The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Tucker on February 03, 2010, 06:34:23 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7629208
GiveMeFreedom Donating Member (227 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 01:30 AM
Original message
Lost my house today
Yep, Bank of America said I do not qualify for the making homes affordable loan program. It seems I make enough money, that my wife's and my income is $11.098.89 a month gross or $133,000 dollars a year.
WHAT THE ****???!!!!????
I am a construction worker, I admit I made great money when the housing market was building like crazy, yea it was easy to make $80k plus a year working 2200 hours or more a year. And my wife is a teacher who makes an easy $50K a year, so yea, $130,000 a year was good, damn good. That was right up to 2007. I knew before most that something was terribly wrong, as the big home builders where building less and buying less. I watched as my job went from 40+ hours a week to maybe 2 weeks a month of less than 40 hours. But the damage was done.
We had all ready bought our dream home in 2004
Sure we got caught up in the easy money, but we could afford it. We lived real right and happy. Making that house payment was too easy. So we took out a second.
Huge ****ing mistake!@@!@#$
Looking back that was the straw that broke me.
My income has been severed by more than half and jobs for a 52 year old heavy equipment operator are so far and few between, that I have quit even trying. I really have no other marketable skill that pays as well as that job does and at my age employers are not really willing to train me for a well paying job.
Since mid 2008 right up to today right here in 2010, we tried to keep our home. At first we could not make payments or just quit paying all together. We hired one of those "we'll help you keep your house" agencies, that in a nutshell, did not work obviously, but they got theirs.
Then B of A (bank of assholes) offered us one of those making homes affordable trial programs. My wife and I where ecstatic, we would be able to keep our home. So in late 2009 we started sending in the trial payments hoping that we would finally get a break. We paid all three of the trial payments and have kept paying since, no lates and on time.
BUT NO!!!
I received a letter today that says we make to much money and should be able to afford the original payment, so no break for us. Of course at the end of the letter they acknowledge that we must be going through difficult times and wish us well?
WHAT the ****???!!!
In the letter, B of A said that after careful review of our financial statements (bank records, pay stubs, unemployment stubs, etc. over a years worth) they have computed that our gross monthly income is $11,000 a month or $130k a year.
Where the **** did they get that ****ing number from??? huh???!#@
As I look at my official U.S. government documents or W-2's for 2009, I notice that my total income for 2009 was $36k, $13k of it unemployment. My wife is at her $50K. Adding it all up, well you do the math. It is not no way in heaven, hell, congress, or B of A's little computer adding up to $133k a year.
I called B of A immediately and told them exactly what I made last year, as reported by my employers on my W-2's. Guess what?
It doesn't make a ****ing difference to them what my W-2's say?????@#!@!!!@%$#
Are you kidding me?
I guess what B of A really wants is my dream crushed and my family to rent a home. They want us out plain and simple. So they come up with these imaginary numbers from only the Devil knows where and stand back knowing that I will capitulate and say..
Hey, Bank of America, **** YOU!!! I QUIT, YOU WIN MOTHER ****ERS!
All in all it's probably a good thing. The house is so upside down in debt that I can see China outside my window. Rent in my area is around $1000 to $1500 a month, so we will be able to actually save money. The stress of being a "Moral Hazard" will be complete and I can own that, a relief really.
There is a lot of blame to go around about this financial meltdown and the shenanigans behind it. You can blame me for being greedy maybe, even stupid more likely as I did my small part to **** up my American dream. But you have to admit I was not a big player in all of this, just another of the 13 million Americans who are finding out the hard way...
The Financial Institutions don't give a ****!!! The government doesn't give a ****!!! My Senators don't give a ****!!!, My Congressman doesn't give ****!!!
And I am starting to believe the President doesn't really care about main street to much either. Geez!!! imagine that!
So condemn me if you wish, call me what you will and have your way with my small intellect, I will just refuse to fix the potholes in your highways and hope they grow and grow!!
Now I need to figure out how long I can stay here and how much I can save before they come. ****ers.
Rant over,I feel a little better, cya on the front lines of the revolution.
Bought a house in 04 and by 07 had taken out a 2nd. What did you do with the money?
Freedom4me (37 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. soo.
So, had a market based job, yet spent like it was a fixed income, and made "Huge ****ing mistake!@@!@#$" (by your own admission) - how can you blame that on anyone?
They want you to rent a home and your dream crushed....well you cant afford your dream, so...you should be happy your wife and you make enough to make a decent living. surely not the living you feel entitled to, but....I'd be very blessed to be in your position. With that extra income pre 2007, that could have been a nice savings account or investment money.
If I loaned you money for a house and you couldnt pay me back, id be pissed at you...seems to be the other way around here?
Is it lunch yet?
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Except that he WAS working out a payment plan, and BofA lied about his income to screw him
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 02:04 AM by scheming daemons
Go away.
Sure they did. :lmao:
Freedom4me (37 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. wut
You guys here are brutal.. I just signed up here, so I may be a little more fresh on the rules than some of you..
"3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum."
You tell people you disagree with to "go away" ?
I was not disrespectful in any way, I dont understand?
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "I was not disrespectful in any way"
Except to basically call the OP a loser, albeit without using that word.
scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. "If I loaned you money for a house and you couldnt pay me back, id be pissed at you."
I repeat... you're not fooling anybody.
conservativecave.com is thataway --------->
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GiveMeFreedom is startin' to sound like one of dem teabaggers !! - A WITCH!! A WITCH!!!!
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A construction worker that makes nearly $40 an hour?
I'm calling BS, even in a union shop. I see what guys from the hall get, and it ain't anywhere near that. Hell, even MY base rate isn't that high.
And FWIW, DUmmies, claiming 2200 hours in a year might SOUND impressive on it's face, but it comes out to barely 2 hours of OT per week, hardly worth getting your panties in a wad over. Call me when you hit 800 hours of OT.
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GiveMeFreedom is startin' to sound like one of dem teabaggers !! - A WITCH!! A WITCH!!!!
She turned me into a newt...I got better.
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I guess what B of A really wants is my dream crushed and my family to rent a home. They want us out plain and simple.
Sorry dude,not true at all. People get mad at the banks in times like this, but the LAST thing they want is another house foreclosure. They'll lose money. They want you to pay your mortgage.
If they're not willing or able to work with you, I'm betting there's something you're not telling .
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Sorry dude,not true at all. People get mad at the banks in times like this, but the LAST thing they want is another house foreclosure. They'll lose money. They want you to pay your mortgage.
If they're not willing or able to work with you, I'm betting there's something you're not telling .
This should be a generic statement that can be used in every DU thread. Remember that DUmmy's lie. All the time. They lie.
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My income has been severed by more than half and jobs for a 52 year old heavy equipment operator are so far and few between, that I have quit even trying.
Screw you then,life has served up some difficulty so you run away crying.
Is there such a thing as a real man at the DUmp?
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This should be a generic statement that can be used in every DU thread. Remember that DUmmy's lie. All the time. They lie.
Yes. And it's always someone else's fault. At least he didn't blame Bush.
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Sorry dude,not true at all. People get mad at the banks in times like this, but the LAST thing they want is another house foreclosure. They'll lose money. They want you to pay your mortgage.
If they're not willing or able to work with you, I'm betting there's something you're not telling .
If the OP isn't a mole - I suspect he is upset because he did not get his free pony for making less than 250K a year. He has also discovered that Obama has hidden all sorts of fee increases throughout his policies because they are called things other than 'Tax' - why else would he be upside-down on a mortgage ? The value of his home artificially inflated because of government programs and requirements, and he was fool enough to believe them-
For example also - the 'stimulus' :
Anyone with a partially functioning brain knows that the inflation this will generate will affect everyone, making what one earns now worth less than it is today. There may not be any new payroll deductions, but when a dollar today only buys 85 cents worth of goods tomorrow one now has 15% less capital to work with because of government action. is it a tax ? no.. Does it have the same effect on your wallet as a tax ? You Betcha.
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And I am starting to believe the President doesn't really care about main street to much either. Geez!!! imagine that!
Told ya. Nah nah nah nah nah :tongue:
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He suggests that since he cannot find anything that makes him $80K in a year, then it's OK just to sit on the sofa. It doesn't work that way. Keeping your house in tough economic times takes some fight, and if necessary, swallowing some pride. He could find something, anything. If he found something for $40, combined with his wife's $50, that's a pretty nice living. I have no sympathy. Get off the couch.
The shoutout------> was pretty funny.
BTW, who is our newest member with the Che avatar? No posts yet, I see.
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Rent in my area is around $1000 to $1500 a month, so we will be able to actually save money.
Then rent one of your rooms. Should help you pay your mortgage.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
46. How much was your monthly payment that you and the wife couldn't swing it on $86K?
GiveMeFreedom Donating Member (227 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed Feb-03-10 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #46
64. Really?
$3100.00 a month, but hey, my life is an open book now.
$3100.00 A MONTH! Holy crap how much of a mortgage did this guy take out?
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He didn't learn much at the school of hard knocks in 52 years.....must have always gotten social promotions.
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Another DUmbazz lives beyond his means during the awful Boosch years and now it's the banks fault
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$3100.00 A MONTH! Holy crap how much of a mortgage did this guy take out?
At current 30-year rates, over $500K. Even at the rates in 2004-07, it's in the high 400's, at least.
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Why does one suppose comment #21, cited here, got deleted over on Skins's island?
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At current 30-year rates, over $500K. Even at the rates in 2004-07, it's in the high 400's, at least.
Holy Schnikies!
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Why does one suppose comment #21, cited here, got deleted over on Skins's island?
Gee, I wonder.
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Why does one suppose comment #21, cited here, got deleted over on Skins's island?
It was a notification of where the DUmmy's can go and read all the deleted comments at the camp ground. We provide a service. We fill in the gaps.
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He was making $3100 a month in payments? He should be happy to get out of that, other loan places would break both your kneecaps for that.
Think of this... if you rent for $1550, you are saving THAT much too. That's another $1550 a month he can donate to Haiti relief or the Salvation Army.
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$3100.00 A MONTH! Holy crap how much of a mortgage did this guy take out?
I'll bet he got one of those adjustable rate mortgages with little going to principle. Lot of house with smaller monthly. The rates adjusted up, payment balloons and your house isn't worth what you paid too much for. Toss in the kiss of death second and you're screwed.
Advice to all...f### 2nd mortgages. Don't do it.
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I'll bet he got one of those adjustable rate mortgages with little going to principle. Lot of house with smaller monthly. The rates adjusted up, payment balloons and your house isn't worth what you paid too much for. Toss in the kiss of death second and you're screwed.
Advice to all...f### 2nd mortgages. Don't do it.
Actually, ARMs are adjusting DOWN right now.
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Actually, ARMs are adjusting DOWN right now.
Yes, but I'm talking about a few years ago. Don't those low principle loans go up significantly when principle payments start.
You start out with low payments and no principle. Put very little to nothing down, so you have no equity. You hope the market keeps going up so you refinance to a conventional loan. Market goes down, principle payments kick in...you're screwed.
Of course it could be I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :-)
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The DUmmy can find a job. He would just have to go overseas.
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WTF is right.
130K a year and not only do you think you qualify for a Government handout for your house payment...but with that kind of income you can't make they payment?
Sounds to me like someone is living beyond their means.
Especially with a six figure income.
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Another post in the thread. See if you can spot the discrepancies.
jotsy Donating Member (468 posts)
Response to Original message
84. My home of 15 years was bought at an auction on Monday, January 25.
The original loan amount was just under $73,000. We have made $100,000 in payments but not seen as having an equitable stake in the property. How we got here is a result of no work from October 08 to March 09. We were already struggling as a result of changes in the wage structure. My spouse became an electrician in '96 which at the time included benefits as well as vacation and holiday pay. By 2004, not only were employers no longer offering that kind of compensation, the wage, in and of itself had gone down. We tried to gather ourselves, moved the credit debt to a second mortgage, and then worked for a general who wrote rubber pay checks, we got our money...3 months later. I had called the labor department, the contractor's board, even the local police and DA, I thought it was illegal to knowingly write bad checks. I was repeatedly and consistently instructed to obtain a lawyer, which I set in search of, but told by that crowd they wouldn't be interested in pursuing a matter where money was an issue. No slice of pay for them, they passed, tyvm. So by the end of the first quarter of 09, he's finally back to work, but we're 90 days out on the mortgage, we sent the mortgage service company two and a half house payments to enter a loan modification program, assured that every penny we sent would apply to overdue payments, but instead they used what we sent them to initiate the eviction process. He talked to them the weekend before and was assured again that the house was not to be auctioned, but on Monday night some perky little thing in a trendy trench coat knocked on my door and said she was represented the buyer, who wants us out in 10 days.
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I want those two minutes of my life back, kenth. That was a whole shitload of failed bouncy in there.
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Then rent one of your rooms. Should help you pay your mortgage.
Good suggestion. I know a drunk in Wichita and another one in Denver who are looking for a place. There was also an author who writes novels about intergalactic paranormal sex crimes who was on the verge of homelessness. Maybe they could split it three ways.
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Well why didn't they save some of huge income for a rainy day? When my husband was laid off we had insurance that made the payments but his new job pays less than the one he had before. We went to our lender, explained the situation and they adjusted our payments so they were more in line with our income. We didn't have to use any special program or anything. Just a pleasant conversation with the loan officer. Why not try something like that?
Cindie
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I want those two minutes of my life back, kenth. That was a whole shitload of failed bouncy in there.
I love how the actual foreclosure was completely skipped over. From late payment sent directly to new owner showing up out of the blue.
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Well why didn't they save some of huge income for a rainy day? When my husband was laid off we had insurance that made the payments but his new job pays less than the one he had before. We went to our lender, explained the situation and they adjusted our payments so they were more in line with our income. We didn't have to use any special program or anything. Just a pleasant conversation with the loan officer. Why not try something like that?
Cindie
DUmmy's don't request anything. They make demands. Sense of entitlements and all that.
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Well why didn't they save some of huge income for a rainy day? When my husband was laid off we had insurance that made the payments but his new job pays less than the one he had before. We went to our lender, explained the situation and they adjusted our payments so they were more in line with our income. We didn't have to use any special program or anything. Just a pleasant conversation with the loan officer. Why not try something like that?
Cindie
Do you honestly think a DUmmie could have a pleasant conversation with anyone, let alone an evil , rethuglican banker?
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It is inconceivable to me that someone would sign up for a $3100/month mortgage payment on a gross income of $130,000. It they have any other obligations, like a car payment, insurance, savings, credit card, kids, any of the expenses that come along with having a normal middle class life, that payment is crazy and unsustainable for someone who's only making $130K. It's also inconceivable that lenders were approving such loans.
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Maybe that $3100 includes his property taxes?!? Even so, that is way too much for someone making $130k a year. Our house payment back in Texas was $1500 a month and we made quite a bit more than this guy claims he did when we lived in Texas. I don't even want to tell you how much our payment is here in CA. It makes me want to throw up every first of the month. I'll just tell you that we paid more than 20% down to be able to get a conforming loan (we didn't want a jumbo loan or the interest rate that comes with a jumbo loan). For those of you who know mortgages you can probably figure out what our payment is. God I hate California.
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$86k/year?
I make just under half that and I got a 5/2 I picked-up for $118k with a monthly 15% lower than what I was renting for.
:loser:
You should have sold the ****ing house and moved to something smaller.
LOSER: But I want my house!
MSB: First of all, it isn't your house until you satisfy the mortgage. Until then it belongs to the BofA depositors whose money was used to underwrite it...and now MY money since I--as a taxpayer--had to bail out BofA. "Fiduciary responsibility" look it up.
Second, you lost your house anyway. Now you're out of a house AND a credit rating to get back into another one because you spent all your time and energy writing letters to your senator looking to have him extort other people's money to save you instead of taking all that time you spent unemployed working towards something you could afford.
$86k WHILE unemployed?!?!?!
You don't deserve it. Go die under a bridge.
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I am a construction worker, I admit I made great money when the housing market was building like crazy, yea it was easy to make $80k plus a year working 2200 hours or more a year. And my wife is a teacher who makes an easy $50K a year, so yea, $130,000 a year was good, damn good. That was right up to 2007. I knew before most that something was terribly wrong, as the big home builders where building less and buying less. I watched as my job went from 40+ hours a week to maybe 2 weeks a month of less than 40 hours. But the damage was done.
Why didn't this guy do something about his career when he saw it coming? If I were in an industry that I could see that it was going down the tubes I would rethink what I was doing for a living and try to figure something out before the end came. What is he doing now to retrain to start a different career? I do realize that some people just think they will have their job forever but come on, think outside the box.
My husband has taken classes that will help him keep up on new technologies, although he still feels he is behind and that makes him nervous as he doesn't really get to design anymore. It makes him feel like he is getting "stale" in industrial design. He has in the past taken side work to try to keep "fresh" but he has been way too busy to do that over the past few years. When he lost his first job out of college (we had JUST bought a house a few months before he lost his job) he worked three part time jobs (not in his field, all grocery store stocker type jobs) until he got a new job. He went over 200 miles outside of Phoenix to find a job (we lived in Phoenix and he got his new job in Lake Havasu City). We had to sell our house and rent. He just didn't sit around wondering when a new job would fall in his lap. The company didn't pay for our move, we pack up and moved ourselves. We couldn't even afford to buy boxes (we went around to grocery stores and asked for boxes). I do realize in this economy that it will be hell to find a job but I think the DU attitude is they will not take anything they think is "beneath" them and would rather sit around until a job just lands in their lap. it "aint" going to happen.
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He needs a place to read DU now that Lord and Master O has told them to turn off MSNBC
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BEG:
I think the DU attitude is they will not take anything they think is "beneath" them and would rather sit around until a job just lands in their lap. it "aint" going to happen.
You see this time and time and time again over there! It drives me crazy, one sob story after another with the same theme....
1) Any work around here is not in my field/prior salary range/dignity level.
2) Clock keeps ticking, calender keeps turning.
3) OMFG, I'm broke, wolves are at the door!
4) Write senators, congressmen, and local paper
5) Post at DU
And then they never see that their compatriot never has a happy ending. It's woe and misery all around, don't you think it would occur to them to try a different path?
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The amount of income the DUmmy had before is really immaterial. If he'd been making $200K, he would have signed up for three times the payment. Sports Illustrated had an article that reported 60 percent of N.B.A. players are broke within five years of retiring, and 78 percent of N.F.L. players are bankrupt or under financial stress within two years, and these guys were making a hell of a lot more than this DUmmy. A person as stupid as a DUmmy, or these players, will go bust eventually regardless of income or the state of the economy. It isn't economics, it's a deficit in IQ points.
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BEG:
You see this time and time and time again over there! It drives me crazy, one sob story after another with the same theme....
1) Any work around here is not in my field/prior salary range/dignity level.
2) Clock keeps ticking, calender keeps turning.
3) OMFG, I'm broke, wolves are at the door!
4) Write senators, congressmen, and local paper
5) Post at DU
And then they never see that their compatriot never has a happy ending. It's woe and misery all around, don't you think it would occur to them to try a different path?
Well, I guess, like Eddy, they're holding out for a management position.
Cindie
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The amount of income the DUmmy had before is really immaterial. If he'd been making $200K, he would have signed up for three times the payment. Sports Illustrated had an article that reported 60 percent of N.B.A. players are broke within five years of retiring, and 78 percent of N.F.L. players are bankrupt or under financial stress within two years, and these guys were making a hell of a lot more than this DUmmy. A person as stupid as a DUmmy, or these players, will go bust eventually regardless of income or the state of the economy. It isn't economics, it's a deficit in IQ points.
I think all of the major sports are doing something like this, but I recently ran across an article about how Major League Baseball works with their young players:
Coaching Baseball Rookies for the Limelight (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/30/us/30rookie.html)
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Another post in the thread. See if you can spot the discrepancies.
When my brother died they were already behind on their mortgage. He died July 2008, they finally foreclosed on the house only a few months ago. My brothers widow didn't work, she says he didn't have any life insurance and she has not made a payment since he died. It took them almost a year and a half after he died (remember they were already behind when he died) to finally kick her out of the house.
Man it makes me sad to think that the house my brother worked so hard for is gone. He saved money while working in NYC to put a down payment on his house. He put a LOT down on that house....now it is just all gone and so is he. Hey DU'ers, that is what drugs will do to you. You will eventually lose your job, your home and finally your life.
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I'll bet he got one of those adjustable rate mortgages with little going to principle. Lot of house with smaller monthly. The rates adjusted up, payment balloons and your house isn't worth what you paid too much for. Toss in the kiss of death second and you're screwed.
Advice to all...f### 2nd mortgages. Don't do it.
I would agree with you here, the timing is right for them to have had an adjustable, they refinanced when it adjusted and acquired a second at that time. He doesn't specify what the second was for, but at that time, many lenders were doing 80/20. The 80% was the primary mortgage and because it was 80 or less, no taxes or insurance were required to be escrow-ed. The 20% was the second and it allowed for the lack of escrow.
Depending on where the guy lives.....there was probably enough increase in home value to support the loans or they wouldn't have been done.
Yes, but I'm talking about a few years ago. Don't those low principle loans go up significantly when principle payments start.
You start out with low payments and no principle. Put very little to nothing down, so you have no equity. You hope the market keeps going up so you refinance to a conventional loan. Market goes down, principle payments kick in...you're screwed.
Of course it could be I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :-)
ARM's usually have a max amount of how much the interest can "balloon" to. Most are 8-10% above the existing rate on the mortgage.
It's enough to "gently persuade" a homeowner to refinance......which puts more up front money into the lender's coffers. The lender gets around it by saying, "we'll just tack those closing costs into the loan and it won't cost you anything at this time."
Well why didn't they save some of huge income for a rainy day? When my husband was laid off we had insurance that made the payments but his new job pays less than the one he had before. We went to our lender, explained the situation and they adjusted our payments so they were more in line with our income. We didn't have to use any special program or anything. Just a pleasant conversation with the loan officer. Why not try something like that?
Cindie
Some lenders have been much more receptive to helping people who have been laid off, or lost their jobs, etc. than others.
From what I have been able to determine....there's absolutely no logic to who gets helped and who doesn't.
Count yourself among the lucky ones.
I love how the actual foreclosure was completely skipped over. From late payment sent directly to new owner showing up out of the blue.
As I'm one of those people who show up at the door ..... you would be surprised how many people think they are being helped by the mortgage company...only to find out they have been foreclosed on.
In the last year....I personally did two evictions that both homeowners were working with the bank to avoid the foreclosure. Both had sent the bank several thousand dollars...thinking they were getting loan modification....only to find out that the bank kept their money and still foreclosed. I have done others in the last 3-4 years in the same situation. They have been VA, FHA and conventional loans. With VA and FHA being the worst.
One of the problems to this situation is that Loan Modification and REO (asset recovery) are two totally different departments....most often in different states.....often in different COUNTRIES - India being the primary country handling asset recovery.
The homeowner is working with the Loan Modification department trying to get all the paperwork submitted, reviewed, more paperwork submitted, etc.....not realizing that the Loan Modification department is NOT talking with the REO department who is proceeding with the eviction.
The homeowner send money to the Loan Modification department to get the process completed....again...not realizing...that the money being sent to LM does not get applied to the loan itself....therefore the REO department sees it still as a deadbeat loan.
All that stimulus money that went to the banks to help homeowners.....didn't. Only a small fraction of homeowners who have applied for LM have actually been helped. Again ....Obama and his merry band of idiots are lying when they stand at a press conference or town hall meeting and say the American homeowner is being helped.
Out of about 7 or 8 homeowners that I know, who have asked for loan modification, only 1 has received it. The husband had lost his job. They did the 3 payments on time, then the loan switched over to the modification. In their specific case, though their house value had dropped about 20% from what it was 2 years ago, they only had a 60% loan to new valuation. I'm sure that had a great influence with their lender to work with them.
This is happening all over the country....which combined with house values dropping in most places - some as much as 50-60%.....is causing homeowners to just walk away from their homes and not even try to keep their homes. I read an article yesterday was all about how homeowners are just leaving and going to a rental because it's cheaper than their house payment.
(http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/HomeFinancing/HomeownersWhoJustWalkAway.aspx )
In many cases....the homeowner has to walk away prior to them being foreclosed, so that they are able to rent someplace before the foreclosure hits their credit report.
As long as foreclosures, or "walk-aways" continue to happen...particularly at the current rate....home values are going to decrease.
When I do the reports I do....I pull 6 comparables on each one. 3 current lists, and 3 solds from within no more than 180 days (some banks want as low as 60 days). If the comps are more than a half mile away from the subject property, I have to explain why.
If out of those 6 comps....if any are foreclosures....they are usually at 30-50% value of what they would be as a traditional resale. 30-50%!!!! Now make at least 1 list and 1 sold out of those 6 a foreclosure. 6 comp houses....all have 1000 SF. 2 of the lists are $100k each and are traditional owner occupant resales....the 3rd is an REO property listed at $55k. 2 of the solds were listed at $100k---one sold for $95K, the other for $93K, the last an REO sells for $48k. All things being equal - lot size, condition, age, SF.....the bank is going to look at the valuation of the subject property, based on an average 90-120 day sale, around $82k.....with maybe pricing the subject house at $55-65k on a "30 day quick sale" if that high depending on how many comparable properties there are on the market within a .5 to 1mile radius of the subject property. These numbers are all based on the subject being in average or better condition. No damage to the property. If there is damage, that brings the subject pricing down....sometimes minimal like a missing light fixture or two.....sometimes major like walls/floors missing, windows broken out, HVAC/plumbing missing, frame house that hasn't seen a paint brush in 20 years.
Put several of these distressed properties - which is what they are, even when in perfect condition - into a subdivision or neighborhood and watch the surrounding house values go in a downward spiral.
While we may not want the government helping people out with their mortgages.....we need them to help in order to keep our own houses from devaluing....
So much of this country's economy is based on the housing industry....just as it is on the auto industry.
We....America....is in a vicious Catch-22 and I, for one, have no idea how we are going to get out of it.
It isn't very comforting to know that those idiots in Washington don't have any idea either....
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Some lenders have been much more receptive to helping people who have been laid off, or lost their jobs, etc. than others.
From what I have been able to determine....there's absolutely no logic to who gets helped and who doesn't.
Count yourself among the lucky ones.
Perhaps but I still think communicating with them is better than trying to hide from it. Ours had nothing to do with the government's program. They just redid the terms of the loan. Happened in a couple of days with minimal paperwork.
Cindie
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Perhaps but I still think communicating with them is better than trying to hide from it. Ours had nothing to do with the government's program. They just redid the terms of the loan. Happened in a couple of days with minimal paperwork.
Cindie
It seems to have a lot to do with the mortgage company....some are just much more receptive than others.
Even for the couple who had all the equity...it still took about a month from start to finish.
You are right though....communication is the most important thing. The other most important thing....is for the homeowner to make sure that both the loan modification dept and the REO - or asset recovery department are both aware of what is going on.
It is up to the homeowner to make sure that each department knows what is going on..I can guarantee that they are not going to take it upon themselves to communicate with each other.
I would also just like to mention that I am never "perky" when I knock on someone's door to tell them they've lost their house.
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It seems to have a lot to do with the mortgage company....some are just much more receptive than others.
Even for the couple who had all the equity...it still took about a month from start to finish.
You are right though....communication is the most important thing. The other most important thing....is for the homeowner to make sure that both the loan modification dept and the REO - or asset recovery department are both aware of what is going on.
It is up to the homeowner to make sure that each department knows what is going on..I can guarantee that they are not going to take it upon themselves to communicate with each other.
I would also just like to mention that I am never "perky" when I knock on someone's door to tell them they've lost their house.
Well, gosh, I can't imagine that you would be. That would be a difficult job.
Cindie
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Well, gosh, I can't imagine that you would be. That would be a difficult job.
Cindie
My comment wasn't directed at you, Cindie....it was at the bottom of one of the DU poster's comment.
It's always difficult....just sometimes...it's more difficult than others.
Like when the wife has had a severe car accident and can't go back to work, or there's been a divorce, or the tenant has no clue that all the money they've been paying every month on a lease purchase - was for nothing because the a-hole landlord/home owner pocketed the money and didn't make the house payments with the rent money.
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My comment wasn't directed at you, Cindie....it was at the bottom of one of the DU poster's comment.
It's always difficult....just sometimes...it's more difficult than others.
Like when the wife has had a severe car accident and can't go back to work, or there's been a divorce, or the tenant has no clue that all the money they've been paying every month on a lease purchase - was for nothing because the a-hole landlord/home owner pocketed the money and didn't make the house payments with the rent money.
Since my little brother has been out of college, near on 15 years or so, he has worked in mortgage collections, and done quite well. This is a man that is a very gentle soul. (In a manly way, he ain't no pu$$y) He just goes in and does what he does, and then goes home and is a father and a husband. I always wondered how he could do what he did. I imagine you see a lot of what he goes through.
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Since my little brother has been out of college, near on 15 years or so, he has worked in mortgage collections, and done quite well. This is a man that is a very gentle soul. (In a manly way, he ain't no pu$$y) He just goes in and does what he does, and then goes home and is a father and a husband. I always wondered how he could do what he did. I imagine you see a lot of what he goes through.
I've been thinking about this thread a lot tonight.
I try really hard to not think too much about what I sometimes have to do ....only because if I dwell on it...I start feeling responsible that I must help these individuals.
While I often will try to help them find a place to live...that's not my job and though I recognize it certainly is not my fault that they are in this situation....I still feel rotten because I am the one that has to tell them.
It never gets easy to look someone in the face and tell them they have to get out of their home.
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My ex didn't have a thought or concern when she kicked my ass out of the house. Of course it was HER house. She didn't even care that I had no place to go, no living relatives, etc. And she works for the same company as you, Deb. Then, as the house was foreclosed on, she managed to find a townhome that one of her friends bought and rented to her. Here I am, struggling to make ends meet, while she's sitting all fat, dumb, and happy, literally. OK, I'm whining, I know.
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I've been thinking about this thread a lot tonight.
I try really hard to not think too much about what I sometimes have to do ....only because if I dwell on it...I start feeling responsible that I must help these individuals.
While I often will try to help them find a place to live...that's not my job and though I recognize it certainly is not my fault that they are in this situation....I still feel rotten because I am the one that has to tell them.
It never gets easy to look someone in the face and tell them they have to get out of their home.
I offer my heartfelt sympathies Deb. I've twice deployed on national disasters working in safety and security. I had to kick people out of evac shelters for bad behavior. Granted they were dickheads but sometimes they were dickheads with kids. And even if they didn't have kids it was still a human being who had lost everything that wasn't crammed under a flimsy aluminum cot. And when they got washed out of the shelter system they literally had NO place to go.
I had to supervise young people turning away crowds who expected services and relief supplies at a place where there weren't any. I told them that I knew they had come down to help people but that we weren't helping people today. We were moving them along as quickly as possible. Hi there theres nothing being distributed here this sheet of paper has the numbers you need to call sorry thank you please move your vehicle. One soft, one firm and then one curtailed dismissal. Don't make eye contact dont engage. It breaks your heart. :(
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heh, ot but funny (i think)
the title of this post reminds me of a bobcat goldthwait routine i saw him do at the half shell on comm ave in boston back in the 1980's (dude was funny back in the day...)
"i lost my job. i didn't really lose it. i know where it is, its just every time go back there someone else is doing it."
then he tells a few more jokes, followed by...
"i lost my girlfriend. i didn't really lose her. i know where she is, its just every time go back there someone else is doing her."
heh. ok, so maybe i am simple, but i always laugh when someone says "i lost my..."
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Maybe that $3100 includes his property taxes?!? Even so, that is way too much for someone making $130k a year. Our house payment back in Texas was $1500 a month and we made quite a bit more than this guy claims he did when we lived in Texas. I don't even want to tell you how much our payment is here in CA. It makes me want to throw up every first of the month. I'll just tell you that we paid more than 20% down to be able to get a conforming loan (we didn't want a jumbo loan or the interest rate that comes with a jumbo loan). For those of you who know mortgages you can probably figure out what our payment is. God I hate California.
I've got a pretty good idea of the payment and the property taxes. Yeah, I feel for ya sister.
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Someone might have already brough this up, but I don't have time to read through 4 pages.
This is a lot of baloney, starting with this:
GiveMeFreedom
Sure we got caught up in the easy money, but we could afford it. We lived real right and happy. Making that house payment was too easy. So we took out a second.
Making the payments were easy. You had plenty of money and paying off things were simple. So why did you get a second mortgage? That makes absolutely no sense. You had absolutely no problem making your payments so much so that you cashed-out on a second mortgage so you have have more pocket money. Yeah, that doesn't add up, primitive.
.
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hellsbeagle (32 posts) Wed Feb-03-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
89. I lost my house in 2008 after I was scapegoated for a derailment.
Now I am 47 years old and my life savings are gone, I am stuck working at a union-busting outfit in Virginia for one third the pay I was making before. So far I have been waiting 18 months for a NMB referee to get of their ass and make a decision in my case so that I can go home to my family in Texas. And none of the organizations that are supposed to help/protect me gave a ****.
GiveMeFreedom, my brother/sister, I will be standing right next to you on the barricades once the shit goes down. And so will my dog.
It is time to hit the streets!
What is a NMB referee and why does this person have to wait for a decision by a NMB referee so they can move to Texas to be with their family?
readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
103. I feel ya. Welcome back to realizing that you're working class and that your owners don't give a
shit about you. (That's George Carlin, not me.)
I'm immorally and irresponsibly in debt for going out and getting a Ph.D. (I should've WORKED while I was getting my Ph.D. I should've SAVED... oh wait, I did.) Now I'm trying to get by on my low-pay gig. (Right, I should've gotten my Ph.D. in something more PRACTICAL. Oh wait? It is practical. Okay it should've been MORE practical.)
Right-wing memes abound don't they? Best of luck.
Obviously your PhD was a stupid move, you didn't say what it was that you got your PhD in. I bet it was in something stupid.
leftygolfer (72 posts) Thu Feb-04-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #109
293. If I made half that...
Maybe even a third of that, I'd be dancing in the street. Sorry, I know it's a tough time for everyone, but it's hard to get worked up for someone who is in a position many of us aspire to.
Now the real DU'ers are coming out
superconnected (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
115. Don't pay another dime. You need it to live on after you leave there anyway.
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 01:47 PM by superconnected
Good credit is only good for one thing - more credit.
You are fortunate that at least your wife works still.
You will make it. Head up. You are correct, you are not a big player. You really were set up to fail many times - the homeloan in the first place, the re-mortgage, the help for home onwners program that took your money, and the bank still trying to take your money when they made up the numbers of your income and most likely knew when you walked in the door what they were really going to do.
I'm sorry this cost you your dream house. But, let it go. Don't blame yourself, chin up. Declare bankruptcy if you can and try to get it on only one of you for all of your debt - that may take some fixing of getting credit and other items in to only one of your names. And then use the others good name after the bankruptcy to try to recover. You can own a house again and on better terms.
Best wishes to you. Geniuses have gotten screwed in this economy and this housing market. So don't even think of beating yourself up. You need yourself to prop yourself up. Take what good you can from it. A learning experience. Move on. I'll bet your future does end up bright.
It's never your fault, you are a victim.
earth mom (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #134
145. This has EVERYTHING to do with Obama. He has done everything to help the banksters
and very little to help the MAJORITY of the people.
If Obama had put all those trillions he gave to the banksters into Green Technology and Green Jobs, I'd bet the economy would be almost back on track by now!
I'm sorry but..... :lmao:
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Someone might have already brough this up, but I don't have time to read through 4 pages.
This is a lot of baloney, starting with this:
Making the payments were easy. You had plenty of money and paying off things were simple. So why did you get a second mortgage? That makes absolutely no sense. You had absolutely no problem making your payments so much so that you cashed-out on a second mortgage so you have have more pocket money. Yeah, that doesn't add up, primitive.
.
Boat, new cars, plane, some toy they just absolutely couldn't live without I'll bet.
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NMB Referee = National Mediation Board. Someone appealed their firing. The only train derailment I have personal knowledge of happened when the crew I knew fell asleep and didn't know they were dragging cars :lmao: Can you believe they got fired for that?
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Ok I'm bored. I'm just doing laundry right now, I could be cleaning bathrooms but reading this thread over at DU is more fun (believe it or not).
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #146
158. In the OP's shoes?
With an 86k income? Sure, absolutely, where can I sign up? My household makes a tenth of that, and will never own a house to lose.
Like I said, a lot of people would love to have the OP's problems. My empathy is reserved for those who actually need it.
county worker (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #158
166. You don't have empathy to give.
People hurt no matter what their financial position is.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #166
191. Yeah, and rich kids cry themselves to sleep
Because they can't have an Xbox 360 in every room. They really do hurt, and then pain is real.
And yet, it is not deserving of sympathy.
It is you who does not have empathy, because while you are shedding tears for someone will be fine, you are devaluing those who really need compassion.
Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #143
148. I'm not so sure about that.
My family is comparable to his and I would develop a bleeding ulcer if I had to deal with a $3,100 mortgage.
No one should ever want someone else's problems. They know not for what they ask.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #148
163. I wouldn't ever be dealing with that problem.
Why on Earth would anyone have a $3,100 mortgage to begin with? Can we say conspicuous over-consumption? My god. No one on Earth needs that much house. I'd gladly have this problem, so I could sell the McMansion, get a house with a $500 mortgage, and use the other $2,600 on something worthwhile and non-obscene.
Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #163
171. You might actually be unable to sell McMansion...
The situation is not remotely as easy as you suggest. Very possibly the housing values have declined below the combined value of the two mortgages.
You do realize a McMansion in Alabama can easily be a 900 square foot 3 bedroom 1 bath house in California.
Honestly, your ignorance, simplistic views of home ownership and judgmentalism is disheartening.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #171
182. Meh, wahetevr
You're an apologist for wealth. Meh, nothing new there. DU is drowning in them.
Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #182
213. Bwaahaaa!!!!!!!!! An apologist for wealth?
Oh if you only knew. Thanks for the laugh though.
Midlodemocrat (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #213
249. Darling. Can I tell you something?
You are trying to talk sense into someone who is a total hater of anyone that has been able to make even $1 more than them over the course of the year. It's disgusting. It's not progressive. And it's not worthy of our time or our arguments.
People on this site never take location into account when discussing mortgages, which I find fascinating. And I also find the absolute height of ignorance. Do some research. Find out what the property taxes are. Find out what the homeowner's insurance is.
And then? And only then are you able to lecture someone on why they shouldn't commute 2 hours each way for their job which barely covers the bills.
****ing disgusting. The ignorance here is ****ing staggering.
Not you, sweetie. I wuvs you.
Pacifist Patriot (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #249
258. No harm in trying I suppose.
And I have to agree. The ignorance here is indeed staggering. No concept whatsoever of cost of living variances and market appraisal v. loan value certainly leads one to assume the conversation is being held with someone who has never been in a position to aquire property. And then to find out that property ownership is somehow elitist. Yikes!
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-04-10 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #249
278. Yeah, dippy.
Go ahead and use the conservative argument that people who criticize wealth are just jealous of anyone who has more than they do. Hannity would be proud.
It's not my fault that wealthy people are duped, brainwashed, and indoctrinated into pursuing money only to find that they can be deprived of their status symbols and merit badges at the whim of their capitalist slave-masters. It's not my fault anyone on Earth is duped/brainwashed/indoctrinated sufficiently to commute 4 hours a day just to be exploited by an employer, much less 2 minutes. It's not my fault anyone is duped/brainwashed/indoctrinated enough to get themselves on the hook for a $3,100 a month mortgage on a McMansion. None of that is my fault, because I've been advocating against all of it vehemently for years.
For all those reasons and more, your conventional consumerist-excusing definition of "progressive" is of less interest to me than the atomic formula that causes paint to dry.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #184
187. Compassion is for those who need it.
Such as the poor. 86k a year ain't poor.
The OP will be just fine.
cap (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-04-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #187
285. $86K in many areas of CA is lower middle class...
it would be a fortune in the hills of Alabama. If you work part-time in Walmart in CA you make more than part-time in Walmart in Alabama.
Midlodemocrat (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-04-10 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #285
287. Exactly.
$3000 a month for a mortgage in AL would indeed be for a McMansion. In parts of VA? It would barely cover the rent on a decent condo.
The ignorance here is staggering, absolutely staggering.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-04-10 05:58 AM
Response to Reply #219
279. Heh... case in point
Edited on Thu Feb-04-10 06:03 AM by Naturyl
How does it not make sense that someone whose situation is actually bad wouldn't want to trade places with someone whose situation isn't?
Can't you folks understand that sympathy and empathy are for people who actually have significant problems?
By far the #1 thing wrong with the Democratic Party today is that there are too many people who have money, and too many brainwashed sympathizers who don't have money, but who defend the wealthy class because that is what American culture has indoctrinated them to do. It is the single solitary biggest reason the Democratic party is striking out year after year and the right wing is taking over this country.
Repeat after me: the wealthy are our enemies. If you don't understand that, ask yourself why. Democrats 50 years ago did.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #173
186. Sell all the consumerist McRubbish, pay down the debts, and live modestly
Modest living on 86k would free up about 60k for charity and social work.
LOL yeah right, you are Mother Teresa.
Naturyl (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-04-10 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #238
280. $86k is 10 times our gross family income
Edited on Thu Feb-04-10 06:19 AM by Naturyl
And yet, most of these people have the nerve to admonish me and say "tsk tsk tsk" for offering the view that the OP will be fine.
Where's my compassion? It's reserved for the kids in Africa, India, and Haiti who make a tenth of what I do and are dying by thousands every day, covered in flies and their own filth.
As much as I would like it to be otherwise, empathy is limited resource, because human energy is limited. There are real problems in this world that need our attention, rather than world's smallest fiddle stories about rich people losing their McMansions.
Last month, on the 10th (with 21 days to go in the month), I had exactly $1.00 left on my SSI debit card. I made a special trip to the store to donate that last dollar to Haiti. While a single dollar really isn't shit in the big picture, I bet it's more than the McMansion owners gave, proportionally. And even if it it isn't, it doesn't change the fact that people are whining about having wasted thousands every month on the BS status-symbol "American Dream" and losing it, when they could have been saving a hundred lives a month the time. Forgive me if I feel compelled, as a true progressive and a person of conscience, to say "boo-hoo."
Just once, I want to hear someone moaning that they can no longer pay their starving child sponsorship accounts. Have never seen it a single time in America and I doubt I ever will.
LIAR
juno jones (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
170. I am sorry to hear this.
I lost my house a couple of years ago at the start of all of this.
It's sad to see how many people blame the victims of the predation of banks and lenders. But then, I suppose they need something to boster their fragile egos against the knowledge that this is in fact aimed at us all. What remains is most of us were good little boys and girls who played the game as we were supposed to not realizing that there is some pretty bent rules buried down in the playbook to be used against us when the time is right.
Research every legal avenue you can, stall them, ask for the note to be produced, stay as long as you can, even a talk with lawyer might give you some insight. It sounds like you have some pretty good documentation, they might back down before a legal challenge, if you were to go that route.
Good luck. I know it is no consolation, but you are not alone out there.
DollyM (580 posts) Wed Feb-03-10 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
267. my heart broke as I read your letter . . .
All I can do is say I'm sorry . . . it is hard giving up your dreams. We had to downsize when we moved 10 years ago to a double wide trailor but I am glad we did. Our housepayment is $300.00 a month so we will survive. The downside to that is, we only earned $3000.00 in income last year! There are just very few jobs here and with our age, it is even harder to find something. My 80 year old mother helps us out quite a bit, if it were not for her, we would be homeless. Still, that is not something that we can do forever or even want to do, it hurts me deeply to accept help from a parent that I expected to be helping instead at this point in my life.
I know you are hurt and angry, I was when we had to give up our dream house, a 2 story colonial we had just remodled. But you do what you have to do and really, in the end, it is all just stuff. When you can see past this, you will hug your family a little tighter and realize that the people who love you and that you love make you a very wealthy person. I know it hurts now, but you will get through it. They can take your house but they can't take away the people that love you.
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It would be fun to throw in there that all the high cost of living places are also the high taxed liberal ones.
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I have a problem with the natural primitive's story.
(As an aside, the natural primitive is a Caucasian version of the bobbling primitive.)
The natural primitive describes a "gross income" of circa $8,600 a year.
The natural primitive alleges to be on the social security disability gravy train.
I'm wondering if the circa $8,600 is what the wife earns working.
Which means the natural primitive hasn't included his own "income," from the gravy train.
And so I suspect the natural primitive is more affluent than the natural primitive's letting on.
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Midlodemocrat (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #213
249. Darling. Can I tell you something?
You are trying to talk sense into someone who is a total hater of anyone that has been able to make even $1 more than them over the course of the year. It's disgusting. It's not progressive. And it's not worthy of our time or our arguments.
That describes every single DUmmie to a tee.
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This one got my attention . . .
earth mom (1000+ posts) Wed Feb-03-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #134
145. This has EVERYTHING to do with Obama. He has done everything to help the banksters
and very little to help the MAJORITY of the people.
If Obama had put all those trillions he gave to the banksters into Green Technology and Green Jobs, I'd bet the economy would be almost back on track by now!
The only think that Obama is making green is all of you DUers--with envy.
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I have a problem with the natural primitive's story.
(As an aside, the natural primitive is a Caucasian version of the bobbling primitive.)
The natural primitive describes a "gross income" of circa $8,600 a year.
The natural primitive alleges to be on the social security disability gravy train.
I'm wondering if the circa $8,600 is what the wife earns working.
Which means the natural primitive hasn't included his own "income," from the gravy train.
And so I suspect the natural primitive is more affluent than the natural primitive's letting on.
Maybe the $8600 is the SSI amount.
Isn't SSI tax free money?
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Maybe the $8600 is the SSI amount.
Isn't SSI tax free money?
I'm assuming the amount the natural primitive gets, on the gravy train, is little enough to be non-taxable.
See, the natural primitive was very careful to use the word "gross" in "gross income," leading one to suspect someone in the household is on a payroll somewhere, where taxes, social security, and medicare are deducted.
I'm not 100% sure, but I bet the natural primitive's wife works, and that's the income to which the natural primitive is referring.
So it's reasonable to assume the natural primitive is circa twice as affluent as he claims to be.
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I've been thinking about this thread a lot tonight.
I try really hard to not think too much about what I sometimes have to do ....only because if I dwell on it...I start feeling responsible that I must help these individuals.
While I often will try to help them find a place to live...that's not my job and though I recognize it certainly is not my fault that they are in this situation....I still feel rotten because I am the one that has to tell them.
It never gets easy to look someone in the face and tell them they have to get out of their home.
I used to work for a collection agency decades ago. Sometimes it was heartbreaking because there were those who had truly worked hard and fallen on hard times. The vast majority, though, were deadbeats with a ready excuse. Losing a house (even when you brought it on yourself) is harder than being sent to a collection agency for an unpaid medical bill. If you didn't do what you did then the rest of us would have to absorb the blow.
Cindie
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Last month, on the 10th (with 21 days to go in the month), I had exactly $1.00 left on my SSI debit card. I made a special trip to the store to donate that last dollar to Haiti.
Hahahaha...so this effin' Dummie is trying to brag about giving his last dollar to a charity when it's actually the taxpayer's dollar.
Forgive me Lord for preaching, but maybe this Dummie should read his Bible in regards to bragging about charitable giving..."when giving alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand is giving." Or something to that effect. :-)
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Hahahaha...so this effin' Dummie is trying to brag about giving his last dollar to a charity when it's actually the taxpayer's dollar.
Forgive me Lord for preaching, but maybe this Dummie should read his Bible in regards to bragging about charitable giving..."when giving alms, let not your left hand know what your right hand is giving." Or something to that effect. :-)
HA So I actually donated that $1. Think I can write that off on my taxes? :p
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HA So I actually donated that $1. Think I can write that off on my taxes? :p
Well, I think everyone here can claim a piece of that dollar, but go right ahead, I won't tell anyone.