The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: BillyDontLoseMyNumber on November 14, 2009, 03:35:36 PM
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Listen to this winey family, man these people just need to buck up and get over it, the insurance company was totally justified in dropping her, I mean who cares about peoples lives when there is a bottom line to think about. ::) ::)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343922/Survey-says-medical-debt-is-harming-families.html?linkTrack=rss-30
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Listen to this winey family, man these people just need to buck up and get over it, the insurance company was totally justified in dropping her, I mean who cares about peoples lives when there is a bottom line to think about. ::) ::)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343922/Survey-says-medical-debt-is-harming-families.html?linkTrack=rss-30
And had we had said public option we would still have Terri Shiavo with us too. Right??
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And had we had said public option we would still have Terri Shiavo with us too. Right??
And Christopher Reeve would still be alive and walking around just like John Kerry promised us.
Normal people go to church; liberals worship at the altar of big government and believe Congress can raise the dead.
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Just think , under 0BamaCare no one will be denied surgery and just given pain pills. We won't have to worry about some bureaucrat denying care or treatment, because money grows on trees for the federal government.
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Billy...honest question and asking for an honest answer.
What do you define or believe the "public option" to be?
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And Christopher Reeve would still be alive and walking around just like John Kerry promised us.
Normal people go to church; liberals worship at the altar of big government and believe Congress can raise the dead.
Only in Chicago during an election year!! :naughty:
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Billy...honest question and asking for an honest answer.
What do you define or believe the "public option" to be?
What I would like to see is a public option that would assure that it Insurance companies would not be able to deny coverage to people like the example in the article, right now insurance companies have far to much power and pull in saying what they will and will not cover because there is no comepetition. Say the famiy in this article was to go try to go to another company for insurance, the same thing would happen and they would be denied coverage. A public option would make insurance companies produce a better quality product and a better price or face going out of business and situations like the one described in the article would stop.
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What I would like to see is a public option that would assure that it Insurance companies would not be able to deny coverage to people like the example in the article, right now insurance companies have far to much power and pull in saying what they will and will not cover because there is no comepetition. Say the famiy in this article was to go try to go to another company for insurance, the same thing would happen and they would be denied coverage. A public option would make insurance companies produce a better quality product and a better price or face going out of business and situations like the one described in the article would stop.
That is what you want a public option to do but that doesn`t define the terms of what a public option is..that is what I am asking.
What is the public option by definition?
Is it an insurance plan that has a reserve pool of monies from premium payments or is it a printing press without any insured contribution?
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That is what you want a public option to do but that doesn`t define the terms of what a public option is..that is what I am asking.
What is the public option by definition?
Is it an insurance plan that has a reserve pool of monies from premium payments or is it a printing press without any insured contribution?
The way I understand it from what I have read, it is a system from premium payments to provide people not covered by insurance either because of disability or financial standing a cheaper Goverment run option.
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What I would like to see is a public option that would assure that it Insurance companies would not be able to deny coverage to people like the example in the article, right now insurance companies have far to much power and pull in saying what they will and will not cover because there is no comepetition. Say the famiy in this article was to go try to go to another company for insurance, the same thing would happen and they would be denied coverage. A public option would make insurance companies produce a better quality product and a better price or face going out of business and situations like the one described in the article would stop.
Ah, so the answer to the problem of people giving away too much of their own personal power and control to a large, faceless entity is to give even more personal power and control to an even larger and less sympathetic entity. I see now. Your argument has instantly turned me into a liberal.
I shall now go out and buy a pink dress and yell incoherently at soldiers and Republicans.
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The way I understand it from what I have read, it is a system from premium payments to provide people not covered by insurance either because of disability or financial standing a cheaper Goverment run option.
So who pays these 'premiums' and what are they based upon, have you come across this in your reading?
By the way, why do I keep seeing ads for supplemental insurance to cover "what Medicare does not"? (Usually run by AARP). (http://www.medicare.gov/medigap/Default.asp) What's up with that??
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The way I understand it from what I have read, it is a system from premium payments to provide people not covered by insurance either because of disability or financial standing a cheaper Goverment run option.
How then will private insurance "compete" if it is cheaper and just relies on cranking up the presses to offset revenue shortfalls?
Who will pay those premiums...will there be a cut off or a differing rate based on income?
Why would a government run plan be cheaper?
Would it restrict the amount it will pay for a procedure or restrict a procedure totally if it isn`t going to spend borrowed money?
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The way I understand it from what I have read, it is a system from premium payments to provide people not covered by insurance either because of disability or financial standing a cheaper Goverment run option.
I am curious about the thinking behind the idea that because such-n-such program is "government run" people will not be denied treatment. History shows us that making oneself a liability to the public treasury is always a terrible idea.
A private insurer can include some exclusions in the contract with which you may not agree, and you can accept these things or move on. But once you are covered, you have a contract. Agreed upon coverage cannot be denied. Your premium due date is the insurer's payday.
The government can deny treatment and change the law as the wind blows. Your death is the government's payday.
Why would any thinking intelligent adult be in favor of a government-run anything?
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We need public-run car insurance too. Hate to see someone dropped or have to give up their daily latte's after they have a few DUI's.
::)
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We need public-run car insurance too. Hate to see someone dropped or have to give up their daily latte's after they have a few DUI's.
::)
I would say a valid point and there is in NY at least a public option under those circumstances..it is called the "risk pool" with substantially higher premiums.
Billy fwiw is interacting and discussing here so hope we can continue.
My feeling is that Billy like a lot of folks on the left have mixed up the term "public" with "free" so want to see just how much he understands of the thing out of curiosity.
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I would say a valid point and there is in NY at least a public option under those circumstances..it is called the "risk pool" with substantially higher premiums.
Billy fwiw is interacting and discussing here so hope we can continue.
My feeling is that Billy like a lot of folks on the left have mixed up the term "public" with "free" so want to see just how much he understands of the thing out of curiosity.
Obama/Pelosi don't want the higher premiums. They think that's evil.
My dad died waiting for a heart transplant. I spent 25 of the first 28 years of my life in hospitals with him. He would be the last person for public option. And I'm tired of people thinking they deserve something for nothing or bitching about having to pay for insurance while refusing to give up their lattes, Wii, dining out, cable, internet, etc. I'm tired of paying the amount of taxes I do - and knowing it will increase $10K+ with this bill - while others live off of me. I'm angry and this bill has nothing to do with making insurance cheaper - even the CBO admits it. So I have no problem telling people to f-off when it comes to this issue. :-)
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Obama/Pelosi don't want the higher premiums. They think that's evil.
My dad died waiting for a heart transplant. I spent 25 of the first 28 years of my life in hospitals with him. He would be the last person for public option. And I'm tired of people thinking they deserve something for nothing or bitching about having to pay for insurance while refusing to give up their lattes, Wii, dining out, cable, internet, etc. I'm tired of paying the amount of taxes I do - and knowing it will increase $10K+ with this bill - while others live off of me. I'm angry and this bill has nothing to do with making insurance cheaper - even the CBO admits it. So I have no problem telling people to f-off when it comes to this issue. :-)
That is what I am trying to get Billy here to see on the idea he has never thought about it but heard "public" so thought it meant free.
If he is reasonably thoughtful he will see that what he presumes is false.
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That is what I am trying to get Billy here to see on the idea he has never thought about it but heard "public" so thought it meant free.
If he is reasonably thoughtful he will see that what he presumes is false.
Makes me wonder if Silly Billy knows the difference between PUBLIC OPTION AND
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Single_Payer_Protester.JPG/450px-Single_Payer_Protester.JPG)
SINGLE PAYER??
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The public option in Britain...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/10/08/article-1218927-06BB9062000005DC-931_468x406.jpg)
Plumber with shattered arm left horrifically bent out of shape has operation 'cancelled four times'
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 10:42 PM on 08th October 2009
Comments (210) Add to My Stories
A plumber whose arm was left twisted grotesquely out of shape in an accident ten months ago has had an operation to correct it 'cancelled four times'.
Torron Eeles, 50, has been left unable to work since falling down the stairs and now fears he may lose his home after being denied incapacity benefit.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1218927/Plumber-shattered-arm-left-horrifically-bent-shape-operation-cancelled-times.html#ixzz0Wt9VCuU2
Smoker refused operation on broken ankle
Published: 12:01AM BST 14 Sep 2007
A smoker is facing years of pain after an NHS hospital refused to set his broken ankle unless he gives up cigarettes.
John Nuttall, 57, needs the operation to fix the ankle he broke in three places two years ago and which was not healed by a plaster cast.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1563108/Smoker-refused-operation-on-broken-ankle.html
This would be SO much better than a system where anyone can walk into any not-for-profit emergency room and demand treatment for any condition regardless of their ability to pay. ::) ::)
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The public option in Britain...
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/10/08/article-1218927-06BB9062000005DC-931_468x406.jpg)
This would be SO much better than a system where anyone can walk into any not-for-profit emergency room and demand treatment for any condition regardless of their ability to pay. ::) ::)
That would not have happened here in the US. Even more telling about government care is that he is still suffering despite the media scrutiny.
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That would not have happened here in the US. Even more telling about government care is that he is still suffering despite the media scrutiny.
Our system isn't perfect...but it's better than the "free" healthcare that puts every liberty at the mercy of government's latest whims.
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I think the government should print enough money to make everybody millionaires while we're at it.
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Listen to this winey family, man these people just need to buck up and get over it, the insurance company was totally justified in dropping her, I mean who cares about peoples lives when there is a bottom line to think about. ::) ::)
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705343922/Survey-says-medical-debt-is-harming-families.html?linkTrack=rss-30
Hey, shit for brains--having a terminally ill father and a mother who needs constant care, I can tell you where they would have been long ago under Obumble's and Pelosi's "plan".
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So who pays these 'premiums' and what are they based upon, have you come across this in your reading?
By the way, why do I keep seeing ads for supplemental insurance to cover "what Medicare does not"? (Usually run by AARP). (http://www.medicare.gov/medigap/Default.asp) What's up with that??
Shhhhh...don't. You're confusing him with facts. And if you told him that's probably the main reason they supported this cluster :censored: of a "health care" bill, his head might explode.
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I really am hoping Billy comes back and will engage and discuss here.
So many on the left haven`t a clue what they are begging for and what it will mean,they just think it will free up resources for them.
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Sorry, but after 40 years of unbridled liberalism and all the lies and bullshit that goes along with it, anyone who can't look back and see what it will bring about is too stupid to be allowed to contaminate the gene pool, IMNSHO.
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Shhhhh...don't. You're confusing him with facts. And if you told him that's probably the main reason they supported this cluster :censored: of a "health care" bill, his head might explode.
Is Silly Billy our Phil Collins fan just a "One Hit Wonder" or did his head go ka-poof?? Facts do that to liberals like kryptonite to Superman I guess. They always seem to confuse their f-words, you know, facts > feelings. Sad really but mostly due to public education.
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I really am hoping Billy comes back and will engage and discuss here.
So many on the left haven`t a clue what they are begging for and what it will mean,they just think it will free up resources for them.
Ok Im back, I do have a life. I was out this weekend driving my alternative fuel car and drinking soy-milk :naughty:. So please enlighten me, why will this plan me so horrible, because the only excuses I have heard from the right is "I will take way or freedoms" which is confsing to me because a public option, is an option, that means you dont have to take the OPTION. Also, if this plan is so bad, then what do we do? Because if it stays like this in about ten years only the richest 10% of Americans will be able to afford an kind of healthcare.
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(http://alanisgood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/do_not_feed_trolls.jpg)
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Ok Im back, I do have a life. I was out this weekend driving my alternative fuel car and drinking soy-milk :naughty:. So please enlighten me, why will this plan me so horrible, because the only excuses I have heard from the right is "I will take way or freedoms" which is confsing to me because a public option, is an option, that means you dont have to take the OPTION. Also, if this plan is so bad, then what do we do? Because if it stays like this in about ten years only the richest 10% of Americans will be able to afford an kind of healthcare.
So BDLMN ... answer me this. If the insurance companies are making a 2% profit how in the heck is the government option going to save anyone, anywhere any money? I mean ... if they are only making 2% profit how is the government going to save us money? They can't run anything yet everyone thinks they should be able to run health care in ANY form or fashion? Really?
KC
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So BDLMN ... answer me this. If the insurance companies are making a 2% profit how in the heck is the government option going to save anyone, anywhere any money? I mean ... if they are only making 2% profit how is the government going to save us money? They can't run anything yet everyone thinks they should be able to run health care in ANY form or fashion? Really?
KC
Where di you get the stat that insurance companies are making only 2% profit?
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Ok Im back, I do have a life. I was out this weekend driving my alternative fuel car and drinking soy-milk :naughty:. So please enlighten me, why will this plan me so horrible, because the only excuses I have heard from the right is "I will take way or freedoms" which is confsing to me because a public option, is an option, that means you dont have to take the OPTION. Also, if this plan is so bad, then what do we do? Because if it stays like this in about ten years only the richest 10% of Americans will be able to afford an kind of healthcare.
"Option" is "public option" as "temporary" is to "temporary income tax".
All socialism is built on lies. Socialism is always a failure. Socialism robs people of their freedoms. We know these things. These are not opinions. These are facts. We all know it. You can lie about it, but lies do not trump or change reality. So, why would you or anyone who considers themselves to be somewhat intelligent support the cause of socialism?
I REALLY want to know. Why?
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"Option" is "public option" as "temporary" is to "temporary income tax".
All socialism is built on lies. Socialism is always a failure. Socialism robs people of their freedoms. We know these things. These are not opinions. These are facts. We all know it. You can lie about it, but lies do not trump or change reality. So, why would you or anyone who considers themselves to be somewhat intelligent support the cause of socialism?
I REALLY want to know. Why?
Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
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Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
The government option will lead to having no other options in several years. This is just the first step towards single payer, and most thinking people can see that.
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Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
I have and they do....the intellectual ones understand the difference. It takes an independent brain to understand, and I think that leaves you out (no offense intended).
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Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
Don't have to ask them. All we have to do is see the large numbers that come to this country because they can get treatment and care here taht they CAN'T under the system YOU think we need to have.
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Don't have to ask them. All we have to do is see the large numbers that come to this country because they can get treatment and care here taht they CAN'T under the system YOU think we need to have.
Yes, like I have said many times, if the goal of socialism/liberalism was really to make people's lives better, the socialist/liberals would be fighting tooth and nail to keep the USA as steeped in capitalism as possible. The USA has been for the last 65 years the piggy bank which has allowed the silly little nations of the world to wriggle in their socialist shitholes. No one who "cares" about people would be for the USA coming down to the shithole level. Who is going to pay for the grown up stuff?
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Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
There is a name for creatures that are provided warm housing, food, kept safe, medicated and kept from over-exerting themselves:
veal calves
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Veal calves: they get harvested:
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.
As a result the scheme is causing a “national crisis†in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.
“Forecasting death is an inexact science,â€they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death “without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.
“As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html
Keep in mind, this isn't some faceless insurance company padding its profit-margin, this is a government that has the power of a modern nation-state.
You can always change insurance providers but government bureaucracies never change.
If you can show us the gov't program where service improves and costs go down then maybe you have a case for why we should even consider this oncomeing train wreck but such a gov't program doesn't exist.
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Ok Im back, I do have a life. I was out this weekend driving my alternative fuel car and drinking soy-milk :naughty:. So please enlighten me, why will this plan me so horrible, because the only excuses I have heard from the right is "I will take way or freedoms" which is confsing to me because a public option, is an option, that means you dont have to take the OPTION. Also, if this plan is so bad, then what do we do? Because if it stays like this in about ten years only the richest 10% of Americans will be able to afford an kind of healthcare.
First off is the nature of the public option..will it be a true competitive plan or a subsidized one that isn`t worried about paying its way?
You think it will be cheaper...tell me how or why it can be and provide the same coverage or better unless it cranks up the printing presses.
Please also back up your assertion regarding insurance and percentages in the next 10 years.
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Where di you get the stat that insurance companies are making only 2% profit?
How about take a look here (http://www.lockergnome.com/swordofdestiny/2009/08/13/are-these-evil-for-profit-health-insurance-companies-really-so-evil/) then tell us what you think they make?
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Name one thing the government runs efficiently.
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Ok Im back, I do have a life. I was out this weekend driving my alternative fuel car and drinking soy-milk :naughty:. So please enlighten me, why will this plan me so horrible, because the only excuses I have heard from the right is "I will take way or freedoms" which is confsing to me because a public option, is an option, that means you dont have to take the OPTION. Also, if this plan is so bad, then what do we do? Because if it stays like this in about ten years only the richest 10% of Americans will be able to afford an kind of healthcare.
So, what cup size are you up to now?
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So, what cup size are you up to now?
Does it matter if it still has a sippy lid?
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Does it matter if it still has a sippy lid?
sorry, should have been more precise. What BRA cup size?
(soy milk has phytoestrogens that can cause men to grow breasts)
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Im not trying to make a case for socialism, ths is an OPTION. Why dont you ask people in Sweden or Canada if they feel like their freedoms are gone.
Why don't you ask people in Canada how that freedom of speech thingy is going for them.
Oh wait--silly me, they don't have it like we do. Canadian content laws, can't get American news networks, and God (or Allah) help you if you say something bad about someone, lest you be dragged in front of their "Human Rights Commissions", aka witch hunts.
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I have health insurance. My wife, child and myself have never been turned down for treatment. My wife has chronic fatigue, which causes all kinds of minor problems. As a matter of fact, her doctor is and has been trying all kinds of medical treatments because she is a "worst case senario".
She's never been turned down or dropped by our insurance.
The whole healthcare crisis meme is bullshit.
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The way I understand it from what I have read, it is a system from premium payments to provide people not covered by insurance either because of disability or financial standing a cheaper Goverment run option.
Will their annual premium payments exceed the annual outlay the public option must pay out? If so, that's not insurance. That's just another gov't giveaway.
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Why don't you ask people in Canada how that freedom of speech thingy is going for them.
Oh wait--silly me, they don't have it like we do. Canadian content laws, can't get American news networks, and God (or Allah) help you if you say something bad about someone, lest you be dragged in front of their "Human Rights Commissions", aka witch hunts.
Yeah ask Mark Styen about those witch hunts.
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Where di you get the stat that insurance companies are making only 2% profit?
It was all over the news less than a month ago. Here are some quotes;
Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries. It is not at all surprising that other health sectors did far better — drugs and medical products and services were both in the top 10.
HealthSpring, the best performer in the health insurance industry, posted 5.4 percent; that mark proved less than Tupperware, Clorox bleach and Molson and Coors beers.
UnitedHealth Group, reporting third quarter results last week, saw a better picture; it obtained a 5 percent profit margin on an 8 percent growth in revenue.
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/price/091029
There's the link I got that information from. I'm sure you can find it elsewhere. Why vilify the insurance companies? Are they not allowed to make any profit? Can the government do better? If so how?
Just curious.
Thanks,
KC
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The core problem with government-run health care is that it doesn't make decisions in the best interests of patients, but in the best interests of government. One need only look at the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence, which rations care in England, to see how the Obamacares' medical commissions will be run. These commissions, as outlined in the Baucus bill, are mandated to go after "sources of excess cost growth," meaning treatments that are too expensive or whose coverage will boost spending. Until 2019, the commission will be limited to only heavily regulating Medicare Advantage. But after 2019, such limits are off — which also happens to be roughly the time when ObamaCare's spending explodes. So, for instance, if researchers find a pricey treatment for Alzheimer's in 2020, that might be banned because it would add new costs and bust the global budget. Or it might decide that "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller," as President Obama put it in June.
The only way to take the politics out of health care and bring the costs down are to give individuals more power to control medical dollars. And the first step should be not to create even more government spending commitments.
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Where di you get the stat that insurance companies are making only 2% profit?
CNN among other places.
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CNN among other places.
Where do you get off trying to dismiss his talking points with facts?
For SHAME!
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Where do you get off trying to dismiss his talking points with facts?
For SHAME!
Yeah... I really should stop using facts and rely more on touchy feely bullshit like the liberals do.
Naw..... Guess not.