The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Thor on March 12, 2010, 11:15:37 AM
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Mexican helicopter over Texas sparks drug war concerns
By LYNN BREZOSKY and GARY MARTIN
SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS-NEWS
March 11, 2010, 9:10PM
BROWNSVILLE — The Zapata County sheriff Thursday was questioning why a Mexican military helicopter was hovering over homes on the Texas side of the Rio Grande.
It was one of the more jarring incidents of the fourth week of border tensions sparked by drug killings — and rumors of drug killings — in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas.
Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said he'd reviewed photos of the chopper flown by armed personnel Tuesday over a residential area known as Falcon Heights-Falcon Village near the binational Falcon Lake, just south of the Starr-Zapata county line. He said the helicopter appeared to have the insignia of the Mexican navy.
“It's always been said that the Mexican military does in fact ... that there have been incursions,†Gonzalez said. “But this is not New Mexico or Arizona. Here we've got a river, there's a boundary line. And then of course having Falcon Lake, Falcon Dam, it's a lot wider. It's not just a trickle of a river, it's an actual dam. You know where the boundary's at.â€
The sighting came amid ongoing fighting between the Gulf Cartel and its former enforcers, Los Zetas. The mounting death toll and crisis of fear in cities opposite the Texas border have drawn global attention, as has a news blackout in affected cities with the kidnappings of eight Mexican journalists, at least one of whom was killed.
As violence continued Thursday with a highway shootout in the state of Tamaulipas, a Senate subcommittee in Washington heard testimony that drug cartels are trying to infiltrate U.S. agencies along the border, with corruption cases among Homeland Security personnel on the rise.
In the past two years, there have been 400 public corruption cases involving federal, state and local law enforcement agents originating from the Southwest border region, Kevin Perkins, FBI assistant director for criminal investigations, told the Senate Homeland Security subcommittee on preparedness.
In addition to the highway battle, news from Tamaulipas on Thursday included a 25-year-old man found dead on a roadside in Miguel Alemán. On Wednesday, three people died in two gunbattles in Reynosa.
Four other deaths have been reported since Saturday in the cities of Mier, Camargo and Miguel Alemán.
The Mexican government's role in combating the violence remained unclear. The army presence in some cities appeared sporadic, and the navy has led operations including the December takeout of kingpin Arturo Beltran Leyva in Mexico City.
Gonzalez, the Zapata sheriff, said he couldn't confirm reports that the helicopter was scoping the home of a drug criminal. He said the incursion about a mile over the border occurred over a neighborhood populated by many U.S. Customs officers who work at area border crossings — and they knew what they were seeing.
“My understanding is the U.S. military were informed,†he said. “I don't know what action was taken, if any.â€
lbrezosky@express-news.net
Crossing into US airspace without authorization seems to me as if it would be an act of war. Most countries would have shot this helicopter and it's pilot down or at least escorted it to the nearest landing field. I wonder where was the Air Force, Border Patrol, or other Government agencies and why weren't they available or able to respond??
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Foreign (military?) aircraft hovering over Texas homes and nobody shot at it??
I am very disappointed.
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Foreign (military?) aircraft hovering over Texas homes and nobody shot at it??
I am very disappointed.
That's what I was thinking. Would it be legal to fire at a military aircraft from another country? They were invading, weren't they?
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I believe this is going to get worse before/if it gets better.
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I believe this is going to get worse before/if it gets better.
freeper Travis McGee, Matt Bracken, wrote a trilogy the last of which was about The "Reconquista".
http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/
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I wonder where was the Air Force, Border Patrol, or other Government agencies and why weren't they available or able to respond??
They've been told to "help" our southern "friends".
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Mexico's citizens are here illegally, so why not let their military enter the country illegally, too? What exactly is the difference?
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Mexico's citizens are here illegally, so why not let their military enter the country illegally, too? What exactly is the difference?
The guns they bring back and forth across the border are generally bigger?
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The guns they bring back and forth across the border are generally bigger?
Ha! :cheersmate:
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Border Security ?
What Border security ... "we don't needs no steenking border security"...
:banghead:
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Border Security ?
What Border security ... "we don't needs no steenking border security"...
:banghead:
In fact, we don't GOT no steekeen border security.... :thatsright:
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Why would we expect our Border Patrol officers to shoot at anything?
The last time 2 of them did that in the line of duty, they got sent to prison.
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All the more reason that the 2nd amendment needs to be held up. If the cops can't or won't do something then it is up to us to do it. I'd have done more then taken one shot at those MoFos for crossing the border armed to the teeth.
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All the more reason that the 2nd amendment needs to be held up. If the cops can't or won't do something then it is up to us to do it. I'd have done more then taken one shot at those MoFos for crossing the border armed to the teeth.
It's too bad we don't have an 'unconfirmed' Bell 222 conversion roaming the skies down there. I'd imagine that the incursions would stop after the first 3-4 of their choppers went down just as soon as they were clear of a populated area. :evillaugh:
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It's too bad we don't have an 'unconfirmed' Bell 222 conversion roaming the skies down there. I'd imagine that the incursions would stop after the first 3-4 of their choppers went down just as soon as they were clear of a populated area. :evillaugh:
Lets see .
5 million for the Bell 222
Already have a pilot wth over 5K in flight hours
Need guns,Lots of guns.
Now all I need is the 6 winning powerball numbers and that 200 Million is mune.
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Now all I need is the 6 winning powerball numbers and that 200 Million is mune.
If I win I see Panama and a lot of girls in my future.
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It's too bad we don't have an 'unconfirmed' Bell 222 conversion roaming the skies down there. I'd imagine that the incursions would stop after the first 3-4 of their choppers went down just as soon as they were clear of a populated area. :evillaugh:
Shame no enterprising citizen didn't take the opportunity to test out the accuracy on their barretts rifle.
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A 22 rifle with proper shot placement can take down just about any aircraft, especially a helicopter. ;)
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A 22 rifle with proper shot placement can take down just about any aircraft, especially a helicopter. ;)
Just how much trouble could one get into in Texas if one put a well-placed round through the turbines of a foreign-flagged chopper hovering over one's neighborhood?
doc
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Just how much trouble could one get into in Texas if one put a well-placed round through the turbines of a foreign-flagged chopper hovering over one's neighborhood?
doc
Dang, to be accused of trying to spark a war by the authorities. heh.
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Just how much trouble could one get into in Texas if one put a well-placed round through the turbines of a foreign-flagged chopper hovering over one's neighborhood?
doc
Well, basically if anyone dies it's a capital murder charge in Federal court. On a given day you have no idea whether a particular aircraft that might look like this one is stolen, intruding over the border, part of a movie, or just some owner's idea of a cool paint job, so shooting at one is a bad idea on general principles. Even if you see one and it turns out to really be a Mexican government bird, it would have to be engaged in hostile action, i.e. shooting at you, before you would have any legal defense for shooting at it.
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globalfirepower.com says Mexico's military has 273 helicopters, as of 2007.
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Well, basically if anyone dies it's a capital murder charge in Federal court. On a given day you have no idea whether a particular aircraft that might look like this one is stolen, intruding over the border, part of a movie, or just some owner's idea of a cool paint job, so shooting at one is a bad idea on general principles. Even if you see one and it turns out to really be a Mexican government bird, it would have to be engaged in hostile action, i.e. shooting at you, before you would have any legal defense for shooting at it.
Therefore assuming that it is....
A. Truly foreign.....and
B. An unauthorized incursion.....
No "affirmative defense"?
doc
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(http://www.valleycentral.com/uploadedimages/kgbt/news/Stories/MexicanHelicopter4.jpg)
Pics of the incursion!
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Don't worry. If it gets shot down they already ordered 6 replacements ($1.1b)
They look like this:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_EC725_Cougar_lg.jpg
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(http://www.valleycentral.com/uploadedimages/kgbt/news/Stories/MexicanHelicopter4.jpg)
Pics of the incursion!
Mexico has Mi-17's?
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Mexico has Mi-17's?
That is what it looks like to me. But they ordered 6 EC725 (Mi-35) Cougars last year, so I guess they are slowly getting more modern.
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Mexico has Mi-17's?
A google search says yes. Their Navy has some too, I saw a pic but it wouldn't let me post it.
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Looking around on Google I have seen a few sites (probably old) saying you can buy an OH-6 "Little Bird" or "Loach" for a quarter million to half million.
That would be interesting.
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Therefore assuming that it is....
A. Truly foreign.....and
B. An unauthorized incursion.....
No "affirmative defense"?
doc
Correct; 'Foreign' does not automatically equal 'Hostile,' without a state of war or demonstration of current hostile intent, there is no excuse for private citizens trying to fire it up.
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Correct; 'Foreign' does not automatically equal 'Hostile,' without a state of war or demonstration of current hostile intent, there is no excuse for private citizens trying to fire it up.
In Texas, however......I would suggest two words....
"jury nullification"....
doc
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...Or 'Straight to the needle, do not pass Go,' (Except in Spanish, Spanglish, or Ebonics), depending on the jury pool where the Feds decide to try the shooter.
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The saving grace for me is by the time I get out my good rifle, load it and get outside, any aircraft should be long gone. However, were they within 100 yards, that might change the scenario a bit.
The fact is, if one takes out the engine(s), (which it would be very difficult were there two engines), a helicopter CAN auto-rotate to the ground. Given a decent pilot, there should be NO deaths.
I probably would be on the phone with the Sheriff until I received some sort of hostile intent.
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I probably would be on the phone with the Sheriff until I received some sort of hostile intent.
This copter apparently hovered for a little while.
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...Or 'Straight to the needle, do not pass Go,' (Except in Spanish, Spanglish, or Ebonics), depending on the jury pool where the Feds decide to try the shooter.
Although a chopper crash in my swimming pool might make things a bit more complex, the "Three S's" come to mind.....and I have access to a backhoe..... :-)
Of further note, according to US aviation law, intentional unapproved flight within 1000 feet of any occupied dwelling (other than an airport) is verboten, and can result in severe penalties......including imprisonment.....
Kind of a shame what our national sovereignty has degraded to........in a just world, shooting down the bastards should result in, at the very least salvage rights, and at most, a substantial reward......
doc
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The saving grace for me is by the time I get out my good rifle, load it and get outside, any aircraft should be long gone. However, were they within 100 yards, that might change the scenario a bit.
The fact is, if one takes out the engine(s), (which it would be very difficult were there two engines), a helicopter CAN auto-rotate to the ground. Given a decent pilot, there should be NO deaths.
I probably would be on the phone with the Sheriff until I received some sort of hostile intent.
Taking out 1 engine would be good enough. It may not bring them down but I'd bet dollars to tacos it'd get their asses back across the border toot-sweet!
:-)
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The saving grace for me is by the time I get out my good rifle, load it and get outside, any aircraft should be long gone. However, were they within 100 yards, that might change the scenario a bit.
The fact is, if one takes out the engine(s), (which it would be very difficult were there two engines), a helicopter CAN auto-rotate to the ground. Given a decent pilot, there should be NO deaths.
I probably would be on the phone with the Sheriff until I received some sort of hostile intent.
I used to wonder about why so many choppers crash in low-altitude flying (Other than the fact that's mostly where they fly anyway) given the capability to autorotate, I mean obviously reaction time had a lot to do with it, but still...then I found out that a chopper needs about a thousand feet of altitude free and clear underneath it before autorotation starts to work and make a substantial difference by the time it comes into contact with Mr. Hardplace.
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DAT, true for the most part. The higher the altitude, the better chance of a GOOD auto-rotation. However, if they're a decent pilot, an auto-rotation from 500 ft AGL will still be possible and increase survivability. There IS a point where a helicopter may be too low to auto-rotate and just crash and burn.