The Conservative Cave
Current Events => General Discussion => Topic started by: Thor on November 19, 2009, 11:15:41 AM
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Is It Permissible To Join A Kaafir Army?
November 19, 2009 · 14 Comments
In the years since 9/11, we have seen a serious re-defining and whitewashing of what our deen is and is not. Since the Ft Hood shootings, and even before that, we have seen many Muslim organizations refer to US troops which are occupying Muslim lands, as “our troopsâ€. They have celebrated Muslims that have gone over to fight and kill other Muslims. We see Muslim spokesmen saying that the Muslims must abandon the concept of “Ummahâ€. We are seeing Muslims and Muslim Organizations calling for American citizenship to be put above their loyalty to other Muslims around the world. This is a very strange thing as prior to 9/11 the ulamaa of Islam had many fatwas that said just the opposite, especially with regards to a Muslim joining a kufr army and going to fight other Muslims.
We find the people nowadays saying that it is perfectly permissible and even praiseworthy to join the kufr army. This is in contrast to what we saw in the past from the scholars. I would like to know what our friends at Muslim Matters have to say about the following fatwas from such scholars as Sh Ibn Uthaymeen and Sh. Al Munajid. What do they think the scholars would say about al wala wal bara (something completely forgotten about and not taught these days)?
This first fatwa is from Sh Al-Munajjid:
I work in the army of a non-Muslim state, and there are wars between them and the Muslims. What is the ruling if they send me with a division of this army to wage war against the Muslims? As a Muslim, my feelings are that I never want to fight against Muslims in any war. What should I do? What is the ruling if I go…?
Praise be to Allaah.
If you are sent to wage war against the Muslims, then it is not permissible for you to take part at all. Helping the kaafirs against the Muslims is a form of major kufr which puts one beyond the pale of Islam. Allaah says concerning one who supports the mushrikeen (interpretation of the meaning):
“And if any amongst you takes them (as Awliyaa’, i.e., friends), then surely, he is one of themâ€[al-Maa’idah 5:51]
With regard to how you may get out of this situation, and what excuse you can give to get out of this dilemma if it happens, we ask Allaah to help you, and we suggest that you consult some Muslims who have relevant knowledge or experience.
We want to emphasize to you the necessity of finding other employment and of leaving service in the army of the kaafirs, because that implies helping them, strengthening them and increasing the numbers of their fighters and supporters – unless your work can bring some benefits to the Muslims, such as giving information and secrets of the kaafirs to the Muslims so as to help the Muslims, or if your work is purely da’wah, such as giving khutbahs and leading prayers for the Muslims in the kaafir army whilst also advising them to avoid any work that will strengthen the kaafirs. We ask Allaah to keep you safe from temptation and to give you a good end in this world and in the Hereafter.
More (http://umarlee.com/2009/11/19/is-it-permissible-to-join-a-kaafir-army/)
There you have it folks. They are joining our military to learn our secrets and to help out the Muslim jihad.
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More (http://umarlee.com/2009/11/19/is-it-permissible-to-join-a-kaafir-army/)
There you have it folks. They are joining our military to learn our secrets and to help out the Muslim jihad.
Thor, how did we handle this problem in WW2 with our American Japanese troops.?
Civil war comes to mind also.
In a time of peace having a diverse army is essential but in a time of war, it becomes more complicated.
I believe the Israelis have for some time split up into all male or female groups of troops.
There is something within us that that takes competition very seriously especially when it comes to fighting a war.
Say like common street gangs both have the same enemy [the cops ] and will try to one up each other to see who is the badest mothers on the street.
When you start race mixing in any war the troops will loose their own identity, one cannot be politically correct when being shot at.
For those that are old enough to remember the old separate but equal ideas from long ago, this does not work in civilian life. In civilian life one is free to associate with those they choose, no one is forcing anyone to live where they are told to, eat when told to or blindly follow orders.
If one dislikes a neighbor for ANY reason, they are not forced to spend 24/7 with them. Race mixing WORKS in civilion life, I am all for it, incredible things happen when children are born into diverse family's.
Cue in music from Patty Dukes old sit com. Identical Cousins. " They walk alike, talk alike, look alike and think alike."
That describes the enemy we fight today. How can we expect our military to function when someone who thinks like the enemy, looks like the enemy, talks like the enemy, was raised with the same ideals as the enemy is sleeping in the next bunk, and your life may depend on them to back you up.?
Self segregation won the war for the North, who were those unusual men from New York called the Zoroaster's perhaps that wore those most strange costumes and were devils on the field of war.? The fighting Irish from Boston, the French hunter trappers that could track a squirrel for 5 miles. All kept to themselves but fought for a common cause.
If I were to suggest this for civilian life, I would be labled a racist's the field of war however, most rules of civilized deportment must be suspended ---Look to the British in the Revolutionary war, or anytime after when it was more important to adhere to some weird rule of how a gentleman comports themselves then defend themselves.
So I have left the door wide open for those that call me a raciest, NOT.
Just trying to put the lessons of the past on how we defended ourselves and WON over our enemy's in the past and why some wonder why political correctness has taken our military from the greatest generation down to our losses in Korea, Nam, and now just hanging on there in this war.
War cannot be fought and won by following the rules of the civilian populace War is dirty, no holds bared. there will be killing, raping, looting and general fight to survive at any cost.
War is not a Game of capture the flag, no war has ever been won by those being shot at expecting the enemy to play fair, sometimes War becomes out right blood thirst on either side.
Never could understand why the Liberals think War is romantic or should have carved in stone rules for us but not for the enemy.
To win a War we must play by the rules our Enemy's do, no holds bared.
Just musing about the crazy concept of war we civilians have today. We cannot bomb a village with woman and children living there, even as we know that these children will in time grow up to bomb our land with out a thought of our woman and children.
We have become like the British who marched in rank and file expecting us to do the same until we took to hanging out behind stone walls and Indian fighting them. We did try the old rank and file, even had file closers until sanity and good leadership ditched all rules of war and we beat the bastards at their own game.
RANT over, nothing I can do about this but watch as we become like Great Britten where the sun never set on a British colony. What the Hell do they have now. they have lost most of what they had, become so politically correct that life there is dangerous for all citizens.