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Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Carl on November 11, 2009, 06:20:17 PM

Title: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Carl on November 11, 2009, 06:20:17 PM
Quote
Nederland  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:09 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
   People around here say health care is a right. What about the other necessities of life? Food? Clothing? Shelter? Should society guarantee that people receive these things even if they can't afford them?
   Poll result (104 votes)
Yes, people have a right to food, clothing and shelter.    (88 votes, 85%)   Vote
No, people should have to work to provide the basic necessities of life.    (16 votes, 15%)   Vote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6975824

There you have it.

Quote
slackmaster  (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, but not everyone is entitled to have someone else pay for them
   Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 08:12 PM by slackmaster


Should society guarantee that people receive these things even if they can't afford them?

I think safety nets can be good, as long as they are reserved for the truly destitute and don't encourage people to give up on supporting themselves.
   

Not going to go over well slacky

Quote
Warren Stupidity  (1000+ posts)          Mon Nov-09-09 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Yeah we have to careful or there will be another outbreak of welfare cadillac queens
   Rightwing Thought is infectious. I blame 40 years of concerted media brainwashing myself.

Quote
bikingaz (63 posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. how much are you willing to pay for me to stay home & do nothing?
   What is your limit?

Quote
Warren Stupidity  (1000+ posts)          Mon Nov-09-09 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. I think my marginal rate is like 35-36% and I am ok with that.
   In fact I would be most happy to divert hundreds of billions poured annually into the MIC cesspool toward decent welfare benefits for all in need.

Sure...you are at the top of the tax brackets. :whatever:

Quote
treestar  (1000+ posts)          Tue Nov-10-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
62. I don't actually have a problem with that.
   If people didn't work because they had the basics, they would still provide jobs for others by purchase of the basics and would just not get more than that. Seeing other people have more than that can be just as motivating.

Nomination for stupidest post of the day.

Quote
The_Commonist  (668 posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. To get better food, clothing and health care?
   I think the idea that if one gets the basic necessities, then one doesn't have an incentive to work is silly. The vast majority of people would still work to have a better life.

It is what the DUmp hopes and dreams for because once they have that then the next rung on the ladder will also be demanded.

Quote
wuushew (1000+ posts)        Mon Nov-09-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. people who drop out of the consumerist society probably have a lower carbon footprint
   is laziness worse than overconsumption? Mother Earth would probably say no.

Please feel free to stop consuming anything.

Quote
pitohui  (1000+ posts)         Tue Nov-10-09 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
52. of course, it's impossible for everyone to work
   Edited on Tue Nov-10-09 12:11 PM by pitohui
it is just nonsense, first of all, there are not worthwhile jobs for everyone, we have automation and we will have more in the future -- we are going to have to accept that not everyone can work, either that, or we will have to accept some kind of mass murder (which is to me unacceptable) -- sure we're getting rid of plenty of testosterone fueled males by shipping them out to foreign countries but it isn't really working all that well because we still have too many bodies and too few j-o-b JOBS

once even little children and the very old either had to work or beg, now we accept that the children, the old, the disabled, etc. should not be expected to work (it would be impossible for them to earn enough to service by working anyway, esp. in the cases of small children and the frail old)

we're still angry and bitter when a supposedly able-bodied guy can't find work and i guess the guy is supposed to either stick a gun in our face or die, personally i would rather the guy not be asked to stick a gun in my face to survive but our society has decided that we won't help single young/middle-aged males -- the demographic most likely to become aggressive and criminal if they have nothing useful to do -- i don't see the sense of it

we just don't accept the reality of a world where there are millions more people than jobs which i think is just plain stupid

i guess we could have "make work" jobs but our society is unwilling to fund even needed "make work" jobs like improving roads, bridges, levees, etc. -- we don't want to give jobs to anyone, then we turn around and yell at them for not having jobs

screwy

the tiny minority who "choose" not to work are doing a favor to the overwhelming majority that desperate wants and needs a job and, too often, can't find one -- altho i doubt any real "choice" is often involved, i think that's just a pride/ego saver -- the person from the ghetto background who "chooses" not to work because no one he knows works and can give him a recommend, and he speaks in non-standard english (if he speaks english at all) so no stranger will hire him -- hmmm, was there ever any choice here? 80% of jobs are found through personal referral. EIGHTY ****ING PERCENT. they had this stat on yahoo/jobs just yesterday or the day before...choice is a joke, it's abt contacts and having the right parents, professors, and so on

I have to rethink that nomination for stupidest post of the day now.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: TheSarge on November 11, 2009, 06:28:21 PM
Sadly...what the DUmmies think "basic rights" entails and what the FF's idea of "basic rights" was....are galaxies apart.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: thundley4 on November 11, 2009, 06:34:17 PM
Quote
it is just nonsense, first of all, there are not worthwhile jobs for everyone, we have automation and we will have more in the future -- we are going to have to accept that not everyone can work,

DUmmies support illegal immigrants because they take low paying jobs, that people on welfare may be forced to take.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: DixieBelle on November 11, 2009, 06:47:38 PM
My head hurts from reading that.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Lord Undies on November 11, 2009, 06:53:59 PM
The only basic "right" anyone has is to the air he breathes, and the folks behind that funny looking puppet in the White House are trying to take even that away from us.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: jinxmchue on November 11, 2009, 06:55:27 PM
DUmpthought: "basic right" = the right to sit around on one's ass doing nothing other than crying "GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!"
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Carl on November 11, 2009, 07:02:53 PM
It is hard to grasp the inanity of the primitives.
They actually believe that if you provided "basic" needs then everyone would happily work for better.

Okay...let me ask any lurkers to sign up and answer a question.

If a basic fulfillment of this was a daily supply of potato soup and bread served in a room with four walls,a bed and a toilet with enough clothes to wear for two days while two more were being washed would you be content that your needs were met and demand nothing more?

Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: thundley4 on November 11, 2009, 07:11:31 PM
Quote
If a basic fulfillment of this was a daily supply of potato soup and bread served in a room with four walls,a bed and a toilet with enough clothes to wear for two days while two more were being washed would you be content that your needs were met and demand nothing more?

I wouldn't have much problem if my tax dollars went to that kind of welfare. I'd even through in a daily multivitamin and meat once  or twice a week.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: USA4ME on November 11, 2009, 08:31:46 PM
Quote from:
The_Commonist

To get better food, clothing and health care?
 
I think the idea that if one gets the basic necessities, then one doesn't have an incentive to work is silly. The vast majority of people would still work to have a better life.

Knowing full you you don't have the ability to think, I still say to you "Think again, dimwit!"  Everyone gets free food, shelter, and clothing, so what reason do they have to lift a finger?  Answer:  They won't.  The only reason to get up and do anything is when it suddenly occurs to everyone that enough food isn't going to grow itself.  And then I assure you the ones doing all the work to grow the food won't share it with all the lazy bums still lying around waiting for their free meal.

Yeah, make food, shelter and clothing a "right."  Congo will look like a city of gold compared to what we'll look like.

Morans.

.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: tuolumnejim on November 11, 2009, 08:34:04 PM
Yet another thread of useless oxygen stealing f***ing morons, all I want for Christmas is for them to stop stealing oxygen.  :-)
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 11, 2009, 08:44:24 PM
Yet another thread of useless oxygen stealing f***ing morons, all I want for Christmas is for them to stop stealing oxygen.  :-)

Here at VRWC Labs, we now have the technology to grant your wish, Ma'am.

(http://blog.foolsmountain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/megamaid-spaceballs.jpg) :II:
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chump on November 11, 2009, 08:45:39 PM
Any right, "basic" or not, can't come at a cost to the rights of someone else.  It's that simple.  That's why DUmmies are wrong, every time, about everything.  Their very first thought is wrong, if you can call that inane drivel thinking.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: dandi on November 11, 2009, 09:32:45 PM
A right is an activity one can exercise that requires no effort or sacrifice on the part of anyone else. Any government-mandated benefit one receives which requires involuntary effort or sacrifice on someone else's part is an entitlement.

You have no "right" to what is mine, be it money, food, clothing, shelter, property, labor, whatever, just because you were born in the same country as I or have less than I. I may elect to be charitable and give stuff to you, or laws may be passed with or without my consent which redistribute my wealth to you through taxation, but you don't have a "right" to jack shit that belongs to me
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 11, 2009, 10:25:09 PM
The "I'm so po" stories are out of control. It amazes me to know end the way they think.

The right.  As if.   :rotf:
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: LC EFA on November 11, 2009, 10:47:47 PM
They have a "right" to those things in so far as they cannot be denied them if they have the means to obtain them.

They seem to get confused between "must be provided" and "cannot be denied".

Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Rebel on November 11, 2009, 10:58:40 PM
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: BlueStateSaint on November 12, 2009, 04:19:47 AM
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:

Someday, when living conditions are Zimbabwe-like, they'll figure that out.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: md11hydmec on November 12, 2009, 06:54:25 AM
Someday, when living conditions are Zimbabwe-like, they'll figure that out.

That's the problem with socialism or even liberalism. It wants everyone equal, equally miserable.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: whiffleball on November 12, 2009, 07:06:39 AM
I had to row over to see if the Bobbling One had shown up and sure enough, even though she only gets to be on the computer at the library, here she comes:



bobbolink  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Mon Nov-09-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out"
   
but provide the painless means to do so.

Clearly, if we aren't worth being kept alive, then we aren't wanted, and should be allowed to leave this mess.

Face up to what YOUR values are.


Oh, poor, poor Bobbolink!  She can't even afford the means to shuffle herself off this mortal coil without government assistance.  I'm certain she'd be the first to queue up for ObamaCare provided painless lethal injections for the worthless.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Duchess on November 12, 2009, 07:25:30 AM
I had to row over to see if the Bobbling One had shown up and sure enough, even though she only gets to be on the computer at the library, here she comes:



bobbolink  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Mon Nov-09-09 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out"
   
but provide the painless means to do so.

Clearly, if we aren't worth being kept alive, then we aren't wanted, and should be allowed to leave this mess.

Face up to what YOUR values are.


Oh, poor, poor Bobbolink!  She can't even afford the means to shuffle herself off this mortal coil without government assistance.  I'm certain she'd be the first to queue up for ObamaCare provided painless lethal injections for the worthless.

If this loser expended as much energy on getting a job and doing it well in order to keep it, as she does on moaning at the DUmp, and looking for yet more ways to scam producers out of the fruits of their labor through government "entitlements", she could have a fairly good life.  I'd like to know where these losers' "rights" would be if all the people in the US who actually work for a living, just sat down and said "forget it, I have enough for me and my family, I'm tired of subsidising lazy parasites". If only that was possible. Our thieving government, starting with Wilson's "temporary" income tax to pay for WWI, made sure that would never be possible. The more my family is forced to pay in "taxes" (stolen money, labor, and time), the less I have of "compassion".
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 12, 2009, 08:35:23 AM
Good God, some of those f'n idiots need to have their voting rights revoked.

He DUmbasses, it takes working people to make the world go round, you f'n idiots.  :censored:

voting rights?  I move to have their entire heads revoked!  Srsly, I agree with Dixiebelle - the post made my head hurt.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: jtyangel on November 12, 2009, 09:29:09 AM
A right is an activity one can exercise that requires no effort or sacrifice on the part of anyone else. Any government-mandated benefit one receives which requires involuntary effort or sacrifice on someone else's part is an entitlement.

You have no "right" to what is mine, be it money, food, clothing, shelter, property, labor, whatever, just because you were born in the same country as I or have less than I. I may elect to be charitable and give stuff to you, or laws may be passed with or without my consent which redistribute my wealth to you through taxation, but you don't have a "right" to jack shit that belongs to me


Well said, I may have to quote you dandi so my liberal friends can understand this basic difference(since they still cry right, right, right at every turn).
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: AllosaursRus on November 12, 2009, 10:42:32 AM
Read this and weep, DUmbasses!

Quote
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I don't see "food clothes and shelter" anywhere in there, but knowing how you asshats think, they must be in the "certain unalienable Rights" quote, right?

Oh, and "Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of happiness", ARE the "necessities of life", dipshit!
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: USA4ME on November 12, 2009, 10:48:41 AM
Quote from:
bobbolink

If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out" but provide the painless means to do so.

How much does a 50 caplet bottle of Tylenol cost?  Less than $10, I suspect.

.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 12, 2009, 10:57:48 AM
How much does a 50 caplet bottle of Tylenol cost?  Less than $10, I suspect.

.


Actually, she could just find a nice high bridge........it would also be "free"......

doc
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Thor on November 12, 2009, 11:04:59 AM
One of the things I have a problem with is that ANY hunting MUST be done with a "license". We should NOT be required to obtain a hunting license in order to survive. Given that, one could "survive" IF they were able to hunt without hindrance. It seems to me that we must "pay" in order to kill one of the King's animals. The rights that I would think that were appropriate would be the right to survive and do whatever is within the 10 Commandments to do so. I also think that Government land, owned by the PEOPLE shouldn't be restricted to anybody as far as camping, hunting, fishing, etc by the imposition of "fees". Lake Texoma (½ a mile away from me) is controlled by the State AND Federal Government. In order to do most anything on or about the lake, one MUST have license or pay a fee (other than just pleasure boating). In order to do any hunting or fishing locally, I must obtain "the Kings Permission" by acquiring a license. Ohh , and in MY county, one CANNOT hunt a deer with a gun, one must use a bow.......  :whatever:

Other than that, I don't believe we have a "right" to anything else.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on November 12, 2009, 11:25:46 AM
One of the things I have a problem with is that ANY hunting MUST be done with a "license". We should NOT be required to obtain a hunting license in order to survive. Given that, one could "survive" IF they were able to hunt without hindrance. It seems to me that we must "pay" in order to kill one of the King's animals. The rights that I would think that were appropriate would be the right to survive and do whatever is within the 10 Commandments to do so. I also think that Government land, owned by the PEOPLE shouldn't be restricted to anybody as far as camping, hunting, fishing, etc by the imposition of "fees". Lake Texoma (½ a mile away from me) is controlled by the State AND Federal Government. In order to do most anything on or about the lake, one MUST have license or pay a fee (other than just pleasure boating). In order to do any hunting or fishing locally, I must obtain "the Kings Permission" by acquiring a license. Ohh , and in MY county, one CANNOT hunt a deer with a gun, one must use a bow.......  :whatever:

Other than that, I don't believe we have a "right" to anything else.
I'm all for buying tags provided the cost covers little more than the admin fees required, i.e. Price of a tag = cost fo employing X persons to sell tags over Y number of days...even less if provided through established private commercial retailers that have already figured labor into their op costs.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 12, 2009, 01:10:02 PM
I'm all for buying tags provided the cost covers little more than the admin fees required, i.e. Price of a tag = cost fo employing X persons to sell tags over Y number of days...even less if provided through established private commercial retailers that have already figured labor into their op costs.

Don't know where Thor lives, but here, no licenses or fees are required to hunt or fish on one's own land, and so far as licenses for hunting and fishing elsewhere are concerned, the fees are directed (by the state Constitution) toward maintaining the hunting and fishing wildlife areas, and paying the salaries of those who do that job........these fees also pay to provide a number of very nice state-owned shooting ranges around that all are welcome to use at no charge.......I can't find much in this scenario to object to.......

doc
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: SSG Snuggle Bunny on November 12, 2009, 01:15:22 PM
Don't know where Thor lives, but here, no licenses or fees are required to hunt or fish on one's own land, and so far as licenses for hunting and fishing elsewhere are concerned, the fees are directed (by the state Constitution) toward maintaining the hunting and fishing wildlife areas, and paying the salaries of those who do that job........these fees also pay to provide a number of very nice state-owned shooting ranges around that all are welcome to use at no charge.......I can't find much in this scenario to object to.......

doc
I concur.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Duchess on November 12, 2009, 01:38:18 PM
Read this and weep, DUmbasses!

I don't see "food clothes and shelter" anywhere in there, but knowing how you asshats think, they must be in the "certain unalienable Rights" quote, right?

Oh, and "Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of happiness", ARE the "necessities of life", dipshit!

The Founding Fathers seemed to take care to specify "the pursuit of happiness" rather than just "happiness", and even at that the DUmmies still can't comprehend.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Carl on November 12, 2009, 01:46:40 PM
The Founding Fathers seemed to take care to specify "the pursuit of happiness" rather than just "happiness", and even at that the DUmmies still can't comprehend.

It requires action on their part is why.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: GOBUCKS on November 12, 2009, 02:46:25 PM
Quote
bobbolink  Donating Member  (1000+ posts)     Mon Nov-09-09 09:47 PM
35. If we are to be deprived of the basic necessities of life, then not only allow people to "check out"
   
but provide the painless means to do so.

Well, the dirty, smelly, homeless bum DUmmy bobbolink one time said she lived inside a car. She should panhandle a couple of bucks for some gas, then scavenge dumpsters until she finds an old garden hose, put one end in the exhaust pipe and the other end through a window. Problem solved, at no further cost to the taxpayers.

If she lurks here, she can consider that free advice.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: BlueStateSaint on November 12, 2009, 06:07:16 PM
The Founding Fathers seemed to take care to specify "the pursuit of happiness" rather than just "happiness", and even at that the DUmmies still can't comprehend.

Exactly.  You have the right to pursue happiness, but you have to catch it yourself.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: vesta111 on November 12, 2009, 06:27:28 PM
Exactly.  You have the right to pursue happiness, but you have to catch it yourself.

EEEEEK, I believe a law has been past that one now has to have a license to fish in the freigin Ocean and salt water rivers.

This in no way effects those willing to pay $50.00 to go out for 6 hours on a charter boat.It is said that if you" feed a hungry man he will allways be hungry. If you teach him to fish he is set for the rest of his life"

Not in today's world, that man who is hungry cannot afford to buy a license every year to fish in Gods Ocean.  Oh well, arrest him, take away his stick, line and hook, lock the sucker up for a few months, he will get 3 square meals, clean clothing, and a bed to sleep in.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Rebel on November 12, 2009, 06:54:16 PM
ALL for licenses and the DNR. Don't always agree with every decision, they f'ed me on the Snapper season this year, went from April-October to June-August, but they do serve a purpose. Without limits, you'd have 50 thousand Bubbas out there catching as much fish as they could and depleting the supply. ...and they would wind up wasting most of it. How about Deer without a limit? Most people that hunt deer, while they do eat the meat, are still out for trophies. 8 point isn't big enough? Well keep trying 'til you get that Boone and Crockett record. Go ahead, there's no limit. Now multiply that guy by about 500 thousand people.

We need to preserve our primitive food supply. If it comes down to it, and the shit hits the fan, I don't think anyone will be out there worrying about trophies anyway.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: LC EFA on November 12, 2009, 09:08:12 PM
...


We need to preserve our primitive food supply. If it comes down to it, and the shit hits the fan, I don't think anyone will be out there worrying about trophies anyway.

Depends on what animal we decide to harvest the trophy from.  :-)
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Rebel on November 12, 2009, 09:23:18 PM
Depends on what animal we decide to harvest the trophy from.  :-)

I'm all for trophies, but if you get a 12 point instead of a 16 point, I don't think you should be allowed to go out and kill as many deer as you can until you get it. Again, multiply that by about 500K bubbas. We have driven other species to damn near extinction before. Buffalo used to roam all over the Midwest. Now they're all sitting on their fat asses eating grass on Ted Turner's ranch.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 12, 2009, 09:26:48 PM
ALL for licenses and the DNR. Don't always agree with every decision, they f'ed me on the Snapper  season this year, went from April-October to June-August, but they do serve a purpose. Without limits, you'd have 50 thousand Bubbas out there catching as much fish as they could and depleting the supply. ...and they would wind up wasting most of it. How about Deer without a limit? Most people that hunt deer, while they do eat the meat, are still out for trophies. 8 point isn't big enough? Well keep trying 'til you get that Boone and Crockett record. Go ahead, there's no limit. Now multiply that guy by about 500 thousand people.

We need to preserve our primitive food supply. If it comes down to it, and the shit hits the fan, I don't think anyone will be out there worrying about trophies anyway.

Re: the highlighted - Are you making a confession that would get this moved to the Short Bus, sir? :-)
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Duke Nukum on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM
It is hard to grasp the inanity of the primitives.
They actually believe that if you provided "basic" needs then everyone would happily work for better.

Okay...let me ask any lurkers to sign up and answer a question.

If a basic fulfillment of this was a daily supply of potato soup and bread served in a room with four walls,a bed and a toilet with enough clothes to wear for two days while two more were being washed would you be content that your needs were met and demand nothing more?


I think it is a lesson from watching too much Star Trek:TNG.  The only lesson I learned from Star Trek:TNG this axiom:  Socialism is applied boredom.  It is mathematically true.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: GOBUCKS on November 12, 2009, 09:45:10 PM
I'm all for trophies, but if you get a 12 point instead of a 16 point, I don't think you should be allowed to go out and kill as many deer as you can until you get it. Again, multiply that by about 500K bubbas. We have driven other species to damn near extinction before. Buffalo used to roam all over the Midwest. Now they're all sitting on their fat asses eating grass on Ted Turner's ranch.
Sport hunters have never endangered any species.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Rebel on November 12, 2009, 09:48:30 PM
Sport hunters have never endangered any species.

Not saying they do, but would you be willing to gamble on that if a limit didn't exist? I'm not. I'm from Mississippi.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: LC EFA on November 12, 2009, 10:35:31 PM
I'm all for trophies, but if you get a 12 point instead of a 16 point, I don't think you should be allowed to go out and kill as many deer as you can until you get it. Again, multiply that by about 500K bubbas. We have driven other species to damn near extinction before. Buffalo used to roam all over the Midwest. Now they're all sitting on their fat asses eating grass on Ted Turner's ranch.

I only hunt for vermin control and food. Mostly vermin control.

The thought occurred to me though that in the case that the shit really did hit the fan - I see no harm in gathering a nice trophy case full of little red books and discarded bongs.

"Got this one from a decrepit old hippie that was foraging through me compost heap"
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: AllosaursRus on November 13, 2009, 12:26:40 AM
The Founding Fathers seemed to take care to specify "the pursuit of happiness" rather than just "happiness", and even at that the DUmmies still can't comprehend.

EXACTLY! You have the right to persue! Nothing is going to be given to you. You have to number 1, want it, number 2, have the drive in order to obtain it! Something completely lost over on Skin's Island.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: vesta111 on November 13, 2009, 04:02:31 AM
Sport hunters have never endangered any species.

GOBUCKS---------where the heck is you head today, you have forgotten the millions of Buffalo that were almost wiped out by sport hunters left to lay in the thousands to rot in the sun.?

Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: BlueStateSaint on November 13, 2009, 04:34:14 AM
GOBUCKS---------where the heck is you head today, you have forgotten the millions of Buffalo that were almost wiped out by sport hunters left to lay in the thousands to rot in the sun.?



There were a fair number of commercial hunters among that lot.  Sport hunters nowadays, of which I am one, don't go around blasting everything that looks remotely like a "target." 
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: vesta111 on November 13, 2009, 05:38:55 AM
There were a fair number of commercial hunters among that lot.  Sport hunters nowadays, of which I am one, don't go around blasting everything that looks remotely like a "target." 

Come hunt up here, we need hunters that don't shoot our dairy cows mistaken for deer or moose.  I have seen whole herds of cows where every 4-5 have in day glow COW painted on both sides.

  BTW, as a kid I was never allowed to wear white mittens or hat during hunting season. Some hunters would see a flash of white and fire at what they thought was a dear tail .

I wonder what happend to the practice of tying the deer to the side of a truck or car to get it home, dressed and hung to bleed out.?

School was let out for the first couple of days of deer season, kids as young as 10 would go hunting with family. If no deer, then wild turkey were plentiful for the Holiday season.

Some people cheated and hid salt licks in the woods to keep the deer in that area, old timers followed the time ordered practice of Peeing on trees in the area to draw the deer to the salt in the urine.

Interesting practice, I found on line an explanation for this act.  In Finnland the Raindeer herders use urine to draw in and domesticate the deer.  it's the salt.  A whole Continent away the Eskimo stores urine to loosen their dog sleds frozen in the ice.

Boar hunting is very dangerous, a lot of darn good dogs have been taken out by those monsters.  We have wild boar way up in the woods but few people are willing to hunt them as they do in the South.   

Loosing a good hunting dog or two is not worth bagging those suckers.

I am against deer stands, if one want to tie themselves way up in a tree to shoot down on pray, so be it, but these stands have morphed into tree houses. They can accommodate 4-5 people, have coolers stocked with beer and sandwitches, folding chairs, all the comforts of home.  To me this is not hunting this is murder.






 
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Rebel on November 13, 2009, 07:42:31 AM
GOBUCKS---------where the heck is you head today, you have forgotten the millions of Buffalo that were almost wiped out by sport hunters left to lay in the thousands to rot in the sun.?

Those weren't sport hunters. They did it for the fur trade.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Carl on November 13, 2009, 07:43:36 AM
I think it is a lesson from watching too much Star Trek:TNG.  The only lesson I learned from Star Trek:TNG this axiom:  Socialism is applied boredom.  It is mathematically true.

One has to try to imitate the mind of a very selfish small child to even begin with the proposition.
Our minds at that point start to ask what is the minimum,who determines,how would it be administered and so on quickly realizing it is stupid and impossible.

The DUmmy never gets past "I want".
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: BlueStateSaint on November 13, 2009, 08:02:05 AM
One has to try to imitate the mind of a very selfish small child to even begin with the proposition.
Our minds at that point start to ask what is the minimum,who determines,how would it be administered and so on quickly realizing it is stupid and impossible.

The DUmmy never gets past "I want".

At least The Heiress, even though she isn't 25 months old yet, helps out around the house.  When either my wife or I are emptying the dishwasher, she'll come over and start pulling things out of the racks to hand to us.

Lurking DUmb****s, that means that you're worse than a two-year-old.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Wineslob on November 13, 2009, 09:32:12 AM
Quote
Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?

The answer, DUmmies, is quite simple....................no.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: NHSparky on November 13, 2009, 10:22:54 AM
To qualify that statement, yes, as long as you work for them, and no, "work" doesn't mean you stealing them from me in the form of usurious taxes.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: Chris_ on November 13, 2009, 10:31:30 AM
Life.

Liberty.

PURSUIT of happiness. 

Implied:  the right to keep what you earn.  (IRS notwithstanding)
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: GOBUCKS on November 13, 2009, 11:12:40 AM
There were a fair number of commercial hunters among that lot.  Sport hunters nowadays, of which I am one, don't go around blasting everything that looks remotely like a "target." 

As usual, vestanumbers makes an absolutely, totally, embarrassingly stupid comment. Not a single species has been threatened by sport hunting, even in the days before regulations. Some were severely reduced by market hunters - whose motivation was purely commercial. The bison had to go. Their survival depended on cross country migration across the great plains. Humans depended on fencing. The swarming herds of bison were as incompatible with civilization as herds of mastodons would have been. You cannot have America without its midwest breadbasket. So the choice is between bison herds and a handful of indian savages, or America.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: ReaganForRushmore on November 13, 2009, 11:58:23 AM
Here at VRWC Labs, we now have the technology to grant your wish, Ma'am.

(http://blog.foolsmountain.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/megamaid-spaceballs.jpg) :II:

SUCK! SUCK! SUCK!

I'd hit Princess Vespa
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: NHSparky on November 13, 2009, 12:20:51 PM
SUCK! SUCK! SUCK!

I'd hit Princess Vespa

No you wouldn't.  She's a flaming moonbat.
Title: Re: Do people have a right to the basic necessities of life?
Post by: jukin on November 13, 2009, 05:45:38 PM
"Right" = "Force others to provide."