The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on February 25, 2010, 08:33:26 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x193681
Oh my.
Gman (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 12:29 PM
Original message
So who will be the Democrat that pulls a 1980 Ted Kennedy in 2012?
This has shaped up to be so much like Jimmy Carter's first years in office, it's not even funny. The RW, was still very much hurting from Nixon's near impeachment and ignominious resignation. Remember that at the time this group also included the likes of Dick Cheney. They felt Nixon did absolutely nothing wrong and they were out to get Carter. I think it was just as vicious now for Obama, as it was for Carter from the right. Then Carter had to contend with his vicious critics on the left where one would think he should have found friends.
Ted Kennedy ran against Carter in 1980. I frankly think the beating Carter took from Kennedy in the primaries contributed greatly to losing the November election to Reagan.
So who will so-called "progressives" run against Obama in 2012? Kucinich (LOL!)? No, it will be somebody that will be viable. And he/she will do great damage to Obama. No, the "she" will not be Hillary. Then, you can probably expect these so-called "progressives" to back a third party candidate and accomplish what they did in 2000 when they supported Nader. Some people just don't learn, do they? But at least "they have their principles (great sarcasm!)"
Tell me I'm wrong and why!
I'm not sure what to make of the comment by the G-string primitive in bold, above.
Perhaps the G-string primitive can explain why voters switched from Vast Teddy to Ronald Reagan in 1980?
I might be dense, as I'm not getting it.
The campfire starts out with the primitives squibble-squabbling over Alphonse Capote Gore's failed attempt to steal Florida, and then gets back on topic.
freddie mertz (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Whoever it is, I will consider supporting that person.
What we have now is not exactly super-great.
Skink (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'd say Hillary but I'm not sure want to stay in politics by then.
jesus_of_suburbia (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
25. She wouldn't betray Obama.
asdjrocky (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why are you knocking Ted Kennedy?
Gman (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I didn't really consider this as knocking Kennedy, but running against Carter isn't one of the more admirable things he ever did.
asdjrocky (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. It depends on how you look at it.
I think it's very admirable to stand up for what you believe in.
Gman (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. And I think it was less than admirable to cost a sitting Democratic president an election or at the very least contribute greatly to his defeat. Not a lot different than not supporting a sitting Democratic Vice President running for president and causing an idiot republican to be elected.
franksolich still isn't getting it.
How did Vast Teddy "cost" the defeat of the Incompetent One?
Wasn't it the Incompetent One himself, without outside help, who defeated himself?
I really wish the G-string primitive would elaborate on this.
zipplewrath (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Innumerable ways
I'm not sure why you "think" that Kennedy was the cause of Carter's loss, even Carter doesn't think that.
But beyond that, and to what your question truly alludes, the only way that a "viable" dem gets in the primary is if there is sufficient support out there to fund the early campaign. Kennedy was begged by many congressional democrats to run. You can blame that on "progressives" if you want but the reality is that it was the Washington insiders that created his candidacy. Unless you think they will do the same thing this time, I'm dubious Obama has anything to worry about, and if they do, it's because Obama is in that much trouble.
Progressives will talk a big game, and I have no doubt that a Nader, Kucinich, or some other candidate will run a third party. But in the end, the real loss will come from Obama not being able to keep the independents on board that voted for change, and perceive that they are getting more of the same.
The polls say that the people want DADT repealed, but Obama waits.
The polls say that the people support the public option, but Obama dumps it.
The polls say that the people want a change in Washington, but Obama cuts deals with big Pharma and gives deals to Nelson and Landreau.
The people want out of Iraq, out of Afghanistan, but Obama waits.
Gitmo is still open, he's still advocating "indefinite detentions", and he argues in defense of DOMA.
If Obama is in trouble, it is because he isn't listening to the people, not because the people are "principled".
FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 01:11 PM
THE STENCHY CAT PRIMITIVE
Response to Original message
12. I didn't realize that Carter had inherited two wars and a melted down economy had passed a nearly 1 trillion stimulus, had given 95% of the public tax cuts,
and by the end of his first year, was closest to passing HCR in the last 50 years,
and was doing so all while Black!
Now I do.
Hmmmmm.
RagAss (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. Hillary and she'll win.
Beacool (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #30
36. Wishful thinking my friend.
I wish it would be feasible, but it won't happen in 2012.
IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Evan Bayh will do his Ross Perot imitation
Has anyone noticed how much noise Bayh is making about a broken political system? The jungenwunder has ambitions!
madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:59 PM
THE RABID TERRAPIN PRIMITIVE
Response to Reply #31
34. Evan WHO?? Five minutes after he started his "broken politics" schtick is was over for him.
Bayh got his ass handed to himself on a platter by The View.
Sad, just very sad.
madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:54 PM
THE RABID TERRAPIN PRIMITIVE
Response to Original message
32. I see no resemblance whatsoever with the Carter Administration. I would compare it more to Bill Clinton in 1993, who lost Congress after passing tax increases, failing at HCR, and various other issues, and came back without ANY meaningful challenge in the primaries, and kicked Bob Dole's ass into a career of pimping an Erections.
JoePhilly (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'll go with Ben Nelson ... a corpratist who like to vote with the GOP ...
Because the best way to get to vote with the GOP, is to do whatever you can to split the left.
Beacool (1000+ posts) Tue Feb-23-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
35. Hillary has been the most popular person in the administration since last March.
But she would never pull a Ted Kennedy. Other than Hillary, I don't think that right now there is another person who could realistically compete with Obama. Besides, his poll numbers would have to be at Bush's level at the end of his presidency for someone to even think of challenging Obama.
There's more, but I'm still stumbling over the Stenchy Cat primitive's comment about "doing so while black", and so have to quit now, so as to catch my breath.
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Presidenting while black: Sounds like good enough reason for a citizens arrest to me.
:-)....maybe even frog marching and a trail at the "Hag". :-)
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franksolich still isn't getting it.
How did Vast Teddy "cost" the defeat of the Incompetent One?
Wasn't it the Incompetent One himself, without outside help, who defeated himself?
I really wish the G-string primitive would elaborate on this.
Near as I can figure out, Dead Ted hurt Jimmuh's run for president by bringing up all of his faults as president, and letting everyone know that Carter was a failure. That drove independents to Ronald Reagan.
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Good Lord! What a racist comment by Stenchy! Whatever does the level of melanin in ones skin have to do with anything?
I think Thundley's right.
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If they could be bamboozled so easily by a do-nothing, nothing-to-show-for-himself neophyte like Obama while the rest of us pegged him for exactly who is was/is/will be then what makes them think they're any more competent to pick the next savior of mankind?
Oh, wait...
...they have studies.
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Near as I can figure out, Dead Ted hurt Jimmuh's run for president by bringing up all of his faults as president, and letting everyone know that Carter was a failure. That drove independents to Ronald Reagan.
So we are to believe the "independents" could not form their own opinion of Jimmy Carter? They had to wait around breathlessly for Ted Kennedy (of all lardasses!) to lead them?
That is a funny concept!
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So we are to believe the "independents" could not form their own opinion of Jimmy Carter? They had to wait around breathlessly for Ted Kennedy (of all lardasses!) to lead them?
That is a funny concept!
That's why I'm confused.
The Incompetent One defeated himself, by himself.
The only way the G-string primitive's hypothesis would hold true is if the supporters of then-Vast Teddy, now-dead ted, had angrily voted for Reagan because Carter was the Democrat nominee.
And we all know that didn't happen.
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So we are to believe the "independents" could not form their own opinion of Jimmy Carter? They had to wait around breathlessly for Ted Kennedy (of all lardasses!) to lead them?
That is a funny concept!
I should have clarified that. It isn't what I believe happened, but I think that's what the DUmmie is trying to say. Dead Ted brought up the worst about Carter, but most semi intelligent people already knew Carter was a failure.
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Good Lord! What a racist comment by Stenchy! Whatever does the level of melanin in ones skin have to do with anything?
I have to be very careful how I say this.
Very careful, as if treading on dangerous terrain.
Lest the lurking primitives make a purely scientific, anthropological, and psychological curiosity seem "racist."
There are white women who are attracted to black men.
There is no doubt that some multi-racial pairings have worked out well, for the benefit of both parties and involved, and their children. But those pairings have been successful because they involved two emotionally-robust people for whom "race," while it might have been the first attraction, the first infatuation--after all, we're all human (for the record, franksolich has always been attracted to women of obvious Hebraic derivation)--became less and less of a deal when the two people involved became aware (in other words, grew up) there are other reasons to love more than just the color of skin.
However, that pertains only to the emotionally healthy and robust.
Which is far too much to expect of any primitive from Skins's island.
There are other white women who entertain fantasies about black men--or who just want to "shock" other people (the "shock" is only in their imaginations)--or both--and so who make it a point of exclusively hanging around with black dudes, ascribing to black men certain, uh, talents and attributes ostensibly not had by white men.
I think this is a fairly accurate depiction of the Stenchy Cat primitive.
When in college, I had a roommate from the inner-city black ghetto of Kansas City, who commented upon this phenomenon often. (How a black kid ended up in a "party house" with five other kids from the Sandhills of Nebraska is another story altogether; one of those random by-chance things that worked out well.)
He really hated it, white chicks who would come over and hang around with him just because he was black. And he did notice there was a difference between them, and (a) black chicks and (b) white chicks who liked him for reasons other than his black skin.
This black-as-midnight pal of ours really hated white chicks who were hot for black men simply because they were black men.
I don't think he would've cared for the Stenchy Cat primitive.
(To tell the rest of the story, this friend married a black woman, moved to Texas, and was mildly successful in the computer field, until taken away from this time and place in his mid-30s, from superhypertension.)
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Why not John Edwards? Admitted philanderer? Check. Driving while drunk & killing a woman? Nope...but he has thrown the ugly skank that he fathered a child with under the bus. Sounds like he could live up to Fat Teddy's legacy from the 1980 campaign.
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I should have clarified that. It isn't what I believe happened, but I think that's what the DUmmie is trying to say. Dead Ted brought up the worst about Carter, but most semi intelligent people already knew Carter was a failure.
I know you were echoing the Little Goons. I never thought it was your thinking. Heaven forbid! :o
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Having lived through the reign of the Incompetent One, 12% unemployment, 11% inflation, and 23% mortgage rates were the big reason Jimmah lost and lost badly.
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Having lived through the reign of the Incompetent One, 12% unemployment, 11% inflation, and 23% mortgage rates were the big reason Jimmah lost and lost badly.
That was part along with the complete lack of direction he had regarding the Iran hostage crisis but also there was just an intangible feeling that the country had.
You just knew that he had no faith in the greatness of America or its ability to be the beacon of freedom to the world.
He was just out and out depressing and along with the nuts and bolts failures one knew he just wasn`t what a President should be.
O is following in his footsteps in every way.
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That was part along with the complete lack of direction he had regarding the Iran hostage crisis but also there was just an intangible feeling that the country had.
You just knew that he had no faith in the greatness of America or its ability to be the beacon of freedom to the world.
He was just out and out depressing and along with the nuts and bolts failures one knew he just wasn`t what a President should be.
O is following in his footsteps in every way.
And to cap off Jimmuh's monumental and depressing incompetence, he made his classic televised speech scolding us for the "malaise" that he said was infecting America.
Now that's not going to happen with the jug-eared muslim, since today's democrat party promotes and celebrates Jimmuh's "malaise" as the emotion we should always feel, because that's just what America deserves.
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You know what primitives ?
I want you to continue to concentrate on imaginary racism as the source of Obama's woes, right through 2012.