The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: thundley4 on October 28, 2009, 12:47:54 PM
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Windy (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 09:32 AM
Original message
To all of you DU'ers who think we should have gone for single payer ... andit had a chance
On what FACTS do you base your assessment?
The dems don't have the votes for its passage, period! A little reality!
We have Conrad, Lincoln, Landrieu, Bayh, Pryor, Nelson who have made no bones about the fact that they don't feel confortable with a public option. Then we throw Lieberman in the mix and add the fact the Byrd is ill.
If we get it through with opt out, we'll be lucky. Single Payer had NO CHANCE AT ALL and would have been a wasted exercise just like Clinton's past effort failed.
Who's fault is it that we have to deal with Blue Dogs? Try the constituents of their states that elect them!
Its too damn easy to blame Obama! Instead of crying about the demise of single payer, get on the phone and write letters to the hold outs to apply pressure on them to allow debate on the bill at minimum and ask them not to join a republican filibuster.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6873138
Contrary to the thread title, this DUmmie comes close to getting it. However if it weren't for the bluedog dems, those seats had a good chance of going to the GOP.
tekisui (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. If the Democratic leaders had any backbone
or weren't as compromised as the blue mutts, they would have forced the corporate shill mutts to play liberal, or lose their jobs.
The leadership could own the mutts, but are too weak. I would have rather seen hard-nosed action and results, even risking losing the majority, than the weakness I have seen now.
They are still risking the majority, only with little liberal action.
Losing the majority is what will happen soon, then we'll see some real whining.
Windy (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. You are divorced from reality.
Check the voting records of those same senators during the Bush administration... they were in lock step.
And to the poster who said "dem leadership can remove the blues from their jobs", really? I believe in a representative democracy, the only way to remove a senator from his position is to vote him/her out!
Yes, you can take away their committee chairs, etc... but you cannot take away their senate seat because you don't like the way that they vote! 5 or 6 corporate shill senators hold all the power unfortunately and they know it.
HughMoran (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. Of course it didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of passing - right from the git-go
Only someone devoid from reality would make such a purist argument. You get over yourself and your 'reality'. It's closer to insanity if you ask me...
Your are surrounded by insanity on the Island, therefore many believe it had a chance.
redqueen (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
38. "It is impossible to say, ... if it would have had a chance, had it been given a fair hearing ..."
Edited on Wed Oct-28-09 11:36 AM by redqueen
Do you think the M$M/Insurance Industry tag team would have gone easier on the single payer stuff, and allowed a 'fair hearing'?
Do you think the Blue Dogs would be more amenable to single payer, given that they can't even seem to get behind single payer? This isn't about ideas, this is about their wallets. It has nothing to do with fair hearings and support. Nothing.
Wow, just think how big the Tea Parties would have been if Single Payer was on the table from the get go.
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"That dog won't hunt.".......... :rotf:
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The way Reid is handling has to be purely for the SEIU base in Nevada, because it sure as Hell isn't doing him, his Senate Democrat comrades (And I use the term advisedly), or the Obamites any favors at all in the credibility department, as far as the national electorate is concerned. He appears to be bending over backwards to make the Democrat leadership appear to be willful two-timing back-biting liars who will say one thing and then try to switch the rules around to their own advantage at the drop of a hat, not that it is necessarily an inaccurate picture of them.
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Even if you took the eight Democratic Senators mentioned in the OP, the Dems would still would have 52 votes to pass Obamacare in the US Senate. Yes, I know it would take 60 to eliminate the threat of filibuster, but remember Charlie Rangel of the House Ways and Means committee passed (along party lines) the provision that the bill met the financial requirements for a simple majority vote for Harry Reid
to coordinate(the nuclear option).
The point is, the Dems have the power and the means to pass the bill, the question is do they have the nerve. I have a sneaky suspicion that the Dems are watching the elections in NJ and Virginia as a bellwether to their own reelection chances next year.
I'm just an ignorant Texan clinging to my guns and my religion, but if I were a betting man, I believe
health care will suddenly become passe' and the economy will all of the sudden become the rage for
reelection in 2010. Some where out there, Bill Clinton is smiling saying, "It's the economy, stupid!"
and don't think the knives are being sharpened for 2012 for the Anointed One to have, at least, a cursory primary challenge....if nothing more than to prepare for 2016.
The King is dead, Long live the King!
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DAT: at 3:00 in the morning, no less.
There are apparently DUmmies who believe congresscreeps can be fired by Pelosi and Reid; maybe even Obama? There are those who think Obama can fire Pelosi and Reid. Publik skool in action. For people so passionate about politics, how can they be so stupid about it? Lieberman and his "district" as another example.
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I get a kick out of how they always have to create a mysterious,all powerful entity that is identified by a all encompassing name.
In this case "corporations".
Lets them feel powerless and oppressed
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If the Dems lose in the upcoming elections next week,(?), it puts the Dem leadership in a quandary. Did they lose because of the insurance reform in general, or did they lose because there is no strong public option. I look for the pollsters to be asking that at the exit polls.
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If the Dems lose in the upcoming elections next week,(?), it puts the Dem leadership in a quandary. Did they lose because of the insurance reform in general, or did they lose because there is no strong public option. I look for the pollsters to be asking that at the exit polls.
Michael Steele, on Hannity's show a bit ago, said something to the effect that the Republicans should easily pick up the Governor's slot in Virginia, and he said that he feels that Chris Christie is going to knock off Jon Corzine. If that happens, expect HCR to be DOA. Two polls over the last two-three days show Doug Hoffman in first in the NY-23 race.
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tekisui (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-28-09 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. If the Democratic leaders had any backbone
or weren't as compromised as the blue mutts, they would have forced the corporate shill mutts to play liberal, or lose their jobs.
The leadership could own the mutts, but are too weak. I would have rather seen hard-nosed action and results, even risking losing the majority, than the weakness I have seen now.
They are still risking the majority, only with little liberal action.
You vill vote for us or off to gulag vith you !
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Michael Steele, on Hannity's show a bit ago, said something to the effect that the Republicans should easily pick up the Governor's slot in Virginia, and he said that he feels that Chris Christie is going to knock off Jon Corzine. If that happens, expect HCR to be DOA. Two polls over the last two-three days show Doug Hoffman in first in the NY-23 race.
I heard some of that, discussing the NY-23 race, and have to say that Steele just is not getting the picture.
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I heard some of that, discussing the NY-23 race, and have to say that Steele just is not getting the picture.
It's looking like putting Steele in charge was just a case of PCness, not a change in direction. :(
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Party Hacks.
Thats who is supporting Scuzzy.
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Michael Steele, on Hannity's show a bit ago, said something to the effect that the Republicans should easily pick up the Governor's slot in Virginia, and he said that he feels that Chris Christie is going to knock off Jon Corzine. If that happens, expect HCR to be DOA. Two polls over the last two-three days show Doug Hoffman in first in the NY-23 race.
This will sound like a bouncy but just got a call from the RNC reminding me that there are several state elections coming up that as a conservative I should be interested in.
I cut him off and said when the part endorsed a conservative in the 23 district I would be on board but until then I wasn`t terribly interested.
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It's absolutely mind boggling the Pubbies aren't backing the Conservative Hoffman in NY! (it's not Jersey, BTW) Even Newt put out his worthless ass backing toward a dem light, soley becayse of the "R" behind her name and the RNC "decided" she was the candidate! If she's a conservative repub, I'll kiss Newt's ass! WTF is wrong with these people? Dede Scozzafava is a stinkin' liberal for cryin' out loud!!!!! She agrees more with the DUmmies than any other Pubbie in existence! WTF is the RNC tryin' to prove? Big Tent my ass! We need to take back the meaning of Republican! One good thing is there will be a general elextion next year, and if by some chance he doesn't win this time, he sure as hell will win in the general!
What the hell is it going to take to wake these mother****ers up?????
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It's absolutely mind boggling the Pubbies aren't backing the Conservative Hoffman in NY! (it's not Jersey, BTW) Even Newt put out his worthless ass backing toward a dem light, soley becayse of the "R" behind her name and the RNC "decided" she was the candidate! If she's a conservative repub, I'll kiss Newt's ass! WTF is wrong with these people? Dede Scozzafava is a stinkin' liberal for cryin' out loud!!!!! She agrees more with the DUmmies than any other Pubbie in existence! WTF is the RNC tryin' to prove? Big Tent my ass! We need to take back the meaning of Republican! One good thing is there will be a general elextion next year, and if by some chance he doesn't win this time, he sure as hell will win in the general!
What the hell is it going to take to wake these mother****ers up?????
Unfortunately, the Steve Schmidt's and the John McCain's of the world think that the Republicans need to move to the left in order to win elections.
This is aimed at the possible lurking liberal Republicans--it is when the Republican Party abandons its' conservative principles that the moderates out there turn on the Republican Party, and put the lefty Democrats in power. Want to return to power, and have a spot at the table?
(Re)Turn to the Right.
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I believe you, Carl. I don't think it's a bouncy. Good for you, I did my version of that by written letter (snail mail), returning a beggin form with zero dollars and an FU letter.
The 23rd is a big-ass district, so it's hard to tell what's going on everywhere, but the Watertown contingent is very energized. I think a new poll comes out tomorrow?
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I believe you, Carl. I don't think it's a bouncy. Good for you, I did my version of that by written letter (snail mail), returning a beggin form with zero dollars and an FU letter.
The 23rd is a big-ass district, so it's hard to tell what's going on everywhere, but the Watertown contingent is very energized. I think a new poll comes out tomorrow?
Unless ACORN tries the same shit they did in Troy, Hoffman wins this one, IMO.
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A Daily Kos funded poll has Owens 33%, Hoffman 32% and Scuzzy at around 12% or some such.