority here, but I have no problem legalizing pot. Any other drug? No. Meth and heroin especially. Look at what it does to people. No way. No how.
Drop your jaw if you will, but I agree. I think Marijuana should be a legal controlled substances strictly for home use after 9:00 PM. Any other use should be a felony, Class 1 Felony if sold/given to or possessed by a minor. It should be sold only at storefronts set up at the local police station. Pot found away from its tax stamped container should be confiscated and the penalty should be a mandatory one year and one day in prison.
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Drop your jaw if you will, but I agree. I think Marijuana should be a legal controlled substances strictly for home use after 9:00 PM. Any other use should be a felony, Class 1 Felony if sold/given to or possessed by a minor. It should be sold only at storefronts set up at the local police station. Pot found away from its tax stamped container should be confiscated and the penalty should be a mandatory one year and one day in prison.
lol My jaw did drop.
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Drop your jaw if you will, but I agree. I think Marijuana should be a legal controlled substances strictly for home use after 9:00 PM. Any other use should be a felony, Class 1 Felony if sold/given to or possessed by a minor.
too late they prescribe it to minors out on the west coast for anything at all, can't wake up to go to school, ADHD, toe jam.
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What could possibly go wrong?
Ask Mexico.
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If we start decriminalizing drugs here in this country...where do we stop?
Because you suddenly make the arguement for several other currently criminalized acts to suddenly be made legal.
This is the proverbial camel's nose under the tent flap.
Think I'm wrong?
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I think most should be decriminalized. As for side effect crimes, such as burglary, theft, etc., those are crimes unto themselves. It can be treated like alcohol, as far as driving; i.e., driving under the influence. But, especially, to jail users solely for using drugs is ridiculous and a drain on an already bloated state.
Employers, of course, can still drug test as much as they want. It will be up to the person to decide if they want to be employable or not. That goes doubly for government programs, although I imagine the ACLU and dummies would be the veritable hornets nest if you add drug testing to welfare requirements. But since we're hypothesizing anyway, add that to the mix.
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If we start decriminalizing drugs here in this country...where do we stop?
Because you suddenly make the arguement for several other currently criminalized acts to suddenly be made legal.
This is the proverbial camel's nose under the tent flap.
Think I'm wrong?
'Sort of. That camel will smell an intoxicant already being used in the tent. One that was illegal at one time. Decriminalizing a substance will not be breaking new ground.
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I would dramatically change the penalties for possession to emphasize no jail time, just a stiff financial penalty if you are caught. Sort of how an NCO at a army school will look at you just before releasing you for the weekend and say, "Remember the new general order about drinking. So make sure YOU DON'T GET CAUGHT DRINKING."
Call the penalties for being caught with a certain amount a "stupid tax."
Still, there will be issues. Imagine a school bus gets plowed in traffic. The driver is killed and several child are badly hurt. It is then revealed the driver was a recreational pot user and tested positive during the autopsy.
Was the driver under the influence at the time? Hard to tell. Heavy pot use can also lead to suppressed reflexes and mental response times even when the user has not recently imbibed (it's called being "burnt-out"). The problem with pot isn't intoxication but that a person can be intoxicated without a means of ready detection, i.e. breathalyzer/blood alcohol testing.
Drawing up a list of professions that cannot participate in the new liberality seems impractical. To say, "No one who is responsible for the care of children, works around food, dispenses medical care, works with heavy machinery, provides government services, drives a motor vehicle, must accurately enter financial data..." would seem to keep the current laws in place in their universal reach.
So what to do?
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'Sort of.
Sort of my foot. Where do we stop?
That camel will smell an intoxicant already being used in the tent.
That's a cop out arguement used by every pot head not stoned enough to still turn the pages on their High Times magazine.
It's an excuse...and not a very good one to justify your lame arguement on this subject.
One that was illegal at one time. Decriminalizing a substance will not be breaking new ground.
An arguement similiar to that was used to justify a hotly contested SCOTUS ruling back in 1972.
Surely you've heard of it.
Roe v. Wade.
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I think most should be decriminalized. As for side effect crimes, such as burglary, theft, etc., those are crimes unto themselves. It can be treated like alcohol, as far as driving; i.e., driving under the influence. But, especially, to jail users solely for using drugs is ridiculous and a drain on an already bloated state.
Employers, of course, can still drug test as much as they want. It will be up to the person to decide if they want to be employable or not. That goes doubly for government programs, although I imagine the ACLU and dummies would be the veritable hornets nest if you add drug testing to welfare requirements. But since we're hypothesizing anyway, add that to the mix.
Ask Mexico how well legalizing all drugs in their country has worked out for them.
You think the killings and beheadings and kidnappings and murders on THIS side of the border by drug cartels and drug gangs are seperate "crimes to themselves"?
Ask the Border Patrol Agents who've been shot at or the widows of those that have been killed if they are seperate crimes unto themselves. You think a Border Agent with a wheel gun and a shotgun stands a chance against a Mexican Army unit with HUMMVEES...m-16's and helicopters...that's been bought off by a drug cartel to help smuggle drugs into this country stands a chance? You think that AGENT seperates the crim of attempted murder from the problems with drug use?
Every time I hear the leagalize drug arguement all I can picture in my head is a bunch of former highschool potheads wanting to relive their stoned HS youth but not have to explain to their boss or their kids why they've got to go to court on a poession charge.
Tell ya what...if you want drugs legalized so bad...work on your congres critters and your senator...get them to draft a Constitutional Amendment. If 2/3rds of the states ratify said amendment...you'll never hear another word from me on this subject again.
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Tell ya what...if you want drugs legalized so bad...work on your congres critters and your senator...get them to draft a Constitutional Amendment. If 2/3rds of the states ratify said amendment...you'll never hear another word from me on this subject again.
Except maybe the inevitable "I told you so".
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I never participate in these debates, let me tell you why. I can see crystal clearly both sides of the fence, and I think they're both right.
(I despise pot, though, and cannot see its appeal. Something tall & cold is more for me).
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Drop your jaw if you will, but I agree. I think Marijuana should be a legal controlled substances strictly for home use after 9:00 PM. Any other use should be a felony, Class 1 Felony if sold/given to or possessed by a minor. It should be sold only at storefronts set up at the local police station. Pot found away from its tax stamped container should be confiscated and the penalty should be a mandatory one year and one day in prison.
I have an 18 year old nephew who thinks Pot ought to be legal. He lays around the house, stays out all night, looks for work only when threatened to be kicked out, and even when I hire him here at the ranch, he's useless! Yeah we need to legalize the ****in' shit! The moron got fired from Burger King for cripes sake!
What a great ****in' idea! Unfortunately, that's what Mary Jane does to ya. It makes ya lazy as hell and unwilling to get off your ass and provide for yourself. His Mom is the preachers daughter and believes sooner or later he'll get a clue. He's been this way since his sophomore year in highschrool! Was suspended several times for ditchin' schrool, stole her car a few times, then started screamin' abuse when his Dad wanted to beat the livin' shit outa him!
Yep, let's legalize Pot!
Pretty hard to get away with drinkin' alcohol during class. Pot, not so much, especially when they're taught by the likes of the teachers we have met at the DUmp! Let's all get on this BandWagon!
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I have an 18 year old nephew who thinks Pot ought to be legal. He lays around the house, stays out all night, looks for work only when threatened to be kicked out, and even when I hire him here at the ranch, he's useless! Yeah we need to legalize the ****in' shit! The moron got fired from Burger King for cripes sake!
What a great ****in' idea! Unfortunately, that's what Mary Jane does to ya. It makes ya lazy as hell and unwilling to get off your ass and provide for yourself. His Mom is the preachers daughter and believes sooner or later he'll get a clue. He's been this way since his sophomore year in highschrool! Was suspended several times for ditchin' schrool, stole her car a few times, then started screamin' abuse when his Dad wanted to beat the livin' shit outa him!
Yep, let's legalize Pot!
Pretty hard to get away with drinkin' alcohol during class. Pot, not so much, especially when they're taught by the likes of the teachers we have met at the DUmp! Let's all get on this BandWagon!
I think you missed the spirit of my post, but it is pretty vague.
Marijuana stops emotional growth at whatever age you happen to be when you become a serious user. It robs the pothead of most personal growth. Your nephew is a good example. His brain is probably that of a lazy 14-year-old.
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I think you missed the spirit of my post, but it is pretty vague.
Marijuana stops emotional growth at whatever age you happen to be when you become a serious user. It robs the pothead of most personal growth. Your nephew is a good example. His brain is probably that of a lazy 14-year-old.
My best friend from high school has smoked a lot of pot since we graduated a looong time ago. He's had some emotional growth, but not too much. What really pissed me off one day, many years ago, was that he actually took a doobie into the woods deer hunting. I was maybe 150 yards away. He lit the doobie up, and a little 3-pointer walked up on him. He said later that he was kinda pissed that he had to put the doob out to shoot the buck. Shot three times; hit once, but it was a double-lung shot. Buck went down near me and died before I could get a shot off, or even see the deer. The kicker was that he vomited as soon as he tried to gut the deer. I still had visions of medical school then, so I got right to it. But it really pissed me off that here I was, trying to deer hunt seriously, and he has a doobie, lights the thing up, and a buck walks up on him . . . He hasn't shot a deer since. I've got seven.
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I think you missed the spirit of my post, but it is pretty vague.
I know some 40 year old "stoners" who like to ride bikes at the skate park and play XBox Live a lot. They still act and talk like juveniles. SO I definitely agree with you.
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WASHINGTON -- The Obama administration's new drug czar says he wants to banish the idea that the U.S. is fighting "a war on drugs," a move that would underscore a shift favoring treatment over incarceration in trying to reduce illicit drug use.
The Obama administration is likely to deal with drugs as a matter of public health rather than criminal justice alone, with treatment's role growing relative to incarceration, Mr. Kerlikowske said.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124225891527617397.html
The chart shows no significant increase in drug use, but a major increase in treatment admissions for pot/meth. What it doesn't show is that how many of those were court-ordered.
No one seeks treatment for smoking pot voluntarily.
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I never participate in these debates, let me tell you why. I can see crystal clearly both sides of the fence, and I think they're both right.
(I despise pot, though, and cannot see its appeal. Something tall & cold is more for me).
Yep, same here. I can see both sides, and there are compelling arguments either way.
Nevertheless, I did give my kids a directive when they were old enough to drink-get drunk, not high, because one's legal and one isn't. And, NEVER drive intoxicated.
DD will turn 25 this Sunday. She's pulling an all nighter with some friends at their house. I expect she'll get home sometime before work on Monday.
My kids told me one time I'd taken all the fun out of drinking and smoking since when they were teenagers I told them they could do both, in my house only. They took me up on it once or twice and quit. Nowadays neither one smokes and they only drink on special and rare occasions.
My parents did the same for me and I turned out okay. Heh, IMHO of course.
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Most of us here can see both sides of every argument crystal clear. That's why we are conservatives. The world REALLY REALY is black and white. There really is a right and there really is a wrong. Blindfolds and gray areas are for liberals and losers and Little Goons at DU.
We conservatives know, deep in our hearts (brains), exactly what is right - even if we don't always express it as our opinion.
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My kids told me one time I'd taken all the fun out of drinking and smoking since when they were teenagers I told them they could do both, in my house only.
and orgies, don't forget the orgies with strangers.
//sarcasm
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You should see some of the venom directed towards Lord Zero.
Obama Administration ‘Firmly Opposes’ Marijuana Legalization — Here’s Why
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8319567
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and orgies, don't forget the orgies with strangers.
//sarcasm
:thatsright:DOH! I KNEW I forgot something. :naughty: