The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on November 19, 2009, 06:47:31 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=236x71121
Oh my.
Mind_your_head (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-18-09 04:15 PM
Original message
Question regarding Sugar.
I saw at the store a 4 lb. bag of "store brand" granulated sugar on sale for $1.99/bag. When I look at the ingredients all it says is "sugar".
A short distance away is a 4 lb. bag of Pure Cane Sugar for $2.99/bag.
Am I to conclude that granulated sugar is not all necessarily 'cane sugar'? And if it's not 'cane sugar', what is its source? I have heard about beet sugar, but I don't understand/know the difference between beet and cane sugar, if there is much difference.
A 33% increase in price would seem to indicate that there IS some difference between the two bags, but maybe it is just 'marketing'?
Maybe the second brand is organic?
Dkoug's stupid ex-wife:
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-18-09 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. Beet sugar is always cheaper but I'm sorry, I don't remember why any more.
Denninmi (27 posts) Wed Nov-18-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Beet sugar is cheaper because the US has a tarriff on Cane sugar.
We don't produce enough sugar cane in the US, due to climate limitations, for our needs. And, for protectionist reasons, the US has a longstanding, fairly steep tarriff on imported cane sugar.
So, the majority of sugar sold in the US, particular in the northern states away from cane production centers of FL, LA, TX, and CA, is beet sugar.
However, there is absolutely no difference between the two in quality, taste, flavor, etc.
Both are sucrose so highly purified that they are indistinguishable for all intents and purposes to the average person. I'm sure someone properly trained, an expert in the subject, could probably give technical explainations as to how to tell them apart. But you probably couldn't do it without fairly sophisticated equipment.
I say, buy what is cheapest and on sale.
housewolf (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-18-09 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a very informative article on the subject
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1999/0...
The article discusses the differences in beet & cane sugar, and reports on baking and taste tests run to compare the differences. It talks about a bakery needing to scrap their entire day's baked products due to a supplier delivering beet rather than cane sugar because of differences in the way the beet sugar reacted in their bakery, reports that the differences are greater in in brown sugar than white and tests sugar carmelization of creme brulee using both types of white sugar (hint: the beet sugar burned and wouldn't carmelize properly), also differences in cake texture.
It's interesting... it opened my eyes. I always buy C&H cane sugar even though it costs a little more. I recently bought a 25# bag at Costco after reading the comments here about the price of sugar increasing. That will last me a while!
Grandma, being sweet as always:
hippywife (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-19-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Good info.
I've been moving away from using as much white sugar, so I've taken the step of buying fair trade vegan white sugar. Will be doing the same with brown sugar, too. I know I always seem to find the political in food, but in my mind, it's important that I support people who need the living and allow me to enjoy the bounty of my kitchen. The extra paid means more to them than it does to me.
"'Vegan' white sugar"--since when has sugar been a vegetable?
Come to think of it, what is sugar classified as, anyway?
grasswire (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-18-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. isn't some beet sugar from GM beets?
I remember reading something about that not too long ago but am too lazy to google it right now. That was the reason to buy cane sugar.
elleng (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-19-09 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. I always buy the less expensive brand, salt, sugar, etc.
Never noticed a difference.
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It's all commodity, of course buy the cheapest of stuff like that. I would only disagree about salt. I've found I really prefer kosher salt, not the run of the mill table salt.
Yes, Grandma is a sweet little moonbat. She's the sort of person you wouldn't mind having as say a mother in law, provided she lived half the country away. She'd be a source of mild amusement, and helpful kitchen advice, but couldn't be in your face about the political correctness of the coffee you're buying.
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Grandma is a sweet little moonbat. She's the sort of person you wouldn't mind having as say a mother in law, provided she lived half the country away. She'd be a source of mild amusement, and helpful kitchen advice, but couldn't be in your face about the political correctness of the coffee you're buying.
I wouldn't want Grandma as a mother-in-law, but when I get around to winning the Powerball lottery and setting up a bison ranch out here in the Sandhills of Nebraska, complete with a Tudor mansion, I'd seriously consider hiring Grandma--and at top wages--to run the house.
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By the way, I'm still confused about something.
It's just that I never paid much attention.
Is sugar a vegetable or a fruit, or what exactly is it classified?
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I guess it's classified as your basic carbohydrate. At its core, it's vegetable in nature. Some food-police-types want to call it a drug.
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What a bunch of nuts! No one..NO ONE..can tell the difference between bags of white sugar.
By the way, coach, I hope that your bison ranch employees will have healthcare insurance, and no drug testing, and free daycare.
(I like kosher salt and sea salt also, but I'm certain the difference is in the size of the crystals, not the chemical composition of the salt, which is NaCl regardless of its labelling.)
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(I like kosher salt and sea salt also, but I'm certain the difference is in the size of the crystals, not the chemical composition of the salt, which is NaCl regardless of its labelling.)
But when one opens a bag of sea salt, one hears the theme from the Old Spice commercials . . . :uhsure:
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By the way, coach, I hope that your bison ranch employees will have healthcare insurance, and no drug testing, and free daycare.
Nah.
I'm always looking for talent on Skins's island, not only for the DUmpster, but for when I get around to winning the Powerball lottery.
For the longest time, I considered the sour dour theologian defrocked warped primitive as a possible candidate for "operations manager," but as time went on, I got less and less enthusiastic about her.
I was finding that the more nice things I was saying about the warped primitive, the more the warped primitive, back on Skins's island, was being nasty about decent and civilized people.
Some here might recall that I used to say some really nice, really good, really complimentary, things about the warped primitive, not even the slightest hint of a bad miniscule insinuation in any of my comments.
But the warped primitive continued being nasty and spiteful in her comments, so I gave up.
When franksolich wins the Powerball lottery, no job for the warped primitive.
Grandma, however, could get a "hiring bonus," that chest freezer she's always wanted, but the tightwad skinflint hippyhubby won't buy her.
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I tend to buy the store brand (usually Kroger's) for white, powdered and light brown sugar (I don't ever buy dark brown sugar, as to me, it tastes different...I think it has a higher molasses content).
Though it comes from a plant....duh....sugar is pure carbohydrate. I guess if it's "vegan" it's organic....meaning no chemicals were used in the process of growing or turning it into sugar?
I read an article....at least a couple years ago... when the chain groceries got into having "organic" sections in the produce department.
The article said, that while the produce was being advertised as "organic", chances are it was not "pure organic"....meaning absolutely NO chemical had touched the produce in the growing, cleaning or packaging the product. The article said it was virtually impossible to mass produce enough fruit and vegetables, at the quantities required to supply the amount of stores that were at that time, selling "organic" products. The article said that there were guidelines that had to be followed to allow a product to have an "organic" label on it....but basically it was a scam to get people to pay more to "feel good" about what they are purchasing.
If you think about it...it makes sense. Walk into any grocery store these days, and there's an "organic" section in the produce department....forget all the other aisles that have products with "organic" on the label.
Think how many groceries there are in your specific area.....then the state, the country.....all with "organic" produce.
Where is it all coming from? Not here in the States? Can't be enough grown, especially with that huge growing area in CA turning into a desert because of some endangered snail or worm or whatever it is.
Does anyone honestly thing there a pure "organic" growing conditions in Mexico? They may be organic in growth, but I bet there are chemicals being used to clean the produce enough to pass USDA standards for marketing in this country.
I remember the "hippy commune" mentality when it started back in the 60's. They were all several french fries short of a Happy Meal.....and their children and converts of the present time....still are....only worse...their Happy Meal burgers and nuggets are made out of tofu...
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The article said that there were guidelines that had to be followed to allow a product to have an "organic" label on it....but basically it was a scam to get people to pay more to "feel good" about what they are purchasing.
"Organic" is sort of like "recycling", or "green" anything - a scam on DUmbasses that has spawned a huge high-margin industry.
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"Organic" is sort of like "recycling", or "green" anything - a scam on DUmbasses that has spawned a huge high-margin industry.
I don't buy anything "organic"....I'm not willing to pay the extra money for something that I feel has very little difference from something non-organic....
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The only way to get anything organic is to grow it yourself. Use manure and your own compost for fertilizer and soil enrichment. Then, you won't get to eat any of it, because all the bugs and critters will have feasted first, while you slept.
God sent us chemicals for a reason.
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I really dislike being a nitpicker about this, but some things need an answer.
"Carbohydrate" doesn't cut it.
What is sugar considered in its natural state, cane or beet--a fruit or a vegetable?
It has to be one or the other; I mean, hey, even walnuts are classified as one or the other, fruit or vegetable.
I really dislike being a jerk about this, because in reality I'm a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, but the question intrigues me to no end.
Fruit or vegetable? It has to be one or the other.
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I really dislike being a nitpicker about this, but some things need an answer.
"Carbohydrate" doesn't cut it.
What is sugar considered in its natural state, cane or beet--a fruit or a vegetable?
It has to be one or the other; I mean, hey, even walnuts are classified as one or the other, fruit or vegetable.
I really dislike being a jerk about this, because in reality I'm a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, but the question intrigues me to no end.
Fruit or vegetable? It has to be one or the other.
Sugar is a by-product of either sugar cane or beets. I guess I'll wiki it and see if I can find out.
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Frank....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar
it's a crystal formed from a chemical change....its still a carbohydrate.
sugar grow on it's own....it's requires a chemical change of something else to become sugar.
Here's another site that refers to it as occurring during "photosynthesis".....http://www.crystalsugar.com/products/products5.sfacts.asp....however it still has to be extracted and dried into crystals to be "sugar".....
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I really dislike being a nitpicker about this, but some things need an answer.
"Carbohydrate" doesn't cut it.
What is sugar considered in its natural state, cane or beet--a fruit or a vegetable?
It has to be one or the other; I mean, hey, even walnuts are classified as one or the other, fruit or vegetable.
I really dislike being a jerk about this, because in reality I'm a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, but the question intrigues me to no end.
Fruit or vegetable? It has to be one or the other.
Sugar Cane is a grass.
A beet is a vegetable.
So, I guess it would depend on what you were consuming.
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I really dislike being a nitpicker about this, but some things need an answer.
"Carbohydrate" doesn't cut it.
What is sugar considered in its natural state, cane or beet--a fruit or a vegetable?
It has to be one or the other; I mean, hey, even walnuts are classified as one or the other, fruit or vegetable.
I really dislike being a jerk about this, because in reality I'm a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, but the question intrigues me to no end.
Fruit or vegetable? It has to be one or the other.
No question about it, coach. They are vegetables. Good, wholesome vegetables. The guys at the DUmp are fruits.
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Frank....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar
it's a crystal formed from a chemical change....its still a carbohydrate.
sugar grow on it's own....it's requires a chemical change of something else to become sugar.
Thank you, madam, and I kiss your feet, but I'm still not getting it.
The product of a walnut tree is a fruit.
Sugar is the product of either sugar cane or sugar beet.
Is the sugar cane or sugar beet a fruit, or a vegetable?
It seems I get really anal about this, but it so perfectly illustrates the dilemma of the deaf. Hearing people know such facts without having to ask about them, words and information and data teeming in the air like a horde of bees at them.
They pick up all of this stuff without having to ask for it.
It should be no wonder the deaf are generally considered only 20% as intelligent as the general run of the population; that's an inaccurate perception, but one can see why that perception exists.
Anyway, I'm headed out now to the big city, to drop off some work and pick up some new work, and while there, I guess I'll inquire.
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I really dislike being a nitpicker about this, but some things need an answer.
"Carbohydrate" doesn't cut it.
What is sugar considered in its natural state, cane or beet--a fruit or a vegetable?
It has to be one or the other; I mean, hey, even walnuts are classified as one or the other, fruit or vegetable.
I really dislike being a jerk about this, because in reality I'm a nice guy, one of the nicest guys one can ever hope to meet, but the question intrigues me to no end.
Fruit or vegetable? It has to be one or the other.
I'm not sure that it could be classified as definitely either, but my best guess would be to put it at vegetable. As sugar cane is a grass, and beets, at least the part for sugar, is the root, it wouldn't technically be a fruit; fruit being the seed structure of a flowering plant.
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Thank you, madam, and I kiss your feet, but I'm still not getting it.
The product of a walnut tree is a fruit.
Sugar is the product of either sugar cane or sugar beet.
Is the sugar cane or sugar beet a fruit, or a vegetable?
It seems I get really anal about this, but it so perfectly illustrates the dilemma of the deaf. Hearing people know such facts without having to ask about them, words and information and data teeming in the air like a horde of bees at them.
They pick up all of this stuff without having to ask for it.
It should be no wonder the deaf are generally considered only 20% as intelligent as the general run of the population; that's an inaccurate perception, but one can see why that perception exists.
Anyway, I'm headed out now to the big city, to drop off some work and pick up some new work, and while there, I guess I'll inquire.
I understand your point.....you want to know the "why" not just the "what"...
A beet is a root vegetable.
Sugar cane is a reed.
Honey ....which also produces sugar....is a byproduct of a flower/flowering bush or tree.
I think sugar probably falls under the category of one of those unexplainable things that happen in nature. We know what we get from something....but we don't know the how or why of it.
Don't ever say you lack intelligence, Frank.....you are probably way above most of us - not only in IQ but in knowledge....simply because you don't understand the concept we "hearing" people grew up with ....the "because I said so!" that we heard from our parents and teachers.
You have a personal quest to find out the specifics of how, why, where, what, who....and the accuracies of each..... whereas many of us, just accept the answers that we "hear" for those questions.
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Okay, I got my answer.
Even if it's not the right one, I'm eminently comfortable with it.
On my way to the big city, there was a large pick-up truck parked by the side of the highway, a guy in front of the truck. The license plate identified it as a farm truck, and so I figured here was someone who could answer the question.
The guy was busy disentangling the corpse of a dead deer speared on the front bumper and radiator; he said it had "six points," whatever that means. It was a, uh, rather large carcass, and he had to take it off piece-by-piece.
His truck was hardly damaged at all, he having had the foresight, after buying the vehicle a couple of years ago, to drive it down to Texas where there apparently exists a great many professional craftsmen who custom-build things so as to make them near-immune to destruction by deer.
So I asked him the question; is sugar a fruit or a vegetable.
He told me he grew cattle, not crops, but thought about it.
"Well, it seems to me beets are vegetables, and so sugar from beets would be a vegetable. Cane is a grass, like wheat, and the end-product of wheat is a fruit, so sugar from cane would be a fruit."
Whether that's the right answer or the wrong answer, I'm happy with it.
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You have a personal quest to find out the specifics of how, why, where, what, who....and the accuracies of each..... whereas many of us, just accept the answers that we "hear" for those questions.
This is what pissed me off about the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive (the "Treasonous Bastard" primitive) commenting on my not knowing what a "Nesco" roaster was.
It's in the thread here about the primitives discovering us.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive inferred a lack of intelligence on my part because I had no idea what a "Nesco" roaster was, or is.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive is a Democrat and a liberal, besides a primitive, and as we all know, Democrats, liberals, and primitives are more "conscious" of, more "sympathetic" to, the problems of "handicapped," while decent and civilized people are jerks.
We all know that; they tell us often enough.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive knows franksolich is deaf.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive would realize, long before decent and civilized people, that franksolich would have never heard the word "Nesco" in his life, and so therefore had no means of connecting it with any phenomenon known to him.
I've always suspected the Democrats, liberals, and primitives of blatantly lying about their "social consciousness," while decent and civilized people tend to be far far too too modest about theirs, and this was one more proof of this.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive has been on franksolich's excresence list since that rectal aperture of a comment, although it happened so recently I haven't yet decided how to handle it; by making the greasy son-of-a-trumpet primitive a PoP, or by coldly ignoring the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive.
It's not an urgent matter, but sooner or later, I'll figure out the best way of handling the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive, so as to make him rue his lack of social consciousness.
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The guy was busy disentangling the corpse of a dead deer speared on the front bumper and radiator; he said it had "six points," whatever that means. It was a, uh, rather large carcass, and he had to take it off piece-by-piece.
It was a male deer--a buck--and its' two antlers had a total of six pointy ends.
I just found out that, while up at the deer camp I belong to (and wasn't able to attend last week), that the cousin of the guy who owns the base 375 acres, shot a buck last weekend. Two shots--the first one knocked off an antler. The second one took care of the buck. (For the gun people, the cousin used an old Remington 760 in .300 Savage with a Leupold scope.)
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Whenever I think their glaring ignorance can't get any greater.......
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This is what pissed me off about the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive (the "Treasonous Bastard" primitive) commenting on my not knowing what a "Nesco" roaster was.
It's in the thread here about the primitives discovering us.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive inferred a lack of intelligence on my part because I had no idea what a "Nesco" roaster was, or is.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive is a Democrat and a liberal, besides a primitive, and as we all know, Democrats, liberals, and primitives are more "conscious" of, more "sympathetic" to, the problems of "handicapped," while decent and civilized people are jerks.
We all know that; they tell us often enough.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive knows franksolich is deaf.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive would realize, long before decent and civilized people, that franksolich would have never heard the word "Nesco" in his life, and so therefore had no means of connecting it with any phenomenon known to him.
I've always suspected the Democrats, liberals, and primitives of blatantly lying about their "social consciousness," while decent and civilized people tend to be far far too too modest about theirs, and this was one more proof of this.
The greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive has been on franksolich's excresence list since that rectal aperture of a comment, although it happened so recently I haven't yet decided how to handle it; by making the greasy son-of-a-trumpet primitive a PoP, or by coldly ignoring the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive.
It's not an urgent matter, but sooner or later, I'll figure out the best way of handling the greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive, so as to make him rue his lack of social consciousness.
Just as an FYI, Frank.....about those "Nesco's"....
My step grandmother lived in Council Bluffs Ia from the time she came over from Denmark in 1921 until she died in the late 80's.
My step mother was born in CB and lived there until she was 45 and married my dad and moved with us back to Northern IL from West Des Moines.
Both of them had the type of roasting oven the "greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive" is referring to as a "Nesco".
Now I have no idea if their's were made by Nesco or not, as they always referred to the appliance as the "turkey roaster" even if they cooked something else in it. It was never referred to as a "Nesco" as far as I know and since I was 13 when absorbed into that family....I think I would remember.
The other half grew up in Cincinnati .....he doesn't remember his mother or grandmother having one....but he's much older than me....( :evillaugh:)
I also have one.
I refer to it as the "turkey cooker".
It was made by "Rival"....... :-)
So to the "greasy son-of-a-strumpet primitive"......I think he should just go poop in his Nesco..... :uhsure:
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It was a male deer--a buck--and its' two antlers had a total of six pointy ends.
I just found out that, while up at the deer camp I belong to (and wasn't able to attend last week), that the cousin of the guy who owns the base 375 acres, shot a buck last weekend. Two shots--the first one knocked off an antler. The second one took care of the buck. (For the gun people, the cousin used an old Remington 760 in .300 Savage with a Leupold scope.)
I use a .300 Savage for deer hunting exclusively, unless it's archery or black powder. Believe it or not, I have a Model 760ADL (the fancier model with checkering). They are quite rare, as the 760 was chambered in .300 Savage for only a very brief time in the early '60s - '61-'62, I think. I also have a .300 Savage in a Remington Modeld 700 Classic, which was manufactured only in 2003. It's mild, pleasant to shoot, and drop-in-their-tracks deadly on whitetails.
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Just to add to the confusion - What is sugar ?
Glucose , Maltose , Fructose , Sucrose , Dextrose ....
Each are derived from different sources so each should really be considered differently to the others. Some the source is Animal , some Vegetable (including fruits), some "Other".
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Have you considered that sugar is neither vegetable nor fruit, but more properly considered a spice, in the same class with pepper? Vegetables and fruits are normally eaten for themselves. Spices, like sugar, are used to add flavor to fruits or vegetables.
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Have you considered that sugar is neither vegetable nor fruit, but more properly considered a spice, in the same class with pepper? Vegetables and fruits are normally eaten for themselves. Spices, like sugar, are used to add flavor to fruits or vegetables.
A couple of things that I remember from my bio courses waaaay back when . . .
1) If it has the suffix "ose," it's a sugar.
2) Sugars have carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen in them.
3) Glucose tastes good.
GOBUCKS, I would love to find a 700 in .300 Savage. I've already got a .30-06, a .308, and a .30-30. Taken deer with all of them. (Or, a Savage 99 in .300 Savage.)
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Have you considered that sugar is neither vegetable nor fruit, but more properly considered a spice, in the same class with pepper? Vegetables and fruits are normally eaten for themselves. Spices, like sugar, are used to add flavor to fruits or vegetables.
No, I never considered sugar as a spice, but you have kindly illuminated me.
But alas because a spice is something that grows out of the ground, it must be either a fruit or a vegetable.
I'm still sticking with the definition the rancher with the deer-killing truck told me.
As an aside, it's a very peculiar sort of life, being deaf; one knows what a thing is for, or how it works, long before one is told the name of the thing.
As the local mechanic will verify in real life, I tend to understand what a part in an engine does, and how it works, but always mess up when giving it a name.
It's embarrassing, always asking people for the name of something that one sees, as it gives the impression one is stupid.
When I get around to winning the Powerball lottery, one person I'm putting on the payroll is someone whose sole job is to tell me the names of phenomenons that one encounters in everyday life, so as to save me embarrassment and humiliation.
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GOBUCKS, I would love to find a 700 in .300 Savage. I've already got a .30-06, a .308, and a .30-30. Taken deer with all of them. (Or, a Savage 99 in .300 Savage.)
If you have the .308, you don't need the Savage - they're nearly the same, and if you reload, as I do, you can make them perform identically. I bought the 700 because I wanted a bolt gun, and I already have a lot of Savage brass. It is an excellent weapon, after you add on the cost of a trigger job, which should be done before you fire it the first time. The factory trigger pull is in the range of 10 lbs. - required I'm sure, by Remington lawyers, but nearly unusable.
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Just to add to the confusion - What is sugar ?
Glucose , Maltose , Fructose , Sucrose , Dextrose ....
Each are derived from different sources so each should really be considered differently to the others. Some the source is Animal , some Vegetable (including fruits), some "Other".
Table sugar, whether it be from beet or cane, is sucrose (C11H22O11), which is a disaccharide composed of one glucose (C6H12O6) and one fructose (C5H12O6).
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Just for the record, I have many years of experience in the kitchen, and I too never heard of a nesco roaster. Turkeys are roasted in the oven in a roasting pan.
I do have a Nesco dehydrator, with which I make the best beef jerky in the entire world.
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I had never heard of Nesco either. At first, I thought they were somehow referring to those chalk slivers the old folks would eat when they were kids before sugar was discovered.
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Just for the record, I have many years of experience in the kitchen, and I too never heard of a nesco roaster. Turkeys are roasted in the oven in a roasting pan.
I do have a Nesco dehydrator, with which I make the best beef jerky in the entire world.
I have a Rival roaster, Karin....they are WONDERFUL!!!
I have only used it for turkey or ham.....but it cooks faster and the meat is very moist.
I bought one because at the my old house I only had a single wall oven that was a pain to use at the holidays, because I couldn't put anything else in the oven until the turkey or ham was done. I could put the roaster in the laundry room on top of the dryer and it was out of the way and it cooked the turkey faster. I always stuff the turkey and it takes about an hour less time in the roaster. There's an inner liner pan that comes out making it easy to clean, though I usually use a roasting bag or one of the throw away aluminum pans too.
Walmart and Target have them for $49. Worth every penny.