The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on March 28, 2010, 12:10:07 PM
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Mar-28-10 01:02 PM
Original message
What the military is doing to the minds of our men and women in uniform Updated at 10:47 PM
Edited on Sun Mar-28-10 01:03 PM by Roland99
This is a snippet of a discussion between me and my daughter's friend, who is stationed in Iraq. Another member of the military over there with him interjected with her opinions (she quoted me...the part in italics):
"BUT, except for the Afghanistan theater, it's been 65 years since any member of the military actually defended this nation and its freedoms. Every war since has been to defend US interests and to keep feeding what I call The Beast (the military industrial complex). Korea, Vietnam (esp. Vietnam), Panama, Grenada, Iraq were all fought to further U.S. corporate interests. There is just no debate in that."
Those are YOUR words. You lost every ounce of respect I had for you when you said those words. The American Soldiers over there are defending THIS nation, they are defending it against terrorist groups that are trying to KILL people in our country or have you forgotten 9/11?
And just for the record, "now to cover what will be trillions of dollars in healthcare costs for the injured coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan (those injured in Iraq should never have been as we should never have been in there)" makes you sound like an insensitive asshole. Whether you believe in the war in Iraq or not, those soldiers deserve the best treatment out there and this comment makes it seem as though you are saying those who have fought and been injured or killed in Iraq did it for nothing, well guess what....you're wrong and if thats what you truly believe you can go to HELL. My nephew doesn't have a dad because of this war. It is a reality of life that my son could lose both of his parents because of this war, a war that ALL of us completely believe in what we are fighting for. While you sit at home and watch TV and enjoy starting your family life over. I hope you enjoy those freedoms you've been given while my child and his friends wonder when/if their parents are coming home this time.
I understand it's beneficial to have members of a military who do not question authority but, jesus h. christ, the indoctrination they're receiving...
It's been 7 years since the invasion and they still believe this?!?!!?
:(
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8037798
So terrorism is fake shit and global warming/ climate change is real.
:banghead:
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that just goes to show that Liberalism IS a mental disorder.........
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Bouncy. (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/Smilies/79477e3a.gif)
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Bouncy. (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53/ColonialMarine/Smilies/79477e3a.gif)
ha ha I love that bouncy pic.
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Dear DUmmy Roland99,
You are a ****-knuckle. That is all.
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I understand it's beneficial to have members of a military who do not question authority but, jesus h. christ, the indoctrination they're receiving...
Ummm. Bullshit. It's called a love of God and Country and the willingness to put on a uniform and defend it. It's called having been around the world and knowing just how friggin' lucky we are to have these freedoms. Most Americans don't realise just how good they have it. You can do and say pretty much whatever you want in the USA. Most people in the world don't have that luxury. And it's the blood of our forefathers on foreign soils fighting against tyranny that afforded us these precious rights.
Dickhead.
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Ummm. Bullshit. It's called a love of God and Country and the willingness to put on a uniform and defend it. It's called having been around the world and knowing just how friggin' lucky we are to have these freedoms. Most Americans don't realise just how good they have it. You can do and say pretty much whatever you want in the USA. Most people in the world don't have that luxury. And it's the blood of our forefathers on foreign soils fighting against tyranny that afforded us these precious rights.
Dickhead.
Hell, even countries that are as free as England, Canada and Australia have hate crime laws covering speech. Granted, I think our hate crime laws are a step in that direction.
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I understand it's beneficial to have members of a military who do not question authority but, jesus h. christ, the indoctrination they're receiving...
Yeah, because being taught to live core values of honor, respect and devotion to duty are so evil. To do the right thing in the face of censure. To put others before yourself, even if it puts you in danger. These things are verboten to DUmmies I guess.
****tard.
Semper Paratus and have a wonderful Coast Guard day. :bird:
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Ummm. Bullshit. It's called a love of God and Country and the willingness to put on a uniform and defend it. It's called having been around the world and knowing just how friggin' lucky we are to have these freedoms. Most Americans don't realise just how good they have it. You can do and say pretty much whatever you want in the USA. Most people in the world don't have that luxury. And it's the blood of our forefathers on foreign soils fighting against tyranny that afforded us these precious rights.
Dickhead.
+1
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I guess the freedom and prosperity we have here was won by Socially progressive enviromental socialist, huh. Dummies don't even recognize what and who they should be thankful too.
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Yeah, because being taught to live core values of honor, respect and devotion to duty are so evil. To do the right thing in the face of censure. To put others before yourself, even if it puts you in danger. These things are verboten to DUmmies I guess.
****tard.
Semper Paratus and have a wonderful Coast Guard day. :bird:
Agreed Coastie. I'll be the first to admit that I can make an ass of myself sometimes. But when I do I stand up and admit it and apologise. It's called Honor and a certain degree of humility. Something DUmmies seem to lack.
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Stupid is thick with this DUmmie.
It's not indoctrination...it's called being a part of something bigger than yourself.
It's called giving back to a country that allows us to have the freedoms we enjoy.
That last one in particular is foreign to DUmmies who think they deserve everything for nothing.
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It's been 7 years since the invasion and they still believe this?!?!!?
Maybe it's because they're actually there, DUmbass, and know the score. Maybe they're privy to information you don't have, because you get all your information from some asshole Leftist blog.
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Well, lookee here. Another Army "Ranger":
David West (2 posts) Sun Mar-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. First post here, figured I'd chime in on this topic.
Edited on Sun Mar-28-10 02:18 PM by David West
I've been kind of lurking around here for a while and following some of the discussions to sort of get a perspective on what the people around here think (lets just say I'm not in this forums typical demographic. In fact many of you would probably consider me a right-wing nut job ) and I finally decided it was time for me to chime in on this topic.
I'm an Army Ranger. I enlisted almost 2 years ago because I thought the wars we were fighting were just and good and that I'd be going overseas not only to protect Americans but to liberate the oppressed peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan. I became a "forward observer" because I wanted a combat MOS that would put me right in the thick of things. Last summer I deployed to Mosul, Iraq for 4 months, and while (thankfully) it was a very uneventful deployment, it was a pretty eye-opening experience for me.
Needless to say, I'm now going through the process of seeking classification as a conscientious objector because I realized that all the good reasons I thought we had to be over there are lies. I realized I could no longer take part in a war that was based on lies ad was killing more innocent people than anything. Long story short I felt that the mind-sets of my fellow soldiers and the policies of the Army were pretty horrifying and decided I could no longer serve with or under them if that's how they felt.
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David West (2 posts) Sun Mar-28-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I agree with the OP
Honestly, I agree more with OP. There's some good people in the military, no doubt, but by and large there seems to be a lot of institutional brainwashing going on. Sadly, quite a few of the really upstanding people I've met are blinded by a brand of patriotism that depicts God as bleeding red, white, and blue (and as a registered Republican). My old platoon sergeant, who never swears, doesn't drink, and has a son named "Christian Freedom" springs to mind. He's a great guy, don't get me wrong. A man of great character and integrity, it just seems like he's blinded by lies that allow him to be misused by corrupt bureaucrats, and I think that's really sad. A lot of the other personnel seem to either fall into a couple distinct camps. A disturbing number of people don't like the government, think the wars are bogus or should have ended long ago, and see straight through all the BS we do, but they just roll with it. They don't really care; they're just here to finish their contract and get out. Some people fall more into the "alpha-dog" category and enlisted just to kill people. They tend to think that the more they puff up their chest, the better they'll get their point across and working harder instead of smarter makes them more of a man. The scariest type of people, though, is probably the power-hungry type. Most career military types seem to either be of this mold or are like my old platoon sergeant and are basically noble but a little misguided. The power hungry types are in everything for themselves and think they are better than other people. My company commander is a prime example of this mind set. The guy thinks he is God's gift to humanity, and probably in a scarily literal way.
This is maybe a bit unfair a claim to make as most of my time in the military has been spent around Rangers, who are typically more bloodthirsty than the regular Army, but very few soldiers actually care about what they are doing, they just blindly follow orders and want to kill people. They have no respect whatsoever for the people they are ostensibly "protecting," be they Iraqis, Afghanis, or even just American Civilians. Alot of military personnel have this weird hatred for civilians that I can't quite explain and I could certainly never justify. They also have zero respect for women because, in the words of my squad leader, "what else are women for but to lust after?"
Everyone that I worked with seemed shocked when they found out that I wouldn't call for fire to save one of them if it meant killing dozens of civilians (this was all discussed theoretically, it never even came close to happening while I was over there). I told them that, as willing combatants, it was our job to PROTECT innocent people, and that EVERY precaution should be taken to avoid harming them even if it puts us in more danger. As soon as I'd make a claim like that people would start chiming in and asking me stuff like, "have you seen the way these people live? They're like animals! How could you care about them more than us?" I even had people accuse me, through truly convoluted feats of logic, that I must not love anyone because I'd rather let my best friend die than kill innocent people that I don't know. My squad leader, who is a regular old piece of work, literally told me that, "100 of them aren't worth one of us!" Mind you, he was talking about INNOCENT people including women and children, not just terrorists or insurgents.
I hate to say it, because it usually seems like people just pull it out of nowhere and misapply the term, but the opinions espoused by these people seem genuinely racist. Their base assumption seems to be that brown people = terrorists, or at least that Muslims = terrorists. My company commander would often spout gems like, "I hope we get re-called this weekend and surged to Somalia so we can kill all the stupid ****ing Muslims!" and, "We'll get our revenge when we go to Afghanistan and start putting Muslims to bed!" It's disgusting, and to top it all off the guy claims to be a Christian, and then (and he's not alone in this) acts like I'm somehow not a Christian or at least in err because I don't see this as some kind of holy crusade.
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David West (2 posts) Sun Mar-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. First post here, figured I'd chime in on this topic.
Edited on Sun Mar-28-10 02:18 PM by David West
I've been kind of lurking around here for a while and following some of the discussions to sort of get a perspective on what the people around here think (lets just say I'm not in this forums typical demographic. In fact many of you would probably consider me a right-wing nut job ) and I finally decided it was time for me to chime in on this topic.
I'm an Army Ranger. I enlisted almost 2 years ago because I thought the wars we were fighting were just and good and that I'd be going overseas not only to protect Americans but to liberate the oppressed peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan. I became a "forward observer" because I wanted a combat MOS that would put me right in the thick of things. Last summer I deployed to Mosul, Iraq for 4 months, and while (thankfully) it was a very uneventful deployment, it was a pretty eye-opening experience for me.
Needless to say, I'm now going through the process of seeking classification as a conscientious objector because I realized that all the good reasons I thought we had to be over there are lies. I realized I could no longer take part in a war that was based on lies ad was killing more innocent people than anything. Long story short I felt that the mind-sets of my fellow soldiers and the policies of the Army were pretty horrifying and decided I could no longer serve with or under them if that's how they felt.
I doubt you even are a park ranger much less an Army Ranger. You may drive a Ford Ranger though.
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My old platoon sergeant, who never swears, doesn't drink,
Fake. Show us your DD 214.
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Eye-opening? How's this for eye-opening, stud...dropping the shower while you're in the employ of the Kansas Gravel Company. That could get REALLY eye-opening.
I call BS. And if this guy IS for real, he'd be the first (and probably ONLY) Ranger I ever heard speak in such a manner.
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More lies then average, but still lies.
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I doubt you even are a park ranger much less an Army Ranger. You may drive a Ford Ranger though.
David West? DUmbass...you know with a phone call I can do a tab check at Fort Benning?
They love busting fake Rangers.
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David West? DUmbass...you know with a phone call I can do a tab check at Fort Benning?
They love busting fake Rangers.
Busting fakes isn't exactly like watching table tennis around here - or at TAH, for that matter - either. :cheers1:
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Well, lookee here. Another Army "Ranger":
A forward observer is 13F, and they are trained at Fort Sill, OK. An enlisted field artillery private has almost no chance in hell at getting a Ranger School slot.
Second, the Army doesn't do four month tours. That's the Air Force.
Now, if he was an enlisted forward air controller in the air force he might have done a four month tour- however, they have an even less chance at getting a Ranger slot than a DUmbassed Gun Bunny.
The rest of his story is just ****ing stupid and is more likely to come from watching war movies than from real life.
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Whoops--amazing what happens when bullshit stories encounter people who know they're bullshit.
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That dumbass doesn't know the power of a pissed off Ranger but it sure would be funny to watch him try and run away from one
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Whoops--amazing what happens when bullshit stories encounter people who know they're bullshit.
Yes. I'm not an expert but I can smell BS from 2 clicks.
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he may be ranger school qualified, but they haven't deployed the ranger battalions to mosul for "uneventful deployments" AFAIK. dutch would know more, i bet.
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Eye-opening? How's this for eye-opening, stud...dropping the shower while you're in the employ of the Kansas Gravel Company. That could get REALLY eye-opening.
I call BS. And if this guy IS for real, he'd be the first (and probably ONLY) Ranger I ever heard speak in such a manner.
He is a lying sack of shit.
There is ZERO man that would ever act like that then post about it on the DUmp.
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David West? DUmbass...you know with a phone call I can do a tab check at Fort Benning?
They love busting fake Rangers.
I checked the Global. Only two by the name of "David West" that would be the rank this assclown would be after two years in (one is SPC and the other is E-5). The closest either one of them is to a Ranger Bat is Ft. Gordon.
The only "David West" I could find that might be a 13 Fox is an E-6 at Ft. Sill.
The only other one is a Recruiter down in Ocala.
This idiot is as fake as General Ballduster.
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He is a lying sack of shit.
There is ZERO man that would ever act like that then post about it on the DUmp.
There was one. A certain Major with the 4th ID who was married to LynnTheDem. Made the mistake of posting some stuff on her screen name...and made sure everyone knew it was him.
Don't think it ended well for him...I know for a fact it didn't end well for her.
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Ranger(?) David West is a work of art.....he belongs in a jar of piss.
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I checked the Global. Only two by the name of "David West" that would be the rank this assclown would be after two years in (one is SPC and the other is E-5). The closest either one of them is to a Ranger Bat is Ft. Gordon.
The only "David West" I could find that might be a 13 Fox is an E-6 at Ft. Sill.
The only other one is a Recruiter down in Ocala.
This idiot is as fake as General Ballduster.
Maybe we can get him to post his awards, so he can share a cell with General Ballduster. :evillaugh:
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I checked the Global. Only two by the name of "David West" that would be the rank this assclown would be after two years in (one is SPC and the other is E-5). The closest either one of them is to a Ranger Bat is Ft. Gordon.
The only "David West" I could find that might be a 13 Fox is an E-6 at Ft. Sill.
The only other one is a Recruiter down in Ocala.
This idiot is as fake as General Ballduster.
David West
4306 Earline Ave
Columbus, Georgia 31904
Basic Info
Full Name: David K. West
Service: Army
Army Basic Branch: 13
Organization: 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment
Account Type: Active Army
Contact Info
Phone: (541)840-****
Email: david.k.west**********
Address: Medford, Oregon 97501
Maybe not so fake.
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You know it never seems to occur to these idiots that these values might be one of the reasons they joined and not a mindset they developed after joining. Seems to me a desire to "protect and defend" is a pretty good reason for enlisting.
Cindie
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I checked the Global. Only two by the name of "David West" that would be the rank this assclown would be after two years in (one is SPC and the other is E-5). The closest either one of them is to a Ranger Bat is Ft. Gordon.
The only "David West" I could find that might be a 13 Fox is an E-6 at Ft. Sill.
The only other one is a Recruiter down in Ocala.
This idiot is as fake as General Ballduster.
If he had any balls they just got crushed.LOL.
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someone has tipped off "This Aint Hell."
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David West
4306 Earline Ave
Columbus, Georgia 31904
Basic Info
Full Name: David K. West
Service: Army
Army Basic Branch: 13
Organization: 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment
Account Type: Active Army
Contact Info
Phone: (541)840-****
Email: david.k.west**********
Address: Medford, Oregon 97501
Maybe not so fake.
Perhaps his Battalion CSM needs to be made aware of the fact he has a window licking mouth breather among his ranks.
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-28-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thanks. You have an interesting perspective that I lack.
Reading your post makes me question the value of an all-volunteer military.
David West (4 posts) Sun Mar-28-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Would you rather conscription?
If it makes you question the value of an all-volunteer Army, what would you rather have? Conscription? Conscription is a moral abomination. It's slavery pure and simple. Am I correct in assuming that you would rather a conscripted Army so that there is a broader representation of mindsets within the military?
"Never compromise, not even in the face of Armageddon." - Rorschach
lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Sun Mar-28-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I've always been opposed to the draft, even when I was young enough that it was a personal issue.
Edited on Sun Mar-28-10 08:02 PM by lumberjack_jeff
That said, the modern military is more likely to be composed of people attracted to the allure of shooting people than a conscripted one would be.
"Military preparedness" is probably enhanced by a force composed of people who believe the life of one soldier is greater than 100 civilians, but I'm not sure that is the only consideration.
I don't see it as unambiguously as I once did. Remember that WW2 was won by conscripts.
David West (4 posts) Sun Mar-28-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I could never agree to a draft.
What if, instead of having a huge, multi-trillion dollar military that anyone who felt the need to kill someone could go and join, our federal military was small or even non-existent? What if we just didn't have a standing Army, and instead relied on the reserves, National Guards, and militias for defense? They could still be rallied in time of legitimate war if a larger, more unified force is ever called for. Wouldn't that be preferable to a draft?
I can simply never view a draft as moral. I take an individualistic view of humanity as opposed to a collectivist view. The voices of many wanting someone to fight do NOT trump the right of an individual to just live out his life the way he sees fit. I think war can only be moral when people willingly stepping forward to defend themselves or other people from a real and immediate threat (ie no "preemptive war" to stop a theoretical future threat). A draft automatically precludes that. I reckon that World War II could have been won without a draft and that more people would have voluntarily enlisted had there not been a draft going on.
Smells like a Ronulan
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Smells like a Ronulan
Smells like someone who needs to DX their mouth...as well as being a potential Ronobot.
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America kills for coporate interests/shits-'n-giggles while communists, jihadists, and other despots merely respect the wishes of native peoples to be enslaved and murdered. Every Army Ranger knows that. :whatever:
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America kills for coporate interests/shits-'n-giggles while communists, jihadists, and other despots merely respect the wishes of native peoples to be enslaved and murdered. Every Army Ranger knows that. :whatever:
of course, it's part of the school, right dutch? that's jungle phase, isn't it?
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of course, it's part of the school, right dutch? that's jungle phase, isn't it?
Extra Credit.
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Perhaps his Battalion CSM needs to be made aware of the fact he has a window licking mouth breather among his ranks.
Yes, perhaps he does.
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So who's dropping the dime?
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So who's dropping the dime?
Already done.
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What if we just didn't have a standing Army, and instead relied on the reserves, National Guards, and militias for defense?
And thanks to Clinton, we got exactly that. Not the best situation, IMHO.
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Militias? What militias. Are the Dummies that stupid? I think there might be four or five states that have an actual state militia and they are for the states use not national defense.
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Ok, I joined here just because it popped up when I googled this "David West" fella, after seeing him and his bullshit with John Bolton
www.liveleak.com/view?v=e0a_1330145602
Now he goes out of his way to describe some story about a 13 year old with a SKS who shoots a Ranger Cpl.
Well, this is the same fella in a RonBot movie where he ....wait for it....teaches a 13 year old to shoot a SKS at UN Peacekeepers, keeps C4 in the back of his Jeep to blow up locked gates into forests, has a bunch of like minded youthful Militia buddies who show up with Black Guns when he summons them, and ambushes some fantasy UN force in the US that is composed of....US Military in Blue Helmets. Did I mention he has big stickers on the doors of his Jeep that say "Ron paul Revolution"?
Here's a clip. I doubt this will be appearing in movie theaters anytime soon. It does have some pretty good camera work and lighting though. Somebody put up some money to make it, obviously, and to hire somebody who know cinematography.
He obviously is mixing his fantasy with reality here.
air
www.liveleak.com/view?v=da5_1330025724
So this fella has time to make movies in addition to his active duty Ranger Service, but doesn't seem to have the time to meet US military grooming standards and get a regulation haircut.
He's another David Kokesh, and probably got kicked out for smoking dope like that guy who got hit in the back of the head by a brick at that Occupy protest.
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I don't know if the links work, but if you go to Liveleak.com search "John Bolton insults" you will find the confrontation at the interview with Stossel, and seach "One Man's Terrorist" and you will see his small scene debut as a Domestic Terrorist, or Freedom Fighter, or whatever he fancies himself.
I hope somebody does a Freedom of Information act search on him and finds out his real MOS's, deployments, ranks, and awards and decorations.
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I did some info hunting on this Davis West, and he enlisted in the Army, went to school to be a Forward Observer (a job any decent Combat Arms E-4 can do), went to jump school and Ranger Indoctrination (but not Ranger School). He claims a 4 month "tour" in Iraq, and decided he wanted to become a "Contientious Objector" who was willing to take up arms against the US Government for interfering in his "Rights", but not against "Enemies" of our Country like Islamic Jihadists. So after a year of being a "casual" getting processed through the system, the Army finally declared him unfit for Military Service and discharged him for the good of the service. He does not have a "Honorable Discharge". Half his 2 years in the military was getting processed out and being psychiatrically evaluated as psychologically unfit to wear a Uniform in the Service of this Country. He did not by any stretch meet his Military Enlistment Obligation. He is a narcissistic anti-social Sociopath, and easily capable of being this generation's Tim McVeigh.
He is a staunch RonBot and obviously has devoted way to much time interpreting "The Turner Diaries".
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I spent 22 years with the USMC, between retirement and disability, I get approx $3k per month.
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David West? DUmbass...you know with a phone call I can do a tab check at Fort Benning?
They love busting fake Rangers.
You've heard that O'bummer's dept of justice is arguing that it's free speech to fake bein' a soldier, right?
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You've heard that O'bummer's dept of justice is arguing that it's free speech to fake bein' a soldier, right?
As I recall a Federal Judge found the "Stolen Valor Act" as passed by Congress ans signed by the President to be "Unconstitutional", so anybody can wear a uniform in public, lie about military service, and wear and claim medals they never earned or received.
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Maybe it's because they're actually there, DUmbass, and know the score. Maybe they're privy to information you don't have, because you get all your information from some asshole Leftist blog.
That is pretty much it in a nutshell.
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As I recall a Federal Judge found the "Stolen Valor Act" as passed by Congress ans signed by the President to be "Unconstitutional", so anybody can wear a uniform in public, lie about military service, and wear and claim medals they never earned or received.
For the benefit of one Senator John F'n Kerry (who served in Vietnam).
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For the benefit of one Senator John F'n Kerry (who served in Vietnam).
When you are a illegitimate son of one of the Kennedy boys you can buy off anybody, including corrupt Navy commanding officers. Kerry got 2 Purple Hearts for wounds he inflicted on himself (one with frag shrapnel and another with a HE 203 round, neither while under enemy fire) and the third by scratching himself on something on his boat. He got a medal for shooting a unarmed VC shot through both legs already, after the action was over, and something else for doing something that another boat did after he had already evacuated himself off to get his scratch treated by a Doctor. He got his Silver Star like the day after the supposed action, without any investigation always resulting from a recommendation for that high a award.
When he got back to ConUS (nobody was sorry to see him gone in Vietnam) he went trolling the Naval Hospitals in full Admiral's Aide rig trying to recruit wounded for his VVAW. No shit. While in full rig in Naval Hospitals.
The Officer who awarded him his Silver Star and was his staunch defender himself had his medals withdrawn.
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I'll have to check into it but I'm pretty certain that the Ranger Battalions do not have artillery assets so why would they need foward observers when every NCO and officer gets trained to do call for fire?
Regular infantry units get FO's attatched to them along with medics and other assets. The Rangers are mostly Infantry but I have never heard of them having other MOS in addition to that since they are no bigger then battalion size units. So I'm calling BS on David West as I see all of you others have too.
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I'll have to check into it but I'm pretty certain that the Ranger Battalions do not have artillery assets so why would they need foward observers when every NCO and officer gets trained to do call for fire?
Regular infantry units get FO's attatched to them along with medics and other assets. The Rangers are mostly Infantry but I have never heard of them having other MOS in addition to that since they are no bigger then battalion size units. So I'm calling BS on David West as I see all of you others have too.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was a MOSfor it, butreally I don't see the need. We had FACs (pilots) and Naval Gunfire laisons, butany Cpl and many almost all LCpls in the marine Infantry could call and adjustat leastarty and mortars. Because Air and NG used different radios and freqs usually getting them involved relaying through a FAC NGL, or the Fire Support Coordination Center that has them would serve as intermediary and relay the mission. They listen in on most FS missions, or are supposed to, and can take over and redirect say, aircraft on station, to a lucrative target. You could call for mortars and end up finding youself recieving helo Gunships or fast movers, or heavy arty.
It was a FSCCthat refused fire for that event that dakotaMeyer got the MOH for. They also can abort misssions like they did that day. They are supposed to help, but with the nonsense ROEs that happened.
But if you go through RIP and getassigned to a ranger unit you are a ranger. Ranger School is for NCOs now pretty much.
But this Westguywent through bootand MOS training, Jump School, Rip, and did 4 months in Iraq. Then spent his second year getting himself discharged for his radical "Libertarian" attitude. They saw another Tim McVeigh in this guy, for sure.
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Is a forward observer a feeder into the Rangers? Last I checked, there were very limited options, 11B, combat medic, 25U (former 31U), I think 25C (former 31C), and maybe a few others.
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Is a forward observer a feeder into the Rangers? Last I checked, there were very limited options, 11B, combat medic, 25U (former 31U), I think 25C (former 31C), and maybe a few others.
I looked up 13F and it's not a MOS for dummies. The training is pretty complete and a graduate can do anything from maintain and operate and communicate with the assigned radios and wire comm to setting up FS plans. It's not a job that you wotk on the guns in. It would traiin people to work in a FSCC. I could see why a Ranger Bn would have some, especailly in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think their MOS would be especially useful on patrol though. Better they stay in a commo bunker to be useful, and not kicking in doors. It seems to me to likely be a Bn HQ Co. or even a Reg HQ assignment, and not one suitable for a Grunt Ranger Platoon or Company.
Still, the guy spent a year in the Army, 4 months of that in iraq, and then 14 months trying to get a discharge because he is comfortable shooting USMilitary and Police for violating "our Constitutional Rights" but not shooting Iraqis of Afghans or any other Islamists because we deserve it for being "over there".
If you watch his internet movie (3 parts) on Youtube or Liveleak, it's called "One Man's Terrorist", he obviiously has a chip about US military, US laws involving Marijuaning and guns, and is praying for a "Ron Paul Revolution" involving shootouts. He's nuts. He can talk about his "2 years with the Rangers (actually 2 years in the Army total) but he isn't a honorably discharged Vet. And he didn't get out as a C.O. I am sure he got put out as mentally unfit with a damning Psych diagnosis of a dangerous Personality disorder.
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I'll have to check into it but I'm pretty certain that the Ranger Battalions do not have artillery assets so why would they need foward observers when every NCO and officer gets trained to do call for fire?
Regular infantry units get FO's attatched to them along with medics and other assets. The Rangers are mostly Infantry but I have never heard of them having other MOS in addition to that since they are no bigger then battalion size units. So I'm calling BS on David West as I see all of you others have too.
ranger battalions have mortar assets and usually have designated artillery for support- BUT, not ranger artillery.
However- anyone can go to Ranger School. Not everyone gets to serve in the Batts.
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I looked up 13F and it's not a MOS for dummies. The training is pretty complete and a graduate can do anything from maintain and operate and communicate with the assigned radios and wire comm to setting up FS plans. It's not a job that you wotk on the guns in. It would traiin people to work in a FSCC. I could see why a Ranger Bn would have some, especailly in Iraq or Afghanistan. I don't think their MOS would be especially useful on patrol though. Better they stay in a commo bunker to be useful, and not kicking in doors. It seems to me to likely be a Bn HQ Co. or even a Reg HQ assignment, and not one suitable for a Grunt Ranger Platoon or Company.
If I may:
I was designated 13F but never took the school as I IST'ed to Colorado.
I was with HHC/1/53 IN BN which had a dedicated Fire Support section. I spent my days with the very under-manned Scout section with 2 to 3 FO's attached to each platoon. Each Scout E-5 and above was Ranger tabbed by papal decree. One FO usually went with each squad. When the Scouts would near a point they wanted to obeserve more closely they would assume a triangular, barrels-out formation and go to ground. The SL and I would then creep through the swamp and brush as 2 creep more quietly than 10+. The reason it was me and the SL going was based on the idea that if it was just something to observe his MOS would be the default but if it was worth killing then it was my lane. Even then we were both making notes WRT our respective sciences.
Granted, my experience is limited in both time and scope. I was never the end-all, be-all of 13Foxies but I loved the job I did. I would have kept the MOS except COARNG didn't have anything comparable. They were strictly MLRS when I got out here and for a 13F that means being stuck behind a computer deciphering for the 13Ps what another 13F just said. It's miserable work and I went back to being a 68W (although it was 91A when I originally enlisted) where I remain to this day.
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The SL and I would then creep through the swamp and brush as 2 creep more quietly than 10+.
That'sfor sure. When I was a Scout/Sniper we trained and operated in two man teams. Wth out skills we could go anywhere. It was amazing. I think back now and I scare myself. The team leader had a M16, PRC 77, binos and spotting scope and a starlight and eventually NVGs. The Sniper carried a M40A1. We both had pistols. We had maps and compass and knew had to use them better than any officer. We had shackle sheets for coding too, if anybody remembers them. t saved us the trouble of carring a krypto box attached to the radio that was heavier then the PRC 77.I think it was a KY-38 or something. Nobody ever knew where we were, or when we passed by of through. We weren't required to wear helmets or B/A either.
The rest of STA was smart grunts who operated NODs and Ground Survellence Radars. There were about half a dozen guys in each section.There were 8 Scout/Snipers (4 team) on the T/O.
But Iraq and Afghanistan changed things. Now they have a bunch of non-MOS guys who hopefully get 4 weeks of training in the Scout/Sniper Platoon. I guess they provide additional firepower and security for the Scout/Sniper Teams. And the Sniper in the team carries a M16 in addition to his M40,which is usually in a drag bag on his back. So you got a half dozen guys walking around now, at least. Big trade off in stealth during movement. There were a couple bad events in Iraq that forced this. One Scout/Sniper team with security got ambushed moving i the open sand at night and got shot up, and another 4 man team kept leaving a place at night and going back and shooting from it in the morning for several days in a row. 2 team together and all were killed and weapons and eqiupment stolen (the Sniper Rifles were recovered much later in the dead hands of Jubas). Not too much independent action for the S/S teams anymore. I am sure there are occasions, but 2 men alone jsut is considered too risky unless they are willing to kill anybody, including a sheard kid, who might stumble on them. That has happened to SEALs and SAS and they didn't, and got pretty much wiped out when the bastards ran off and dropped the dime. But what are you gonna do? Knife kids?
Hopefully in the future if we ever fight in jungle or forest or even savanna they will go back to the 2 man MOS only teams and leave the other guys with the S-2.
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If this guy is real then he should know better! It's simply infuriating!
Cindie
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If this guy is real then he should know better! It's simply infuriating!
Cindie
No, the guy is a hardcore RonBot. he may very well have enlisted with the intention of forcing them to put him out, but being able to confront people like John Bolton and others by saying "I was a Ranger for 2 years and deployed to Iraq.
If you consider he was being processed for discharge for 14 months, and add Boot, MOS, Jump, and RIP training, as well as leave and travel and processing, he wasn't in the Ranger unit actually as a deployable very long at all. Just long enough to say "I was a Ranger".
He doesn't mention he's a shitcanned ranger with a shitcanned discharge though.