The Conservative Cave

Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: BlueStateSaint on December 19, 2009, 08:44:13 AM

Title: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: BlueStateSaint on December 19, 2009, 08:44:13 AM
Senate Democrats said Saturday that they had closed ranks in support of legislation to overhaul the nation's health-care system, ending months of internal division and clearing a path for quick Senate passage of President Obama's top domestic policy priority.

Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) secured the pivotal 60th vote after acceding to the demands of Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) for tighter restrictions on insurance coverage for abortions, along with increased federal aid for his home state and breaks for favored health-care interests.

Many liberals, however, were bitterly disappointed with the bargains Reid struck to win support from moderates in his caucus, any member of which could demand alterations in exchange for his or her support.

Democratic leaders dropped a government insurance option and the idea of expanding Medicare to younger Americans. Reid also omitted language that would have eliminated the federal antitrust exemption for health insurers -- another nonstarter for Nelson.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/19/AR2009121900797_pf.html


Just breaking on Fox & Friends. 

60 votes.

Obviously, more will follow.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: franksolich on December 19, 2009, 08:49:08 AM
It was going to happen sooner or later, but I thought it would happen later than this.

Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 19, 2009, 08:52:30 AM
It was going to happen sooner or later, but I thought it would happen later than this.



One wonders what little goodie from SantØbama's sack of toys he held out for...
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: seabelle on December 19, 2009, 08:53:48 AM
Even with moveon.org and Howard Dean going against it ?   

There goes Obama's second term  :whatever:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: seabelle on December 19, 2009, 08:57:36 AM
Hot Air's got some more info....

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/19/breaking-nelson-will-vote-for-cloture/
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: BlueStateSaint on December 19, 2009, 09:00:03 AM
One wonders what little goodie from SantØbama's sack of toys he held out for...

He's telling us now on F&F.  And, Shane Osborne will replace Nelson in 2012, IMO.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: franksolich on December 19, 2009, 09:25:42 AM
Yeah, I have to retract what I posted in a primitive bonfire brought over here just hours ago; Ben's not going to find re-election (in 2012) inevitable any more.

Despite what the primitives allege, the senior senator from Nebraska is a die-hard hard-core Democrat, solid to the bone Democrat.

I figured however he had about three to six more weeks of stalling in him, before he had to cave.  I overestimated his stamina, I guess.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Mr Mannn on December 19, 2009, 09:31:46 AM
Democrats never hold out on principle. He was paid off.
Democrat=socialist=bribery=corruption.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: franksolich on December 19, 2009, 09:36:36 AM
And, Shane Osborne will replace Nelson in 2012, IMO.

Shane Osborne, the Navy pilot who caused the first crisis of the Bush administration in January 2001, is term-limited as Nebraska's secretary of state, and has indicated he's retiring from politics so as to spend more time with his family.

That could change now, that the senior senator looks beatable.

The deal is, Nebraska is LOADED with all sorts of solid Republican talent, bright, articulate, principled people in their late 20s, 30s, and early 40s--so much I wish we could export some of them to Republican-challenged blue areas.

Interestingly, the Omaha World-Herald this morning has a front-page feature story on the current lieutenant governor of Nebraska, one of them.

The new emerging to replace the old.

It's a veritable feast of high-quality people, and I wish I could share, alas.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Wayne on December 19, 2009, 09:42:15 AM
 No shocker there.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: bkg on December 19, 2009, 09:49:44 AM
Merry Fawking Christmas America...

And people wonder why I don't like the holidays.

Signed into law before EOY so the taxes can start on 01/01/10.  :bird:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Mr Mannn on December 19, 2009, 10:48:43 AM
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDcyYTUyYzFkMmRmZTU0Mjg1NDExNWUwMWM5NDE1MmE=
Quote
Nelson's Deal   [Jonah Goldberg]

Here's what I'm hearing. The deal for Ben Nelson includes additional Medicaid funding for Nebraska and carve outs for physician owned hospitals in Nebraska — and Nebraska only. Uncle Sam will take the hit for 100% of the Medicaid expansion for Nebraska, forever. Nebraska is the only state to get this deal.

It profits a man nothing give his soul for the whole world, but for Medicaid funding carve outs....
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Carl on December 19, 2009, 12:33:15 PM
What do you think of that Shumer and Gillibrand?
Same for the rest of the northeast libs.

You`ve been sold out,maybe now when property taxes rocket upward to pay for this monstrosity your "safe" Senate seats may be on the line.

A-holes every last one of them,can`t see an inch in front of their noses as to what this disaster will bring.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: rich_t on December 19, 2009, 12:40:00 PM
It still has to be reconciled with the House bill.  I highly doubt that will happen before the end of the year.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 12:43:19 PM
When one has already been identified as a prostitute.......the only remaining discussion is......the price......

doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 19, 2009, 01:58:08 PM
He's getting more than Landreau did for LA. 

Howard Dean and friends say they won't sign a bill that still has insurance companies competing for business (wtf?) Dean and Co won't sign a bill that doesn't include the public option nor will they sign a bill that doesn't cover abortions.

We have a hung congress.  Nelson said the bill must remain with the modifications (they took out Medicare for the 55 and up group, they took out federal funded abortions.  When this goes back to the House, if it is changed, he will once again refuse to vote for it(so he says)

Universal Nightmare indeed.

Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 19, 2009, 02:32:15 PM
It still has to be reconciled with the House bill.  I highly doubt that will happen before the end of the year.

What Reconciliation?  Comrade Pelosi has already pledged to the ReichsMessiahnFuhrer that she'll vote for anything the Senate passes out.  So whereas Nelson's just a high-priced whore, Pelosi's bought and paid for, and grabs the ankles whenever her master gives the leash a tug.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 19, 2009, 02:35:07 PM
Howard Dean and friends say they won't sign a bill  that still has insurance companies competing for business (wtf?) Dean and Co won't sign a bill that doesn't include the public option nor will they sign a bill that doesn't cover abortions.

Dean having delusions of adequacy again?  Where the hell does anything say that this cluster**** has to be passed over Howierd Dean's desk somewhere between the Congress and it arriving on the ReichsMessiah's desk?
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 02:40:32 PM
Dean having delusions of adequacy again?  Where the hell does anything say that this cluster**** has to be passed over Howierd Dean's desk somewhere between the Congress and it arriving on the ReichsMessiah's desk?

He does speak for the "Liberal Caucus".......I suspect that this is not a done deal yet......

doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 19, 2009, 03:30:21 PM
Nebraska companies get exemption from a new tax and future increases in Nebraska state Medicare costs get covered by the federal taxpayers.

That was the bribe.

This is sickening.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Freeper on December 19, 2009, 03:30:48 PM
Harry Reid needs to be thrown out of the senate and tried for high crimes of bribery.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 03:34:16 PM
Laura Ingram was saying he had a chance to be a hero.

Some hero.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 03:36:30 PM
Nebraska companies get exemption from a new tax and future increases in Nebraska state Medicare costs get covered by the federal taxpayers.

That was the bribe.

This is sickening.

One of our resident attorneys would have to verify this, but I would think that this action would form the basis for one whopping big lawsuit by the taxpayers of the other states that are required to pony up to pay this bribe to Nebraska.........particularly involving Medicaid, which all states are required to provide.

doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Freeper on December 19, 2009, 03:37:02 PM
Nebraska companies get exemption from a new tax and future increases in Nebraska state Medicare costs get covered by the federal taxpayers.

That was the bribe.

This is sickening.

I just heard a loud rumble off in the distance turns out, it is our founding fathers rolling over in their graves.  :banghead:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 19, 2009, 03:37:36 PM
One of our resident attorneys would have to verify this, but I would think that this action would form the basis for one whopping big lawsuit by the taxpayers of the other states that are required to pony up to pay this bribe to Nebraska.........particularly involving Medicaid, which all states are required to provide.

doc

This happens all the time I think. That new "jobs" bill is only for 35 states.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: franksolich on December 19, 2009, 03:38:11 PM
Laura Ingram was saying he had a chance to be a hero.

Some hero.

No doubt he's going to try.

I think Ben will vote against the final bill, but the final bill takes only 51 votes to pass.

And then he'll campaign in 2012 on the perception that he voted against it.

I'm confident however that this time around, Nebraska voters will be on to this sort of politics, and remember that his caving on the filibuster in the first place made it possible for the bill to pass.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 03:40:22 PM
This happens all the time I think. That new "jobs" bill is only for 35 states.

The Jobs bill is not a federal entitlement..........this would be akin to the congress stating that if I live in Kansas, I receive more in Social Security funding per recipient, than if I lived in Colorado......

doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: BlueStateSaint on December 19, 2009, 03:45:43 PM
The Jobs bill is not a federal entitlement..........this would be akin to the congress stating that if I live in Kansas, I receive more in Social Security funding per recipient, than if I lived in Colorado......

doc

Actually, you're onto something here.  Making 49 states pay for something that all 50 are participating in is "some are more equal than others."  The SCOTUS, if it ever gets that far, will overturn it. 

Thing is, it will take many years to wind its' way through the Federal courts.  There should be a Republican president by then.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 03:51:07 PM
Actually, you're onto something here.  Making 49 states pay for something that all 50 are participating in is "some are more equal than others."  The SCOTUS, if it ever gets that far, will overturn it.  

Thing is, it will take many years to wind its' way through the Federal courts.  There should be a Republican president by then.

If a new law is passed with a constitutional challenge, there is a SCOTUS  "fast track" that will place it at the head of the docket for the current session.......all that it takes is a credible challenge.......remember "McCain-Finegold", it was heard by the court within the year.



doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 19, 2009, 03:58:19 PM
The Jobs bill is not a federal entitlement..........this would be akin to the congress stating that if I live in Kansas, I receive more in Social Security funding per recipient, than if I lived in Colorado......

doc

I would hope a court would do something. I am afraid they would simply throw the Nebraska exemptions out.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 19, 2009, 04:07:20 PM
I would hope a court would do something. I am afraid they would simply throw the Nebraska exemptions out.

We hoped the USSC would see the obvious with McLame/Feingold too.  Look what that got us.

Quote
'The shitty part of this point in America's history is that it's too late to correct the situation from within the system, and it's too soon to just shoot the ****ers that did this to her.'
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 19, 2009, 04:12:30 PM
That is true.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: BlueStateSaint on December 19, 2009, 04:16:47 PM
I would hope a court would do something. I am afraid they would simply throw the Nebraska exemptions out.

And Nelson would get blamed for that, in the fact that his vote allowed the monstrosity to go forward.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Airwolf on December 19, 2009, 04:21:38 PM
One wonders what little goodie from SantØbama's sack of toys he held out for...

Offutt AFB not being closed down by Obama.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 19, 2009, 04:32:18 PM
Offutt AFB not being closed down by Obama.

exemption from a healthcare tax and the federal taxpayers covering Medicare increases that is usually paid by the state.

I think Nevada and Louisiana got the same deal.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 19, 2009, 05:19:43 PM
Offutt AFB not being closed down by Obama.

Considering that The Øne could not even convene the BRAC committee - under the current statute; we all know now how easy it is for The Øne to re-write pesky legislation - until 2013, I think that was something of a hollow threat against Nelson from the beginning, intended for public consumption and to provide the bastard with political cover in exchange for his vote.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: longview on December 19, 2009, 05:41:47 PM
Offutt AFB not being closed down by Obama.

That's what co-workers in Nebraska were guessing this morning. 
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 19, 2009, 05:51:26 PM
What do you think of that Shumer and Gillibrand?
Same for the rest of the northeast libs.

You`ve been sold out,maybe now when property taxes rocket upward to pay for this monstrosity your "safe" Senate seats may be on the line.

A-holes every last one of them,can`t see an inch in front of their noses as to what this disaster will bring.

I'm starting up "fire Schumer" and "fire Gillibrand" efforts right now.  One of the first things I intend to do, at least to start getting under that bastard's skin, is to start posting up hundreds of copies of the wanted poster below in the block around where Schumer keeps his NYC lair:


(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/Others/Wanted-Poster-Fraud_Schumer.jpg)


and also something along these lines:

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/Madoff_Schumer.gif)
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Carl on December 19, 2009, 05:57:52 PM
Actually, you're onto something here.  Making 49 states pay for something that all 50 are participating in is "some are more equal than others."  The SCOTUS, if it ever gets that far, will overturn it. 

Thing is, it will take many years to wind its' way through the Federal courts.  There should be a Republican president by then.

Wouldn`t the equal protection clause apply here?

Quote
EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUSE - Portion of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that prohibits discrimination by state government institutions. The clause grants all people "equal protection of the laws," which means that the states must apply the law equally and cannot give preference to one person or class of persons over another.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e027.htm
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: 5412 on December 19, 2009, 07:13:58 PM
exemption from a healthcare tax and the federal taxpayers covering Medicare increases that is usually paid by the state.

I think Nevada and Louisiana got the same deal.

Hi,

First thing I would tell the republicans to do when they are back in control is rescind the special perks in the bill for every member of congress who got bought off.  They have to send the message that crime does not pay.  The beautiful part is how quickly BO would gleefully sign that bill as well.

We have our problems with senator Nelson here in Florida who is up for re-election in 2012.  He is like 70 and I think if we have enough of a public backlash in 2010 you are going to see a lot of Democrats deciding not to run again.

God, I hope so. 

The kind of talk around the old farts lunch table today was two things.  Come 2012, we are going to try to make it hell for (FL) Nelson if he decides to run again.  I will find every place he is talking and be carrying some very caustic signs with me.  By that time I will be 72 years old, let the gestapo bop on me for it.

Second thing I heard today, voiced a couple of times is this.  When seniors who need medical care are denied care, which will happen, wonder how long before one realizes that the government is leaving him/her to die....like Palin said death panels.  Don't know if you have seen the Maxine cartoon rolling around the internet where each senior gets three bullets, one for them and two for members of congress who voted for the health care bill.  Someone wondered aloud just how long before that may become a reality.  At that point, what would one have to lose??

The libs think they are cute and getting away with something but I do not think that it will be forgotten, the majority of the public is furious.  And many do not know just how gory the bill is so it is not going to get any better. 

I do not like the storm clouds I see brewing on the horizon at all.

regards,
5412
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 19, 2009, 08:18:34 PM
Thos. Jefferson warned that the tree of liberty might need to be watered from time to time; regrettably, the Democrats seem hellbent on proving him correct.

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/Red_Rain.gif)
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Airwolf on December 19, 2009, 11:32:50 PM
Considering that The Øne could not even convene the BRAC committee - under the current statute; we all know now how easy it is for The Øne to re-write pesky legislation - until 2013, I think that was something of a hollow threat against Nelson from the beginning, intended for public consumption and to provide the bastard with political cover in exchange for his vote.

It could be but three senate sources and two from the media say that threat was real coming from the White House.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 19, 2009, 11:56:52 PM
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/Madoff_Schumer.gif)

I love that one!
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: The Village Idiot on December 20, 2009, 12:37:39 AM
I just heard the monthly fees to pay for abortion are still in the bill.

wow. He sold out big time.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Chris_ on December 20, 2009, 12:29:41 PM
Thos. Jefferson warned that the tree of liberty might need to be watered from time to time; regrettably, the Democrats seem hellbent on proving him correct.

(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx221/B_Oceander/GIF_Animations/Red_Rain.gif)

Theoretically, the tree would need to be watered by only a couple of Dem Senators from states with republican governors, to put a permanent stop to this crap........just speculating......

doc
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Rockriver15 on December 20, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
I sincerely hope they make them read every last word of the bill and double check puctuation.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 20, 2009, 08:48:01 PM
Theoretically, the tree would need to be watered by only a couple of Dem Senators from states with republican governors, to put a permanent stop to this crap........just speculating......

doc

That's all we can do at this point:  speculate on just how far the left is willing to go to seize power in the US, a la Hugo Chavez.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 20, 2009, 09:56:17 PM
That's all we can do at this point:  speculate on just how far the left is willing to go to seize power in the US, a la Hugo Chavez.

Yup.

We're at that agonizing point in the history of our country where it's too late to repair the damage that's been done to her from within the system, and too soon to just shoot the bastards that did this to her.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 20, 2009, 10:03:38 PM
Yup.

We're at that agonizing point in the history of our country where it's too late to repair the damage that's been done to her from within the system, and too soon to just shoot the bastards that did this to her.

I try to be optimistic and think that all is not lost and we'll be able to gain back the country we had...but the logical part of me knows you are right... :(
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 10:05:35 PM
Yup.

We're at that agonizing point in the history of our country where it's too late to repair the damage that's been done to her from within the system, and too soon to just shoot the bastards that did this to her.

Well said.  Are you sure it's "too soon to just shoot the bastards"...can't we negotiate on this?  :devious:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 20, 2009, 10:09:11 PM
Well said.  Are you sure it's "too soon to just shoot the bastards"...can't we negotiate on this?  :devious:

With whom, and on what points?
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: bkg on December 20, 2009, 10:13:02 PM
Well said.  Are you sure it's "too soon to just shoot the bastards"...can't we negotiate on this?  :devious:

I'm going to get along with you very, very well.  :cheersmate:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 20, 2009, 10:14:27 PM
With whom, and on what points?

Nevermind, I was reading it from the wrong end of the telescope - I quite agree with bkg!  :beer:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 10:14:55 PM
With whom, and on what points?
With whom:  The caving "bought off" Congress.
On what points:  We can't afford it, we can't afford it, we can't afford it...need I say more.?
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Oceander on December 20, 2009, 10:17:00 PM
With whom:  The caving "bought off" Congress.
On what Points:  We can't afford, we can't afford, we can't afford...need I say more.?

Yup; I got it after I posted the first one - sometimes my fingers are faster than my brains! :(  Like I said in my edit to my last post, I think we'll get on famously! 
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 20, 2009, 10:22:36 PM
I think we'll get on famously!  

Indeed. :beer:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 21, 2009, 07:43:49 AM
Well said.  Are you sure it's "too soon to just shoot the bastards"...can't we negotiate on this?  :devious:

Trust me, you don't want anarchy and chaos any sooner than you absolutely have to have it.  If for no other reason than there are too many people who have been so conditioned and anesthetized into accepting the rule of the statists that a majority of the population is entirely unprepared to deal with anarchy.  Even if you are prepared, it means that you will have your hands full guarding the good people whom you can awaken and salvage from the wolves and statists alike.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 09:28:37 AM
Trust me, you don't want anarchy and chaos any sooner than you absolutely have to have it.  If for no other reason than there are too many people who have been so conditioned and anesthetized into accepting the rule of the statists that a majority of the population is entirely unprepared to deal with anarchy.  Even if you are prepared, it means that you will have your hands full guarding the good people whom you can awaken and salvage from the wolves and statists alike.

I agree with you.  However, at times, it's refreshing (for lack of a better word) to entertain the IDEA.  I believe if it ever comes to a revolution, most will not be prepared and it will be ugly.  I do not want to see this, but at the same time I struggle with how much We The People are gonna put up with.  We have children who need to live their lives in our country. I for one, resist and refuse to see it become socialized or worse. (Although we are already seeing the budding signs in this direction.)  DC is out-of-control, so...what's next? 
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: debk on December 21, 2009, 09:34:49 AM
Huckabee has a petition on his site regarding the wonderful  ::) Senator from Nebraska.....if anyone is interested in reading and signing....

http://www.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Petitions.View&Petition_id=11
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 09:48:18 AM
Huckabee has a petition on his site regarding the wonderful  ::) Senator from Nebraska.....if anyone is interested in reading and signing....

http://www.huckpac.com/?Fuseaction=Petitions.View&Petition_id=11

I had this e-mailed to me; did read and sign.  Good ol' Huck...

debk:  Thanks for posting the link.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 21, 2009, 09:53:24 AM
DC is out-of-control, so...what's next? 

What's next, is that their Lordships in DC will work to consolidate and reinforce their power, and quash dissent.  They'll "make examples" of ordinary citizens in order to pressure the high pofile loudmouths to shut the **** up.  Somewhere along this stage,  they'll pick the wrong target, overreach, or just stop caring about being discrete, and things will get loud and wet.  That'll be the Lexington/Concord shot heard 'round the world.  (just remember that after Concord, nothing much happened in the Massachutsetts theater for 2 months.  Then the fight got UGLY at Breed's Hill.)
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DumbAss Tanker on December 21, 2009, 09:54:58 AM
One of our resident attorneys would have to verify this, but I would think that this action would form the basis for one whopping big lawsuit by the taxpayers of the other states that are required to pony up to pay this bribe to Nebraska.........particularly involving Medicaid, which all states are required to provide.

doc

Conceptually, there are real "Equal protection of the laws" issues with it, IMHO.  It does depend on how it is actually worded though; legislative bodies at all levels have great track records for crafting language so it reads like there are neutral criteria, but in fact it only fits one group.  Also it can't be taken to court until it makes in into a final bill that becomes law, and even then the Federal courts are loath to venture into this.

Any Federal or military construction or other activity is going to selectively benefit some states over others, and logically only states with ports benefit from harbor work, etc.  But this kind of national entitlement program is a whole different situation.  It remains to be seen if anyone will want to invest in the fight, though.       
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 10:10:38 AM
overreach, or just stop caring about being discrete,

That's already happening...eg:the Landreau and Nelson bribes.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: debk on December 21, 2009, 10:13:45 AM
Conceptually, there are real "Equal protection of the laws" issues with it, IMHO.  It does depend on how it is actually worded though; legislative bodies at all levels have great track records for crafting language so it reads like there are neutral criteria, but in fact it only fits one group.  Also it can't be taken to court until it makes in into a final bill that becomes law, and even then the Federal courts are loath to venture into this.

Any Federal or military construction or other activity is going to selectively benefit some states over others, and logically only states with ports benefit from harbor work, etc.  But this kind of national entitlement program is a whole different situation.  It remains to be seen if anyone will want to invest in the fight, though.       


There were two Senators on Fox Sunday yesterday....one was a woman from MN and while I can't remember exactly where the guy was from....he mentioned his state had a very small population for a large state....

Mike Wallace was asking how this was legal....and the woman tiptoed around the question - surprise - and said....all states are getting something from the health bill.

Mike Wallace said ....so it's business as normal in Congress and so much for transparency.

This woman said....but it is transparent...we are sitting here telling you what our states have gotten too....in the past it would have taken years to come out!

SHE SAID IT WITH A STRAIGHT FACE!!!!!!

 :redbird:
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: DefiantSix on December 21, 2009, 10:17:06 AM
That's already happening...eg:the Landreau and Nelson bribes.

That's patty-cake compared to what's around the next corner or two.

I'm talking about federal police agencies raiding homes of private citizens in the dead of night for their becoming a "fan" of "counter-revolitionary" or "seditious" groups and pages on Facebook, because openly coming out against Beck/Limbaugh/Palin etc... would have too much of a "negative reaction" from the man on the streets.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: bkg on December 21, 2009, 10:17:58 AM

There were two Senators on Fox Sunday yesterday....one was a woman from MN and while I can't remember exactly where the guy was from....he mentioned his state had a very small population for a large state....

Amy Klobuchar is a complete bitch. I hate that woman. And I don't use the word hate often. She hates the COTUS, she hates freedom, she hates liberty.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Ladywinter on December 21, 2009, 10:22:39 AM

There were two Senators on Fox Sunday yesterday....one was a woman from MN and while I can't remember exactly where the guy was from....he mentioned his state had a very small population for a large state....

Mike Wallace was asking how this was legal....and the woman tiptoed around the question - surprise - and said....all states are getting something from the health bill.

Mike Wallace said ....so it's business as normal in Congress and so much for transparency.

This woman said....but it is transparent...we are sitting here telling you what our states have gotten too....in the past it would have taken years to come out!

SHE SAID IT WITH A STRAIGHT FACE!!!!!!

 :redbird:

I watched this also.  THEY DON'T EVEN HID IT ANYMORE!  I'm not sure if that's good or bad.  But whatever it is - the American people are getting more "hot" about it by the growing second.

Something is coming down - bloody or not - something IS coming.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: NHSparky on December 21, 2009, 10:23:24 AM
What does it tell you when a RINO-socialist lite-Obama Comfort Girl like Olympia Snowe can't even bring herself to vote for this steaming turd.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Hawkgirl on December 21, 2009, 10:29:10 AM
That's patty-cake compared to what's around the next corner or two.

I'm talking about federal police agencies raiding homes of private citizens in the dead of night for their becoming a "fan" of "counter-revolitionary" or "seditious" groups and pages on Facebook, because openly coming out against Beck/Limbaugh/Palin etc... would have too much of a "negative reaction" from the man on the streets.

It's not really pattycake...taxpayers are footing the bill for these bribes...I don't believe taking my hard earned money to pay for bribes is mild.  Yes, this is the start...the start is here...it's not "sometime in the future" anymore....(I know it sounded like a quote from the Terminator)
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: debk on December 21, 2009, 11:53:34 AM
Amy Klobuchar is a complete bitch. I hate that woman. And I don't use the word hate often. She hates the COTUS, she hates freedom, she hates liberty.

She seemed to be gloating....which just made me angrier...
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: bkg on December 21, 2009, 11:54:40 AM
She seemed to be gloating....which just made me angrier...

She's a complete bitch. She and Sen. Kerry wanted to go after Apple and AT&T to invalidate their contract... they thought everyone should have the right to have an iPhone on whatever network they want... Fawking stupid.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: rich_t on December 21, 2009, 01:34:58 PM
That's patty-cake compared to what's around the next corner or two.

I'm talking about federal police agencies raiding homes of private citizens in the dead of night for their becoming a "fan" of "counter-revolitionary" or "seditious" groups and pages on Facebook, because openly coming out against Beck/Limbaugh/Palin etc... would have too much of a "negative reaction" from the man on the streets.

I do not doubt that there is a high possibility of this sort of thing happening, and when it does they will no doubt try to spin it like the did Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Rockriver15 on December 23, 2009, 07:12:03 PM
This was an inevitble outcome they were always gonna vote for this monstrosity. We can only hope that we can actually get enough seats in congress senate and house to allevite the damage being done. I am aware that they are trying to put a provision in the bill so it can not be repealed , but that would never hold up in the supreme court even an idiot can not twist the interprettion of the constitution to allow that thought to hold water. my only fear is all these third party canidates that are gonna be in  the race next year are gonna take votes from gop canidates and we are gonna end up allowing the dems to win because of it. A wise man once said we need a revitalized republican party not a third party. I am a huge supporter of the tea party movement but as for them running in elections against republicans that may win if these guys do not take votes that would have gone to the gop. I m against that  prime example was 1994 the country was fed up and here came a man name of Ross Perot the votes that he got gave us Clinton and her husband. That should be enough said but i am for anyone  who is eligble running for office just remember if you vote for the third party and get a democrat do not be upset because you have been warned unfortunately history repeats it self. That wise man that said we do not need a third party but a revitalized republican party was none other than Pres. Ronald Reagon. we have a prime example of this in Louisiana Senator David Vitter has a voting record that is conservative down to its very core, but we have a third party canidate named Bob lang who is very likely gonna steal votes from Vitter and give us a dem. as a side effect. I pray not!
Title: Re: Ben Nelson caved . . .
Post by: Rockriver15 on December 23, 2009, 07:32:21 PM
One question for all of you .What does a dog do when backed in a corner? He fights and so shall we at the polls and prayfully only at the polls. We know all to well what happens when a person feels it's hopeless example a group of farmers and colonist gave us these UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
 "We must all hang together or we will assuredly hang sperately" Benjamin Franklin.
"I think that people (americans)want peace , and freedom so much that one day the government had best get out of the way and let them have it" Dwight D. Eisenhower