The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: thundley4 on October 22, 2009, 10:50:56 AM
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Many top Republicans are growing worried that the party’s chances for reversing its electoral routs of 2006 and 2008 are being wounded by the flamboyant rhetoric and angry tone of conservative activists and media personalities, according to interviews with GOP officials and operatives.
Congressional leaders talk in private of being boxed in by commentators such as Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh — figures who are wildly popular with the conservative base but wildly controversial among other parts of the electorate, and who have proven records of making life miserable for senators and House members critical of their views or influence.
Some of the leading 2012 candidates are described by operatives as grappling with the same tension. The challenge is to tap into the richest source of energy in the party — the disgust of grass-roots conservative activists with President Barack Obama and their hunger for a full-throated attack on his agenda — without coming off to the broader public as cranky and extreme.
Mitt Romney has purposely kept a lower profile and stuck to speeches on specific policy issues, in part to avoid the early trade-off between placating party activists and appearing presidential. Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, one of the most active potential opponents for Obama in 2012, said that media portrayals of a narrow-minded party could make it harder to attract the middle-of-the-road voters needed to make the GOP a majority party again.
“The commentators are part of the coalition, not the whole coalition,†Pawlenty said in a phone interview. “The party needs to be about addition, not subtraction — but not at the expense of watering down its principles.â€
Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28589.html)
Watering down conservative principles is exactly what the GOP has been doing every since Ronald Reagan. The GOP should be worried about losing their base, since many would rather stay home than vote against their beliefs time after time. The DimRats can go against their principles, because they have very few that are hard and fast, besides they know they have the votes of a certain number of moonbats and minorities.
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The GOP has themselves to blame.
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Gee guys, had you maybe managed to keep the GOP identified with conservatism instead of running RINO idiots like Scozzafava, Snowe, Collins, et al, maybe ya'll wouldn't be having this problem.
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Gee guys, had you maybe managed to keep the GOP identified with conservatism instead of running RINO idiots like Scozzafava, Snowe, Collins, et al, maybe ya'll wouldn't be having this problem.
Don't forget McCain and Der Governator......
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Don't forget McCain and Der Governator......
Bush 43
Romney
It's amazing, the more middle-of-the-road the GOP attempts to become the more profound the disaffectation of the base and subsequent loss of election day support.
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I've some to the somewhat worrying realization that maybe, just maybe, Reagan was a conservative abberation in the Republican Party. And these "conservative ideals" we talk about were never actually embraced by the Republican top tier. What if RINOs aren't really RINOs?
:o
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Bush 43
Romney
Huckabee
Pawlenty
Crist
Graham
Steele
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By the time that the Obamessiah gets done with his term, the American public will be so tired of the massive swing to the Left that they will feel a need to swing waaay back to the Right in order to counterbalance the Big Zero, and to repair the massive damage he and his Oministration will have done to the American economy and its people. 'Hope and Change" will be replaced by "Security and Prosperity." RINOs need not apply.
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By the time that the Obamessiah gets done with his term, the American public will be so tired of the massive swing to the Left that they will feel a need to swing waaay back to the Right in order to counterbalance the Big Zero, and to repair the massive damage he and his Oministration will have done to the American economy and its people. 'Hope and Change" will be replaced by "Security and Prosperity." RINOs need not apply.
Let's pray that the swing back to the right is accompanied with the understanding that Big Government is BAAAAAD, no matter who is peddling it. It's been a hard fought lesson to get across, but I hope that it's finally sunk in.
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Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28589.html)
Watering down conservative principles is exactly what the GOP has been doing every since Ronald Reagan. The GOP should be worried about losing their base, since many would rather stay home than vote against their beliefs time after time. The DimRats can go against their principles, because they have very few that are hard and fast, besides they know they have the votes of a certain number of moonbats and minorities.
Hi,
I disagree with you about one thing, I think many in the GOP have no principles. Recently an article in the Tampa paper said Charlie Crist has changed his stance on offshore drilling so he would appear more conservative. WTF?? If one had principles, he would stick by them.....
How the hell is a voter supposed to make up their mind when a candidate changes to appear to be one way or another? How will they vote, with the damn wind sock telling them which way to go?
Geesh, the whole issues seems so simple to me, why the hell don't the republicans listen to their base????
regards,
5412
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Hi,
I disagree with you about one thing, I think many in the GOP have no principles. Recently an article in the Tampa paper said Charlie Crist has changed his stance on offshore drilling so he would appear more conservative. WTF?? If one had principles, he would stick by them.....
How the hell is a voter supposed to make up their mind when a candidate changes to appear to be one way or another? How will they vote, with the damn wind sock telling them which way to go?
Geesh, the whole issues seems so simple to me, why the hell don't the republicans listen to their base????
regards,
5412
I meant more so that conservative voters tend to follow their principles more than liberal voters do, not the politicians themselves. From what I've seen about Crist, plenty of people are upset that the RNC is supporting him instead of Rubio.
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I meant more so that conservative voters tend to follow their principles more than liberal voters do, not the politicians themselves. From what I've seen about Crist, plenty of people are upset that the RNC is supporting him instead of Rubio.
Hi,
I met Rubio and have sent him a ton of stuff. We communicate fairly regularly. From what I can observe he is a good guy and a conservative. I sent him the stuff about Crist and the letter I sent to the Tampa Tribune. As of now, Crist will not debate him and I think I know why. Rubio has cut Crist's lead from 30% to 15% and there is a ton of mone sitting on the sideline watching this happen. When they think Rubio has a decent chance his campaign coffers will start to fill up.
My fear is Charlie Crist is a phony conservative. I will never forgive him for embracing BO's bailout because he did not have the gonads to make the tough decisions and balance the state budget, instead he took the easy way out with federal money. If he had reversed himself about offshore drilling at the time, bidding rights and royalties from the oil companies would have balanced the state budget easily. As of now, I suspect Mr. Crist wants to be president.
Rubio was told not to run against Crist, rather wait until Nelson comes up in 2012 and he said no, he is not going to wait his turn. He feels he has a message and we need to hear it in Washington now. Not only that, even if he does not win the primary, he is likely setting himself up for 2012 but I do not think that is his goal...... In an honest debate he should eat Crist alive.
regards,
5412
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Hey GOP!!!
Turning away from real conservatism is why you keep losing elections.
Wake the hell up already.
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Hey GOP!!!
Turning away from real conservatism is why you keep losing elections.
Wake the hell up already.
Hi,
I agree. I think that the real problem is in Steele. He is a consensus builder and that is not what the party needs right now. I see no leadership from the party at all.
regards,
5412
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Hi,
I disagree with you about one thing, I think many in the GOP have no principles. Recently an article in the Tampa paper said Charlie Crist has changed his stance on offshore drilling so he would appear more conservative. WTF?? If one had principles, he would stick by them.....
How the hell is a voter supposed to make up their mind when a candidate changes to appear to be one way or another? How will they vote, with the damn wind sock telling them which way to go?
Geesh, the whole issues seems so simple to me, why the hell don't the republicans listen to their base????
regards,
5412
Howdy 5412,
As you well know, politicians have a tendancy to say whatever they think it will take to get elected. Far too many of them drift with the breeze on their publically stated principles.
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Hi,
I agree. I think that the real problem is in Steele. He is a consensus builder and that is not what the party needs right now. I see no leadership from the party at all.
regards,
5412
I concur. And the 2010 and 2012 elections ain't going to work out so well for them if they don't start showing some conservative leadership real soon.
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Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28589.html)
Watering down conservative principles is exactly what the GOP has been doing every since Ronald Reagan.
No. George W. Bush was a great American president and his administration was great with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, real American patriots.
When the dust clears, W. will be in the same ranks with other great presidents --Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt.
We got a mediocre candidate in McCain, with a Palin firing up the base. I think there is a tad bit too much habitual McCain bashing on this site.
I think people forget that he has a strong stomach for the war on terror. A stomach as strong as W.'s and his administration.
McCain's domestic policy is unacceptable with the exception for his support for tax cuts and his strong pro-life stance.
I think most people on here know I'm a Karl Rove/Rush Limbaugh conservative. I am much more focused on real RINO's than I am on attacking conservatives who are left on a couple of issues/ made mistakes.
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Teddy Roosevelt wasn't that great of a president.
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No. George W. Bush was a great American president and his administration was great with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, real American patriots.
When the dust clears, W. will be in the same ranks with other great presidents --Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt.
We got a mediocre candidate in McCain, with a Palin firing up the base. I think there is a tad bit too much habitual McCain bashing on this site.
I think people forget that he has a strong stomach for the war on terror. A stomach as strong as W.'s and his administration.
McCain's domestic policy is unacceptable with the exception for his support for tax cuts and his strong pro-life stance.
I think most people on here know I'm a Karl Rove/Rush Limbaugh conservative. I am much more focused on real RINO's than I am on attacking conservatives who are left on a couple of issues/ made mistakes.
W would have been a great president if he had used the veto pen a little more frequently (especially after 2007), hadn't tried to push for an amnesty (now the dems have cover, it was his idea), hadn't expanded entitlements (get your free drugs, it's ok, noone's paying for it), etc. As it is, he'll be remembered as slightly above average, unless the Dems get what they want now, in which case he'll be described in history books as the capitalist imperialist pig who brought about the revolution with his lack of caring for the proletariat.
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No. George W. Bush was a great American president and his administration was great with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, real American patriots.
When the dust clears, W. will be in the same ranks with other great presidents --Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt.
We got a mediocre candidate in McCain, with a Palin firing up the base. I think there is a tad bit too much habitual McCain bashing on this site.
I think people forget that he has a strong stomach for the war on terror. A stomach as strong as W.'s and his administration.
McCain's domestic policy is unacceptable with the exception for his support for tax cuts and his strong pro-life stance.
I think most people on here know I'm a Karl Rove/Rush Limbaugh conservative. I am much more focused on real RINO's than I am on attacking conservatives who are left on a couple of issues/ made mistakes.
Hi,
I agree W did not do that bad a job on the war but the last term his economic policies were anything but conservative. I think McCain did more to hurt Bush and the conservative agenda than most democrats by speaking out against him and trying to build consensus...... It came off to me that McCain was mad because he did not get nominated and he was going to be a maverick and pain in Bush's side no matter what, with the exception of the military.
regards,
5412
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Hi,
I agree. I think that the real problem is in Steele. He is a consensus builder and that is not what the party needs right now. I see no leadership from the party at all.
regards,
5412
You got that right. I really think the GOP was trying to show just how hip they were by putting a black man it that spot. Nothing against Steele, I am sure he is a good person, but he fails to lead. They really are the "stupid" party.
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Geesh, the whole issues seems so simple to me, why the hell don't the republicans listen to their base????
regards,
5412
Because they know they'll get the votes anyway...and they lean RINO because they'll scoop up some of those votes too. Face it, conservatives voted for McCain. They should have voted independently to make their voices heard. We should have predicted Oblahma was going to win it anyway. If the true conservatives had voted with some guts, we'd still have Obama in the office but our voices would have been heard at least. I was in too small a minority when I as a true conservative voted neither Obama nor McCain.
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Because they know they'll get the votes anyway...and they lean RINO because they'll scoop up some of those votes too. Face it, conservatives voted for McCain. They should have voted independently to make their voices heard. We should have predicted Oblahma was going to win it anyway. If the true conservatives had voted with some guts, we'd still have Obama in the office but our voices would have been heard at least. I was in too small a minority when I as a true conservative voted neither Obama nor McCain.
Hi,
We lost the election in the primaries. Insanity is definded as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. When was the only time in my almost 70 years that the Republicans held the presidency and the majority in congress??? Major hint, it was when Gingrich led the contract for America...
Duh! Sooner or later, hopefully sooner, the Republicans better wake up. I don't know why the recent elections did not jolt them into reality but it did not seem to.
regards,
5412
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Because they know they'll get the votes anyway...and they lean RINO because they'll scoop up some of those votes too. Face it, conservatives voted for McCain. They should have voted independently to make their voices heard. We should have predicted Oblahma was going to win it anyway. If the true conservatives had voted with some guts, we'd still have Obama in the office but our voices would have been heard at least. I was in too small a minority when I as a true conservative voted neither Obama nor McCain.
No, RINO's voted for Juan McAmnesty. CONSERVATIVES voted for Palin. And frankly, a lot of Republicans stayed home AGAIN.
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No, RINO's voted for Juan McAmnesty. CONSERVATIVES voted for Palin. And frankly, a lot of Republicans stayed home AGAIN.
Yup. While McLame's record was touted as being solidly conservative by the ACU (82%, IIRC), in actual practice his voting record has become much more liberal - especially in more recent years.
By any measurement, McLame is a RINO. And he deliberately set out to become one, because he learned that he needed the centrist vote to be a viable candidate.
He failed. Utterly. And he added insult to injury when he allowed his handlers to "handle" Palin the way they did.
The whole process illustrated McLame's tired-ass approach to campaigning. He ran out of gas and he ran out of ideas, allowing Lord Zero's machine to suck up the vacuum that McLame left.
Now we've got this abortion called a "president." Disgusting. WTF were they (the GOP) thinking?
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No. George W. Bush was a great American president and his administration was great with Karl Rove and Dick Cheney, real American patriots.
When the dust clears, W. will be in the same ranks with other great presidents --Reagan and Teddy Roosevelt.
We got a mediocre candidate in McCain, with a Palin firing up the base. I think there is a tad bit too much habitual McCain bashing on this site.
I think people forget that he has a strong stomach for the war on terror. A stomach as strong as W.'s and his administration.
McCain's domestic policy is unacceptable with the exception for his support for tax cuts and his strong pro-life stance.
I think most people on here know I'm a Karl Rove/Rush Limbaugh conservative. I am much more focused on real RINO's than I am on attacking conservatives who are left on a couple of issues/ made mistakes.
I'm with you (sort of) on your overall point, but my gripe with Bush isn't over some small side-issue or minor mistake. Bush's legacy will always be tarnished by TARP1 and the bailouts. Always. A truly great, conservative president does not say, "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system."
For all the good he did, he left us with the economic climate that set the stage for Obama's porkulus bullshit. That's exactly why standing up for fiscal conservatism was so crucial then, and why his error was so grave.
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Hi,
We lost the election in the primaries. Insanity is definded as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. When was the only time in my almost 70 years that the Republicans held the presidency and the majority in congress??? Major hint, it was when Gingrich led the contract for America...
Duh! Sooner or later, hopefully sooner, the Republicans better wake up. I don't know why the recent elections did not jolt them into reality but it did not seem to.
regards,
5412
You are correct about the primaries. And to this day here in the Granite State I have yet to find a Republican who will admit to voting for Mc Lame in the primary. My guess is that there was a lot of cross over voting in the Republican primaries but that is only a guess.
About Newt. That is another matter as it did not take too long into his reign for the wheels to fall off the wagon. I am beginning to wonder if Newt was only in the right place at the right time rather than being an enduring "great statesman", I think the 23rd New York race will leave many asking that same question. His response will be telling. (I see it a lot like taking the "no tax pledge" here in New Hampshire)
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I'm with you (sort of) on your overall point, but my gripe with Bush isn't over some small side-issue or minor mistake. Bush's legacy will always be tarnished by TARP1 and the bailouts. Always. A truly great, conservative president does not say, "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system."
For all the good he did, he left us with the economic climate that set the stage for Obama's porkulus bullshit. That's exactly why standing up for fiscal conservatism was so crucial then, and why his error was so grave.
BINGO
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Name another great conservative Republican president besides Reagan.
I'm not as old as some of the members here, and I was just a kid in 1976 and 1980, but, IIRC, Reagan was not exactly welcomed by the Republican leadership at first. He had to drag the party kicking and screaming toward conservative values. Am I wrong here?
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I'm with you (sort of) on your overall point, but my gripe with Bush isn't over some small side-issue or minor mistake. Bush's legacy will always be tarnished by TARP1 and the bailouts. Always. A truly great, conservative president does not say, "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system."
For all the good he did, he left us with the economic climate that set the stage for Obama's porkulus bullshit. That's exactly why standing up for fiscal conservatism was so crucial then, and why his error was so grave.
From my perspective, GWB didn't do shit during his last year in office of any political significance - he supported those in harm's way, to be sure, but he didn't fight the Pelosi/Reid connection in virtually any way. It was like he was ROAD.
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Name another great conservative Republican president besides Reagan.
I'm not as old as some of the members here, and I was just a kid in 1976 and 1980, but, IIRC, Reagan was not exactly welcomed by the Republican leadership at first. He had to drag the party kicking and screaming toward conservative values. Am I wrong here?
In the time that I can remember, I'd rank Nixon behind Reagan, and ahead of others. Okay, flame away.
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From my perspective, GWB didn't do shit during his last year in office of any political significance - he supported those in harm's way, to be sure, but he didn't fight the Pelosi/Reid connection in virtually any way. It was like he was ROAD.
I'm with you there. It seemed like he just sighed and accepted it.
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I'm not as old as some of the members here, and I was just a kid in 1976 and 1980, but, IIRC, Reagan was not exactly welcomed by the Republican leadership at first. He had to drag the party kicking and screaming toward conservative values. Am I wrong here?
You're right.
In 1976, when Reagan named U.S. Senator Richard Schweiker (R-Pennsylvania) as his candidate for the vice-presidency if he (Reagan) got the Republican nomination, it was to soothe, to calm, sigificant portions of the Republican establishment.
In case you didn't know, Schweiker at the time was the most liberal U.S. Senator, period, of both parties.
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No, RINO's voted for Juan McAmnesty. CONSERVATIVES voted for Palin.
It was a compromise. I refuse to compromise anymore. I would have rather stayed home (I did not). That would have sent a message as well.
[McCain] failed. Utterly. And he added insult to injury when he allowed his handlers to "handle" Palin the way they did.
Sorry, but I think you are belittling her by saying this.* Did she have no mind or will of her own? Did McCain think for her? Palin allowed herself to be handled badly, and everyone paid the price. Any respect I had for her values was compromised by her willingness to be led.
*tell me, do you believe the Beatles' split was Yoko's fault?
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It was a compromise. I refuse to compromise anymore. I would have rather stayed home (I did not). That would have sent a message as well.
Sorry, but I think you are belittling her by saying this.* Did she have no mind or will of her own? Did McCain think for her? Palin allowed herself to be handled badly, and everyone paid the price. Any respect I had for her values was compromised by her willingness to be led.
*tell me, do you believe the Beatles' split was Yoko's fault?
I think that Palin didn't realize the extent of the game and the backlash that was confronting her. I believe she was entirely willing to be led during a campaign of this nature - and I dare say that most reasonable people would do the exact same thing.
Sarah Palin very much has a mind of her own. But reasonable people are going to listen to counsel and guidance when in unfamiliar territory - as she certainly was. In fact, I have much more respect for her now than I did at the beginning of the campaign, most certainly because of her wisdom in listening to guidance AND in taking definitive action vis a vis resigning the Alaskan governership.
In a world of career politicians who stop at nothing to ensure that they're reelected (Arlen Specter anyone?) Sarah has the 'nads to tell the system to pound sand - that she'll do it her way.
I like that kind of stuff. A lot. :cheersmate:
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I think that Palin didn't realize the extent of the game and the backlash that was confronting her. I believe she was entirely willing to be led during a campaign of this nature - and I dare say that most reasonable people would do the exact same thing.
Sarah Palin very much has a mind of her own. But reasonable people are going to listen to counsel and guidance when in unfamiliar territory - as she certainly was. In fact, I have much more respect for her now than I did at the beginning of the campaign, most certainly because of her wisdom in listening to guidance AND in taking definitive action vis a vis resigning the Alaskan governership.
In a world of career politicians who stop at nothing to ensure that they're reelected (Arlen Specter anyone?) Sarah has the 'nads to tell the system to pound sand - that she'll do it her way.
I like that kind of stuff. A lot. :cheersmate:
When she resigned my respect for her went up.
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Speaking of conservatives and Republicans, I think the dem and rep parties should be renamed and a new party formed. Maybe I'm just imagining things, but many of the members of today's Republican Party seem to be more in line with the Dems from 15 or 20 years ago. With that in mind, I'd rename the Republican Party to the Democrat Party. As the current Democrat Party is full of fruits and nuts with the brain power of a vegetable I would rename the Dems the Garden Party. Then I would form a Conservative Party made up of real conservatives who have been left behind by the Reps.
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Name another great conservative Republican president besides Reagan.
I'm not as old as some of the members here, and I was just a kid in 1976 and 1980, but, IIRC, Reagan was not exactly welcomed by the Republican leadership at first. He had to drag the party kicking and screaming toward conservative values. Am I wrong here?
I am an old fart....
Reagan was the finest individual groomed for President.
Eisenhower was another excellent choice
Other than that, I'd say slim pickens for the Office.
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the script for 2010 and beyond.....
Political Ads
Run Reagan's speech in 1947 on socialized medicine, The tenets are still strong today and still germane.
Run the simple but effective ad from 1980 with Reagan saying are you better off now than you were four years ago?
Run Reagan's city on the hill speech.
The left will scream and witch about Reagan is so passe'.....
until you realize that it was his principles that are timeless......
Limited Government,
Strong National Defense.
Lower taxes, and two little things called
Freedom and
Liberty
But to truly win, you need people who will adhere and build upon these precepts
Rubio of Florida
Palin of Alaska
any one else is part of the 2 party cabal known as Replocrats and Demicians.