The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on November 10, 2009, 03:35:01 PM
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 12:38 PM
Original message
Health care is a CIVIL right - and thats why its a mandate
Health care is unique is that it is a civil right AND its an obligation.
Everyone is entitled to health care as civil right. Its a right that has only recently been recognized here, but has been recognized for a very long time in other countries.
But its also an obligation that WE ALL have to everyone else. Hence the mandate.
Here's the real deal.
When you REFUSE to buy health insurance, you reduce the funding pool for health care, hence YOU ARE DENY SOMEONE ELSE their civil right. It's as simple as that.
For those of you who say that you will REFUSE to buy health insurance..well you are no better than the tax dodgers who whine about taxes. You are denying other people their civil right to be cared for. And that is wrong.
Its a RIGHT. AND an obligation.
Thank you Congress. Thank you Mr. President.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6970950
Hmmm owning a house is a civil right too. Maybe Obama and the gang can force us all to buy houses now too. As a plus that will solve the homeless problem.
yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I support taking the profit out of the system
The bill didn't do that and its certainly an area for improvement.
Nonethless. The only way we can have healthcare is if we ALL chip in.
Doctors won't work for free.
Mechanics don't work for free either so shouldn't everyone have to chip in so we can get our cars fixed too?
uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
120. "Doctors won't work for free." Indeed. however, insurance co's are making the millions, NOT the docs
Make the money go to the providers and I'm happy. This doesn't happen though.
Obama said the docs are making a ton of money. They rip out appendices and amputate legs when it isn't needed.
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Just like the Second Amendment MANDATES that you own a gun
Or, for that matter, like the First Amendment demands that you be imprisoned if you don't vote.
shhh Obama might like the later half of that. Only you get imprisoned if you vote GOP.
anigbrowl (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
98. Agreed. Taxes for care I am fine with, a mandate for buying insurance I am not.
Current proposals basically amount to a forced subsidy for private industry. I don't think this is a workable model.
What's the difference really? Either way you have money taken from you at gunpoint. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other as they say.
liberalhistorian (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Then there's a simple solution if that happens. We can
all simply refuse to comply with the ridiculous mandate.
Good luck with that one Lisa. The IRS will get theirs one way or another. And you voted for this hope and change so you have no right to complain.
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. If there was a strong public optin, yes, include the mandate...
..but this is justa windfall for the insurance companies...you will be forced to buy expensive insurance, no guarantee of coverage...it's gaming the system in the ins co's favor.
And you all made fun of conservatives when we told you what was going to happen.
yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. of course you have to purchase it.
Did people REALLY believe that Congress was going to be the healthcare fairy and give it everyone for free?
Where would they money come from? Print it?
The only way we can have healthcare, is if everyone chips in.
Its no different than our roads and fire departments.
I have a crazy idea everyone could chip in and pay their own way.
Ozymanithrax Donating Member (992 posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. No, I am merely asking from where in the Constitution do we derive that right.
It is not an enumerated right. Health Care is not mentioned in the Constitution.
We are able to enjoy and protect those rights granted us in some way from the constitution. Abortion, for instance, is based on a constitutional right to privacy emanating from the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment, also known as substantive due process.
From what part of the Constitution do we derive a right to Health Care. In order to defend that conclusion under law, we must be able to state the source of that right.
shhh you sound like a lousy freeper :lmao:
optimator (155 posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
63. I refuse to buy private insurance
and I disagree with your premise of any obligation.
I'll gladly pay more in taxes for pooling of resources for health CARE, not private insurance.
You can send me to prison, thats fine.
I won't ever accept tyranny of corporations.
You can only refuse till 2013 then you better buy coverage that is approved by the sec of health.
yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
103. food,heat and shelter are ALL civil rights
that are frequently violated.
You mean they are not given out for free.
I am enjoying watching the primitives wake up to how we all got screwed but by election day they will line up and pull the lever with the D every time.
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No it's not, and no I don't.
Watch me not chip in. :bird:
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No it's not, and no I don't.
Watch me not chip in. :bird:
The IRS will get it from you one way or another.
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The IRS will get it from you one way or another.
Oh, I'll pay the fine. There it might go to people who deserve it, like the military. But I'm not about to pay directly for Dummies to mooch the system.
Probably naive on my part, but it helps me sleep. :-)
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Lets see here....they're 300 million people in the US of A.....if everyone paid $3,000.00 a year for every man, woman or child ... then that would be $900 BILLION a year for healthcare. Seems like enough to me.....so we cut the DUmmies welfare check, foodstamps, section 8 housing, etc. until we shave $3,000.00 off the lazy asses entitlements for HIS/HER/IT'S part of the universal healthcare plan.
Just a $1,000.00 a year per person would be $300 BILLION.....and you're probably paying more than that per person per year now.
At least with my plan we could save some from entitlements.
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Oh, I'll pay the fine. There it might go to people who deserve it, like the military. But I'm not about to pay directly for Dummies to mooch the system.
Probably naive on my part, but it helps me sleep. :-)
This will will be temporary though. The insurance companies will be phased out one by one forcing us all on the public option.
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yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-09-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
103. food,heat and shelter are ALL civil rights
that are frequently violated.
My right to not have useless parasites want to take my money has just been violated by you
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The IRS will get it from you one way or another.
Very true. A concept the primitives just can't seem to grasp, even if they wanted to. This notion that gov't controlling the price of medical visits, drugs, etc... will bring down the costs is a lie. With everyone covered under one plan, the price you were paying the insurance companies will be the same as you'll have to pay the IRS, and likely it'll be more. The price will never drop, and over time in order to keep the cost the same they'll have to start rationing services. Pretty soon, they'll be raising prices while also cutting services; a double whammy. It's what happens in the other countries with universal healthcare, no reason to believe it would be any different here.
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Not one single person is questioning why the rich aren't carrying all the load? Not one? Not one of them mentioning how (_!_) Bama promised he wouldn't raise your taxes unless you were making over $250k yet .... here he is with a NEW tax for all??
:lmao:
Hope you DUmmies find better jobs!
KC
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Not one single person is questioning why the rich aren't carrying all the load? Not one? Not one of them mentioning how (_!_) Bama promised he wouldn't raise your taxes unless you were making over $250k yet .... here he is with a NEW tax for all??
:lmao:
Hope you DUmmies find better jobs!
KC
It's not a tax, Obama rejects that notion, so it's a happy fun payment. :-)
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Lets see here....they're 300 million people in the US of A.....if everyone paid $3,000.00 a year for every man, woman or child ... then that would be $900 BILLION a year for healthcare. Seems like enough to me.....so we cut the DUmmies welfare check, foodstamps, section 8 housing, etc. until we shave $3,000.00 off the lazy asses entitlements for HIS/HER/IT'S part of the universal healthcare plan.
Just a $1,000.00 a year per person would be $300 BILLION.....and you're probably paying more than that per person per year now.
At least with my plan we could save some from entitlements.
That's what I was suggestion. Hell, even if you didn't touch those other entitlement programs and just did away with any form of tax deductions or incentives for those who have to utilize the public plan--voila--you have the money to fund that individuals healthcare. I'll believe dummies and others like them really want healthcare when they are willing to pony up something of value to get it. Negotiations are not 'give me or else'--the are usually about compromise between the two parties. I don't see people who WANT healthcare via the government willing to pony up anything of value in order to get that. When I see that happening, then I'll believe they really want this and not this everyone chips in 3 grand bullshit--if it means that much to them, let them give up their interest deduction, child tax credits, etc to put towards any plan they utilize. To me, that's a fair enough trade off and allows the rest of us to keep those and BUY OUR OWN PRIVATE INSURANCE without paying more then we already to to support moochers, freeloaders, and people who just don't want to get their act together.
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It's not a tax, Obama rejects that notion, so it's a happy fun payment. :-)
It's a special fee for upkeep of your pony until they see fit to issue it to you.
:-)
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I'm too lazy to look up when it became mandatory (in most or all states) to buy auto insurance. I have found a very interesting graph showing the history of auto insurance rates and ..... I'm gonna just throw a guess out after looking at the graph and say ..... auto insurance became mandatory pretty much nationwide around the mid '80's.
Here is the link if someone would like to do more research;
Auto Insurance Rate History (http://www.google.com/search?q=auto+insurance+rate+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=jf35SvupGcGxngeRz9WGDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=12&ved=0CCwQ5wIwCw)
What is interesting is how much the insurance rates jumped from the mid 80's on. I'll bet that is when it started to become mandatory and it makes me wonder about this new mandatory insurance the DUmmies are so hip on.
Any guess about whether this is going to bring down the insurance costs or make them go up??
:lmao:
They got what they voted for!
KC
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It's not a tax, Obama rejects that notion, so it's a happy fun payment. :-)
Oh I know he argued with Stpehna9oplis (or however you spell that) about whether it was a tax or not but .... it seems he is warming to the idea.
Check this out.
(_!_) Bama's own words;
“What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.â€
Rather interesting article.... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/11/interview-with-the-president-jail-time-for-those-without-health-care-insurance.html)
KC
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Still do not understand how a right can be rationed by the government.
Perhaps a major head trauma will assist me in understanding this.
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I'm too lazy to look up when it became mandatory (in most or all states) to buy auto insurance. I have found a very interesting graph showing the history of auto insurance rates and ..... I'm gonna just throw a guess out after looking at the graph and say ..... auto insurance became mandatory pretty much nationwide around the mid '80's.
Here is the link if someone would like to do more research;
Auto Insurance Rate History (http://www.google.com/search?q=auto+insurance+rate+history&hl=en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=jf35SvupGcGxngeRz9WGDQ&sa=X&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=12&ved=0CCwQ5wIwCw)
What is interesting is how much the insurance rates jumped from the mid 80's on. I'll bet that is when it started to become mandatory and it makes me wonder about this new mandatory insurance the DUmmies are so hip on.
Any guess about whether this is going to bring down the insurance costs or make them go up??
:lmao:
They got what they voted for!
KC
Not to mention the "minor" fact that, despite the mandate, everyone carries "Uninsured Motorist" coverage, also. :whatever:
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Quote
yodoobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-09-09 12:38 PM
Original message
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For those of you who say that you will REFUSE to buy health insurance..well you are no better than the tax dodgers who whine about taxes. You are denying other people their civil right to be cared for. And that is wrong.
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At least the people who complain about excessive taxation while trying to get out of paying are more honest than shitstains like you who demand more taxation while still trying to get out of paying any.
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What is interesting is how much the insurance rates jumped from the mid 80's on. I'll bet that is when it started to become mandatory and it makes me wonder about this new mandatory insurance the DUmmies are so hip on.
KC
Wasn't it during the 80's that more cars started coming equipped with more standard features, features that used to be optional?
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Still do not understand how a right can be rationed by the government.
Perhaps a major head trauma will assist me in understanding this.
Uh........you're looking in the wrong place, since they pulled this outa their ass! I think you're gonna need "butt" trama!
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Still do not understand how a right can be rationed by the government.
Perhaps a major head trauma will assist me in understanding this.
It's simple really: DUmmies think the government is the source of rights in the first place.
I just want to know how someone can claim they have a right to what someone else produces.