The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on October 15, 2009, 08:47:44 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6779783
Oh my.
From Philadelphia, a cleaning woman or receptionist in a dental office alleging to be a real medical professional:
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 04:56 AM
Original message
Sometimes, shit just stares you in the face and dares you to say something...
When I was a kid, I went to see Planet of the Apes. So I'm sitting there and blah blah blah and they get captured by apes WHO SPEAK PERFECT ENGLISH! In fact, their diction and grammar is better than most of my family's. So I said to my mom (of blessed memory)...I was in high school..."They must be on Earth. How could any species evolve on another planet and sound like Winston Churchill, for crying out loud."
So IMO this phenomenon repeats with H1N1. This bug got out of a lab somewhere and that's why there was this world-wide response to the early outbreaks. It was as if the global epidemiological community came together in a room and heard the worst possible news as it related to influenza.
How else can anyone explain the full-court press in virtually every country..they rarely agree upon what day of the week it is, much less the potential catastrophic nature of a virus. I mean...what we have come to terms as AIDS and HIV was killing thousands for YEARS and we clinicians couldn't get anyone to listen to us ("Your practice is getting larger...that's why all these men are coming in with intractable infections and dying quickly." Yeah, like that happened all of the time. Right. ) and it took Rock Hudson's death to get the nation moving at a clip faster than that of a snail. King Ronnie wouldn't even acknowledge the existence of the 'condition' until one of his own died...but that's a story for another day.
If anyone thinks that we and every other technologically advanced country isn't involved in species-lethal genetic recombination of virulent organisms, just know that in labs buried deep beneath the surface of the Earth, there are vials of genetic material which combine flu, botulism, and T-Cell binding components which would eradicate all human life on the planet in no time at all...it would make Stephen King's "The Stand" look optimistic by comparison.
My question is not, how do we handle H1N1, it is "Where TF did this come from and what was the release mechanism and who was involved."
Silent3 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. And therefore viruses are engineered by intelligent apes!
Or something like that.
Your logic is so... escapable.
Sherman A1 (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Agreed
As the OP comments explains the Bubonic Plague and the 1918 Flu so well. Right out of those science labs of history.
Oh, well we are all entitled to our opinions one supposes................but then I never really watched Planet of the Apes so perhaps I missed something.
The militant gigolo primitive comments, but never mind.
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. "Loony"?
Is that a Monty Python word?
My point was that certainly viruses and plagues exist in nature, but the speedy reaction of the powers-that-be to the first outbreaks was stunning and unprecedented.
And many of these installations are below ground level...
Sorry to disappoint...and I AM entitled to my view...especially when it's factual AND BTW, my point about the apes was that it was OBVIOUS that they were on Earth...no shit. And it's OBVIOUS, at least to me and to many scientists that something unusual was afoot here.
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Oh...so you live near an installation and therefore you not only are an expert in what is produced where but know for certain that there are no other places?
Can you see Russia from your house?
The militant gigolo primitive responds again, but never mind.
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Who are you working for?
to accuse a fellow DUer of being delusional b/c (s)he postulates the possibility of a bacteriological warfare item getting loose is not very nice.
That's me being polite...that comes off real fast...
OnyxCollie (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. "You are really loony if you think that there are secret underground research labs."
Whistling past the graveyard, you are.
BSL-4 labs are increasing in frequency, and here's the scary part, the government is uncertain how many BSL-3 labs there are. They are not even required to report their existence to the government.
A virulent pathogen will be released into the environment, either by accident or by design. It's only a matter of time.
conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
25. There are a lot of secret labs
There are also a lot of labs that are common knowledge.
Its what happens in those labs that are secret.
I have a friend who works for CDC.This person has been telling me that when bush took office a lot of people were hired on that the career people there have no idea what they do due to secrecy and security at the labs.
Not saying they are creating captain trips stuff but there is no telling what happens behind closed doors.
I can think of severals goverment project that had tens of thousands of workers and yet news of them never leaked out to the general public.Part of the reason for that was most of the workers had no idea what they were really working on.Sort of a case of the right hand not telling the left hand what was going on.
dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 05:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. I had not looked at that angle. Interesting.
Especially in light of Baxter labs being caught red handed shipping samples of 3 flu virus combination.
remember that story? And they tried to lie about it, which of course created more publicity when knowledgeable people described how it was impossible to "accidentally " create such a cocktail of viruses.
And now we have a flu bug that creates same deathly ill symptoms in younger people as did the 1918 flu, which our country admits they dug up and re-created in bio-labs. "All part of bio-terrorism studies" of course.
Fortunately for Baxter, it was able to make a vaccine very quickly which is being purchased, to great profit, by several governments.
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Ex-actly.
Lots going on. Years ago,I had a conversation with an emigre from the former Soviet Union who is a biochemical geneticist and he scared the living crap out of me...
All those who think that there's all this 'random stuff' going on better be ready to eat their words
PCIntern (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. I believe that my point was lost...the Planet of the Apes reference was that SOMETIMES THINGS ARE OBVIOUS AND PEOPLE GO INTO DENIAL. It had nothing to do with the virus issue...
In the future I will e-lu-ci-date all premises, since it is obvious that I can't make these leaps of rhetoric without excellent transitional development.
sorry to have misled some of you into thinking that I'm a complete moron. (Not moran)
Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
20. You see the same mindset when you try to discuss the events surrounding 9/11
Any mention of the very strange reactions of many of the people in power at that time are subject to cries of "woo woo" in about the length of time it takes a photon to travel the diameter of a proton.
There are some things that many people just do.not.want.to.know.
And they will go to almost any lengths to avoid even noticing some truly bizarre stuff.
conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Denial is not a river in Egypt.
It is a very common phenomenon,without a doubt.
The Court Jester (6 posts) Thu Oct-15-09 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. Check the timeline
The nonstop media blitz about the SwineFlu came out EXACTLY when the "Stress Tests" were being conducted on the banking industry. We all heard countless hours about the SwineFlu Pandemic (when it was just in the very beginning stages of the whole thing) and we heard almost NOTHING about what was going on with the Stress Tests and their results.
Do the math kids.
the other one (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. Welcome to the new DU
Where speculation is loonacy, and Obama-critiqueing is heresy.
I think your Op has merit, but I am one of those who doesn't blame Nader or Oswald.
Lost Jaguar (90 posts) Thu Oct-15-09 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
15. I just wanna go to Point Dume...
...in Malibu, wade into the surf, and shout, "Damn you! You maniacs!" Your "Planet of the Apes" ancedote may not be so far off. I think we sow the seeds of our own destruction. In the end, the meek, the cockroaches and dolphins, will inherit the Earth.
malaise (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. I love people who think and question everything.
HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Interesting perspective for a health care pro (sic). I thought it was already disclosed it came from a lab in China. I thought that was already msm news, though downplayed.
dugaresa (772 posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. to be blunt, if someone really truly released the flu into the general populace we would find out and why?
Because people can't keep secrets, not unless you kill all the researchers involved and all the people in the periphery.
How do I know this? Because I have trained people who were supposed to be in top secret positions at hotels because I was not allowed on their training site because it was so secretive. And guess what? they would always end up telling me what the hell they were up to because the human desire to share their special secret is so overhwelming. Not everyone is so dumb but loads of people are.
Yesterday, I found out a secret again at work, called my boss about it and he was freaking out because no one was supposed to tell! oh well yet again.
Over and over and over again, I have watched human beings let the cat out of the bag and release secrets.
I lived near a military base that was supposed to be just a training site, turns out everyone knew there were ICBM's at the site. oops.
Imagine if what you say is true. You think that all those researchers are always getting paid loads of moohla to shut up? Not enough to keep them from being on Oprah if the price was right. And the money paid out for being a researcher with evidence that the government or a company was covering up some sort of gigantic secret like that would be GIGANTIC.
So if ever that scenario came out, someone is going to spill the beans and the first one to do so will get rich quick.
What would be "top secret positions" at.....hotels?
IsItJustMe (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
26. It's hard to say if this particular virus was created in a lab. As far as aids goes though, there is no doubt, in my mind at least, that it was a man made virus (Created by using monkey organs in the creation of polio vaccines).
Because of the nature of these viruses though, it is almost next to impossible to track them down.
surrealAmerican (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. You're missing something very important in your analysis here.
H1N1, unlikes AIDS, is exactly the sort of health emergency epidemiologists have been warning about for decades. That's why governments are prepared to deal with it now, just like they would have been last year, had it struck then.
Bonobo (1000+ posts) Thu Oct-15-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
30. I am in agreement with you, PCIntern.
It is far too coordinated.
I saw a TV commercial yesterday for soap that used "H1N1" in such a slick way, almost like an ad for it.
No, I have no proof. Call it deep and refined intuition.
I just know it but since I can't prove it, I rarely mention it.
As you said, sometimes it's just staring you in the face. And you recognize it.
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We had a Swine Flu "scare" in the 70's didn't we? or was that the 50's? The government over-reacted then too. Then there was the Bird Flu, remember that?
I haven't seen that this flu is worse than any normal flu?
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We had a Swine Flu "scare" in the 70's didn't we? or was that the 50's? The government over-reacted then too. Then there was the Bird Flu, remember that?
I haven't seen that this flu is worse than any normal flu?
It was around the mid 70s. Only one person actually died from the swine flu--all the other dead people were produced by the vaccine.
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I haven't seen that this flu is worse than any normal flu?
I know half a dozen people who've already had it (not a large sample, I know) and every single one said it lasted 2 days +/- and was far less serious than the regular ol' flu.
Just sayin'.
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A lot of these DUmmies in this thread have been watching the X-Files too much, and taking it WAY too seriously.
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I'm very intrigued by this notion of "top secret positions" in hotels.
Anybody have the slightest idea what that might be?
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I'm very intrigued by this notion of "top secret positions" in hotels.
Anybody have the slightest idea what that might be?
got me
There used to be a secret nuclear bunker under a hotel/club for the government. I think it was the Greenbriar or something... =o)
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I'm very intrigued by this notion of "top secret positions" in hotels.
Anybody have the slightest idea what that might be?
He was saying the training of these people was done in hotels because the trainer was not permitted access to the actual work site.
It is more interesting that this is now the MIHOP flu.
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He was saying the training of these people was done in hotels because the trainer was not permitted access to the actual work site.
It is more interesting that this is now the MIHOP flu.
I think Obama is making the economy crash on purpose, I call it MIHOPE
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I think Obama is making the economy crash on purpose, I call it MIHOPE
I'm torn. Part of me doesn't want to really believe that, because I know what the reasoning would be. Part of me hopes against hope that he truly does want sweetness and light and a rising DOW.
But, I know Bernanke is also going to have to orchestrate a crash if the Treasury is to have any chance of unloading all our debt offerings without rates skyrocketing, especially since his Quantatative Easing (monetizing our debt) is coming to an end.
All in all, it should be interesting to watch everything unfold at the end of the year, especially leading into tax season. :popcorn:
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All in all, it should be interesting to watch everything unfold at the end of the year, especially leading into tax season. :popcorn:
"Interesting" is scary too
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"Interesting" is scary too
Yeah, it is, but it will force a lot of people to re-prioritize and get back to basics, and that includes the economy as a whole.
The problem is, we're facing a currency crisis after we finally do come out of this. We could've allowed all the losers and bloated companies to fail, and the pain would've been immediate, relatively quick, and over with. Instead, we've literally printed and borrowed a few trillion dollars and pumped it into the markets just to maintain the status quo, and we're still facing the same problems we were to begin with.
Keynesian assholes. :bird:
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It was around the mid 70s. Only one person actually died from the swine flu--all the other dead people were produced by the vaccine.
Remember this one?
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/783656-overview
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Remember this one?
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/783656-overview
Nope, but I had the Hong Kong Flu (is that the bird flu?) in '77. I got to stay home from school for a whole week. And my brother too. And my mom went to work. We were home alone. :o
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Remember this one?
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/783656-overview
Yup. My grandfather was there, but didn't get sick.
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Well, for heaven's sake, if this is really some nefarious government bioweapon then they better fire the scientists that developed it because they've done a piss-poor job.
Cindie
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Well, for heaven's sake, if this is really some nefarious government bioweapon then they better fire the scientists that developed it because they've done a piss-poor job.
Cindie
I'm with you, Cin! Talk about incompetence! If you can't keep it in house you're pretty frikkin' worthless!
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And remember that all good zombie stories start with a benign immunization.
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I'm very intrigued by this notion of "top secret positions" in hotels.
Anybody have the slightest idea what that might be?
Mystery shoppers and "How to Sell on EBay" seminars. :lmao: