Some primitive comments that might be of interest:
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 08:46 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message
2. Beautiful story. Thank you.
Rec'd, because of the unrec brigade.
CaliforniaPeggy (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 08:47 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message
4. Thank you for telling us this terrifying story.
I am so glad you saved her life, and the lives of your sons...
Abortions can be elective, but obviously, not all of them...
bobbolink (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 08:55 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #5
9. Its all the same to the RW, and I think you know *that*.
They insist on using the term "partial birth abortion", even though they KNOW that it is almost ALWAYS a matter of the life of the mother.
They simply don't care.
The sparkling husband primitive's wife:
Sparkly (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 08:55 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message
10. K&R but to be clear...
When the life of a woman is at risk, abortions are legal and covered throughout a pregnancy.
However, the rightwing government-intrusion zealots do make a distinction between a woman's "life" and a woman's "health." So, for example, if your wife were "merely" risking her fertility, physical debilitation or mental illness, the rightwing nutjobs would not allow her to have the abortion.
The hypochondrial primitive, who's had every afflicition ever known in the history of mankind, and some not yet named:
mopinko (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 10:36 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Reply #11
31. i think that is the point.
"elective" abortions are more like "elective" root canals than boob jobs.
Stinky The Clown (1000+ posts) Fri Dec-04-09 09:58 PM
NOMINEE FOR TOP PRIMITIVE OF 2009
Response to Original message
25. ......
K & R
*****PRIMITIVE BRAWL!*****
^^^^^PRIMITIVE BRAWL!^^^^^
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
102. I wish everyone wouldn't argue about the issue.
It is terrible that women would abort babies as a form of birth control. That part needs to be illegal. There are too many birth control alternatives available today.
Abortion should be available for medical necessity the health of the mother it is without question as well as rape, incest, and severe handicap of the fetus.
People just need to take a common sense approach and stop all the insanity with this issue.
The Blue Dogs on this issue are using a common sense approach.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #102
113. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is an altogether disgusting post.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #113
120. Why?
Because I have an opinion that is not shared by you? I won't extrapolate on what you believe because your post did not in any form elude to it. I am sure you are not for abortion on demand as a form of birth control now are you? Don't you agree that men and women should take a responsible approach to sex and use available birth control methods?
Maybe you can explain why the incidence of abortion as a form of birth control has not seriously decreased in the last decade?
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #120
123. Anyone who throws around the term "abortion as a form of birth control" is clueless and judgmental. You have clearly no idea at ALL and are beyond hope. What a stupid notion.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. Nonsense...
You over hype what I am saying. Obviously women get pregnant even when they are trying not to and I have no problem with a women getting an abortion if these accidents do happen but we all understand the functions of sex, if there was any question that the birth control method used did not work then there is always the morning after EC.
My position is simple,
If a women gets pregnant regardless of the circumstances that preceeded it.
If she plans for the child, Oh it might be nice to have a baby, I think I will name him ...., Creates future memories of the child, etc... and then for whatever reason short of medical necessity to her i.e, financial, partner leaves, emotional, etc, decides that she is going to destroy that life she is carrying then that, that is the danger and that is the particular ones I am talking about and that would fit the definition of using Abortion as birth control. In fact I see it more like Murder but hey thats just me.
You decide.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #127
130. That's right... *I* decide, not you.
It's a decision between a woman and her physician and thankfully you have ZERO say in the matter. But that doesn't keep you from judging others, does it?
It's appalling that you think you have a right to judge anyone for the medical decisions that they make. If it were up to you women would either have no choice or be forced to justify their decision so that it fits into one of your neat little "acceptable" boxes or be deemed a murderer.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. Exactly, Exactly, Exactly.
I am a taxpayer and because like you said "YOU" decide then don't take my tax dollars and subsidize "YOUR" decisions how is that fair?
YEAH FOR THE STUPAK Ammendment you made my point better then I could.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:19 PM
Original message
I see. Your goal is to restrict access. Pretty arrogant to think you have a say in where health care dollars are spent. Why do you care if your tax dollars are spent on abortions?
It's not about the money, is it? It can't be. If these pregnancies go to term, the cost of prenatal care and delivery far exceeds the cost of termination.
Let's be honest, it's about your opinion of the procedure. It's about your beliefs. Why is it OK that you factor your opinion of this procedure into HCR? And more importantly, why is it OK to use HCR to restrict access? Because that's what Stupak and DFLA really want. And, if the desire really is to reduce the number of abortions, why not mandate the coverage of contraception in the bill?
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
141. You can't make up your mind can you.
I argued up thread that mandated contraception should be in the bill, and you told me I was being restrictive especially to those on relief. I agree with you that madated coverage of contraception should be in the bill. I agree that the costs of delivery and care far exceed the cost of termination but I want that termination decision made immediately.
Second, no It is not the money, it is the principle. I argued that I have an opinion and principles and morals that I believe and no they are not the same as yours but you can't just disregard other peoples opinions and expect to get anything accomplished because there are millions of people that share my opinion and there are millions that are much further restrictive then my opinion is so it just can't be discounted.
Stupak seems to be what will satifsy the majority of people that have a different opinion then yours and still leave the options themselves open an available.
I look at STUPAK as a forced responsibility issue, you won't be able to use your insurance to pay for abortion so abortion will become seriously cost prohibitive which will again potentially give pause to irresponsible women and men to double down on their protective measures.
I truly am Pro-Choice, I just don't want to be forced to participate in that choice and you should'nt want me to either.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. No, you argued that people should be mandated to be ON contraception if on assistance.
I stated that the COVERAGE of contraception by health insurance, when a proper course of care as determined by a woman and her physician, should be mandated.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. and furthermore....
Abortion is legal I am not trying to change that, you can do anything you want its your body. This whole issue is being driven by what part YOU want society to play in your decisions. If you want complete privacy then pay for it yourself it was your mistake.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #133
137. You just want to restrict access.
Like Stupak and the assholes in the DFLA.
Your argument about society paying for your decisions is the most ridiculous thing ever. Especially with regards to healthcare.
Should you not get help from the fire department because you ****ed up and left a candle burning? Should you not get health care because you failed to exercise and eat well and ended up with diabetes? Should lung cancer not be treated if a patient was a long-time smoker?
No... you just want to restrict access to abortions because you don't "like" them.
The brawl goes on for a bit, but never mind, and we pick up again here:
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #121
124. See we agree...
I am not debating why some people stick to an anti-abortion opinion. I am looking at the reality of the situation. Abortion should be something that women do not need or desire. Personal responsibility would take care of that.
Thats why I fully support norplant, IUD's, morning after pills, etc. and support making them mandatory for anyone that is on state relief programs or welfare.
Maybe you can explain why with all the available birth control options women who don't want to be pregnant are still getting pregnant?
My humanist side feels that once a women who is pregnant assigns life to that child, i.e., plans for it, names it, creates future memories of it, She has given it life and unless there is a medical risk to her if she decides to abort after that, well that is not really abortion, it is more akin to murder.
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #124
126. Wow. You want to restrict the reproductive rights of people on assistance?!!?
Sick.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #126
128. Strange way of looking at that
So you want tax payers to pay for women to have abortions on demand and won't support the cheaper version which is to stop the pregnancy from happening in the first place..
Or pay for society to raise the unwanted child that is put in a foster home because the mother really couldn't afford that decision she made...
Now thats SICK.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #139
148. Ok...
Let me explain myself then, I have 4 children but my wife has had 5 pregnancies. Our second pregnancy we were so hopeful that it would be a girl, we picked out names, we talked about her future, we assigned her life, she was just as real in my mind and my wifes then any of my other children were. Unfortunately, my wife started bleeding in her 11th week, tests concluded that the babies heart had stopped and she had to undergo a D&C. It was as emotional and devastating a thing we have ever endured.
My position is truly a common sense one. I have known women that have been pregnant and overjoyed at first, then after a few weeks of the reality of the situation setting in and them reassessing their life they "CHANGED THEIR MIND" how can a person live with themselves, anyway that is why I think the way I do.
humbled_opinion (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-05-09 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #151
153. and just as weird to me...
is your emotionless dribble... to imagine that you never connected spiritually and emotionally to your child until it was actually born, wonder if it know this? How could you ever explain that oh you were just a bunch of cells until you were born then I actually started to care about you?
seems like a visit to a good therapist is in order for you to find out what that underlying condition is.
Not that I actually believe you because if you truly felt that way then why would you even bother carrying to term? If the growth was akin to cancer you should have wanted it out as soon as possible but I digress.
I do not project on to my children they are who they are and I do enjoy them everyday for their uniqueness.
But I have actually cried when my Pugs puppy died in birth too so hell maybe I do have issues who knows...
It goes on and on, but the boat's overloaded and might sink on its way back here from Skins's island.....