The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: Peter3_1 on November 13, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
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(http://www.hrw.org/en/sites/default/files/imagecache/scale-300x/media/images/photographs/Khalid-Mohammed.jpg)
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is to stand trial in a civilian court in New York along with the other 9/11 suspects who were being held in the US military prison in Cuba.
The five were being prosecuted at Guantanamo, but Barack Obama's administration has pledged to close it.
Mohammed, Waleed bin Attash, Ramzi Binalshibh, Mustafa Ahmad al Hawsawi and Ali Abd al Aziz Ali are accused of orchestrating the attacks that killed 2,973 people in 2001.
Mohammed told interrogators he masterminded the deadly strikes, which involved hijackers crashing passenger planes in New York and Washington.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/September-11-Mastermind-Khalid-Sheikh-Mohammed-In-Guantanamo-Bay-Facing-New-York-9-11-Trial/Article/200911215452898
Five shipped to NYC for CIVILIAN trial from Gitmo. Including Moussaui . The creep Holder is facing the public while Barry ( I have a gift) wows them in Asia!Not to mention just having flat rejected the Afganistan mil. pland offering nothing for guidance .
Barry should be fired. hE IS COMPLETELY INCOMPETENT and surrounds himself with equally incompetent advisors.
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These trials should turn into two-more-years-plus cluster****s now. Wouldn't surprise me if there are some acquittals due to the fact that coping with civilian criminal law evidence rules in a Federal court were the last thing on anyone's mind when these guys were captured.
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Welcome to our justice system :mental:
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I worry for anyone who has to live near there. That will be the most dangerous area on Earth while those trials are going on. This is probably one of the most incredibly stupid stunts I have ever seen.
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This could get really ugly....
1. they've been imprisoned for 6 yrs with no charges filed in federal court....violates the right to a speedy trial.
2. they were "tortured" to get info.....human rights issue. :sarcasm:
3. held without formal federal charges....I think there's a time limit of 72 hrs where something must be filed.
4. they will be able to plead the 5th....
5. past deeds will not be able to be mentioned unless the judge rules them admissable.
those were just ones I thought of off the top of my head....may not be totally correct, but I think a defense lawyer could use them....
edited by me to clarify the torture comment....
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I worry for anyone who has to live near there. That will be the most dangerous area on Earth while those trials are going on. This is probably one of the most incredibly stupid stunts I have ever seen.
One must remember that they will be in the midst of those that voted overwhelmingly for "Hope and Change".........I would have little pity for these folks if the results of their election choice came back to bite them in the ass..........
doc
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I worry for anyone who has to live near there. That will be the most dangerous area on Earth while those trials are going on. This is probably one of the most incredibly stupid stunts I have ever seen.
Terrorists hit weakness, not strength. Any demands may have to do with these guys, but the heavy security around the trials will make the actual site one of the least likely targets.
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And now, it's time for another episode of...
"What Could Possibly Go Wrong?"
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Terrorists heat weakness, not strength. Any demands may have to do with these guys, but the heavy security around the trials will make the actual site one of the least likely targets.
They are so politically correct in NY they'll let the terrorists walk right into the courtroom! Heavy security my ass! You might see an increased presence, but what will their orders contain? Besides, it's not like they're going to be military, the guys who actually have the appropriate training.
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I'll be surprised if they don't set them free.
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Welcome to our justice political system :mental:
fixed for you.
Holder is a moron.
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fixed for you.
Holder is a moron.
That's a compliment... :censored:
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Too bad we can't give them flying lessons over the Atlantic.
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What good does it do to capture enemy combatants, if all that's going to happen is that they will be read their Miranda Rights, flown to the States, and be tried in a civilian criminal court?
Troop morale In Country just dropped 50%. Thank you Dear Leader.
p.s.-Didja ever notice how these big decisions are announced on fridays when Dear Leader is away? Hmmmmm....
The Cloward-Piven Strategy of Orchestrated Crisis strikes again.
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Deb...,
Tortured.......wish they had been, but there was nothing done to him/them that was not and has not been done in military training. Further, it continues to go on.
I say, some might be "difficult" to endure if you are not familiar with the way, or are a big wave surfer, but it is not torture.
Torture is what the Japaneese did in WW2 not what has been done here since at least 1966 in E&E exercises.
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fixed for you.
Holder is a moron.
Thanks :evillaugh:
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Deb...,
Tortured.......wish they had been, but there was nothing done to him/them that was not and has not been done in military training. Further, it continues to go on.
I say, some might be "difficult" to endure if you are not familiar with the way, or are a big wave surfer, but it is not torture.
Torture is what the Japaneese did in WW2 not what has been done here since at least 1966 in E&E exercises.
Peter....I will go back and put "tortured" in parentheses...and add the sarcasm smilie. Thanks....
I was referring the the "assumed" torture that the defense would use....not that I felt that they had really been tortured.
Personally, if someone had held blowtorches to the bottom of their feet...I would feel that it was justified.
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Peter....I will go back and put "tortured" in parentheses...and add the sarcasm smilie. Thanks....
I was referring the the "assumed" torture that the defense would use....not that I felt that they had really been tortured.
Personally, if someone had held blowtorches to the bottom of their feet...I would feel that it was justified.
That is too nice I would rather them be hung by their nuts
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Shouldn't they have been tried a long time ago right after they were caught in military court. Having a trial in New York is not a good idea. It's going to be a real mess.
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This will just enable the media to put the Bush Admin and the CIA on trial and ratchet up the BDS again, while providing cover for Obama. It's going to be a circus.
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This will just enable the media to put the Bush Admin and the CIA on trial and ratchet up the BDS again, while providing cover for Obama. It's going to be a circus.
I think you've hit on the whole purpose for bringing them to NYC.
Listening to Fox this afternoon....Obama might just have stepped into doo=doo up to his armpits instead.
Rudy Guiliani was on Cavuto...to say he's upset is an understatement.
These terrorists could very well end up going free.....
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This could get really ugly....
1. they've been imprisoned for 6 yrs with no charges filed in federal court....violates the right to a speedy trial.
2. they were "tortured" to get info.....human rights issue. :sarcasm:
3. held without formal federal charges....I think there's a time limit of 72 hrs where something must be filed.
4. they will be able to plead the 5th....
5. past deeds will not be able to be mentioned unless the judge rules them admissable.
those were just ones I thought of off the top of my head....may not be totally correct, but I think a defense lawyer could use them....
edited by me to clarify the torture comment....
But they're not US citizens and shouldn't be tried as such. They should receive the same justice Daniel Pearl received, televised too. Some scumbag lawyer is going to get them off on a technicality.
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Oh, and a jury of their peers? Chris Matthews and Bill Ayers aren't New Yorkers
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But they're not US citizens and shouldn't be tried as such. They should receive the same justice Daniel Pearl received, televised too. Some scumbag lawyer is going to get them off on a technicality.
No they aren't US citizens....but they ARE going to be tried as such.
And the chance that they will get off on a technicality ....after being at Gitmo for 6 years....is probably pretty strong.
To say this sucks is such an understatement.... :maddernhell:
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Shouldn't they also be tried in Arlington and Shanksville 9/11 happened there also? Anyways, this opens a Pandora's Box and I fear this will be a media circus. Not a good thing. I wonder why it took so long and why the military didn't try them immediately?
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OJ Simpson type trial Part Deux
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OJ Simpson type trial Part Deux
I hate that. I remember the OJ Simpson Trial. What a mess. :mental: Judge Lance Ito fell asleep and he should of been removed, along with Marcia Clark.
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I hate that. I remember the OJ Simpson Trial. What a mess. :mental: Judge Lance Ito fell asleep and he should of been removed, along with Marcia Clark.
Agreed, Marcia Clark was too busy banging her asst. DA instead of focusing on the Trial.
If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit....that stupid slogan worked.
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Another dumb Zero moment.
He has 3 more years to keep making them.
We are soooo screwed.
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OJ Simpson type trial Part Deux
This is a million times worse than OJ.
It boggles my mind, pisses me off and frightens the hell out of me that they may get off. :banghead: :banghead:
I take back what I thought on election night that Obama winning wasn't the end of the world. Every action he and his goons have taken is moving us towards the end of the world as we know it. I never thought that we would coddle terrorists, tax everyone to death in a recession, force people to buy govt approved health insurance, and be labeled as domestic terrorists. Meanwhile the white house won't even say the word terror or terrorist its all man made disasters. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
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If he's acquitted and some nutjob gives him a lead headache upon leaving the courthouse, I will find it very difficult to muster up outrage at the act.
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If he's acquitted and some nutjob gives him a lead headache upon leaving the courthouse, I will find it very difficult to muster up outrage at the act.
I won't even try to muster up outrage.
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If he's acquitted and some nutjob gives him a lead headache upon leaving the courthouse, I will find it very difficult to muster up outrage at the act.
Who says that the person that does it is necessarily a nutjob? :uhsure:
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And this, courtesy of National Review (and Real Clear Politics):
The Corner
Friday, November 13, 2009
Holder's Hidden Agenda, cont'd . . . [Andy McCarthy]
This summer, I theorized that Attorney General Eric Holder — and his boss — had a hidden agenda in ordering a re-investigation of the CIA for six-year-old alleged interrogation excesses that had already been scrutinized by non-partisan DOJ prosecutors who had found no basis for prosecution. The continuing investigations of Bush-era counterterrorism policies (i.e., the policies that kept us safe from more domestic terror attacks), coupled with the Holder Justice Department's obsession to disclose classified national-defense information from that period, enable Holder to give the hard Left the "reckoning" that he and Obama promised during the 2008 campaign. It would be too politically explosive for Obama/Holder to do the dirty work of charging Bush administration officials; but as new revelations from investigations and declassifications are churned out, Leftist lawyers use them to urge European and international tribunals to bring "torture" and "war crimes" indictments. Thus, administration cooperation gives Obama's base the reckoning it demands but Obama gets to deny responsibility for any actual prosecutions.
Today's announcement that KSM and other top al-Qaeda terrorists will be transferred to Manhattan federal court for civilian trials neatly fits this hidden agenda. Nothing results in more disclosures of government intelligence than civilian trials. They are a banquet of information, not just at the discovery stage but in the trial process itself, where witnesses — intelligence sources — must expose themselves and their secrets.
You have to go to the link to read the rest. Suffice it to say that Holder and Obama just made New York State a "purple" one in 2012.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NTVkN2ZhMTU0NzcwYWVmYTNmODI1ZTJjMTA1ZDFiODQ=
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Prediction.
At least one of the 5 - more likely 2 - will be acquitted or a mistrial will be declaired due to evidence or how evidence was obtained. Obama will then come on line and apologize to America, claiming that it was Bush tactics that caused the acquittal or mistrial. From there, he will announce an investigation into Bush and his administration under the guise that it CAUSED the acquitals and/or mistrials and that there was nothing the Obama administration, despite their valiant attempts, could do to prevent it because of the agregiousness (sp?) of the Bush-era policies.
From there, one of the terrorists will be assasinated, and the perpetrator will face life in prison.
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"Man Made Disaster" is what the Obema admin and the Dem. Congress is making of America. STOP!
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Would it be possible for the next republican president to order an investigation of the current misdeeds of the this DOJ and Holder?
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Would it be possible for the next republican president to order an investigation of the current misdeeds of the this DOJ and Holder?
0bama's opened the door...
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0bama's opened the door...
Now if we can just get him to do that while Air Force One is in flight.
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Senator Obama in 2006: Try KSM in a military tribunal
Rick Moran
Breitbart TV dug up this old video of then Senator Obama supporting the idea of a military trial for KSM.
Obama assured the senators that terrorists like KSM would not receive the same rights as American criminals get, that he would certainly be tried in a military court "with all the bells and whistles."
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/senator_obama_in_2006_try_ksm.html
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I heard on one of the morning news shows this morning....that he was waterboarded 180+ times....and it's possible that any admissions or info obtained from him after ....could be inadmissable.
If that's the case..... plus I also heard on the same show - when he was captured he asked for a lawyer - and I don't know if he was given access to one prior to waterboarding....I would think there would be a strong argument by a defense lawyer, under the Miranda guidelines...for acquital.
A war criminal/terrorist can not - should not be given the same rights as a US citizen who goes out and commits a crime.
It's not apples to apples/oranges....it's more like comparing an apple to an elephant.
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Waterboarded once and only once. Was brought into a room with the equipment three more times, and he sang like a canary all times.
CIA counted waterboarding all the prisioners in an odd way. Every time one wetted the face cloth, it was counted. So, one session with, say, a trained SEAL , if the cloth was wetted 20 times, it APPEARS as if it were 10 sessions to those deprived of the definitions.
The terrorists gave it all up in ONE session with a MAXIMUM of 4 applications of a very few ounces of water to the cloth. Liberal persistant lies become "truth" because news departhents are sloppy and careless.
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Waterboarded once and only once. Was brought into a room with the equipment three more times, and he sang like a canary all times.
CIA counted waterboarding all the prisioners in an odd way. Every time one wetted the face cloth, it was counted. So, one session with, say, a trained SEAL , if the cloth was wetted 20 times, it APPEARS as if it were 10 sessions to those deprived of the definitions.
The terrorists gave it all up in ONE session with a MAXIMUM of 4 applications of a very few ounces of water to the cloth. Liberal persistant lies become "truth" because news departhents are sloppy and careless.
Once is all it would take to exclude any evidence derived from it in a Federal trial, directly or indirectly, and under the circumstances, it's hard to see how Miranda would not apply to preclude admission everything after "I want a lawyer," not just in his case but in any the case of any of his co-conspirators where evidence derived from his singing was used to develop other evidence.
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Which is EXACTLY why a Military Tribunal is where this murdering SOB needs to be! This is a WAR with islamofascist terrorism, not someone killed in a mugging! Downtown NYC in a civiliam courtroom is utter MADNESS!!! They are at WAR WITH US! Thanks to the complete nits currently in control of DC, our government no longer ia at war with them!!!!
It shows a mindbogglingly profound ignorance of the nature of this enemy. An ignorance that is either cognitive dissonance willful or the result of the purest stupidity on display since the declaration "Peace in our time" was made.
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Which is EXACTLY why a Military Tribunal is where this murdering SOB needs to be! This is a WAR with islamofascist terrorism, not someone killed in a mugging! Downtown NYC in a civiliam courtroom is utter MADNESS!!! They are at WAR WITH US! Thanks to the complete nits currently in control of DC, our government no longer ia at war with them!!!!
It shows a mindbogglingly profound ignorance of the nature of this enemy. An ignorance that is either cognitive dissonance willful or the result of the purest stupidity on display since the declaration "Peace in our time" was made.
QFT
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QFT
If they treated any of these sand-rats according to an honest reading of the laws of war then they would have to admit that we are at war with an enemy that is cowardly, deceitful, criminal and brutal...
...and that might admit that the US holds the higher moral ground.
Unless America can be shown to be morally wrong each and every time then the entire basis for liberals efforts in America at every turn may become unravelled.
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(http://www.moonbattery.com/WTC-Court-Case.jpg)
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I have a REALLY stupid question...WTF is this being tried civally? Why is this not in criminal court?
Isn't civil court for people who want money?
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I have a REALLY stupid question...WTF is this being tried civally? Why is this not in criminal court?
Isn't civil court for people who want money?
I think, at least hope that it just means in a non-military court.
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I think, at least hope that it just means in a non-military court.
Exactly; the a correct term to use would be that it is being tried in a 'Federal civilian criminal court,' which is admittedly a bit cumbersome.
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Exactly; the a correct term to use would be that it is being tried in a 'Federal civilian criminal court,' which is admittedly a bit cumbersome.
Ok...that makes a bit more sense. thanks