The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: kenth on January 24, 2010, 09:28:25 PM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4241163
First off, a news post about Haiti.
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Jan-24-10 09:40 PM
Original message
After Amputations, Victims With No Place to Go Fill Haiti’s Hospitals
Source: The New York Times
By RAY RIVERA
Published: January 24, 2010
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti — In a tent serving as an acute-care ward on the grounds of this city’s biggest hospital, Jocelin François was sitting up in bed when a nurse went by, barking at him in French. Mr. François, whose left leg was amputated nearly to his knee after the earthquake on Jan. 12, threw out his arms and fell back on the mattress.
“She said I have to go home,†Mr. François, 26, said. “I don’t want to leave until I can walk. I am weak. I have no place to go.â€
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/world/americas/25amputee.html
Babbling sister is just sure she is suffering as much as the Haitians.
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sun Jan-24-10 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Weren't they in the same situation as uninsured Americans before
the earthquake?
They're suffering? Let's just kill 'em, eh AG?
AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Jan-24-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. We need non-stigmatized, voluntary euthanasia for all who want it, worldwide.
Edited on Sun Jan-24-10 10:16 PM by AlienGirl
Okay, hard truth time. If you were an impoverished Haitian without marketable skills other than physical labor, would you rather survive an amputation and lose your sole source of income, putting the stress of caring for you on your family--those who are still alive, anyway--knowing that neither you nor they can afford to pay for prosthetics and painkillers and other follow-up care; or would you rather choose a painless and certain death and spare yourself and your family the pain and difficulty? I know I would choose to be put down.
There are lives that reach a point of hopelessness, where the person has to be allowed to make the decision to cut their losses and go. It is not that these lives are without value--but whatever value they have is not enough to impel the world to spend resources to keep them alive or healthy. Please, let those of us who are in that position go peacefully and painlessly.
No one is stopping you AG.
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Are there really people this heartless? :o AlienGirl, have you considered that rather than campaigning for these people to have the right to kill themselves, you could pick yourself up and help teach them a marketable skill? You could donate to organizations that help people learn trades, you could contribute to organizations that provide medical care like Doctors without Borders.
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Jaysus!!
It is not that these lives are without value--but whatever value they have is not enough to impel the world to spend resources to keep them alive or healthy. Please, let those of us who are in that position go peacefully and painlessly.
By those standards, half of the DUmp monkeys should be euthanized. They're worthless, and provide nothing but a drain on society. That's from their own admissions.
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Please tell me someone got a screencap of that before it goes down the memory hole.
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Classic socialist doctrine. Read some of the things both written and spoken by George Bernard Shaw. Part of Marxism is the belief that the weak need to be disposed in order that the strong might have enough.
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Classic socialist doctrine. Read some of the things both written and spoken by George Bernard Shaw. Part of Marxism is the belief that the week need to be disposed in order that the strong might have enough.
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Um, isn't that what Lord Zero was saying when he said that maybe an old person would be given a pill instead of needed surgery?
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Um, isn't that what Lord Zero was saying when he said that maybe an old person would be given a pill instead of needed surgery?
Exactly. Actually, DUmmy AlienGirl's approach is more compassionate. She implies the useless person could decide on euthanasia. The jug-eared Kenyan's plan would leave the decision to his death panels.
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If America were DUmmieland Haiti would be getting little to no help right now.
In any real TSHTF event the hurt would be triaged, save the ones that have the most chance to live. If there is even that much capacity to bring help after a catastrophe.
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Classic socialist doctrine. Read some of the things both written and spoken by George Bernard Shaw. Part of Marxism is the belief that the week need to be disposed in order that the strong might have enough.
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I saw Beck's special. Pretty chilling, ain't it?
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Mr. François, whose left leg was amputated nearly to his knee after the earthquake on Jan. 12, threw out his arms and fell back on the mattress.
Sheesh, kill the guy because he lost part of a leg? WTF? Give him some crutches. Heartless bastards.
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Pure, evil eugenics. Yes, I saw Beck's special. Absolutely chilling. Some of those DUmmies have the monsters from that documentary as their avatars. I'd love to see a mole question them on that. For example, Che saying that black people are indolent, and spend all their money on frivolous things and drink.
And yes, George Bernard Shaw would off all the little goons, with his "humane" gas.
This DUmmie is aptly named.
buzzard (1000+ posts) Mon Jan-25-10 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. I unfortunately agree with you, I have been thinking about this for a long time, it will be nearly
impossible to survive for many Haitians without limbs. I don't have faith in God or government to solve this untenable position so if it was me I would choose death. It may be the "easy way out for some" but I see no need to suffer for years with little hope of "life".
Be my guest.
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Exactly. Actually, DUmmy AlienGirl's approach is more compassionate. She implies the useless person could decide on euthanasia. The jug-eared Kenyan's plan would leave the decision to his death panels.
I'd agree about that if it weren't for her statement, "It is not that these lives are without value--but whatever value they have is not enough to impel the world to spend resources to keep them alive or healthy." She is saying that they aren't worth our help. A Haitian with an amputation is worth so much less than, say, an alien girl with amputations. Of all the problems she has had, she's still here. She hasn't found herself unworthy of the world's resources yet.
Of course, she tries to blunt that statement by including herself at that end, as if she's asking for that choice. But, that's why I commented that no one was stopping her. She pretends to want that choice for herself as cover for being jealous of the money flowing to Haiti right now. They need to die to save resources for the more worthy, such as herself.
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Jeezus.
And we're the racist ones?
I don't know where to begin...
After World War II America was the undisputed champion of the world. For a while everyone loved us, even our former enemies. But soon people began to resent us due to our superior attitudes. We Americans thought that was unjustified and ungrateful. In one particular country, the unrest was beginning to have strategic implications during that delicate time of detente. Dr. Humphrey's job was to find out what the problem was and solve it.
The basic problem was that the Americans working in that poor ally country thought that the local people were smelly, ignorant, violent, dishonest and lazy and let them know it. No matter what he did, Dr. Humphrey couldn't stop the negative talk; partially because some of it was true! As a result, though, the local people wanted the Americans to go home.
One day, as a diversion, Humphrey decided to go hunting for wild boar with some people from the American embassy. They took a truck from the motor pool and headed out to the boondocks, stopping at a village to hire some local men to beat the brush and act as guides.
This village was very poor. The huts were made of mud and there was no electricity or running water. The streets were unpaved dirt and the whole village smelled. Flies abounded. The men looked surly and wore dirty clothes. The women covered their faces, and the children had runny noses and were dressed in rags.
It wasn't long before one American in the truck said, "This place stinks." Another said, "These people live just like animals." Finally, a young air force man said, "Yeah, they got nothin' to live for; they may as well be dead."
What could you say? It seemed true enough.
But just then, an old sergeant in the truck spoke up. He was the quiet type who never said much. In fact, except for his uniform, he kind of reminded you of one of the tough men in the village. He looked at the young airman and said, "You think they got nothin' to live for, do you? Well, if you are so sure, why don't you just take my knife, jump down off the back of this truck, and go try to kill one of them?"
There was dead silence in the truck.
Humphrey was amazed. It was the first time that anyone had said anything that had actually silenced the negative talk about these local people. The sergeant went on to say, "I don't know either why they value their lives so much. Maybe it's those snotty nosed kids, or the women in the pantaloons. But whatever it is, they care about their lives and the lives of their loved ones, same as we Americans do. And if we don't stop talking bad about them, they will kick us out of this country!"
Humphrey asked him what we Americans, with all our wealth, could do to prove our belief in the peasants' equality despite their destitution? The Tennessee sergeant answered easily, "You got to be able to look them in the face and let them know, just with your eyes, that you know they are men who hurt like we do, and hope like we do, and want for their kids just like we all do. It is that way or we lose."
The guy who trained me in martial arts was a friend of Robert Humphrey. This story has stuck with me.
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"Weren't they in the same situation as uninsured Americans before the earthquake", give me a break :whatever:
No person here is turned away from an emergency room in an American hospital, so they can just shut it.
And I'd like to know WHERE and WHO all these "uninsured Americans" are.
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"Weren't they in the same situation as uninsured Americans before the earthquake", give me a break :whatever:
No person here is turned away from an emergency room in an American hospital, so they can just shut it.
And I'd like to know WHERE and WHO all these "uninsured Americans" are.
They were in the same situation that Americans will be in if the leftists get their utopia.
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They were in the same situation that Americans will be in if the leftists get their utopia.
:clap:
'Xactly.
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Dang, ol' Aliengirl isn't even trying to sound rational today.
:mental:
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Wow. I think Aliengirl should be given the Margaret Sanger Humanitarian Award.
Cindie
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I'd be willing to wager that the majority of those new amputees in Haiti are worht more (read "better people") than the majority of the DUmp.
Given the opportunities those at the DUmp had and squandered, those Haitians would have flourished.
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And I'd like to know WHERE and WHO all these "uninsured Americans" are.
I got counted in last years numbers because I was without insurance for one day where my coverage ended and I went on hubby's plan. According to those who like to twist the numbers I was an uninsured American.
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I at least donated too get water to the Hatains. That above all else they need as well as medical equipment. Looks like the DUmmies couldn't even part with their cheeto money long enough to step away from their computers.
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"Weren't they in the same situation as uninsured Americans before the earthquake", give me a break :whatever:
No person here is turned away from an emergency room in an American hospital, so they can just shut it.
And I'd like to know WHERE and WHO all these "uninsured Americans" are.
Sometimes you read a post and pray you could reach across the net............and slap the shit out of an idiot!
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I got counted in last years numbers because I was without insurance for one day where my coverage ended and I went on hubby's plan. According to those who like to twist the numbers I was an uninsured American.
I am an uninsured American.
I go to the same doctor that I did when I had insurance.
Take the same meds that I did when I had insurance.
The difference?
I write a check for my doctor bill - $72. When I had insurance, my co-pay was $35.
I write a check for my Rx's. It's double what it was when I had insurance, so it's $30 instead of $15, except for one which is $50 more.
And I'm not having $450+ auto withdrawn for health insurance every month.
I am very limited in choices for insurance, as I have to get my own insurance.....and I'm not paying the amount of money I was and still have a $5000.....yes that is Five Thousand.....deductible.
I want health care reform ....
I want tort reform.....and I want insurance companies to be able to sell across state lines....and no pre-existing conditions.
I don't want to pay for other people's health problems....I've already done that. I paid out the wahzoo....and only saw the doctor once or twice a year....I was paying for all the others in the statewide "group".... :(
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I must add this link from the DUmp about how horrible the media, hence the U.S. is treating Haiti and Haitians: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x9531
and point out this by the HillBuzz foe:
TheBigotBasher Tue Jan-26-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. We have had it ere even on teh shitting BBC.
A guy was carrying a hacksaw because he had food and the representation of it just made me disgusted.
People in an absolute crisis situation will do anything to survive. It is basic survival instinct.
I have never seen such a disgusting display of pure unadulterated racism ever. I have no desire to reshow the pictures carried by the Daily Mail Group. I know exactly what their agenda is.
This is a tragedy leaving people to die in the streets, of a Country that almost every other Country, including the US, raped and destroyed even before the earthquake hit it.
I am sorry, it may piss some Americans off, but this catastrophe was exasperated (sic) by the US destroying the Country for Political reasons.
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I must add this link from the DUmp about how horrible the media, hence the U.S. is treating Haiti and Haitians: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x9531
and point out this by the HillBuzz foe:
I am sorry, it may piss some Americans off, but this catastrophe was exasperated (sic) by the US destroying the Country for Political reasons.
when did the US destroy Haiti?
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when did the US destroy Haiti?
What has ever been there to destroy?
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What has ever been there to destroy?
That would be my question?
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I must add this link from the DUmp about how horrible the media, hence the U.S. is treating Haiti and Haitians: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x9531
and point out this by the HillBuzz foe:
TheBigotBasher Tue Jan-26-10 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. We have had it ere even on teh shitting BBC.
A guy was carrying a hacksaw because he had food and the representation of it just made me disgusted.
People in an absolute crisis situation will do anything to survive. It is basic survival instinct.
I have never seen such a disgusting display of pure unadulterated racism ever. I have no desire to reshow the pictures carried by the Daily Mail Group. I know exactly what their agenda is.
This is a tragedy leaving people to die in the streets, of a Country that almost every other Country, including the US, raped and destroyed even before the earthquake hit it.
I am sorry, it may piss some Americans off, but this catastrophe was exasperated (sic) by the US destroying the Country for Political reasons.
Typical holier than thou Brit! Hey Limey? How do ya think South Africa ended up the way they did? Had nuthin' to do with England tryin' to take over the frikkin' world, did it? You gotta lotta room to talk about destroying nations! India, China, Indonesia........**** You!
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I'm going to be honest here, and maybe I'll go to Hell for saying so, but so be it. I couldn't care less about Haiti. If the Earth opened up, and left nothing but a patch of steaming ocean where that half of the island was, I would just shrug. I haven't given a cent in aid, nor will I.
Maybe I'm biased. I have had quite a bit of interaction with Haitians when I lived in Montreal (there is a reason they had that conference in Montreal, that city seems to hold a larger Haitian population than Haiti itself), and my ex was half Haitian. As a culture and a people, I was left with less than a positive impression.
I won't wish them ill, but I won't go out of my way to cry crocodile tears for them either.
There, I said it.
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I'm going to be honest here, and maybe I'll go to Hell for saying so, but so be it. I couldn't care less about Haiti. If the Earth opened up, and left nothing but a patch of steaming ocean where that half of the island was, I would just shrug. I haven't given a cent in aid, nor will I.
Maybe I'm biased. I have had quite a bit of interaction with Haitians when I lived in Montreal (there is a reason they had that conference in Montreal, that city seems to hold a larger Haitian population than Haiti itself), and my ex was half Haitian. As a culture and a people, I was left with less than a positive impression.
I won't wish them ill, but I won't go out of my way to cry crocodile tears for them either.
There, I said it.
Seems to me, they have brought 90% of their strife on themselves. I ain't gonna give 'em a damn dime either! How many billions of US dollars have they already pissed away?
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I'm going to be honest here, and maybe I'll go to Hell for saying so, but so be it. I couldn't care less about Haiti. If the Earth opened up, and left nothing but a patch of steaming ocean where that half of the island was, I would just shrug. I haven't given a cent in aid, nor will I.
Maybe I'm biased. I have had quite a bit of interaction with Haitians when I lived in Montreal (there is a reason they had that conference in Montreal, that city seems to hold a larger Haitian population than Haiti itself), and my ex was half Haitian. As a culture and a people, I was left with less than a positive impression.
I won't wish them ill, but I won't go out of my way to cry crocodile tears for them either.
There, I said it.
It's one thing to care, and another thing to care effectively.
I think everybody here cares, but given that Haiti seems an especially cursed place--cursed by what, I have no idea--and there's nothing one can do about it, it just seems better to care about places one can do something about.
I really suggest people read a couple of in-depth books of the history of Haiti--my favorite is Elizabeth Abbott's Haiti: The Duvaliers and Their Legacy, which covers more than just the Duvalier era--so as to understand just how extraordinary, how cursed, Haiti is. One would be hard-pressed to find a country more bloodied.