The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: The Village Idiot on April 23, 2010, 07:57:30 AM
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http://www.mysinchew.com/node/38114
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SEOUL, April 23 (AFP) - North Korea seized South Korean-owned assets at a mountain resort Friday, warning that the two countries were on the brink of war over the sinking of a warship on their disputed border.
The communist state also declared that highly symbolic cross-border tours to the scenic Mount Kumgang resort had been halted for good, accusing South Korean President Lee Myung-Bak of pursuing "confrontation" with the North.
The action comes amid high tension over the sinking of a South Korean warship last month that left 46 sailors dead.
"The situation has reached such extreme phase that it is at the crossroads of a war or peace, much less thinking of the resumption of the tour," a North Korean state agency said.
"It is quite natural that we can no longer show generosity and tolerance to the south side under this situation."
North Korea last week expelled staff and sealed five buildings owned by the Seoul government at the Kumgang resort in protest at Seoul's refusal to restart cross-border tours.
It said Friday it was seizing the five buildings while freezing "all the remaining real estates" at the resort and expelling all their management personnel.
The move came hard on the heels of a report by the South's Yonhap news agency Thursday which quoted a senior military source as saying it was suspected that North Korean submarines attacked the ship with a heavy torpedo.
Pyongyang, which has denied responsibility, accused Seoul of linking it to the blast "deliberately", describing Lee as a "traitor".
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Maybe someone with a tad more knowledge of the situation can help out here--wouldn't the superiority of the ROKs allow them to kick the ass of the NoKos?
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Maybe someone with a tad more knowledge of the situation can help out here--wouldn't the superiority of the ROKs allow them to kick the ass of the NoKos?
You're forgetting the 800lb joker in this deck: the ChiComs. If the NorKs get pushed back to the Yalu river again, like they did 60 years ago, are the ChiComs going to jump to their "defense", like they did 60 years ago?
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This does not look good. Not one bit. Not one iota.
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Maybe someone with a tad more knowledge of the situation can help out here--wouldn't the superiority of the ROKs allow them to kick the ass of the NoKos?
The NoKos have nukes.
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On paper, N.K. outnumbers S.K. in total troops. But there are so many variables (China, UN, lack of food in N.K., etc...) that what would ultimately occur if a war breaks out (which I doubt) is anyone's guess really. Remember, before Operation Desert Storm we estimated high U.S. casualties based on paper estimates of Hussein's forces.
If there was a full scale war and the South began to advance then I don't doubt for a second that they would use nukes (if they really have them).
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The NoKos have nukes.
Small correction. The NorKs 'claim' to have functional nukes, and it is highly probable that their claims are at least loosely factual. The rest of that story, however, is that they have never had a successful test of said nuclear device, and their "delivery system" keeps exploding shortly off the launch pad whenever they test that.
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I am sure they could put them on a plane. Probably have a few that are functional. Might be a suicide mission though.
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I can tell ya right now, that there's some serious ass-puckering going on over at 7th Fleet in Yoko right now, carrier battle group or not. Those guys are earning their paychecks today.
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I can tell ya right now, that there's some serious ass-puckering going on over at 7th Fleet in Yoko right now, carrier battle group or not. Those guys are earning their paychecks today.
It would be a good time for the NoKo's to attack with some of the 7th Fleet away.
US Navy Prepares to Participate in Exercise Malabar 2010
GOA, India (NNS) -- Ships, submarines and aircraft from the U.S. Navy's 7th Fleet arrived in Goa, India, April 23 to begin exercise Malabar 2010 hosted by the Indian Navy.
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=52826
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It would be a good time for the NoKo's to attack with some of the 7th Fleet away.
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=52826
Yike. The timing is crazy.
I bet China would grab the Spratley's and Russia would grab Georgia and the middle east could explode. literally. All while Obama is hiding under his desk.
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It would be perfect timing for the Nonks to start something. How long they could go on is another thing with part of the 2nd ID in the ME.
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At a minimum Seoul disappears under a barrage of 10,000 tubes of artillery and the economic shockwave of that event on top of a global recession pushes us into a depression.
NoKo loses but even if they don't get pushed to the Yalu, China cannot/will not allow a democratic, unified Korea on its doorstep.
That said: More than likely this is an effort to test the man-child at 1600 Pennsylvania.
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That said: More than likely this is an effort to test the man-child at 1600 Pennsylvania.
Agreed. Any bets on how The Incompetent One scores on this test? :therock:
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Agreed. Any bets on how The Incompetent One scores on this test? :therock:
No bets, I just wonder what side he'll be on
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No bets, I just wonder what side he'll be on
I don't. I only wonder how obvious he'll be about it.
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He won't take sides...that actually takes fortitude and we all know he has none.
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It would be a good time for the NoKo's to attack with some of the 7th Fleet away.
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=52826
Hmmmm...some Yoko-based ships, but the Annapolis, IIRC, is out of Groton, and the USS Chafee is out of Pearl. None of which normally part of the USS GW CVBG...
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Checking out 7th fleet videos now.
http://www.c7f.navy.mil/videos.htm
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Agreed. Any bets on how The Incompetent One scores on this test? :therock:
He'll score an A+ in Lip Service and a C- in Teleprompter Reading.
F- or Not Completed in all other subjects.
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This is really concerning for me. North Korea is getting more bolder each time. If North Korea invaded South Korea, it will be a real mess.
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He'll score an A+ in Lip Service and a C- in Teleprompter Reading.
F- or Not Completed in all other subjects.
To be fair I think the best strategy at this point is to ignore the Norks.
Simply put: we cannot afford a war that guarantees Chinese intervention. That's TWO nuclear armed adversaries one of which will have nothing to lose. It'll be bad enough when the Norks collapse under their own weight (maybe this is a harbinger?) and China insists in mediating the reunification of the peninsula. We sure as **** don't need a war with the Norks and Chinese when we have a surge in A-stan and are mopping-up in Iraq and a new regional war in the Persian Gulf only a few months away.
Kim is woofing again. We've seen these hyperventilating melodramas a thousand times. Even US service members have been killed without retaliation. It sucks but we shrug it off. The SoKos should do everything they can to defend their assets but retaliation seems like throwing hand grenades to kill a mouse in your kitchen. You'll get the ****ing mouse alright, but at what cost?
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To be fair I think the best strategy at this point is to ignore the Norks.
Simply put: we cannot afford a war that guarantees Chinese intervention. That's TWO nuclear armed adversaries one of which will have nothing to lose. It'll be bad enough when the Norks collapse under their own weight (maybe this is a harbinger?) and China insists in mediating the reunification of the peninsula. We sure as **** don't need a war with the Norks and Chinese when we have a surge in A-stan and are mopping-up in Iraq and a new regional war in the Persian Gulf only a few months away.
Kim is woofing again. We've seen these hyperventilating melodramas a thousand times. Even US service members have been killed without retaliation. It sucks but we shrug it off. The SoKos should do everything they can to defend their assets but retaliation seems like throwing hand grenades to kill a mouse in your kitchen. You'll get the ******* mouse alright, but at what cost?
Everytime I read your posts, I get smarter.
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To be fair I think the best strategy at this point is to ignore the Norks.
You can't ignore them when they are sinking your vessels, sending assassins to your country and seizing your assets
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You can't ignore them when they are sinking your vessels, sending assassins to your country and seizing your assets
I think he meant the US's strategy?
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N. Korea would lose such a conflict. I don't think anyone in the world doubts that. The issue is we're gonna face is the blood. I'd say it would be a conservative estimate to say hundreds of thousands would be dead in the first day. Hundreds to maybe thousands of U.S. Servicemembers in that number.
If N. Korea tries anything, now would be the time to do it. We've shown the world that we spit on our allies, and cozy up to what has until now been our enemies. Jong Il might think that if he can deliver a strong enough blow, he'll scare Obama out of the fight, and then he'll have a much better chance at beating the ROK on his own. Given that are military has faced non-stop heavy deployments for 9 years now, he may feel we can't muster a sufficient response as well.
I would like to think that this won't happen. As far as I'm aware, Congress still has the authority to declare war, and I doubt even Pelosi and Reid has the balls to tell the American people they won't act against such an unprovoked attack by an actual sovereign nation.
I personally think it's all bluster though. Between the Pacific Fleet and PACAF, we have enough air assets to cripple their air defenses, and their ground equipment doesn't stand a chance in a prolonged fight with the modern ROK military.
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No bets, I just wonder what side he'll be on
No doubt about it. The Purple Lipped Cock Sucker in Chief would sue for peace.
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No doubt about it. The Purple Lipped Cock Sucker in Chief would sue for peace.
Either that or apologize to them
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North Korea has been saying war is imminent almost daily since 1953.
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North Korea has been saying war is imminent almost daily since 1953.
Unfortunately, eventually someone is just crazy and ballsy enough to start something.
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Agreed. Any bets on how The Incompetent One scores on this test? :therock:
A solid B+.
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I don't think the South has any intention of trying to invade the North, but may conduct some kind of punitive strike or raid if things continue to deteriorate. The North however is entirely crazy enough to try attacking the South.
I also don't think either the Chinese or Russians really have a burning desire to throw gas on the fire at this point, no matter how weak they perceive Obama to be (Which honestly has got to be 'Pretty damned weak') because the economic consequences for all concerned would drastically outweigh the value of any territorial gains.
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I also don't think either the Chinese or Russians really have a burning desire to throw gas on the fire at this point, no matter how weak they perceive Obama to be (Which honestly has got to be 'Pretty damned weak') because the economic consequences for all concerned would drastically outweigh the value of any territorial gains.
Absolutely.
However, that being said, do you think the Chinese would remain idle if the Norks instigated general hostilities?
Whether by war or general collapse, if and when the DPRK goes tits-up the Chinese will have a massive refugee problem, a giant money hole and a Pacific Asian economy trying to contend with the massive humanitarian crisis rather than buying Chinese goods.
Not to mention thoughts of a reunified Korea must give them fits. I can't see them tolerating a US presence on such a peninsula. Perhaps a negotiated US withdrawal from Korea to nearby bases in exchange for promises of Chinese recognition of the reunified Korea.
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MSB, I think the Chinese would secretly love to see the Norks get a beatdown and see their current rulers wiped out, as long as it did not involve the South actually moving north and attempting to unify the peninsula under their flag.
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MSB, I think the Chinese would secretly love to see the Norks get a beatdown and see their current rulers wiped out, as long as it did not involve the South actually moving north and attempting to unify the peninsula under their flag.
Thus they are as divorced from the reality of the whole action/consequence cycle as any other statist/socialist/marxist.
At least the "American" DUmmies are in good company.
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S Korea raises bow of sunken vessel.
S Korea, US say no military response is coming.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_korea_ship
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SEOUL (Reuters) – South Korea on Saturday raised the front half of a warship that exploded and sank a month ago near a contested sea border with North Korea, finding clues that support growing suspicions Pyongyang attacked the vessel.
The 1,200-tonne corvette Cheonan sank in what military officials said was likely a torpedo attack.
Forty-six South Korean sailors were killed in what could be one of the deadliest strikes by Pyongyang on its rival since the end of the 1950-53 Korean War. The North has denied involvement.
South Korea's president on Friday gave the clearest signal yet Seoul had no plan to launch a revenge attack, calming investors worried that armed conflict would damage the South's rapidly recovering economy.
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(http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/photo/yna/YH/2010/04/24/PYH2010042400710001301_P2.jpg)
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(http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/photo/yna/YH/2010/04/24/PYH2010042400710001301_P2.jpg)
Not to thread hijack, but that's an amazing picture.
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There are a ton of pics from this event at this FR thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2499651/posts
(http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/photo/yna/YH/2010/04/24/PYH2010042402170001300_P2.jpg)
and this pic suggests they did not get hit by their own torpedo. Not that I thought that was a real possibility.
(http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/photo/yna/YH/2010/04/24/PYH2010042404710006500_P2.jpg)
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MSB, I think the Chinese would secretly love to see the Norks get a beatdown and see their current rulers wiped out, as long as it did not involve the South actually moving north and attempting to unify the peninsula under their flag.
I'm trying to imagine a scenario where SoKo dispatches the Norks and DOESN'T try to reunify. What kind of government could replace the DPRK and be acceptable to both SoKo and the ChiComs?
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I'm trying to imagine a scenario where SoKo dispatches the Norks and DOESN'T try to reunify. What kind of government could replace the DPRK and be acceptable to both SoKo and the ChiComs?
I expect the Norks will come up missing a submarine in due course.
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Judging by the pictures I say that there's no way it was a mine. But I may be wrong. That explosion happened amidships. I suspect either a torpedo or maybe even a boiler room explosion.
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All of its own torpedo's are accounted for now.
SO it wasn't that
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Judging by the pictures I say that there's no way it was a mine. But I may be wrong. That explosion happened amidships. I suspect either a torpedo or maybe even a boiler room explosion.
Nah, I think if there was any chance at all of the boilers exploding we would be hearing that ad naseum from the media.
(http://img.yonhapnews.co.kr/photo/yna/YH/2010/04/24/PYH2010042401940001300_P2.jpg)
Wouldn't a boiler room explosion caused metal to be bent outward, at least at the back of this part of the split ship?
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FGL, to a neophyte on naval matters such as me, it would seem that a boiler explosion would bend the metal outward . . . but they probably had turbines, so boilers would not be on board, I think.
I think that DAT's dead on here. The NoKos will come up missing a couple of subs soon, and the Chinese will silently assent to the sinkings.
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Well, it was China that gave them those fancy new torpedo's with the larger explosives I bet.