The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Breaking News => Topic started by: formerlurker on November 12, 2009, 07:51:25 AM
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Conservative Doug Hoffman conceded the race in the 23rd Congressional District last week after receiving two pieces of grim news for his campaign: He was down 5,335 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted on election night, and he had barely won his stronghold in Oswego County.
As it turns out, neither was true.
But Hoffman’s concession -- based on snafus in Oswego County and elsewhere that left his vote undercounted -- set off a chain of events that echoed all the way to Washington, D.C., and helped secure passage of a historic health care reform bill.
Democratic Rep. Bill Owens was quickly sworn into office on Friday, a day before the rare weekend vote in the House of Representatives. His support sealed his party’s narrow victory on the health care legislation.
Now a recanvassing in the 11-county district shows that Owens’ lead has narrowed to 3,026 votes over Hoffman, 66,698 to 63,672, according to the latest unofficial results from the state Board of Elections.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html
My my my -- we may have to redo the house vote on health care kids........
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Oh my.
This could get interesting.
Hey folks, the whole article at the link is well worth reading; don't just rely on what we're saying here.
This could be very interesting.
Thanks, lurks.
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Oswego County elections officials blame the mistakes on "chaos" in their call-in center that included a phone system foul-up and inspectors who read numbers incorrectly when phoning in results.
Jerry Eaton, the Republican elections commissioner for Jefferson County, said inspectors found a problem in four districts where Hoffman’s vote total was mistakenly entered as zero.
Convenient mistakes, eh?
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Convenient mistakes, eh?
ACORN strikes again.
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From World Power to Banana Republic in less than ten months.
For "Barrio" Obama the legacy builds day by day. :loser:
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Might explain why the polling seemed to be off compared to the results.
If it doesn`t change anything in the end then so be it but is interesting how once again voting irregularities when actual always benefit the dem.
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My my my -- we may have to redo the house vote on health care kids........
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/its_not_over_recanvassing_shows_ny23_race.html
Is it a real possibility that they would have to redo the health bill count again if Hoffman pulls this out?
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That would be nice if the wholething could be thrown out and redone but it wont happen only wishful thinking
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No idea what the house rules on this is -- no time to research it until later. The state has not certified the election yet due to the discrepancies in this county's reporting.
Hoffman gain on Owens now triggers the 10K absentee ballots, which this article states will favor Hoffman. The state will then certify Hoffman as the winner, which is a hurdle that Pelosi can't overcome and try to circumvent (as Congress attempted accomplished in 1984 -- the state did certify erroneous results at that time).
There was an unqualified member on the floor of the House for the vote on healthcare -- if anything the vote can be challenged causing major delays in passage if it gets approved in the Senate.
Definite popcorn moment.
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Well that explains the rush to swear Owens in.
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I sent the link to Drudge, as that's the only way the primitives on Skins's island will know about it.
Maybe Drudge will use it. It's worth a try.
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:popcorn: before breakfast...a first...lol
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"We sent a letter to the clerk laying out the totals," Conklin said. "The key is that Hoffman conceded, which means the race is not contested. However, all ballots will be counted, and if the result changes, Owens will have to be removed."
I think the Dimrats will try to say that Hoffman's concession was the same as withdrawing from the race, and that the vote tally really doesn't matter.
Under a new law in New York that extended deadlines, military and overseas ballots received by this coming Monday (and postmarked by Nov. 2) will be counted.
Still, it seems like Hoffman might get the push he needs to win the ballot contest, if not the seat itself.
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Oh sure, now we get the absentee ballots counted, after the damage has been done (health care bill). This absentee ballot thing seems to be the cause of more headaches and controversy... How about we just do away with them and instead make elections last for about a week or so instead of just one day?
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Still down by 3K. Not sure if that makes enough of a difference.
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Whoa ho.
It made Drudge, the exact same link I sent them (although I am claiming no credit).
Now maybe it'll discombobulate the primitives.
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It wouldn't change the HCR vote outcome. On top of that, even with the three changed votes it would theoretically take to change the outcome in the House, only some of the Dems who voted against it are actually hard on their votes, the rest are soft and using 'Indulgences' passed out by the Speaker and to let them take a bye on it. If she didn't have enough votes to pass it, she would have reeled in a couple more of them "For the good of the Party."
My own pet rock is RTKBA, and this is exactly why I have a very difficult time ever supporting a Dem even when the NRA rates them highly, because I do not trust them to remember and then pick their principles and constituents over their Party loyalty (and Party campaign support) once they get to DC.
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ACORN strikes again.
And the left-stream media.
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With Owens already sworn in (holy crap, that was fast!), you can bet your life that he and the Democrats will fight tooth and nail to keep the seat if Hoffman comes out ahead in the final vote tally. They will, of course, argue "Hoffman conceded!" and "Owens has already been sworn in!" while hypocritically ignoring the votes they supposedly are so concerned with.
Honestly, though, I have to say that Hoffman's quick concession betrays his lack of election experience, which is unfortunate. He should've waited and this news shows why. The Democrats pulls so much crap both at the polls and in the media that nothing can be trusted until the very end.
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Ok I'm curious here...has the election even been certified by the NY SecState or board of elections or whom ever says "this election is official"?
If so...why the recanvass of votes after the fact.
If it hasn't recieved the official stamp of approval why was Owens even sworn in?
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I can't wait to hear the "Bush Stole Election" rhetoric over there in comparison to this story. I guarantee that's where their arguments will go.
:lmao:
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Ok I'm curious here...has the election even been certified by the NY SecState or board of elections or whom ever says "this election is official"?
No, it's not certified yet.
As for your next question, I dunno.
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No, it's not certified yet.
As for your next question, I dunno.
Sounds to me then like he isn't "officially" sworn in and that Stretch Pelosi...knowing this...hustled him up there so she could have one more vote on Obamacare...rules be dammed.
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I can't wait to hear the "Bush Stole Election" rhetoric over there in comparison to this story. I guarantee that's where their arguments will go.
:lmao:
But isn't it all Bush's fault? :sarcasm:
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The best we can hope fore is that they would invalidate Owens' vote on the HCR bill, which would still give them the bill. Cao in Louisiana went ahead and voted for it when he saw they had the 218 they needed.
But still, Owens broke four of his campaign promises in his first hour in office, so I would still get satisfaction seeing him ridden out of Congress on a rail.
Hoffman should demand a formal recount right now, so that Owens cannot vote on any more crap until he is actually certified the winner.
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I can't wait to hear the "Bush Stole Election" rhetoric over there in comparison to this story. I guarantee that's where their arguments will go.
:lmao:
Ask and ye shall receive:
Posted by magus12
November 12, 2009, 9:01AM
Snort. Treason? Thanks for the laugh. How about 2000 when Bush was appointed by the reactionary U.S. Supreme Court after brother Jeb scrubbed the Florida voter rolls of people who were never felons? Or the 2004 election he stole thanks to Karl Rove and the Ohio Secretary of State who arranged that entire precincts that go Democratic were left without voting machines or machines that "mysteriously" converted Kerry votes to Bush? Even that wasn't treason. It was just plain felonious.
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Ask and ye shall receive:
Wow. That didn't take long. Any discussion that, after all the votes were counted by every news organization on the planet, BUSH STILL WON?????
:lmao:
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Ok I'm curious here...has the election even been certified by the NY SecState or board of elections or whom ever says "this election is official"?
Not certified. Not official.
If it hasn't recieved the official stamp of approval why was Owens even sworn in?
Why do you think? Bela Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats are liars and cheats.
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Wow. That didn't take long. Any discussion that, after all the votes were counted by every news organization on the planet, BUSH STILL WON?????
:lmao:
An easy explanation for that...It's the Right-Wing MSM...for instance, CNN and NBC.
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Wow! Here I was just doing some boring accounting work, and I decided to pop over to CC to see what's up for a sec. Local news has no further analysis than the link at this time. I'll listen to the local radio show from the mayor (an independent/libertarian) and see what he says.
I agree that Hoffman conceded too soon. He had some experienced staffers, so it was puzzling. That's a lot of absentee ballots, and a lot of those were military.
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Wow. That didn't take long. Any discussion that, after all the votes were counted by every news organization on the planet, BUSH STILL WON?????
:lmao:
Yep. :-)
Posted by rustyschucklefurd
November 12, 2009, 10:29AM
The claim that "Bush stole the 2000/2004 elections" is a total myth. It has been proven to be totally bogus by every major media (even CNN, ABC, CNBC, MSNBC). All the media went to Florida after the 2000 election and also did the same for Michigan in 2004 HOPING to find evidence to support the "stolen election" claim. They found zip. If they had you can be sure they would have howled about it non-stop.
Posted by pergammon
November 12, 2009, 10:49AM
People like Magus don't care about facts. Neither do they care about counting every vote as they constantly pontificate.
That last one is me. (Got the login from bugmenot.com.)
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Holy cow! Here's all of magus12's posts on that website:
http://connect.syracuse.com/user/magus12/index.html
The guy(?) has got to be a DUmmy. I asked on the site, but I doubt he'll respond.
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Oh sure, now we get the absentee ballots counted, after the damage has been done (health care bill). This absentee ballot thing seems to be the cause of more headaches and controversy... How about we just do away with them and instead make elections last for about a week or so instead of just one day?
And just what do you do to aid the military folks or other people who can't make it to the polls during that week?? What I think is that we ought not to publish the election results until ALL ballots are counted and make SURE that ALL ballots are counted, including the absentee ballots.
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Okay, now this very same story is red on Drudge.
The last I checked, it had been black.
Maybe the primitives will notice it now.
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And just what do you do to aid the military folks or other people who can't make it to the polls during that week?? What I think is that we ought not to publish the election results until ALL ballots are counted and make SURE that ALL ballots are counted, including the absentee ballots.
Yeah, that's the one major flaw in my crazy idea. Still, there does need to be some kind of change to eliminate all of these problems. Maybe they shouldn't start counting any of the votes until after the all absentee ballots are in instead of immediately after the polls close.
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Okay, now this very same story is red on Drudge.
The last I checked, it had been black.
Maybe the primitives will notice it now.
They have noticed and the thread was quickly moved from the "latest breaking" to "election reform". http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x514501
Why ? Are the mods trying to hide the news?
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They have noticed and the thread was quickly moved from the "latest breaking" to "election reform". http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x514501
Why ? Are the mods trying to hide the news?
Because its embarrassing and they know the DUmmies will do a 180 from their position in 2000.
"But Owens is already sworn in! The recount doesn't matter!"
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Special Keith should be very interesting tonight.
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Special Keith should be very interesting tonight.
So should Beck....
I seem to remember hearing that some Dems were regretting their vote earlier in the week. It had to have been Fox interviews....but I can't remember details.....
Maybe it's just wishful thinking..... :-)
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Not much word on the local front. Just people going "Hmmmm.....Hmmmmm."
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Okay, now this very same story is red on Drudge.
The last I checked, it had been black.
Maybe the primitives will notice it now.
Great move getting it to him Frank for the exposure -- Beck should cover this today hopefully.
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So the lesson here is...NEVER concede to a democrat until ALL votes are counted!
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I don't believe concession has any legal significance, it merely indicates an early acknowledgement of the probable outcome...and that there will not be a contest of the counted votes, as things stand at that point.
There are modern examples of concessions being withdrawn when the fortunes appeared to change in the late stages of voting, as I recall...did not manbearpig do something of the sort?
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I dunno what happened to my comment, but it seems to have evaporated.
My wisest, most insightful, comments seem to have a habit of doing that.
Anyway, there's not much one can hope for no matter the final official count of the ballots.
The House of Representatives chooses its own members.
Usually the House accedes to the popular vote, but there have been exceptions.
There was one, in Indiana, in the late 1970s or early 1980s, where the Democrat candidate was seated in the House as the legitimate congressman even though the Republican candidate had won the election. I disremember who that was, but remember all too well Tipsy O'Neill saying the House, not the voters, had the final say on who got into their club.
One can see--and expects--Bela Pelosi doing the same thing.
But whatever, it's going to be a good show to watch anyway.
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I dunno what happened to my comment, but it seems to have evaporated.
My wisest, most insightful, comments seem to have a habit of doing that.
Anyway, there's not much one can hope for no matter the final official count of the ballots.
The House of Representatives chooses its own members.
Usually the House accedes to the popular vote, but there have been exceptions.
There was one, in Indiana, in the late 1970s or early 1980s, where the Democrat candidate was seated in the House as the legitimate congressman even though the Republican candidate had won the election. I disremember who that was, but remember all too well Tipsy O'Neill saying the House, not the voters, had the final say on who got into their club.
One can see--and expects--Bela Pelosi doing the same thing.
But whatever, it's going to be a good show to watch anyway.
The state of Indiania had certified the results in that example (with erroneous data). There is a difference as it prompted Congress to call for their own recount.
NY has not certified the results, and as such Congress has no recourse to circumvent the state's election results. If Pelosi refuses to seat Hoffman (should he win) it can and probably will go to SCOTUS with Congress losing.
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The state of Indiania had certified the results in that example (with erroneous data). There is a difference as it prompted Congress to call for their own recount.
NY has not certified the results, and as such Congress has no recourse to circumvent the state's election results. If Pelosi refuses to seat Hoffman (should he win) it can and probably will go to SCOTUS with Congress losing.
If Hoffman wins and the DimRats try any shenanigans with Pelosi leading their actions, that would spell doom for the Dimrats during next years elections. IMO She has little support among the general populace and people know the only way to unseat her is to rid the HOR of the Dimrat majority.
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The state of Indiana had certified the results in that example (with erroneous data). There is a difference as it prompted Congress to call for their own recount.
Do you by chance remember who that was, madam?
I also remember a long-time liberal Democrat congressman from Indiana getting upset by a Republican--I think this was during the 1980 Reagan landslide--and the guy had a cow about it for years. But that wasn't anything to do with this case.
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Do you by chance remember who that was, madam?
I also remember a long-time liberal Democrat congressman from Indiana getting upset by a Republican--I think this was during the 1980 Reagan landslide--and the guy had a cow about it for years. But that wasn't anything to do with this case.
1984. McIntyre is the one who won, but McCloskey was seated.
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If Hoffman wins and the DimRats try any shenanigans with Pelosi leading their actions, that would spell doom for the Dimrats during next years elections. IMO She has little support among the general populace and people know the only way to unseat her is to rid the HOR of the Dimrat majority.
Good point. She pushes it, she could lose her position as House leader.
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1984. McIntyre is the one who won, but McCloskey was seated.
Thank you much, madam.
I ripped out a large number of brain-cells trying to remember, but failed.
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Posted by rustyschucklefurd
November 12, 2009, 10:29AM
The claim that "Bush stole the 2000/2004 elections" is a total myth. It has been proven to be totally bogus by every major media (even CNN, ABC, CNBC, MSNBC). All the media went to Florida after the 2000 election and also did the same for Michigan in 2004 HOPING to find evidence to support the "stolen election" claim. They found zip. If they had you can be sure they would have howled about it non-stop.
Ahh, but it wasn't proven and certified by DU. :lalala:
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Huh? How is it allowed to even be sworn in until the vote is certified?
I wonder if Hoffman will push this, and how hard.
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Huh? How is it allowed to even be sworn in until the vote is certified?
I wonder if Hoffman will push this, and how hard.
Conklin said the state sent a letter to the House Clerk last week explaining that no winner had been determined in the 23rd District, and therefore the state had not certified the election. But the letter noted that Owens still led by about 3,000 votes, and that the special election was not contested -- two factors that legally allowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to swear in Owens on Friday.
Of course Pelosi would have raced to swear him in no matter what.
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two factors that legally allowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to swear in Owens on Friday.
I'd like to see the text of the law that allegedly allows it.
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That would be nice if the wholething could be thrown out and redone but it wont happen only wishful thinking
Hi,
I doubt they would re do the house bill; however it aint over. The house and senate would have to reconcile if the bill passes the senate and their is no guarantee that it would pass the house a second time.
regards,
5412
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Ahh, but it wasn't proven and certified by DU. :lalala:
DU is certifiable.
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Heard today the spread is down to under 2,000 votes with abt 9,000 absentee ballots uncounted. If they are military, he stands a chance. If they are "just folks" votes, he prolly will not.
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Heard today the spread is down to under 2,000 votes with abt 9,000 absentee ballots uncounted. If they are military, he stands a chance. If they are "just folks" votes, he prolly will not.
What I keep reading is far less rosy - that the lead has only shrunken to 2950 or so, and there are just over 5 thousand left to count.
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Maybe Senator Franken has some lawyers he can loan to Owen. :whatever:
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Any updates on this story?
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Any updates on this story?
I've been trying to follow this saga. Most indications are it will be back in the news, for good or bad, tomorrow.
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Any updates on this story?
Not yet. The left-stream media is surprisingly predictably being tight-lipped about the election results now after being quick to call the race for Owens.
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acorn got how many
new voters" registere in thhe 23rd?
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Has a verdict been released on this issue yet?
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Has a verdict been released on this issue yet?
The last news is that Owens is actually gaining votes, and that the differential may be greater than the remaining ballots. I expect there will be a re-concession tomorrow.
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Partial recount has narrowed the margin, some disrticts have been removed from owen and added to Hoffman win column.Military absentee still uncounted at all. GASP!!!!Democrat fraud suspected in the original count, as unbelievable as that seems!!!
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Partial recount has narrowed the margin, some disrticts have been removed from owen and added to Hoffman win column.Military absentee still uncounted at all. GASP!!!!Democrat fraud suspected in the original count, as unbelievable as that seems!!!
ACORN: Where every nut counts (votes).
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Partial recount has narrowed the margin, some disrticts have been removed from owen and added to Hoffman win column.Military absentee still uncounted at all. GASP!!!!Democrat fraud suspected in the original count, as unbelievable as that seems!!!
Ive not seen any of this anywhere - the last I have read was a 3000+ vote gap, and less than 900 ballots left to count.
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It's fascinating to watch the liberals now dismiss claims of election fraud and electronic voting machine errors. I guess those things only happen when the Democrat loses.
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2009/11/21/hoffman_claim/
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It's fascinating to watch the liberals now dismiss claims of election fraud and electronic voting machine errors. I guess those things only happen when the Democrat loses.
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2009/11/21/hoffman_claim/
Yup same thing applies to voting margins. Republican wins by a large margin = Voter Apathy or fraud...Democrat wins by 2% = Mandate by the people.
:whatever:
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ELECTRONIC VOTING was reported, wrongly, for Hoffman as zero in some districts. Now, it was more than one. Sure smells of fraud to this old poll watcher.
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ELECTRONIC VOTING was reported, wrongly, for Hoffman as zero in some districts. Now, it was more than one. Sure smells of fraud to this old poll watcher.
I also heard on the radio that the other two candidates, Owens and Scuzzbucket, had their votes recorded just fine in those same districts.