The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Thor on March 28, 2010, 09:42:21 PM
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Seven arrested in FBI raids linked to Christian militia group
Jennifer Chambers / The Detroit News
(http://cmsimg.detnews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=C3&Date=20100328&Category=METRO&ArtNo=3280313&Ref=V2)
At least seven people, including some from Michigan, have been arrested in raids by a FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana as part of an investigation into an Adrian-based Christian militia group, a person familiar with the matter said.
The suspects are expected to make an initial appearance in U.S. District Court in Detroit on Monday.
On Sunday, a source close to the investigation in Washington, D.C. confirmed that FBI agents were conducting activities in Washtenaw and Lenawee counties over the weekend in connection to Hutaree, a Christian militia group. Detroit FBI Special Agent Sandra Berchtold told The Detroit News the federal warrants in the case are under court seal and declined further comment.
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Sources have said the FBI was in the second day of raids around the southeastern Michigan city of Adrian that are connected to a militia group, known as the Hutaree, an Adrian-based group whose members describe themselves as Christian soldiers preparing for the arrival and battle with the anti-Christ.
WXYZ-TV reports that helicopters were spotted in the sky for much of Saturday night, and agents set up checkpoints throughout the area. Witnesses told the station that it was like a small army had descended on the area. The Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force are also involved in the raids.
Mike Lackomar, of Michiganmilitia.com, said both The Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia and the Michiganmilitia.com were not a part of the raid.
Lackomar said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations.
"Last night and into today the FBI conducted a raid against homes belonging to the Hutaree. They are a religious cult. They are not part of our militia community," he said.
Lackomar said he was told there were five arrests Saturday and another five early Sunday. The FBI declined to comment.
One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member -- who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats -- declined to offer help. That Michigan militia leader is now working with federal officials to provide information on the Hutaree member for the investigation, Lackomar said Sunday.
"They are more of survivalist group and in an emergency they withdraw and stand their ground. They are actively training to be alongside Jesus," he said.
Sources from the Michigan militia community said one of the FBI raids took place Saturday during a wake for a Hutaree member who had died of natural causes. A Hutaree leader was arrested during the wake while at the same time agents were conducting raids at other locations.
The Associated Press is reporting that FBI spokesman Scott Wilson in Cleveland said agents arrested two people Saturday in northwest Ohio. A third arrest was made in Illinois on Sunday, a day after raids in northwest Indiana.
Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on Islamic-American Relations of Michigan, made an announcement Sunday during the group's 10th anniversary banquet about receiving a call from a network journalist about the alleged threat against Muslims.
"Don't allow this news to scare you away from practicing your faith," said Walid.
Audible gaps were heard throughout the banquet hall when the news was announced. Walid said he will call local authorities about more information on the allegations. He urged local Muslims to recommitt themselves to their faith in light of the accusations.
David Shepardson and Oralandar Brand-Williams contributed to this report. jchambers@detnews.com
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100328/METRO/3280313/Seven-arrested-in-FBI-raids-linked-to-Christian-militia-group#ixzz0jWtc6NhD
So, the Muslims can make threats against Christians and nothing happens to them, but if a Christian group makes threats towards Muslims, they are rounded up and arrested..... I fail to see the parity here. After all, the Muslims have boldly stated they want to kill Americans.
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Hi ,
I read the article twice. Just exactly what were they charged with when they were arrested, were they arrested by the thought police.
If you can get arrested for what you are thinking, all you have to do is have a good looking young chick walk into a bar and 99% of the men could be arrested. Nowdays the reverse would likely be true also.
regards,
5412
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Hi ,
I read the article twice. Just exactly what were they charged with when they were arrested, were they arrested by the thought police.
If you can get arrested for what you are thinking, all you have to do is have a good looking young chick walk into a bar and 99% of the men could be arrested. Nowdays the reverse would likely be true also.
regards,
5412
I'm sure that some trumped up legal charges will be forthcoming from the DOJ and DHS.
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There is a Muslim , gated, chainlink fenced, compound not more than 35 miles from me. They have a firing range and all.....when is the gummint going to invade their compound and arrest religious fundamentalist?
....Oh that's right.... never.....hell, them muzzies actually kill people.
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Too bad they can't find any Michigan Mosques preaching hate and violence
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Too bad they can't find any Michigan Mosques preaching hate and violence
What kind of fairy tale land do you live in? There are no mosques that would do that in the U.S.! They are all peace loving little fuzzy snuggly bears.
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the Hutaree, an Adrian-based group whose members describe themselves as Christian soldiers preparing for the arrival and battle with the anti-Christ.
Perhaps this was what got them arrested.....not their "issues" with Muslims.....as some folks feel the anti-Christ is already here..... :uhsure:
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What kind of fairy tale land do you live in? There are no mosques that would do that in the U.S.! They are all peace loving little fuzzy snuggly bears.
Reading between the lines tells me that it was Muslims that called in the feds
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Hi ,
I read the article twice. Just exactly what were they charged with when they were arrested, were they arrested by the thought police.
If you can get arrested for what you are thinking, all you have to do is have a good looking young chick walk into a bar and 99% of the men could be arrested. Nowdays the reverse would likely be true also.
regards,
5412
I have no more idea what really happened than anyone else, but from the sound of it some of their members apparently told someone they were going to actively do something illegal as a group, carelessly or intentionally, which reached the ears of John Law, and that's really all it takes to get search warrants for evidence of an illegal conspiracy.
Informers and loudmouths are the bane of conspiracies, from the Gunpowder Plot to the present day.
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Charges are out: "seditious Conspiracy" and "Attempted use of a WMD"......... It's been alleged that members of the group wanted to kill a police officer and then kill the mourners at the officer's funeral.
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Perhaps this was what got them arrested.....not their "issues" with Muslims.....as some folks feel the anti-Christ is already here..... :uhsure:
The release states weapons charges. Waco anyone?
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The release states weapons charges. Waco anyone?
Ruby Ridge seems appropriate as well.
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Could this be a warning shot across the bow of the April 19th pro-gun rally in DC?
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I have no more idea what really happened than anyone else, but from the sound of it some of their members apparently told someone they were going to actively do something illegal as a group, carelessly or intentionally, which reached the ears of John Law, and that's really all it takes to get search warrants for evidence of an illegal conspiracy.
Informers and loudmouths are the bane of conspiracies, from the Gunpowder Plot to the present day.
I have no doubt that what your saying is true, yet by law, you cannot arrest someone on the basis of a theory or what someone said alone. It goes back to what 5412 is saying, what law did they actually break? Now as with anything in this world they could find some erroneous detail like failure to use a blinker while driving then raid. Yet what we are entering into is thought crime.
Seriously how many gun owners out there wished that Pelosi would have dropped dead when HC was passed? Does that put anyone who thought this into violation as well? Should we be arrested? My point here is while I think this group may have been a bit whacked out, I tend to take whatever I hear on the news these days with a grain of salt. It seems like when they wish to paint someone as evil they do so with ease to reach the agenda they wish. Just because I hear people at Tea Parties are racist evil haters of equal rights, well I dont believe that either.
It just makes me raise an eyebrow as to what was behind the raid. It looks to me more like a preemptive strike. I understand they were conspiring to do this or that, or was it just a bunch of really bad jokes of what they "could" do if they wanted to and someone ran to big brother?
Wheres the proof?
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I have been reading the comments on Fox News people post about the story, and also on YouTube and all I know to say is WTF!!! I mean this is ******* crazy. People are going at each other like sharks. Man all this place needs is a spark and the whole country could erupt into a blaze. WTH happened to this country........
:banghead:
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Actually Javelin, all it takes to arrest and convict every member of a criminal conspiracy is proof of one overt act by any ONE single member of that conspiracy. One overt act could, in certain circumstances, be merely verbal, such as an inquiry attempting to purchase necessary equipment for the plot.
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I have been reading the comments on Fox News people post about the story, and also on YouTube and all I know to say is WTF!!! I mean this is ******* crazy. People are going at each other like sharks. Man all this place needs is a spark and the whole country could erupt into a blaze. WTH happened to this country........
:banghead:
0Bama.
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Actually Javelin, all it takes to arrest and convict every member of a criminal conspiracy is proof of one overt act by any ONE single member of that conspiracy. One overt act could, in certain circumstances, be merely verbal, such as an inquiry attempting to purchase necessary equipment for the plot.
What if that single member were an undercover ATF agent?
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0Bama.
you beat me to it! :hi5:
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Actually Javelin, all it takes to arrest and convict every member of a criminal conspiracy is proof of one overt act by any ONE single member of that conspiracy. One overt act could, in certain circumstances, be merely verbal, such as an inquiry attempting to purchase necessary equipment for the plot.
Ok I can understand that completely and it makes perfect sense. Dont get me wrong. But I just raise an eyebrow anytime I see something like this. How difficult would it be to twist something into a conspiracy because someone could wish it so? Such as some of the left wingers that have been arrested for "plotting" to kill the president. Some of them had no more means of committing such an act as my five year old, nor the intelligence.
I guess what I am saying is there is a fine line between a conspiracy and "thought crime". But it will take a lot of time for the proof I am looking for to come out. No one has those answers at the moment but the police.
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Well, your concerns aren't completely unjustified, and that's kind of rolled up in FGL's comment about ATFE agents becoming too 'Active' as participants and then promoting mere talk into a full-blown conspiracy by their own actions. Stranger things have certainly happened...especially when one agency has a black program to infiltrate an organization, and doesn't want to compromise their source by telling another agency that it actually has a guy inside.
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I think the whole thing is a load of crap.
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It's interesting to contrast this event, from a national Justice Dept. policy perspective, to the approach of the Clinton Administration.
If you recall the Clinton Justice Department focused a significant percentage of their resources "internally" towards militia groups, and survivalists communities.......administrative, institutionalized, paranoia.......rather than picking up on the growing threat of Islamic fundamentalism.......
Clinton (a leftist) appeared to view the biggest threat to his administration as internal.....coming from the American citizenry.......where GWB did not (of course 9/11 changed everything)......
Now we have another "leftist" in the White House......and right on cue......his Justice Dept. views the American citizen as the "enemy".....
doc
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It's interesting to contrast this event, from a national Justice Dept. policy perspective, to the approach of the Clinton Administration.
If you recall the Clinton Justice Department focused a significant percentage of their resources "internally" towards militia groups, and survivalists communities.......administrative, institutionalized, paranoia.......rather than picking up on the growing threat of Islamic fundamentalism.......
Clinton (a leftist) appeared to view the biggest threat to his administration as internal.....coming from the American citizenry.......where GWB did not (of course 9/11 changed everything)......
Now we have another "leftist" in the White House......and right on cue......his Justice Dept. views the American citizen as the "enemy".....
doc
I agree with this analogy completely.
Yet after hearing an interview with the militia leaders former fiance... if shes telling the truth and it sounded like she was, these people are crack pots! She said that the guy refused to get a drivers license because he believed the government did not have a right to force him to. There was also a connotation of how he was not just anti government but also anti everything. Sounded to me like the man was a schizophrenic nut case.
But still I will hold my final judgment until more comes out via the courts.
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But still I will hold my final judgment until more comes out via the courts.
Well, in a perfect world there wouldn't be a need to have a license to drive
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I agree with this analogy completely.
Yet after hearing an interview with the militia leaders former fiance... if shes telling the truth and it sounded like she was, these people are crack pots! She said that the guy refused to get a drivers license because he believed the government did not have a right to force him to. There was also a connotation of how he was not just anti government but also anti everything. Sounded to me like the man was a schizophrenic nut case.
But still I will hold my final judgment until more comes out via the courts.
While I have no idea if this particular dude was one of them, there is a strain of thought out in the far fringes of the militia movement that the central government is not legitimate and has no authority to engage in domestic law enforcement (Among many other things), or license any use of private property. Some claim to recognize no law enforcement authority but the County Sheriff (Since he is elected by popular vote), which is kind of ironic because it's not like they're any more willing to accept service of process from Sheriffs than State Police, U.S. Marshals, or anyone else, either. These guys make/print 'Constitutional license plates' and put them on their cars, and print 'Constitutional drivers licenses' to carry; some of the products look fairly like the real thing to a casual observer, but they are a real red flag to law enforcement guys.
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Lackomar said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats of violence against Islamic organizations.
End of story. :banghead:
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End of story. :banghead:
Hey now, that constitutes direct threat against the jug-eared one.
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Some people are sure insane that is for sure. I hope they all get locked up for life
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
Okay, thanks for playing--what do we have for our loser troll today, Johnny?
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
Are ya stoned or just frikkin stupid?
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
:hammer:
Ok.... so your apparently for a direct armed revolution Mr. Stormrider. Let me put this into perspective for you and pull you from your land of insanity into reality. Lets just pretend for a moment that you could, lol yeah right, be successful at pulling off a revolt. Do you not think for one moment that China or Russia would not be willing to attempt to take their piece of the pie? Or do you presume to fight the US Government, China and Russia all at the same time with your AR15? ....... Sure.
Now I worked in military intel. I worked in some shady places and with some amazing people. I learned a lot, a whole lot in my time. Yet what people like you fail to understand is that for your little Rambo revolution to work you would have to have the support of the population. Now let me ask you one quick question. How much support will you get from killing citizens? Police are citizens, just like you and me. You will be crushed. You will gain no support.
You are attempting to fight an idea, a philosophy, an ideology. You do not fight those with weapons and most certainly NOT by killing innocent civilians. So where exactly do you hope to start your little revolution? I mean I could at least understand it perhaps if you had a personal beef with someone specifically but then I wouldnt call it insanity, it would just be murder.
Now in real terms. Is it at all possible that we could find ourselves within the kind of world that we are within civil war or revolution? Absolutely. Yet it would be caused by some great external or internal force, for example: the collapse of the EU economy, collapse of the US economy, over reach of government that is rejected en mass by the US population (sorry not the HC bill it doesnt even come close). Your talking about a TEOTWAWKI scenarios (The End Of The World As We Know It). Now survivalists out there have been preaching about these scenarios for quite some time. As of recently I see several of them as being really valid and really possible to take place within the next few years. Yet there is nothing that your little idiot self can do to further the decent into chaos unless you have a way of lending a few trillion dollars to the US government and then call in your markers. I doubt you have that much power.
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
Ah...the Stormfront crowd checks in.
:bird:
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
That is over the line.
Do not do it again.
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I'm sorry that so many of you find patriotism to be offensive; but some of us have no intention of standing idly by while the country we love is turned into an african/socialist hellhole.
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I'm sorry that so many of you find patriotism to be offensive; but some of us have no intention of standing idly by while the country we love is turned into an african/socialist hellhole.
Ah, a true believer. Do you enjoy sucking ronpauls' cock?
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Oh well. Holy crap. TGIF!
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Ok.... so your apparently for a direct armed revolution Mr. Stormrider. Let me put this into perspective for you and pull you from your land of insanity into reality. Lets just pretend for a moment that you could, lol yeah right, be successful at pulling off a revolt. Do you not think for one moment that China or Russia would not be willing to attempt to take their piece of the pie?
That is why we should wait for the Great Fall, because the rest of the world will be in the same sorry state we are when we decide to dispatch the politicians, media, academia and Hollywierdos.
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I'm sorry that so many of you find patriotism to be offensive; but some of us have no intention of standing idly by while the country we love is turned into an african/socialist hellhole.
So, your solution is to emulate the Hutaree and plant pipe bombs at LEO's funerals? Do you think these local PD's are some sort of automaton factories pumping out "Terminators" and these folks don't have extended families whom love and care for them and would want to see your ass strung up from the nearest oak tree post haste for taking their lives?
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Hard to say if these folks are crazy or not....more than likely that's just a pile of Fed propaganda. The idea of killing the cop then setting off bombs at the funeral was brilliant however. Those of us who ARE serious about taking our country back need to be thinking along these lines more often.
We are not advocating violent overthrow of the government. You may want to seek like minds elsewhere.
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I bet he is a lib troll, so transparent.
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I'm sorry that so many of you find patriotism to be offensive; but some of us have no intention of standing idly by while the country we love is turned into an african/socialist hellhole.
My your daughters grow up to do bi-racial gang-bang porn.
We are not advocating violent overthrow of the government. You may want to seek like minds elsewhere.
I think he should suck start a .357.
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I'm sorry that so many of you find patriotism to be offensive; but some of us have no intention of standing idly by while the country we love is turned into an african/socialist hellhole.
Your brand of patriotism is more like anarchy. How much history do you study? None? I guess its too difficult for you to read and fully comprehend how something like your advocating would just turn this nation into the middle east. You know normally, when an army goes to war the general has a clear objective and plan for victory with a nation behind him willing to support. I mean even George Washington met all the qualifications for being a commanding general. So exactly how many nutjob farmers do you have supporting your plan? Oh yeah thats right your not a general and aside from some YouTube experience and a few paint balls later you think your ready..... yeah.
I will be watching Fox News to see how well this turns out for you. :popcorn:
And everyone on these forums thought those of us who would be willing to consider a 3rd party was crazy. :rotf:
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We are not advocating violent overthrow of the government. You may want to seek like minds elsewhere.
Amateurs, pure Amateur's if you ask me. They have about as much a chance of causing any kind of change as Charles Manson and his groupies did in starting a race war.
Seems these people feed on self delusion, and stupid actions, lots of male totestone and egos that would be funny were they not armed and in plain sight.
Obviously these jerks are sheep following some idiot that has no idea what they are doing.
As an old lady I believe I could run a group better then their leaders---numbskulls.
First mistake they make is to advertise themselves by running about with shaved heads and wearing cameo clothing. Second mistake is the members keep to themselves, they make no moves to appear to be "normal" people.
Taking a hint from the Mafia, they should be educating their kids to become lawyers and doctors, undertakers and cops. Look and act respectable.
They live in run down shacks and trailers and make no move to appear to have concern for their living areas, no painting, cleaning the yard, planting food gardens or any kind of sprucing up the place.
They deal in drugs to make money for fire arms and weekends spent blowing up targets when they could be helping each other out to improve their lives and hide in plain sight.
They need rules for their followers, no drugs, no police calls to the home, they need to become a good neighbor that steps in and helps others. They need to be the last ones suspected of being involved in anything but good works.
Selective of whom they recruit, keep out the glory seekers, the men under 25 years old, the woman who are too willing to shack up with the older men.
We have no worry as long as the ignorant folks stay ignorant, we can scoop them up like Soilent Green off the streets.
It is only those that are educated and in for the long haul, those with an actual commitment to a cause that we need fear. These groups are just another reason to be afraid of Clowns.
BTW, someone is making a fortune off them and they are to blind to see.
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Yet after hearing an interview with the militia leaders former fiance... She said that the guy refused to get a drivers license because he believed the government did not have a right to force him to.
Driving is a privilege NOT a right. Therefore the government can make laws and enforce the laws for you to have a driver license.
Now life is a right and IMHO the government can't make laws to require you to have health insurance or enforce laws to make you do so.
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I bet he is a lib troll, so transparent.
That was my second thought. The first one was, "What a douchebag."
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I banished the "douchebag" to the nether regions. Hasta la bye bye......
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I banished the "douchebag" to the nether regions. Hasta la bye bye......
Wow; that's gotta be some kind of record. 2 posts. Usually trolls at least TRY to infiltrate the group before they start ranting shit guaranteed to get them pitched into the woodchipper.
I guess the current crop of 8th graders (out on spring break, ya know) just aren't capable of filling the shoes (or whatever it is trolls wear) of those who've gone before them.
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DETROIT, May 4 (UPI) -- A federal judge in Detroit said she would delay until Wednesday her ruling to release Hutaree militia members accused of plotting to overthrow the government.
U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts said she would give government prosecutors until 5 p.m. Wednesday to tell her whether the solicitor general approved an appeal of her order and to provide more details of how the government would be harmed if they were released, The Detroit News reported Tuesday.
The nine Hutaree members were expected to have been released Tuesday morning. ...
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/05/04/Judge-delays-release-of-Hutaree-members/UPI-10841272981751/
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Another government case falling apart?
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It sounds like the govt has nothing.
Just like the "white man in his 40's"
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http://www.freep.com/article/20100503/NEWS06/100503031/1321/Judge-orders-release-of-9-Hutaree-militia
It would appear that that law enforcement jumped the gun a bit in arresting these people. Given the charges that were leveled against them initially (plotting to kill police, terrorism, etc.) and in light of recent events in NYC, releasing them seems to indicate that perhaps the evidence against them isn't so incriminating.
That, or we have a very irresponsible judge.
I'm thinking they got very little to nothing on these people other than being anti-government.
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The release was put on hold. The feds are appealing the bail.
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http://www.examiner.com/x-1417-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2010m5d19-Four-Hutaree-members-released-from-jail
excerpt
"Three of nine members of a Midwest militia accused of conspiring to overthrow the government were released from jail Tuesday," reports Ed White of the Associated Press
excerpt
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I go away for a bit and the truly weird show up.