The Conservative Cave

Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Pat on December 21, 2009, 05:56:12 AM

Title: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Pat on December 21, 2009, 05:56:12 AM
The Senate took a giant step toward passing its sweeping healthcare bill early today, uniting fractious Democrats after months of debate over President Obama's promise to reduce the ranks of the uninsured.

Breaking the Republican filibuster required the votes of all 60 members of the Democratic caucus. The cloture motion, which passed 60 to 40, capped months of work by Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who personally negotiated compromises on big issues such as abortion and taxes, as well as parochial deals for key states and industries.

But with final Senate approval of the bill expected this week, Democrats and the White House were moving to shift the focus from their dozens of concessions -- such as jettisoning a government alternative to private health insurance -- toward the momentous changes they said it would bring: providing insurance access to 31 million more Americans, cracking down on insurance practices, and beginning to curb healthcare cost inflation.

Opinion polls indicate that the public's support for the healthcare overhaul is waning. Hoping to reverse that slide, Democrats and the White House are intensifying efforts to reshape public perception of the bill as a glass half full, not half empty.

Two more procedural votes will be needed before the bill comes to a final vote: On Tuesday to close debate over whether to insert the compromise language into the healthcare bill, and on Wednesday to close debate on the bill itself.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-health-senate21-2009dec21,0,1920190.story?page=1


Please read the rules for the Breaking News forum before posting a thread.  Excerpted articles should be no longer than three to five paragraphs -- Chris
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: franksolich on December 21, 2009, 05:58:11 AM
Well, we finally got unanimity from Republicans.

This is wholly a 100% Democrat bill.

Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 06:30:17 AM
Well, we finally got unanimity from Republicans.

This is wholly a 100% Democrat bill.



Hopefully now that it is all but a done deal the public will educate themselves as to what a disaster it is.
This is simple a stop gap intended to destroy over a few years our current healthcare system.
When the states are broke,property taxes have doubled and businesses shut down the middle class will be screaming for a "fix".
Since insurance companies will have been run off there is only one path to follow..single payer.
That is the goal and just remember folks you are owned by who is paying you.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: djones520 on December 21, 2009, 06:57:09 AM
This isn't the final Senate vote folks.  There is still 2 more votes that has to be done.  Republicans are going to be hammering away at this over the next couple of days trying to get someone to flip.

And even if they don't, when the House and Senate try to mesh it, it's a damn good chance that whatever it was that got those few needed will be lost and they'll vote against it's final version.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Pat on December 21, 2009, 06:59:52 AM
And even if they don't, when the House and Senate try to mesh it, it's a damn good chance that whatever it was that got those few needed will be lost and they'll vote against it's final version.

I'm under the impression that the post reconciliation bill only needs 51 votes.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: franksolich on December 21, 2009, 07:03:43 AM
I'm under the impression that the post reconciliation bill only needs 51 votes.

And therein lies the trick that the senior senator from Nebraska is expected to pull.

But this time around, the people of Nebraska won't be deceived.

I fully expect Ben Nelson to vote against the fnal bill, and if he runs again, to campaign on that--"but I voted against it."

However, by his voting to lift the filibuster on the bill, the senior senator made its passage possible, lowering the bar from 60 votes to 51.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Karin on December 21, 2009, 07:23:06 AM
And no offense to our esteemed Nebraskan here, and any Louisianans who may be here, but are these special deals made to senators even constitutional?  Why should the rest of us in the country pay to let Nebraskans have medicaid at a far lower cost in perpetuity?  The whole thing stinks on ice. 
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: franksolich on December 21, 2009, 07:34:48 AM
And no offense to our esteemed Nebraskan here, and any Louisianans who may be here, but are these special deals made to senators even constitutional?  Why should the rest of us in the country pay to let Nebraskans have medicaid at a far lower cost in perpetuity?  The whole thing stinks on ice. 

Of course it stinks, and Nebraskans don't seem to be buying it.

I refer you, madam, to a thread I started this morning, I think in the Politics forum, about Nebraska's "thirty pieces of silver."

Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 09:53:48 AM
And no offense to our esteemed Nebraskan here, and any Louisianans who may be here, but are these special deals made to senators even constitutional?  Why should the rest of us in the country pay to let Nebraskans have medicaid at a far lower cost in perpetuity?  The whole thing stinks on ice. 

Absolutely...this is a form of bribery..I'm not sure it's even legal...
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Chris_ on December 21, 2009, 11:30:09 AM
And no offense to our esteemed Nebraskan here, and any Louisianans who may be here, but are these special deals made to senators even constitutional?  Why should the rest of us in the country pay to let Nebraskans have medicaid at a far lower cost in perpetuity?  The whole thing stinks on ice. 

So can States that have to pay for the special deals actually do anything? Such as with hold tax money from the Federal government?
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 21, 2009, 11:57:44 AM
This isn't the final Senate vote folks.  There is still 2 more votes that has to be done.  Republicans are going to be hammering away at this over the next couple of days trying to get someone to flip.

And even if they don't, when the House and Senate try to mesh it, it's a damn good chance that whatever it was that got those few needed will be lost and they'll vote against it's final version.
This is the biggest fiasco to ever come out of DC. As for me- I am getting the word out to everyone that I know. We THE PEOPLE have to keep the heat on! There is hope for us yet!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: lovemyusadoyou on December 21, 2009, 12:34:43 PM

ARE YOU AN ANT OR A GRASSHOPPER?
The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building
his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The > grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and
laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter,
the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and
demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.
CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
America is stunned by the sharp contrast.
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is
allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film
the group singing, We shall overcome. Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's sake.

President Obama condemns the ant and blames President Bush, President Reagan,
Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight.

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King
that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate
tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the
beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having
nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by
the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.
The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends
finishing up the last bits of the ants food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them
because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.
The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related
incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of
spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and once peaceful,
neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest of the free world with it.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be careful how you vote in 2
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 21, 2009, 12:36:28 PM
Absolutely...this is a form of bribery..I'm not sure it's even legal...

guest on Fox said it would be illegal anywhere but DC.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Karin on December 21, 2009, 12:59:54 PM
On the MSNBC site article on this, there are over 2,000 comments.  Maybe 2 are in support.  The rest are HOWLING.   
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 21, 2009, 01:03:42 PM
On the MSNBC site article on this, there are over 2,000 comments.  Maybe 2 are in support.  The rest are HOWLING.   

that says a lot...  'especially on MSNBC
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 03:21:01 PM
that says a lot...  'especially on MSNBC

 :yeahthat:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Pat on December 21, 2009, 03:23:32 PM
Quote
Please read the rules for the Breaking News forum before posting a thread.  Excerpted articles should be no longer than three to five paragraphs -- Chris
« Last Edit: Today at 08:54:30 am by Chris »    


bleh....on issues of this magnitude. The entire, unedited article should be disseminated to all.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 03:26:40 PM

bleh....on issues of this magnitude. The entire, unedited article should be disseminated to all.

That's why we ask you provide a link to the rest of the story.

That way our members can click it to continue reading.

*tips hat* just a bit of advice from your friendly neighborhood Moderator.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 03:35:44 PM
(http://mysite.verizon.net/resuqbf4/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/PC-Reids-HC.jpg)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 03:50:00 PM
That's why we ask you provide a link to the rest of the story.

That way our members can click it to continue reading.

*tips hat* just a bit of advice from your friendly neighborhood Moderator.

It has to be that way; otherwise, it gives the liberal oppressors grounds to sue us for copyright infringement - Freerepublic just settled a lawsuit against them by, inter alia, WaPo and AP - even just the costs of defending such a suit would in all likelihood kill off the Conservative Cave.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 03:50:29 PM
My commentary on Reid and the Democrats:

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/Others/Reid_effs_America.jpg)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Pat on December 21, 2009, 04:05:19 PM
It has to be that way; otherwise, it gives the liberal oppressors grounds to sue us for copyright infringement - Freerepublic just settled a lawsuit against them by, inter alia, WaPo and AP - even just the costs of defending such a suit would in all likelihood kill off the Conservative Cave.

have fun then. I'm not playing that bull shit game

mod's your welcome to kill off my membership, I'm going back to the gulch.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 04:07:30 PM
have fun then. I'm not playing that bull shit game

mod's your welcome to kill off my membership, I'm going back to the gulch.

Really?  You in the habit of cutting your nose off despite your face?
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2009, 04:11:35 PM
 :whatever:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Mike220 on December 21, 2009, 04:18:48 PM
:whatever:

Following copyright law is a game? Who knew?  :whatever:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 04:19:48 PM
have fun then. I'm not playing that bull shit game

mod's your welcome to kill off my membership, I'm going back to the gulch.

Dude...chill for a sec would ya.
FR which is the biggest political site on the net has posting rules and a list of sites not allowed as they have threatened legal action or took up one.
It isn`t that odd or a personal affront so take a deep breath.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2009, 04:20:22 PM
Following copyright law is a game? Who knew?  :whatever:

We'll send the lawyers over to Pat's house.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 04:25:31 PM
have fun then. I'm not playing that bull shit game

mod's your welcome to kill off my membership, I'm going back to the gulch.

(http://www.showcaseyouth.com/Oh%20the%20Drama%203.jpg)

Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 04:38:30 PM
Just a side thought.

There maybe should be a locked welcome...these are the rulz thread that any sign up is directed to.
Regarding sites that can`t be posted in whole from or linked to.

I know there is a Terms of Service thing but few read those when they register.
Just a suggestion and it could be one that only an admin could add too as need arose.

I didn`t and don`t like the way newbies are treated at FR but that is the result of the growing pains.
Perhaps something similar would be helpful here.







Or the rabbit with a pancake on its head pic. :p
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 04:41:43 PM
I think he was told nicely to just post an excerpt followed by a link....apparently, that correction alone got his panties all twisted....sigh...what happened to the manly men?? :(
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 04:43:15 PM
I think he was told nicely to just post an excerpt followed by a link....apparently, that correction alone got his panties all twisted....sigh...what happened to the manly men?? :(

*ahem* Some of us are still around. :-)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 04:48:09 PM
(http://www.showcaseyouth.com/Oh%20the%20Drama%203.jpg)



Drama - gotta love it!

Back on Topic:  Just my humble reaction on the latest developing HC bill vote:  :puke:  

I had to turn off my t.v. today - just can't take listening ANYMORE.  However, right before I did tune out, I heard "they" may pass the final bill on Christmas Eve night!!!  Unbelievable...
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 04:49:12 PM
I think he was told nicely to just post an excerpt followed by a link....apparently, that correction alone got his panties all twisted....sigh...what happened to the manly men?? :(

I am here! (http://209.85.48.11/13592/198/emo/flirtysmile1.gif)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 04:50:18 PM


I had to turn off my t.v. today - just can't take listening ANYMORE.  However, right before I did tune out, I heard "they" may pass the final bill on Christmas Eve night!!!  Unbelievable...

Yes that is when the final vote is planned.  The Congress of the U.S. is going to give the people of the U.S. a giant lump of coal in their stocking for Christmas of 2009.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Duke Nukum on December 21, 2009, 04:51:39 PM
I called my do-nothing WI senators and asked what they got for their vote.  It amounted to a bunch of gibberish which I asked for the English translation.  It's one thing to be a prostitute and quite another to give the milk away for free.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 04:51:53 PM
*ahem* Some of us are still around. :-)


 :blowkiss:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: TheSarge on December 21, 2009, 04:52:35 PM
I called my do-nothing WI senators and asked what they got for their vote.  It amounted to a bunch of gibberish which I asked for the English translation.  It's one thing to be a prostitute and quite another to give the milk away for free.

Did you ever get a straight answer?

Yeah yeah I know...
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 04:53:13 PM
I called my do-nothing WI senators and asked what they got for their vote.  It amounted to a bunch of gibberish which I asked for the English translation.  It's one thing to be a prostitute and quite another to give the milk away for free.

5412 is right...it's no accident politicians rank lower than used car salesmen in the integrity department.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 04:58:55 PM
Drama - gotta love it!

Back on Topic:  Just my humble reaction on the latest developing HC bill vote:  :puke:  

I had to turn off my t.v. today - just can't take listening ANYMORE.  However, right before I did tune out, I heard "they" may pass the final bill on Christmas Eve night!!!  Unbelievable...

Hopes that no one will think much about it over the long weekend.
What does that tell everyone about this ****ing (please excuse the expletive) thing that it all as to be passed in the middle of a night or on Christmas eve?

If you are proud of this dems then stand up and say so. :censored:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 05:01:24 PM
The democrats ARE everything they wrongly accused Bush of being.


Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 05:02:48 PM
I am here! (http://209.85.48.11/13592/198/emo/flirtysmile1.gif)

LMAO!!  Carl, you go boy...
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 05:04:34 PM
Hopes that no one will think much about it over the long weekend.
What does that tell everyone about this ****ing (please excuse the expletive) thing that it all as to be passed in the middle of a night or on Christmas eve?

If you are proud of this dems then stand up and say so. :censored:

I just spent a depressing 15 minutes talking to an acquaintance who, it turns out, is a raving Democrat and thinks today's vote was the cat's meow.  It was all I could do to keep a civil tongue in my head (I did, thankfully, as she is the mother of one of the girls in my daughter's kindergarten class).
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 05:04:57 PM
The democrats ARE everything they wrongly accused Bush of being.




Amen girlfriend!  That about sums it up.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 05:05:48 PM
I am here! (http://209.85.48.11/13592/198/emo/flirtysmile1.gif)

 :rotf:

omg..that smiley is hilarous! :lmao:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 05:07:28 PM
I just spent a depressing 15 minutes talking to an acquaintance who, it turns out, is a raving Democrat and thinks today's vote was the cat's meow.  It was all I could do to keep a civil tongue in my head (I did, thankfully, as she is the mother of one of the girls in my daughter's kindergarten class).

Oceander - thank God she couldn't read your mind during that very long 15 minutes.  People JUST DON'T GET IT, do they!!??!!
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 05:07:37 PM
I called my do-nothing WI senators and asked what they got for their vote.  It amounted to a bunch of gibberish which I asked for the English translation.  It's one thing to be a prostitute and quite another to give the milk away for free.

They actually deigned to speak with you, a lowly constituent?  I'm jealous, all I get are cheezy voicemail menus and messages that are never, ever returned.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 05:10:47 PM
Oceander - thank God she couldn't read your mind during that very long 15 minutes.  People JUST DON'T GET IT, do they!!??!!

No, they don't, and they're so cheerful about it - like Stepford Wives (men and women alike) - you try to start talking basic Econ 101, and you get something like this:  "but all those profits the (evil) insurance companies make should go toward paying for more care!"  as if somehow all the administrative work necessary to manage that care will now be done by healthcare fairies instead of human beings who need to earn an income to, amongst other things, pay for their healthcare.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 05:11:39 PM
LMAO!!  Carl, you go boy...

I try. (http://209.85.48.11/13592/198/emo/shy.gif)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 05:12:25 PM
:rotf:

omg..that smiley is hilarous! :lmao:

(http://209.85.48.11/13592/198/emo/peace.gif)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Duke Nukum on December 21, 2009, 05:13:09 PM
They actually deigned to speak with you, a lowly constituent?  I'm jealous, all I get are cheezy voicemail menus and messages that are never, ever returned.
I called the local offices.  My representative's clone offered to connect me directly to DC but they were having a snow day.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: dutch508 on December 21, 2009, 05:13:42 PM
have fun then. I'm not playing that bull shit game

mod's your welcome to kill off my membership, I'm going back to the gulch.

what a ****ing whiny pussie. Why is it all the retards wash up in here thinking their shit don't stink?

Hey, DUmpshit. Try thinking before you speak, 'tho it may well be you can't do two things at the same time.


dumbass.

Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Chris on December 21, 2009, 05:39:30 PM
Just a side thought.

There maybe should be a locked welcome...these are the rulz thread that any sign up is directed to.
Regarding sites that can`t be posted in whole from or linked to.

I know there is a Terms of Service thing but few read those when they register.
Just a suggestion and it could be one that only an admin could add too as need arose.

I didn`t and don`t like the way newbies are treated at FR but that is the result of the growing pains.
Perhaps something similar would be helpful here.

You mean this ---> Attention ALL Members!!!  Breaking New Forum Rules! (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,9640.0.html) at the  top of each forum including this one?  The one that says 'a three- to five- paragraph excerpt of the article being linked to'?  The one that doesn't say copy the whole damned thing like you own it because you don't?  That one?

I'm not giving you a hard time, I'm just pointing out that the rules are already there in plain sight.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Carl on December 21, 2009, 05:46:29 PM
You mean this ---> Attention ALL Members!!!  Breaking New Forum Rules! (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,9640.0.html) at the  top of each forum including this one?  The one that says 'a three- to five- paragraph excerpt of the article being linked to'?  The one that doesn't say copy the whole damned thing like you own it because you don't?  That one?

I'm not giving you a hard time, I'm just pointing out that the rules are already there in plain sight.

I know Chris but it requires someone to electively click on that.
Guess what I am suggesting is a precursor to registering and then a follow up thread that anyone can be politely directed to.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: rich_t on December 21, 2009, 05:47:46 PM
You mean this ---> Attention ALL Members!!!  Breaking New Forum Rules! (http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,9640.0.html) at the  top of each forum including this one?  The one that says 'a three- to five- paragraph excerpt of the article being linked to'?  The one that doesn't say copy the whole damned thing like you own it because you don't?  That one?

I'm not giving you a hard time, I'm just pointing out that the rules are already there in plain sight.

Do you mean to tell me that folks are actually expected to read those things?

Who knew?

 :tongue:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 08:48:31 PM
Courtesy of the Stepford Senators; 60 members of Congress who, between the lot, cannot muster even a single independent thought:

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/stepford-senators.gif)
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 09:01:31 PM
Courtesy of the Stepford Senators; 60 members of Congress who, between the lot, cannot muster even a single independent thought:

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/stepford-senators.gif)

Well, this about makes your head spin...yowza  Watching all those flipping heads.

They all have been bought off and we will pay for it. :(
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 21, 2009, 09:04:09 PM
Well, this about makes your head spin...yowza  Watching all those flipping heads.

They all have been bought off and we will pay for it. :(

Yeah, I probably should slow it down some; still, that's about as fast as they've been trying to fist-fcuk America with Obamacare.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: lovemyusadoyou on December 22, 2009, 09:23:11 AM
 i was watching the movie, "Mr. Smith goes to Washington',  and WOW  it depicted what is presently going on  in Washington.   The story about  a junior Senator, who tried to get a  bill passed,  but it was in conflict with other senators  who had  a hidden  agenda to block the bill.  A person behind the scenes pulling the strings of  the Senators who was fighting the junior Senator  bill, called all the newspaper and tried to destroy this young Senator with lies and scare tactic.   I recommend  that  my Consertiveti friends watch this movie, which will give you all an insight of what is presently going on in Washington.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 22, 2009, 12:48:18 PM
I was just listening to Rush-- apparently- they put in clauses that say that the bill or parts of it can never be repealed. I do not have the time to google it. I trust what he said- Is this Constitutional? DUH!!!!! :banghead:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ralph Wiggum on December 22, 2009, 12:53:38 PM
I was just listening to Rush-- apparently- they put in clauses that say that the bill or parts of it can never be repealed. I do not have the time to google it. I trust what he said- Is this Constitutional? DUH!!!!! :banghead:

I don't think that's possible.  Legislation can be reversed or repealed in a number of ways.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ladywinter on December 22, 2009, 01:11:18 PM
I don't think that's possible.  Legislation can be reversed or repealed in a number of ways.

I pray your right on this.  What a mess!!!!!
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Ralph Wiggum on December 22, 2009, 01:18:00 PM
I pray your right on this.  What a mess!!!!!

I get Rush on tape delay, and just heard his opening monologue.  This sounds unconstitutional as written.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 22, 2009, 01:53:17 PM
I am not getting anything on line-- BUT- Rush had the Senators speaking in defense of that measure. It will be on FOx tonight-- I hope
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: debk on December 22, 2009, 02:29:59 PM
Fox just announced that Reid has moved the vote in the Senate from Christmas Eve evening to 8am on Christmas Eve ....
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 22, 2009, 04:06:50 PM
Here it is-- the part that Rush was talking about is at the end
Health Care Bill Could Face String of Legal Challenges

Quote
Still another challenge is coming from Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who on the Senate floor raised concerns about a section in the health care bill that appears to say that the Senate cannot make changes to it in the future.

"It shall not be in order in the Senate or the House of Representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection," the section says.

DeMint said he found that "particularly troubling."

"We will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a Senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law," DeMint said. "I'm not even sure that it's constitutional."
 

The overall section the senator referred to applied to the creation of an Independent Medicare Advisory Board.

But a senior Reid aide noted that the language restricting the repeal of the measure only applied to one subsection -- a subsection dealing with the manner in which the proposal for the board is introduced and considered in Congress. The aide said the language DeMint found "troubling" did not apply to board or its duties as a whole.

Plus the aide noted that the language can be waived by a 60-vote majority in the Senate.

"It's really a sign of desperation," the aide said.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/22/health-care-face-string-legal-challenges/
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 22, 2009, 04:09:14 PM
If Demint isn't smart enough to know if it's constitutional or not, he shouldn't fawking be in congress.  :whatever:
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Chris on December 22, 2009, 04:41:59 PM
Quote
Senator Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) pointed out some rather astounding language in the Senate health care bill during floor remarks tonight. First, he noted that there are a number of changes to Senate rules in the bill--and it's supposed to take a 2/3 vote to change the rules. And then he pointed out that the Reid bill declares on page 1020 that the Independent Medicare Advisory Board cannot be repealed by future Congresses:
Quote
there's one provision that i found particularly troubling and it's under section c, titled "limitations on changes to this subsection."

    and i quote -- "it shall not be in order in the senate or the house of representatives to consider any bill, resolution, amendment, or conference report that would repeal or otherwise change this subsection."

    this is not legislation. it's not law. this is a rule change. it's a pretty big deal. we will be passing a new law and at the same time creating a senate rule that makes it out of order to amend or even repeal the law.

    i'm not even sure that it's constitutional, but if it is, it most certainly is a senate rule. i don't see why the majority party wouldn't put this in every bill. if you like your law, you most certainly would want it to have force for future senates.

    i mean, we want to bind future congresses. this goes to the fundamental purpose of senate rules: to prevent a tyrannical majority from trampling the rights of the minority or of future co congresses.

[youtube=425,350]EnmvVo_itT0[/youtube]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/TWSFPView.asp
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 22, 2009, 05:48:07 PM
If Demint isn't smart enough to know if it's constitutional or not, he shouldn't fawking be in congress.  :whatever:

That is neither true, nor fair.  All that's really required of a member of Congress is that he or she make a conscientious, good faith effort to respect the limitations imposed by the Constitution - that, in a nutshell, is what differentiates good legislators and members of Congress such as Demint, from the a-hole liberals/marxists aka the Democrats, who are so effing arrogant now that they don't even make the slightest pretense toward caring about what the Constitution says, or doesn't say.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Baruch Menachem on December 22, 2009, 05:53:56 PM
Well, if it is a rules change, it needs 67 to make the change, no?  When push comes to shove when repealing it, the question, "Did this rule get the necessary 67 votes" and the answer is no means the rule is dead.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 22, 2009, 07:13:31 PM
That is neither true, nor fair.  All that's really required of a member of Congress is that he or she make a conscientious, good faith effort to respect the limitations imposed by the Constitution - that, in a nutshell, is what differentiates good legislators and members of Congress such as Demint, from the a-hole liberals/marxists aka the Democrats, who are so effing arrogant now that they don't even make the slightest pretense toward caring about what the Constitution says, or doesn't say.
All that's really required of a member of Congress is that he or she make a conscientious, good faith effort to respect the limitations imposed by the Constitution  
This whole thing went down to who got bribed the most. How can any American watch this seditious,debauchery and not start screaming in the streets is beyond me???????
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 22, 2009, 07:19:06 PM
Well, if it is a rules change, it needs 67 to make the change, no?  When push comes to shove when repealing it, the question, "Did this rule get the necessary 67 votes" and the answer is no means the rule is dead.

Nope... If today it takes 51 votes, then it takes 51 votes. If you put a bill forth that says it take 67 votes from now on, it still only takes 51 votes to pass that.

It's actually quite a brilliant move.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 22, 2009, 07:37:46 PM
All that's really required of a member of Congress is that he or she make a conscientious, good faith effort to respect the limitations imposed by the Constitution  
This whole thing went down to who got bribed the most. How can any American watch this seditious,debauchery and not start screaming in the streets is beyond me???????

Uh, excuse me, would you mind explaining how you managed to equate my statement:
Quote
the a-hole liberals/marxists aka the Democrats, who are so effing arrogant now that they don't even make the slightest pretense toward caring about what the Constitution says, or doesn't say

with anything that even remotely sounds like I'm saying that the Democrats made even the slightest pretense at any effort, in good faith or not, to follow the dictates of the Constitution?

Read before you type, hmm.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 22, 2009, 07:38:44 PM
Nope... If today it takes 51 votes, then it takes 51 votes. If you put a bill forth that says it take 67 votes from now on, it still only takes 51 votes to pass that.

It's actually quite a brilliant move.

Not necessarily; that's a gambit that has more holes than the string-theorist's 21-d space has.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 22, 2009, 07:41:47 PM
Not necessarily; that's a gambit that has more holes than the string-theorist's 21-d space has.

I'm listening...
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Oceander on December 22, 2009, 07:50:00 PM
I'm listening...

Simply change the rules later on by adding a proviso that says, notwithstanding any other provision of law, no bill, amendment, or other motion in the Senate shall require anything other than a simple majority of senators voting "aye" to pass.  The later in time controls the earlier in time, and under the doctrine of implicit repeal, that provision would knock out the earlier that required a super-majority.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: bkg on December 22, 2009, 07:52:57 PM
Simply change the rules later on by adding a proviso that says, notwithstanding any other provision of law, no bill, amendment, or other motion in the Senate shall require anything other than a simple majority of senators voting "aye" to pass.  The later in time controls the earlier in time, and under the doctrine of implicit repeal, that provision would knock out the earlier that required a super-majority.

I admit that I'm not following. Will have to read a few more times. Linearly doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: BlueStateSaint on December 23, 2009, 05:17:58 AM
I admit that I'm not following. Will have to read a few more times. Linearly doesn't make sense to me.

Brian, Oceander is onto something.  It took a ruling by the Senate parlimentarian to ge tthis rule inserted into the bill, IIRC.  It's binding only on the current Congress.  If the next Congress wants to change it (2011), they can.  If the Congress after that wants to change it in 2013, they can.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 23, 2009, 07:36:57 AM
Just the thought-- the audacity, the insanity....To try to bind a future congress. It does not matter if it can be upheld. What matters is that they have the chutzpah or cajones to do it in the first place. Who the hell do they think they are?
We gotta show them!
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: docstew on December 23, 2009, 03:03:05 PM
Well, if it is a rules change, it needs 67 to make the change, no?  When push comes to shove when repealing it, the question, "Did this rule get the necessary 67 votes" and the answer is no means the rule is dead.

if a rule change in the senate requires 67 votes, and this bill has a rule change in it, wouldn't that raise the bar for passage from 51 to 67?
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Randy on December 23, 2009, 05:54:37 PM
I have a better idea. Screw changing it, just throw the whole piece of shit out.
Title: Re: HC debate closed, 60-40 vote
Post by: Patriot Lady on December 23, 2009, 06:23:32 PM
I have a better idea. Screw changing it, just throw the whole piece of shit out.
:hyper:   :rotf:   :cheersmate: