The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on November 08, 2009, 04:59:16 PM
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov-08-09 05:51 PM
Original message
Will I go to jail if I don't buy health insurance? No. Updated at 5:51 PM
Edited on Sun Nov-08-09 05:52 PM by kpete
Sunday, November 08, 2009
Will I go to jail if I don't buy health insurance? No.
The newest meme of opposition to the health insurance plan is that if you don't obey the individual mandate to purchase health insurance, you will go to jail.
http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov/News/Document...
This is false.
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If you don't want to pay your taxes, the government will punish you, not because you object to buying health insurance, but because the government doesn't like it whenever you don't pay your taxes. It also doesn't like it when people don't pay their taxes because they object to the government's defense spending.
You might object: the individual mandate tax is different than general revenues going to defense spending. This is a tax directed at people if they don't do something. That is true, but in this case the tax is correlated to the costs that you impose on others by failing to join the risk pool for health insurance.
If lots of people (and especially young and mostly healthy people) don't buy health insurance, the cost of insurance goes up for everyone, and it is passed on to others in the form of higher premiums. In addition, people who don't buy health insurance tend to wait until their health problems are severe and then use emergency services; they may contract communicable diseases (which they may pass on to others) or they may become disabled. All of these costs get passed along to others--in the form of higher premiums and higher costs for hospitals and insurers--or they have to be absorbed by federal and state governments through programs for the poor or the disabled.
So if you don't buy health insurance, you are increasing costs for other people. The federal government is taxing you to recoup some of those costs. An analogy would be taxes on alcohol or tobacco, although these taxes are usually worked into the retail price of the goods so that people don't even have the opportunity to refuse to pay them. Another example would be taxes on an enterprise that is creating additional costs to the environment through pollution; the government taxes you if you don't purchase and install anti-pollution equipment. If people don't purchase the pollution-control equipment and won't pay the tax, the government will fine them too.
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more:
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2009/11/will-i-go-to-jail-if...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6964384
Now wait just a second Lord O said that he rejects the notion that this will be a tax increase.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/09/18/national/w010512D74.DTL
So what we have here is a liberal admitting that Obama lied.
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So if you don't buy health insurance, you are increasing costs for other people. The federal government is taxing you to recoup some of those costs
These idiots always want to talk about fair. Well, I'd like one of those fools to come over here and tell me how this is 'fair'? Why is the healthy person penalized for being healthy? Why shouldn't the increased cost stay right where it belongs: with the person with the health condition? This is nothing more then taxing someone for winning the genetic lottery or taking care of themselves. Essentially, there is no incentive for one to maintain a healthy lifestyle imo except for reason of vanity. And said healthy person is supposed to feel bad because it increases the cost for the people who are actually sick? The healthy people should feel guilty? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:OFFS! How about this: I have a brother who is type 1 diabetic and a son who is autistic. How about you take the over burdened taxpayer like myself off the hook a bit more so I can care for the above adequately so there is no increases burden on anyone other then those who choose to take care of their own? The insertion of the 'healthy' and the penalizing of such makes it even more difficult for the healthy to take care of their own aged, ill, and helpless.
I remember not getting health insurance through work when I was about 19/20 because I couldn't afford the meager premiums(meager in retrospect but a lot to a healthy kid making 5 bucks an hour who didn't have a car). A young person, for example, should be able to take advantage of youthful good health and spend that money in ways more productive to themselves like laying a foundation for their life so they can care for themselves and their own as they get older and their health actually does fail. This is nothing more then a way to tax the young and/or the healthy and make it even more difficult for them to realize any sort of dream over their lifetime. I hread it on the radio worded perfectly: if this healthcare passes all the way through, it is the death of the American dream because of its repercussions. I can't see how the buffoon college aged kids who voted for this don't feel even a little bit stupid considering they are the ones who will be footing the bill of this monolith(or else) when most of them probably won't use the doctor for little more then the flu except for pregnancy(already covered if one is disadvantaged anyway) under age 30.
I'm inclined to say that bunch have reaped what they have sewn if not for the fact that my gen will be the one screwed royally first and the fact that I weap for the fact that my children will be burden with this pos for the rest of their lives.
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Yea, let's object to Defense Spending. After all, all that freedom we have is free, just tell other countries to play nice with you.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov-08-09 05:51 PM
Original message
Will I go to jail if I don't buy health insurance? No.
No they'll send you to the slam for not paying the hefty fine for not buying the mandatory healthcare.
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Not a bouncy but my very liberal best friend was citing Reagan today from an email he got this week with some of the Presidents quotes regarding expansive government.
He isn`t a DUmmy and can think...O has made him think a lot.
Btw lurkers who believed O when he said that if you made less then 250,000 you wouldn`t see any new taxes.
What say you now?
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No they'll send you to the slam for not paying the hefty fine for not buying the mandatory healthcare.
I just thought of something will military personal be exempt from this? Or does lord O expect you all to pay into this scheme too?
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov-08-09 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama himself said that this is not a tax. Ergo, any jail time is for failure to buy insurance.
I will find the youtube clip if necessary, but he said it.
Ok if Obama said it isn't a tax it must not be one. :mental:
Maybe it's a happy fun payment then.
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I just thought of something will military personal be exempt from this? Or does lord O expect you all to pay into this scheme too?
I would think that military would be considered as having insurance. But, on second thought, this is the DemonRats and Lord Zero we're talking about , so maybe they plan on charging the military for their insurance, or counting it as part of their pay and give them a pay cut.
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Ok if Obama said it isn't a tax it must not be one. :mental:
Maybe it's a happy fun payment then.
Well actually, this is good they pointed it out too which means tehy can't term it so it sounds as if he is doing no wrong. First they want to say that it is a tax so essentially jail time is for not paying taxes, but he said it was not a tax so the jail time is specifically a penalty for failing to buy something.
Additionally, if this qualified as a tax, it can not be seen in the same light as tax money that goes for defense spending. Defense spending promotes the protection and well-being of the nation as a WHOLE. In the case of this farce of a health insurance bill, ONE individual will be penalized for 'making' another individual pay higher premiums by their lack of contribution to a 'qualified plan'. The individual will be penalized for doing nothing and on top of that doing nothing criminal by any extent. A person in good health is considered a criminal for choosing not to have healthcare even though they may not benefit in any way from contributing to a plan like this. Whether the idiots that are dummies care to admit it or not, everyone, including them, benefits from a strong military. The individual penalized by giving so many years of their life and potentially their life in its entirety does so VOLUNTARILY when they join the military. Nobody is currently forced to participate for the benefit of another, but that will be the case under this abomination.
They can't win this argument; either way people are getting screwed, but they keep trying to twist their minds into pretzels to make their boy look golden.
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I would think that military would be considered as having insurance. But, on second thought, this is the DemonRats and Lord Zero we're talking about , so maybe they plan on charging the military for their insurance, or counting it as part of their pay and give them a pay cut.
There is no telling what lord O has in mind. :mental:
We are so screwed aren't we?
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Well actually, this is good they pointed it out too which means tehy can't term it so it sounds as if he is doing no wrong. First they want to say that it is a tax so essentially jail time is for not paying taxes, but he said it was not a tax so the jail time is specifically a penalty for failing to buy something.
Additionally, if this qualified as a tax, it can not be seen in the same light as tax money that goes for defense spending. Defense spending promotes the protection and well-being of the nation as a WHOLE. In the case of this farce of a health insurance bill, ONE individual will be penalized for 'making' another individual pay higher premiums by their lack of contribution to a 'qualified plan'. The individual will be penalized for doing nothing and on top of that doing nothing criminal by any extent. A person in good health is considered a criminal for choosing not to have healthcare even though they may not benefit in any way from contributing to a plan like this. Whether the idiots that are dummies care to admit it or not, everyone, including them, benefits from a strong military. The individual penalized by giving so many years of their life and potentially their life in its entirety does so VOLUNTARILY when they join the military. Nobody is currently forced to participate for the benefit of another, but that will be the case under this abomination.
They can't win this argument; either way people are getting screwed, but they keep trying to twist their minds into pretzels to make their boy look golden.
All that twisting gives me a headache. :-)
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All that twisting gives me a headache. :-)
Of course not, because there is not truth or logic in their arguments. They merely don't want their guy to look bad and like a liar so they are twisting themselves into their normal pretzels of idiocy to try and bail him out. They can't do it. They should just be honest and say the are screwing some people for the 'possible' benefit of a few other people.
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Of course not, because there is not truth or logic in their arguments. They merely don't want their guy to look bad and like a liar so they are twisting themselves into their normal pretzels of idiocy to try and bail him out. They can't do it. They should just be honest and say the are screwing some people for the 'possible' benefit of a few other people.
Just all depends on what the definition of "is" is. :-)
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I just thought of something will military personal be exempt from this? Or does lord O expect you all to pay into this scheme too?
I don't know. I thought Tri-Care was bad...I shudder to think what we'll have to endure if we're forced to have to use this crap they just passed.
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I don't know. I thought Tri-Care was bad...I shudder to think what we'll have to endure if we're forced to have to use this crap they just passed.
I shudder to think too.
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Technically, the DU poster is 100% correct. And it's the same argument that some of us have been having with "deportliberals." It's also the same argument that will be used by the gov't and how they will get this through SCOTUS.
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I don't know if it was this thread, or another "jail meme" thread, but the OP was taking quite a bit of crap from the rest of the DUmmies for suggesting that taxes were in fact being raised on people making less than 250k. :evillaugh:
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I don't know if it was this thread, or another "jail meme" thread, but the OP was taking quite a bit of crap from the rest of the DUmmies for suggesting that taxes were in fact being raised on people making less than 250k. :evillaugh:
I make well under that number and I'm going to see upwards of $8-10K in new taxes if all of this goes through, including the tax on "cadillac" plans. :banghead:
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I just thought of something will military personal be exempt from this? Or does lord O expect you all to pay into this scheme too?
I hadn't thought of that either... Scary thought
Or maybe they plan to tax us on what we receive from Tricare
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My local paper's headline is saying: Health Care Bill arrives in the Senate DOA. What does everyone else's say?
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kpete
If lots of people (and especially young and mostly healthy people) don't buy health insurance, the cost of insurance goes up for everyone, and it is passed on to others in the form of higher premiums.
And when people don't buy insurance, it's called being able to act upon their "freedom" to not to buy any. I'm fully aware that, as a liberal, the word "freedom" is foreign to you, so look it up.
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And when people don't buy insurance, it's called being able to act upon their "freedom" to not to buy any. I'm fully aware that, as a liberal, the word "freedom" is foreign to you, so look it up.
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Soon we will all be required to purchase new cars. They won't allow you to own one older than a couple of years. It would be for the good of the economy. Of course, people that can't afford a new one will be subsidized by higher prices on the ones rich people buy.
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Soon we will all be required to purchase new cars. They won't allow you to own one older than a couple of years. It would be for the good of the economy. Of course, people that can't afford a new one will be subsidized by higher prices on the ones rich people buy.
Sadly enough, it wouldn't surprise me if that were to happen.
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Honestly, the worst punishment for these idiots would be to get exactly what they want. For probably the majority of conservatives, the entire thing rankles as a costly infringement on freedom and a basic fiscal responsibility issue, but would not be economically devastating since it basically would replace costs paid in the free market now, in exchange for less-valuable but more-costly Government-run care in lieu of their current coverage -- annoying and inconvenient, but not likely to drive that many to the wall. For the Dems, on the other hand, the bill for this stuff will come due in a big way, imperiling the economic health of not only all of the DUers now scamming along on MedicAid, but also Dominos, Frito-Lay, Little Caesar's, and Papa John's.
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I would think that military would be considered as having insurance. But, on second thought, this is the DemonRats and Lord Zero we're talking about , so maybe they plan on charging the military for their insurance, or counting it as part of their pay and give them a pay cut.
That was my question as well. That and my wife and kids are coered under TRICARE- is that going to be thought of as insurance? What about dental? Vision?
Yeah, lots of questions.
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That was my question as well. That and my wife and kids are coered under TRICARE- is that going to be thought of as insurance? What about dental? Vision?
Yeah, lots of questions.
Just remember what usually happens when DimRats try and "help" people. The law of unintended consequences will :censored: everyone over.
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I just thought of something will military personal be exempt from this? Or does lord O expect you all to pay into this scheme too?
You are assuming that our muslim president plans to have a military.
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You are assuming that our muslim president plans to have a military.
Just think of all that hardware that can be folded into a NKVD National Security Force...
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Not sure if it made it into the final draft, I believe the info prior to Saturday was that Fed employee group health plans were not going to be wiped out by it, and I'm sure there is no intent at all to screw with military medical care as we know it either.