The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Attero Dominatus on March 10, 2008, 06:28:41 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2981294
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-10-08 01:23 AM
Original message
Is there a democracy in this country?
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Another thread title asks, what is the biggest threat to American democracy?
Which prompts the following thought: Since when is there a democracy in this country?
The United States is a naked plutocracy at the head of a world empire in decline. In recent years it has come to rely more and more on military force and big-lie propaganda.
The institutions of a republic are still at work in many spheres (courts, property and commercial rights, individual rights of various kinds, free speech on the Internet). Wealth of a kind is still plentiful. And denial is powerful. So the social consensus to pretend it's a democracy is still maintained, after a fashion.
But it's not a democracy if democracy means one person, one vote. What we have is closer to one dollar, one vote. Lobbies, campaign funders, the various corporate-government complexes and the national security agencies create the policies (and the wars). Voters are props for legitimation purposes. The presidential elections are stage managed, the "viable" candidates are placed two years in advance by the money on the basis of their harmlessness to plutocratic rule and imperialism (they are allowed to differ within a narrow range of debate).
So I think the question misleads. The real questions are:
Is it possible to establish a democracy in the United States? How?
Can the republic and our remaining rights and liberties be preserved in the face of the forces moving to establish a total surveillance state?
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No this country is not a plutocracy you idiot.
alllyingwhores (148 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-10-08 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. No.
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sleebarker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-10-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. Epic lulz at the idea of democracy
We've been fascist for probably most of my life - born in late 1980.
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:whatever:
JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-10-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. There you go...
"Then how would you explain the fact that the public overwhelmingly supports New Deal left wing positions on all of the traditional issues (when they are surveyed strictly on policy areas without any association of the issues to one partisan side or the other) yet it is virtually impossible to elect leadership that will fight for those?"
And any of us can also confirm this anecdotally by asking people outside our own usual sets.
How is it a democracy when, in 2000 (a stolen election), the one who got in was the one who had promised less interventionism and "nation building," and who then went straight to war? (A war set before 9/11, note.)
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JackRiddler (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Mar-10-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I also cringe at the anthem...
but mainly because it's romancing war and glorifying a flag, a completely abstract symbol that can be used and abused for any purpose. The problem with a flag is that any fool can wave one and say, "follow me!"
Almost all of these national anthems are the same thing by the way: We're the greatest, our country is the prettiest, our girls are the hottest, our enemies shall drown in their own blood, wooo-hah!
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:bird:
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No. It's a ****ing Republic, DUmbasses. No where is the word "Democracy" entered into the founding documents....for good reason.
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No. It's a ******* Republic, DUmbasses. No where is the word "Democracy" entered into the founding documents....for good reason.
You are asking a little much from DUmmies....founding what you say?
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America is a Democratic Republic. A pure democracy could not work in America, since we are a big nation.
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America is a Democratic Republic. A pure democracy could not work in America, since we are a big nation.
We are a representative republic. Pure "democracy" ends up being the tyranny of the majority and eventually dies once the electorate knows it can vote itself the treasury.
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America is a Democratic Republic. A pure democracy could not work in America, since we are a big nation.
It wouldn't work in any nation. As for "Democratic Republic", I'd be careful when you use those two in conjunction as well. It's the reason Republic has somehow been bastardized into meaning "Democracy". If you're saying that because Republic is representative, well, using Democratic or Representative in front of Republic is about like saying "Man, this is some cold ice", or "This is some hot fire".
"Republic" doesn't need representative in front of it. It is, by very definition, a representative form of government.