The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: BlueStateSaint on January 30, 2010, 02:00:28 PM
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Nice to see someone in the Senate standing up for the US taxpayer . . .
(http://hatch.senate.gov/public/_images/OGH_small.jpg)
Hatch warns of possible partisan 'war' over health reform
Politics » Utah Republican senator says Democrats are all bluster on potential compromise.
By Matt Canham
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 01/29/2010 10:33:44 AM MST
Washington » Sen. Orrin Hatch threatened an all-out political "war" and promised a new high in partisan tensions if Democrats employ a rarely used Senate rule to win approval of their health reform bill.
His provocative statements came a day after President Barack Obama made a plea for bipartisanship and cooperation in his State of the Union address.
It was a plea that Hatch, a Utah Republican who sits on both of the Senate's health committees, said he simply didn't believe.
"They haven't acted in good faith on this, nor do I expect that they will," he said in an interview with The Salt Lake Tribune . "I expect them to go to reconciliation."
Reconciliation is a procedure that would allow Democrats to bypass a potential filibuster and pass a bill with a simple majority vote. The rule was created to allow Congress to pass budgets in extreme circumstances and is rarely ever used. Under normal rules it takes 60 votes to overcome a filibuster, but Democrats now control 59 seats after the unexpected Republican victory in the special election in left-leaning Massachusetts last week.
The article continues at:
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14289613
Two paragraphs after the last one above, Hatch lays out just what it will do to relations within the Senate.
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Nancy Pelosi has made it clear as to the Dems intentions. They are going to do as they please in spite of their constituents' desires. Apparently, the Dems seem to know better than the average American citizen. :whatever:
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I thought Obamacare was pretty much dead for now.
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I thought Obamacare was pretty much dead for now.
I have no doubt it is, but some lost causes put up a big struggle before dying.
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I have no doubt it is, but some lost causes put up a big struggle before dying.
Somewhat like vampires. They refuse to quietly into the night.
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Somewhat like vampires. They refuse to quietly into the night.
Yeah, your analogy's better than mine.
But I have no doubt it's dying, dying, dead.
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They'll probably end up watering it down to get a few more votes for it then sneaking in the other stuff they wanted by hiding it in future unrelated bills.
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I am not so sure it is dead. These ultra left wing liberals are hell bent on pushing it thru.
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I am not so sure it is dead. These ultra left wing liberals are hell bent on pushing it thru.
Oh but, sir, since when has a dead horse persuaded liberals not to push it?
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Have they seated Scott Brown yet? Why is that other guy still voting illegally??
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I hope he means it, and isn't just talking tough as a form of photo-op.
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I hope he means it, and isn't just talking tough as a form of photo-op.
It is more likely that Brown would vote for it rather than Hatch. It would political suicide for Hatch coming from such a conservative state. On the other hand, Brown has 6 years before he has to face the voters again. The cockroaches in the Obama administration are going to offer him the moon and the stars (bribes) for his vote.
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It is more likely that Brown would vote for it rather than Hatch. It would political suicide for Hatch coming from such a conservative state. On the other hand, Brown has 6 years before he has to face the voters again. The cockroaches in the Obama administration are going to offer him the moon and the stars (bribes) for his vote.
Hi,
Several things.
I think Brown serves the remainder of Kennedy's term which means he will be up for election in 2012. He campaigned against the bill and got elected, sure cannot see him voting for it unless it really get modified by a whole lot.
As far as if the health care bill will pass....we went to see the Beck/O'Reilly show Friday night in Tampa. O'Reily thinks they will pass a small health care bill just to save face. Beck thinks they will shove the entire bill down the throats of the American people. Recall that Pelosi recently said that she does not have the votes in the house to get it done.
Now Limbaugh said this week if they use reconciliation it would be almost a death blow to the democrat party because Americans would be furious, it would just reinforce that it was a power grab and they have stop listening to the people. He went so far as to say it would cost them both the house and senate if they tried to pass it by cramming it down our throats.
My personal opinion is the closer we get to the election the less chance it has of passing. I can also suggest that on 8/28 there is going to be a Rally with Glenn Beck in Washington. If the bill is crammed down it will likely add 50% or more infuriated Americans to that crowd. My wife and I are going, already have hotel reservations.
regards,
5412
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Hi,
Several things.
I think Brown serves the remainder of Kennedy's term which means he will be up for election in 2012. He campaigned against the bill and got elected, sure cannot see him voting for it unless it really get modified by a whole lot.
As far as if the health care bill will pass....we went to see the Beck/O'Reilly show Friday night in Tampa. O'Reily thinks they will pass a small health care bill just to save face. Beck thinks they will shove the entire bill down the throats of the American people. Recall that Pelosi recently said that she does not have the votes in the house to get it done.
Now Limbaugh said this week if they use reconciliation it would be almost a death blow to the democrat party because Americans would be furious, it would just reinforce that it was a power grab and they have stop listening to the people. He went so far as to say it would cost them both the house and senate if they tried to pass it by cramming it down our throats.
My personal opinion is the closer we get to the election the less chance it has of passing. I can also suggest that on 8/28 there is going to be a Rally with Glenn Beck in Washington. If the bill is crammed down it will likely add 50% or more infuriated Americans to that crowd. My wife and I are going, already have hotel reservations.
regards,
5412
Must have been my wishfull thinking that Brown would have 6 years left. I am hoping that no bill gets passed this year. Let the Democrats try to label the Repubs the party of NO. That crap will not work; so let Obama and the D. dig their own grave. Voters are more concerned with jobs and the economy rather than health care.
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Then why was Brown not seated yet?
Why is a non-Senator casting votes? Like to increase the debt ceiling?
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Then why was Brown not seated yet?
Why is a non-Senator casting votes? Like to increase the debt ceiling?
Hi,
I think he will be seated this week. They would know better than to play games. As soon as the paperwork and certification arrives he should be sworn in.
regards,
5412
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My take is that they want to codify something any way they can so they can add to it later.
Even if the balance of power flipped in Congress this fall most of those pushing this are probably safe in their seats.
Once it is on the books it will be very hard to get rid of it and the hope the dems have is that sooner not later more of the public will be dependent on gov for health care.
Instant campaign issue plus the crappier it starts the more of a "demand" to "fix" it leading to deeper and deeper government entrenchment.
It is a sad and scary scene we are watching unfold.
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By Massachusetts law. Kirk or whatever his name is, is no longer the senator from Massachusetts. His votes are illegal and should be null and void.
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My take is that they want to codify something any way they can so they can add to it later.
Even if the balance of power flipped in Congress this fall most of those pushing this are probably safe in their seats.
Once it is on the books it will be very hard to get rid of it and the hope the dems have is that sooner not later more of the public will be dependent on gov for health care.
Instant campaign issue plus the crappier it starts the more of a "demand" to "fix" it leading to deeper and deeper government entrenchment.
It is a sad and scary scene we are watching unfold.
Carl, I tend to think that undoing this will be far easier than a lot of people think. I don't think that the Obamessiah is going to change course in 2011, even if he loses the House and Senate (looking more and more likely every day). He will be up for re-election in 2012, without having changed course like the Clenis did in 1995, and 24 (maybe 23 now) of the 33 Senate seats up for re-election will be Democrat-held. If Obama's policies are as unpopular as they seem that they will be by then, the Republicans getting a fillibuster-proof majority is going to be fairly easy. Remember that the Dems aren't even having this monstrosity's benefits kick in until 2014, but the taxes start immediately. So, there will be three years of money hemmoraging out of the pockets of ordinary Americans to pay for this thing--and it won't kick in for another three years.
As long as the Republicans don't overreach then (never a sure thing), the Dems' abuse of the American taxpayer will end in 2013, and possibly stay that way for the rest of our lives. Sounds rosy, but I've got this feeling that that is what we're going to see. Unless the Dems, and their SEIU/ACORN allies try to start something with ordinary Americans, in spite for their election losses. Then, all bets are off, and the Tree of Liberty will be well and truly "watered."
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Obama cannot change , as he sees himself as the center of all and the rest of us as there to serve him. We are Roger Rabbit figuers tto him, to serve andamuse. Otherwise his behavior would not be so Nero like. "Chat us up" and we're good for his servace for another few months, again as necessary, another chat up and BINGO, his cartoons vote him a second term. Even if we pitch him out after 4, as we should, he'll rationalize it in his fantesy world so it is someone else's fault. The nature of malignent narcissism.
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I thought Obamacare was pretty much dead for now.
uh... not even fawking close. No where near dead.
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BSS, getting a Senate majority will be tough enough, getting a filibuster-proof one on our side would be mathematically impossible in 2010 and virtually impossible by 2012. It would involve getting 19 more turnovers with 100% retention of existing seats, I'm not sure but I don't think there are even 19 Dems running this time (And Brown would be part of the 100% retention, not one of the 19 more needed turnovers). That's require not only a Lotto-like winning streak in one election cycle, but continuing it into the next one two years later, because only one third of the Senate stands for re-election in each cycle.
Undoing anything once it is passed is going to be damned near impossible. Even with 60 seats on our side, a few of those 60 are shaky on any hard-ball tactics and would not be reliable, especially over the three years of morphing the law would go through before it even became mathematically possible to get to the magic number.
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BSS, getting a Senate majority will be tough enough, getting a filibuster-proof one on our side would be mathematically impossible in 2010 and virtually impossible by 2012. It would involve getting 19 more turnovers with 100% retention of existing seats, I'm not sure but I don't think there are even 19 Dems running this time (And Brown would be part of the 100% retention, not one of the 19 more needed turnovers). That's require not only a Lotto-like winning streak in one election cycle, but continuing it into the next one two years later, because only one third of the Senate stands for re-election in each cycle.
Undoing anything once it is passed is going to be damned near impossible. Even with 60 seats on our side, a few of those 60 are shaky on any hard-ball tactics and would not be reliable, especially over the three years of morphing the law would go through before it even became mathematically possible to get to the magic number.
DAT, we will see. It will be tough. But, the mood of the Tea Partiers and the independents/moderates who were sold a bill of goods is going to get bigger if this thing actually comes close to passage. I'd expect some blood to be spilled over this. I don't want that, but I expect that.
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DAT, we will see. It will be tough. But, the mood of the Tea Partiers and the independents/moderates who were sold a bill of goods is going to get bigger if this thing actually comes close to passage. I'd expect some blood to be spilled over this. I don't want that, but I expect that.
I don't think that will happen. Part of me wants it to, because I think we need something dramatic to get attention (think of civil war)... but I just don't think people have the backbone necessary to actually shed real blood. We're not that type of country anymore - we're kind of wusses now.
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I don't think that will happen. Part of me wants it to, because I think we need something dramatic to get attention (think of civil war)...but I just don't think people have the backbone necessary to actually shed real blood. We're not that type of country anymore - we're kind of wusses now.
Have you considered the impact that would have on the immediate and short term living standard of pretty much all Americans ?
You won't find someone pure enough for your standards that ever has a bats fart in hell chance of being elected so eventually you will have to make some compromises at least in the short term or be happy sitting on the sidelines banging your sippy cup.
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The Obama budget, in 8 short years, will leave the debt INTEREST PAYMENTS totalling AS MUCH OR MORE than the DEFENSE BUDGET!!!!!! Obama is delusional, mad, irrational , living in a different reality if he honestly thinks that his program will return America to prosperity!!!!! He's "augered in" if he honestly thinks so! This budget is treason , and cannot be passed. We must absolutly must resist it and should support a
CLEAN SWEEP of existing politicians out of office!
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Have you considered the impact that would have on the immediate and short term living standard of pretty much all Americans ?
You won't find someone pure enough for your standards that ever has a bats fart in hell chance of being elected so eventually you will have to make some compromises at least in the short term or be happy sitting on the sidelines banging your sippy cup.
National bankruptcy is the other alternative
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Have you considered the impact that would have on the immediate and short term living standard of pretty much all Americans ?
You won't find someone pure enough for your standards that ever has a bats fart in hell chance of being elected so eventually you will have to make some compromises at least in the short term or be happy sitting on the sidelines banging your sippy cup.
What's with the personal attacks? Have no ability to discuss or debate or just an ass? Exactly what does your diatribe have to do with my response to potential blood shed? Oh... not a damned thing. :whatever: :whatever:
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What's with the personal attacks? Have no ability to discuss or debate or just an ass? Exactly what does your diatribe have to do with my response to potential blood shed? Oh... not a damned thing. :whatever: :whatever:
You said :
I don't think that will happen. Part of me wants it to, because I think we need something dramatic to get attention (think of civil war)... but I just don't think people have the backbone necessary to actually shed real blood. We're not that type of country anymore - we're kind of wusses now.
Was I incorrect in my impression that you were advocating a civil war ?
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You said :
Was I incorrect in my impression that you were advocating a civil war ?
Yeah... that's right. Get out your guns and attack your neighbors. Learn to read. I said blood will not be shed, even though "PART OF ME" thinks we need something similar to ge attention. It's a ****ing analogy. Get a clue. And BTW - if you're more concerned about short term economic issues than long term freedom, then I might just as well say you're endorsing all of the propping up the gov't is doing... :whatever:
Notice that you didn't answer my question, which is typical of people who have no leg to stand on.
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Yeah... that's right. Get out your guns and attack your neighbors. Learn to read. I said blood will not be shed, even though "PART OF ME" thinks we need something similar to ge attention. It's a ****ing analogy. Get a clue. And BTW - if you're more concerned about short term economic issues than long term freedom, then I might just as well say you're endorsing all of the propping up the gov't is doing... :whatever:
Notice that you didn't answer my question, which is typical of people who have no leg to stand on.
Oh you asked a question ?
I just saw a baseless accusation that really wasn't worth responding to.
Pretty defensive aren't you.
As to the learn to read part - you SAID "think civil war" when discussing doing something to draw attention - then claiming that people wouldn't have the backbone because they are "kind of wusses now".
Pretty clear cut if you ask me. However if you want to expand on your "analogy" feel free.
For the "endorsing all of the propping up government is doing" - I don't endorse all of it, and if those short term economic issues aren't addressed in some manner there will be a lot of people hurting because of it.
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Look into hooked on phonics.. might help you to read a bit better. I clearly asked you "what's with the personal attacks?" That's called a question. Perhaps I typed too fast for you? :whatever:
Go ahead and latch onto the civil war comment. And then remember WHY the civil war was actually fought. Current events bear a bit of resemblence to what pushed the south over the edge last time.
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Metafore seems lost on some...... :evillaugh:
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Lets shoot the pedophiles in this country and then we can think the others
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Look into hooked on phonics.. might help you to read a bit better. I clearly asked you "what's with the personal attacks?" That's called a question. Perhaps I typed too fast for you? :whatever:
Go ahead and latch onto the civil war comment. And then remember WHY the civil war was actually fought. Current events bear a bit of resemblence to what pushed the south over the edge last time.
If you think that was a personal attack then you are the one that needs to refresh your basic English comprehension skills.
Now given you've made several personal attacks on ME in multiple posts on this thread and are displaying an insufferable, overbearing, arrogant attitude you might wanna shut your ****in pie hole right about now. Ya dig.
You sound just like a DU user.