The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: franksolich on September 15, 2009, 07:31:12 AM
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http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6550929
Oh my.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 03:44 AM
Original message
Obama advisor champions rationed health care
Ezekiel J. Emanuel...serves as a special advisor on health policy to the director of the White House’s Office of Management and Budget and is the chair of the Department of Bioethics at the Clinical Center of the National Institutes of Health...In March, Emanuel, a breast oncologist, was appointed to the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative.....blahblahblah
TicketyBoo (102 posts) Tue Sep-15-09 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Would you PLEASE stop referencing material from the World Socialist Web Site?
Now, that's not very tolerant of a primitive allegedly from Nebraska, to object to a diversity of opinions.
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'm pretty sure you know the answer that question.
TicketyBoo (102 posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Not really.
I'm fairly new around here.
I just find referencing that particular site offensive. If others insist on going there, maybe this isn't the place for me.
Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. ABSOLUTELY! The fact that only .00000000001% of the memberrs on this board reference that site is totally a reason to leave this board.
Of course, I notice that you did not take the time to address any of the ideas in the OP.
TicketyBoo (102 posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. I didn't come here to defend myself.
I can do that on a daily basis up close and personal in Red State Nebraska.
But THAT far left I don't care to go.
Yay, red state Nebraska.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. so don't. debate the content or ignore it. i'm a registered democrat who voted for obama.
wsws is good counter-point to the nyt/wa post/wsj party line.
"that far left" my ass. as if the dems' policies hadn't moved to the right of nixon.
nightrain (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. yes. thanks for posting this article. I am very interested in the potential impact that Zeke is having on Obama and where Obama wants to take healthcare.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. no. it's not racist, sexist, or illegal. debate the article or prove the claims are mistaken.
Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. It's got the word socialtist in it, thus it is suspect.
Ideas? That's for nerds. Except if you are Al Gore, then ideas are the bomb.
The Vermontese cali primitive:
cali (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. it's simply filled with lies and propaganda and it's all you obediently swallow, just like a good little follower.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. prove it.
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 03:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. (shrug) All scarce goods are rationed. The only question is *how* are they rationed.
Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Popular wisdom says we have the most glorious health care system second to god. How then, can we justify our health care as "scarce goods."
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm sorry you don't know what the words you're using mean.
Luminous Animal (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes I do.
I am rubber. You are glue. ****, you are an idiot.
cali (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. and YOU are completely off the rails, dearie. Do try to exercise just a wee bit of self-control. Or keep reaching into your diapers for more poo to fling.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. I think the use of personal invective shows who's off the rails.
I notice you generally prefer that to actually doing the work of debating the material.
cali (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. so, in your world "****, you are an idiot" is a mere pleasantry?
And hannah, it's not as if you EVER argue anything. You simply post shallow propaganda, my dear.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. i didn't post that comment, cali. evidentally you're not paying attention.
maybe you should go cool off.
bluestateguy (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. And now for this morning's far left socialist drivel
So far to the Left, it's to the Right.
Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Tue Sep-15-09 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. red-baiting. shocker.
My, my, the primitives are beating up on each other more than the primitives are beating up on decent and civilized people; it's great.
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They seem to get upset when the kooks they are following are pointed out.
Hard to believe they want that agenda hidden. :whatever:
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Sarah Palin to the white courtesy phone. Your vindication is calling.
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These peoples' nerves are frazzled to the ends! They're picking fights with each other for no good reason. It's been happening all over the island today.
Luminous Animal is one of the more stupid ones, don't you think? What doesn't he get about "scarce resources?" I mean, it's scary, the stupid. People are already banging the drum about a severe shortage of doctors that would occur under the HR3200. That's a scarce resource, Einstein.
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.00000000001% of DUmmies would be 0.00000005 DUmmies... or is that 0.0000000005 DUmmies? I suck at math.
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I added my 2 cents worth....
:tongue:
cm0431 (3 posts) Tue Sep-15-09 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Dr. Emanuel also said...
"Vague promises of savings from cutting waste, enhancing prevention and wellness, installing electronic medical records and improving quality are merely 'lipstick' cost control, more for show and public relations than for true change," he wrote last year (Health Affairs Feb. 27, 2008).
Savings, he writes, will require changing how doctors think about their patients: Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath too seriously, "as an imperative to do everything for the patient regardless of the cost or effects on others" (Journal of the American Medical Association, June 18, 2008).
He says medical care should be reserved for the non-disabled, not given to those "who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens . . . An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia" (Hastings Center Report, Nov.-Dec. '96).
Dr. David Blumenthal, another key Obama adviser, agrees. He recommends slowing medical innovation to control health spending. Blumenthal has long advocated government health-spending controls, though he concedes they're "associated with longer waits" and "reduced availability of new and expensive treatments and devices" (New England Journal of Medicine, March 8, 2001).
It's all there in black and white and cited by publication and dates.
Deletion in 5, 4, 3...
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I added my 2 cents worth....
:tongue:
Deletion in 5, 4, 3...
It's still there, sir, but surely not for long.
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It's still there, sir, but surely not for long.
Almost twenty minutes, and it still survives.
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Obama has pledged to slash more than $600 billion from Medicare and Medicaid as part of his health care plan. Utilizing comparative effectiveness research (CER), this council will recommend cuts—in the form of cost-cutting “efficiencies†to these federal programs for the elderly, disabled and poor. The cuts are central to Obama’s overhaul of the health care system and are supported by all versions of legislation currently under consideration in Congress.
(snip)
In other words, the majority of the population would be relegated to a basic minimum level of care,
This is a liberals wet dream; everyone is covered and equally miserable. They have nothing to offer but faux-outrage, this is what they've wanted all their lives, this was the goal.
.
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I added my 2 cents worth....
:tongue:
Deletion in 5, 4, 3...
Still there. Marine, you can ride with this cavalryman any time. And I'll be right with you when you storm a beach. As I told my wife a couple of nights ago, Freedom and liberty are worth dying for. (She agreed with me, BTW.)
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A lot of DUers hate leftist economics. You guys paint all DUers as socialists, when in fact those of us who push leftist economic ideas often get shouted down. Plenty of DUers are capitalists, and quite a few of them have money. You guys make fun of DUers as broke and jobless, but in reality it's sometimes hard to advocate anything leftist economically because the wealthy DUers hate it as much as you do. Many of the wealthy ones are hypocrites.
Almost all DUers are very far to the left on social issues, but the same is not true on economic issues. Personally, I'm the opposite. There are several social issues I can't discuss at DU because I'm not sufficiently leftist. Got banned twice and learned my lesson, lol.
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A lot of DUers hate leftist economics. You guys paint all DUers as socialists, when in fact those of us who push leftist economic ideas often get shouted down. Plenty of DUers are capitalists, and quite a few of them have money.
If course not. Skinner could teach us all a little something about Capitalism. Gore? Hell, that snake oil salesman is the biggest Capitalist in the country.
They just want you to live like a Socialist.
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If course not. Skinner could teach us all a little something about Capitalism. Gore? Hell, that snake oil salesman is the biggest Capitalist in the country.
They just want you to live like a Socialist.
With them at the head of table as all the rest scamper for the promised crumbs.
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If course not. Skinner could teach us all a little something about Capitalism.
I agree. One has to have a star because that is the way things work, but I have never been taken in by the fund drives. Hosting doesn't cost $100,000. Somebody is making a very comfortable living. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, I just wish it could be presented more honestly. Sure, there are operating costs, but "contribute to DU because we like to be wealthy" would be closer to it. It makes it a little difficult for those of us who oppose a focus on wealth to get the message out credibly when the board is for-profit enterprise that is doing good business.