The Conservative Cave
Current Events => Politics => Topic started by: 5412 on October 16, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
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Hi,
Having read posts about dumping McCain and Olympia Snowe from the Republican party, I am not so sure we might be missing something. The consensus is they are liberal and do not represent our views.
While I agree with that, I am not so sure that we are not the ones the Republican party has thrown overboard. I felt abandoned for the last several election cycles. When they send their requests for donations by the droves, I send them all back and tell them they abandoned me and when they want to truly support conservative values rather than pay lip service to them, I might consider coming back.
regards,
5412
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We want to dump them because the apparatus for a major, viable political party rests in the GOP.
The reason the GOP is not prospering is because it bought into the "bipartisanship" bullshit and feels the need for a "big tent" because that is what all the talking heads on TV say so that is what the pols fear.
If we sit out--or run to a 3rd party--we give the reins to the commiecrats by default; witness: 2006 and 2008
Sit out: liberals vote unchallenged.
Form a 3rd party: nobody trusts them enough to contribute serious amounts of campaign cash because they are unproven (and probably attracting the loonies who can't fit in the mainstream of rational discourse.
The better solution is to redefine what the GOP stands for minus big-tentism and then tell our individual representatives to represent (or GTFO). Snowe and McCain are in the crosshairs because they would make good examples if their heads were put on (political) pikes to serve as a warning to others who dare to transgress.
I for one refuse to cut off my face to spite my nose.
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Well, although I've never quite gotten a handle on why Arizona keeps reelecting McCain, the simple explanation is that many of our RINOS come from state electorates that are distinctly left-leaning, vis-a-vis Maine & Pennsylvania. And we (as well as the party leadership) have no control over these state voters, therefore these people keep getting reelected.
The party leadership DOES have the ability to control the process , to an extent, that selects presidential candidates, however, and in my opinion, should be working hard right now to prevent events like the McCain candidacy from happening again. Actions like "closing" primaries to prevent cross-party voting, and changing the timing of the state primaries to enhance the momentum of more conservative candidates,,,,,,which can be accomplished by moving up primaries in the more conservative states in the midwest and south, and taking the MSM emphasis off of primaries in New England and the eastern seaboard.
The party leadership DOEs have the ability to groom and establish primary challengers to the RINOS, and in some cases, even in a left-leaning state, if a charismatic candidate is offered, with the right financial support, a few of them can be picked off........
It is a long-term strategy, requiring continuity of leadership, which I don't see in the GOP today......the present party chairman is a "politically correct" offering that has shown little leadership, and a distinct propensity to stick his proverbial foot in his mouth, in my opinion, and there is, as yet no stars emerging that I can see that will provide the long-term commitment that is needed.
The reemergence of a conservative GOP is going to be a "process" rather than an "event", and I just do not see the quality of leadership in the party to accomplish this anytime soon.......
doc
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As I stated in another thread, we need to vote out EVERYONE of the legislators that do not represent their constituents, uphold the Constitution, and take care of business as they are supposed to do, regardless of party affiliation. when some 80% of the people do NOT want 0bama- care and the legislators are intent on implementing it anyways, there's a major problem.
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We want to dump them because the apparatus for a major, viable political party rests in the GOP.
The reason the GOP is not prospering is because it bought into the "bipartisanship" bullshit and feels the need for a "big tent" because that is what all the talking heads on TV say so that is what the pols fear.
If we sit out--or run to a 3rd party--we give the reins to the commiecrats by default; witness: 2006 and 2008
Sit out: liberals vote unchallenged.
Form a 3rd party: nobody trusts them enough to contribute serious amounts of campaign cash because they are unproven (and probably attracting the loonies who can't fit in the mainstream of rational discourse.
The better solution is to redefine what the GOP stands for minus big-tentism and then tell our individual representatives to represent (or GTFO). Snowe and McCain are in the crosshairs because they would make good examples if their heads were put on (political) pikes to serve as a warning to others who dare to transgress.
I for one refuse to cut off my face to spite my nose.
I totally agree with your assessment.
However McCain and Snowe are two different worlds. McCain is conservative 80% of the time, while Snowe is conservative 40% of the time.
When McCain goes "maverick" on issues such as McCain/Feingold campaign finance reform, he hurt his own party more then anyone else could have had.
I am however, proud of the Republican party in general to refuse to join the ranks of Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins. Olympia Snowe went to the dems on healthcare because they cut her a deal for committee power. Which in essence gives her more power in the Republican party.
I would rather have 2 conservative democrats than Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins from Maine. They are one of the worst RINOS around.
I am also proud that passionate Republicans like Joe Wilson had the passion and guts to call out the President when Obama was accusing his opposition of lying and then lying habitually himself.
I am also proud that a vast majority of Republicans have aggressively opposed the President's agenda, everything from stimilus and healthcare.
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There was a very articulate woman who was on Neil Cavuto a few minutes ago was talking about the GOP.
She said that there are too many Republicans who are Dem-lites, but at the same time people should not dismiss the GOP because there are still genuinely conservative members.
Neil then talked about how people were urging Reagan to run on a third party during the unpopular presidency of Ford. But Reagan became a good "party soldier" and helped shape the Republican party.
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Well, although I've never quite gotten a handle on why Arizona keeps reelecting McCain, the simple explanation is that many of our RINOS come from state electorates that are distinctly left-leaning, vis-a-vis Maine & Pennsylvania. And we (as well as the party leadership) have no control over these state voters, therefore these people keep getting reelected.
doc
You make a very good point about the people coming into the state.
Many of the southern tier states are having Baby Boomers move in from the northern states.
There are a lot of transplants in Asheville NC from the NE who didn't want the FL weather or the population mix. I was wondering how Asheville had become so liberal and that would explain it.
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We want to dump them because the apparatus for a major, viable political party rests in the GOP.
The reason the GOP is not prospering is because it bought into the "bipartisanship" bullshit and feels the need for a "big tent" because that is what all the talking heads on TV say so that is what the pols fear.
If we sit out--or run to a 3rd party--we give the reins to the commiecrats by default; witness: 2006 and 2008
Sit out: liberals vote unchallenged.
Form a 3rd party: nobody trusts them enough to contribute serious amounts of campaign cash because they are unproven (and probably attracting the loonies who can't fit in the mainstream of rational discourse.
The better solution is to redefine what the GOP stands for minus big-tentism and then tell our individual representatives to represent (or GTFO). Snowe and McCain are in the crosshairs because they would make good examples if their heads were put on (political) pikes to serve as a warning to others who dare to transgress.
I for one refuse to cut off my face to spite my nose.
Hi,
What you say makes sense with one area of concern to me. I think that if the republican party really articulated true conservative values it would get larger, not smaller.
Certainly having a party in place makes things easier, Jesse Ventura found that out in MN when both parties tried to stonewall him.
If the party adopted a true conservative platform and articulated those views, wouldn't it be much like the Gingrich Contract with America and bring overwhelming success? I think so, particularly now that the public understands just how communist the true left wingers really are.
As far as McCain, wouldn't he join in? Where else would he have to go? As far as Snowe, better if she split because republicans are under the illusion they can count on her to use common sense. Hell she could just be a lib spy in the committee hearings for all we know.
BO said he is going to remake America. Only way I guess that can be stopped is to remake the republican party......and Mr. Steele does not seem to get that at all.
regards,
5412
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Totally agree with your assessment, 5412
But I think Michael Steele is doing a good job. He just inherited the party right after John McCain's loss, give the guy some time.
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What you say makes sense with one area of concern to me. I think that if the republican party really articulated true conservative values it would get larger, not smaller.
I absolutely agree, I was merely addressing the immediate nature of your OP: whether or not the GOP deserves our continued support or if we should take our ball and go home.
I've no doubt if the GOP was genuinely pro-defense, pro-gun, anti-ELECTIVE abortion, states rights on social issues, low tax, low regulation, we would see a ground-swell of support that would make dems want to be us.
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You make a very good point about the people coming into the state.
Many of the southern tier states are having Baby Boomers move in from the northern states.
There are a lot of transplants in Asheville NC from the NE who didn't want the FL weather or the population mix. I was wondering how Asheville had become so liberal and that would explain it.
All the App state students, former students incoming students and alumni.....................ie a bunch of hippies
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I absolutely agree, I was merely addressing the immediate nature of your OP: whether or not the GOP deserves our continued support or if we should take our ball and go home.
I've no doubt if the GOP was genuinely pro-defense, pro-gun, anti-ELECTIVE abortion, states rights on social issues, low tax, low regulation, we would see a ground-swell of support that would make dems want to be us.
Hey bunny,
I really appreciated your post, it caused me to do just as the thread suggested. I really did re-think things because I felt you were on target. I do not feel that Steele is doing a good job however. I called his office almost immediately after he took over and gave him a big thumbs up after he appeared on Fox. I may have posted the multi page letter I sent him. Here is my problem with him.
Much like BO, maybe Emmanuel, has taken charge, the impression I get is Steele is still trying to make people happy, compromise, etc. That is bullshit if it is true! He needs to bring them all into a room and have what we used to refer to as a "Come to Jesus" meeting, telling folks how things really are and what they are going to do. I look at it this way. It appears to me the republican party is divided and elected a compromise candidate to lead them because some are afraid to truly change or commit to conservative values.
In the words of Clint Eastwood, it is a CF (first portion of word is cluster) . Gingrich ruled much differently. He got together with enough of them to develop the Contract for America. Basically he probably had it written before the first meeting but got their input and agreement, probably guiding them along the way. The he took the rest of the party and said, "This is what we are standing for, campaigning on etc. Either you sign on, or your don't." Of course he controlled party funding. I see the difference in Steele is his method of managing. I think he is waiting for a true consensus to emerge.
I would love to point out to him that a camel is a horse designed by a committee. Much like most of the camel dung legislation passed by congresss, I might add.
I see no vision being put forth by Steele. He will agree with Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly when he is on their show but he is not steering the party anywhere that I can see.
Just an observation and opinion, I hope I am wrong.
regards,
5412
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Whenever I get mailers from the GOP asking for a donation I usually enclose a post-it saying "When you start acting like Republicans by being fiscally responsible I'll donate. Meanwhile please accept the enclosed 100 Million Mark note" You can buy Weimar currency at stamp shows for pennies.
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Hi,
Having read posts about dumping McCain and Olympia Snowe from the Republican party, I am not so sure we might be missing something. The consensus is they are liberal and do not represent our views.
While I agree with that, I am not so sure that we are not the ones the Republican party has thrown overboard. I felt abandoned for the last several election cycles. When they send their requests for donations by the droves, I send them all back and tell them they abandoned me and when they want to truly support conservative values rather than pay lip service to them, I might consider coming back.
regards,
5412
Oh yeah, definitely, they have thrown us under the bus. That is how we ended up with McCainez and why the "leadership" keeps pushing the line that the "era of Reagan is over."
The RNC hates us probably more than the liberals.
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I saw on Cavuto (I think) that even some republican congressbastages were being booed at Town Hall meetings. GOOD!
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I saw on Cavuto (I think) that even some republican congressbastages were being booed at Town Hall meetings. GOOD!
Colonel Sir,
Where in Flaudah? This lowly Cpl-E4 is in Lakeland.
regards,
5412
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Adherence to a party will (continue to) destroy the country.
Adherence to a philosophy is the important thing.