The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: djones520 on November 20, 2009, 10:01:52 AM
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Ya'll know I'm not the cynical type, but I just don't see anyway for a trial to go through on this one. There has got to be so many grounds for dismissal in our court system that Prosecuters are scattering like rats in a spotlight to get away from this one.
Am I wrong? Or is he gonna walk?
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I believe you are spot-on. It seems that to NOT have a dismissal, would just toss our entire judicial code out the window.
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It would be the ultimate repudiation of the Bush Doctorine by the terrorist loving Libs in this country if KSM and his cohorts walked.
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I would not want any person charged with a civilian crime to tried under the circus Obama is engineering. It would be a goddam travesty.
It's hard to imagine any half decent judge NOT finding fault with Miranda, the exclusionary rule, fair and speedy trial, discovery, change of venue etc etc etc. If ANY of those come back and Obama still says KSM is to be detained then he just usurped the entire judiciary after making it a deliberate point to incorporate the judiciary even after the legislature told Bush twice that military tribunals were OK with them.
Get past the technicalities and KSM is already guilty in the court of public opinion (including mine BTW).
I have no problem with tribunals, rendition, covert ops or even targetted killings or waterboarding but I have SERIOUS issues with this perversion of civil criminal courts being used to try acts of war.
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I am afraid it could happen. It will be near impossible to find an impartial juror anywhere in America. Also, it sets a dangerous precendant that is going to irreversible. I don't get it. Why wasn't KSM tried in a military court like about a year after he was caught. I have not problems with military trials since he was caught in a battlefield and it is speedy like the Constitution prescribes. Nowhere did the Constitution say about a discovery phase, which is not used to the extent in a military court.
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I would not want any person charged with a civilian crime to tried under the circus Obama is engineering. It would be a goddam travesty.
It's hard to imagine any half decent judge NOT finding fault with Miranda, the exclusionary rule, fair and speedy trial, discovery, change of venue etc etc etc. If ANY of those come back and Obama still says KSM is to be detained then he just usurped the entire judiciary after making it a deliberate point to incorporate the judiciary even after the legislature told Bush twice that military tribunals were OK with them.
Get past the technicalities and KSM is already guilty in the court of public opinion (including mine BTW).
I have no problem with tribunals, rendition, covert ops or even targetted killings or waterboarding but I have SERIOUS issues with this perversion of civil criminal courts being used to try acts of war.
:exactly: :agree: :werd: :bravo: :yeahthat:
Who'd have thunk that a timid, woodland creature would be capable of posting exactly what a complex, highly trained mind - such as my own - was thinking? :-)
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Since Obama and Holder insist on him being tried by civilian US criminal courts under US laws.....he will have to be let go. :censored:
For all the reasons mentioned above.
Now there is nothing to stop someone with sniper abilities to shooting the SOB right between the eyes as he walks out of the courtroom.....
Y'all do know that ah'm referrin' to KSM doncha? :evillaugh:
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Now there is nothing to stop someone with sniper abilities to shooting the SOB right between the eyes as he walks out of the courtroom.....
Ain't gonna happen.
No dem would get elected for the next 100 years.
Even if KSM is acquitted b/c the prosecution drops the ball and the judge finds on 100 motions to dismiss b/c of technicalities Obama still won't release KSM b/c it would be political suicide.
That's what is so sick about this: Obama is rigging the results for political purposes.
...BUT...
Assuming the worse and KSM does walk we would have to provide federal marshalls to protect him until he is out of the country...not that anybody would take him...so we would have to keep him in protective custody.
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There is no possibility that this will end well, no matter what the outcome.
1. This sets a precedent for granting Constitutional rights to non-citizens. This means that anyone in the world now has Constitutional rights. Does this mean that everyone in the world is subject to our laws as well? Then again, Obama does want to be president of the world...
2. If he is convicted, then Miranda rights and other arrest procedures would have been rendered null and void. The ramifications of this is dire. Sure, he's a non-citizen captured in a foreign land, but suppose someone decides to use this as a legal precedent and apply this to American citizens as well. The term 'Orwellian' seems to have been overused in this past decade (thanks to such idiots as the DUmmies and Kos Kooks), but this term certainly fits here.
3. If he is put in jail (let's say life in prison), he may be put away, but he will more than likey have some kind of influence within that prison. This could lead to possible terror attacks by other prisoners who have come in contact with him.
4. If he is set free, he will inevitably start planning on more attacks, and with this government still mired in the swamp that is political correctness, there is little doubt that he will succeed. He will also likely begin organizing other groups and consolidating Al'Qaeda's power. He might very well end up being what Osama was back in the 90s.
5. There will be a whole lot of classified information that will be released throughout this trial, information that Al'Qaeda is just itching to get their hands on, information that will no doubt further cripple the US.
6. The tin hat crowd and the other DUmmies will have a smorgasbord over this, and will try to make this trial justify their insane conspiracy theories.
7. In the end, this entire trial is nothing more than the latest attempt to criminalize conservatism, patriotism, and opposition in general to the socialist/fascist agenda.
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I voted that he will go free because I have hope in the legal system and SCOTUS.
Because if he's convicted, then SCOTUS is fawked and our rights are history.
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This trial will be longer then barack's presidency and the outcome will be the same - they both walk away losers, but none the worst for wear.
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I voted that he will go free because I have hope in the legal system and SCOTUS.
Because if he's convicted, then SCOTUS is fawked and our rights are history.
And that there is the conundrum. The epitome of damned if we do, damned if we don't. This just sucks.
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Since Obama and Holder insist on him being tried by civilian US criminal courts under US laws.....he will have to be let go. :censored:
Both of whom are supposedly lawyers educated at great expense in our supposedly finest institutions of higher learning. In other words, they should know better.
So why can't we try both of them for treason? Their plan is clearly designed to give the advantage to the accused.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse....likewise, knowledge of the law with a willful disregard thereof with a dose of plain ignorance is no excuse either and stupid should hurt.
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Both of whom are supposedly lawyers educated at great expense in our supposedly finest institutions of higher learning. In other words, they should know better.
So why can't we try both of them for treason? Their plan is clearly designed to give the advantage to the accused.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse....likewise, knowledge of the law with a willful disregard thereof with a dose of plain ignorance is no excuse either and stupid should hurt.
We should be, but not for that reason, rather that, through their actions they are undermining the judicial system and establishing precedent that can be used against American citizens.
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Both of whom are supposedly lawyers educated at great expense in our supposedly finest institutions of higher learning. In other words, they should know better.
So why can't we try both of them for treason? Their plan is clearly designed to give the advantage to the accused.
Ignorance of the law is no excuse....likewise, knowledge of the law with a willful disregard thereof with a dose of plain ignorance is no excuse either and stupid should hurt.
Everyone has the right to be stupid.... some people just abuse that right. Holder is one of them.
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I'm in the minority but, I do not believe he will walk. I do fully expect this to be a media circus and probably lots of classified information will be put in public view. I believe the world will see this as a sham trial (Obama and Holder both said he will fry) and the terrorists will use this to excite their base against us even more but, I can not see him walking maybe I am naive but, I just do not see that happening. This will take years too so odds are he will die of old age by the time it gets to trial :-)
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Should have been executed immediately upon capture in the field, for committing war crimes, as supposedly allowed by the Geneva Convention.
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Should have been executed immediately upon capture in the field, for committing war crimes, as supposedly allowed by the Geneva Convention.
So Malik Nadal Hasan should have as well. Sgt. Munley - I'm sure - did her best, but those who captured that terrorist bastard after she brought him down, should have given that Islamofascist sewer atop his neck a 9mm enema.
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If KSM is found guilty, you can say good bye to your Miranda Rights and various other civil rights we enjoy, a dangerous precadent set by Obama and the ACLU. Also, Obama and Holder tainted it by saying he will be fried and that is grounds for appeal.
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Free, no; it will be an embarassing affair with much righteous posturing, in the end he will still be locked up one way or another, and the whole show will have been a gigantic waste of time, probably with long-term damage to the integrity of the justice system on top of it, since it will be tortured more than the prisoners ever were to obtain an outcome that prevents release, even though that would have been the result in any other criminal trial under the same conditions.
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Free, no; it will be an embarassing affair with much righteous posturing, in the end he will still be locked up one way or another, and the whole show will have been a gigantic waste of time, probably with long-term damage to the integrity of the justice system on top of it, since it will be tortured more than the prisoners ever were to obtain an outcome that prevents release, even though that would have been the result in any other criminal trial under the same conditions.
Not to mention the gazillions of dollars it's going to cost..... :censored: