The Conservative Cave
Current Events => The DUmpster => Topic started by: Freeper on September 12, 2009, 03:37:45 PM
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I have a question for you lurking DUers. And unlike at DU you can sign up and answer the question.
Why are you so angry over the marches today?
I have seen post after post of how you want to hurt and kill us.
If we are the minority like you claim why are you so threatened by us?
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And why, Little Goons, do all your criticisms come in incomplete sound bites and never-ever come in complete thoughts? An example of this would be saying "teabaggers" lie, and leaving it there. OK. But, what is that lie and what is the truth that makes what the "teabagger" said a known lie? Be real clear.
See? You need substance. You Little Goons seem to be just empty shells. Defend yourselves! Show us the honesty and truth that is on your side. Lay it all out there.
Thank you.
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I have a question for you lurking DUers. And unlike at DU you can sign up and answer the question.
Why are you so angry over the marches today?
I have seen post after post of how you want to hurt and kill us.
If we are the minority like you claim why are you so threatened by us?
A few of them know that Lucy is about to yank the football out from in front of them. :stirpot:
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Oh yeah, Little Goons - I've been asking this for years: Why do you have to have a closed and guarded forum? How come "opposing" views aren't welcome at your Little Goon watering hole called DU?
We normal people, us conservatives, CONSTANTLY invite you Little Goons to sign up here. You will not get banned as long as you act like a grown up. Why is it we want to discuss politics with you but you cannot afford to allow such discussion at DU? What's the problem? Is your politics and worldview really so hard to defend? It sure loks that way.
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I have a question for you lurking DUers. And unlike at DU you can sign up and answer the question.
Why are you so angry over the marches today?
I have seen post after post of how you want to hurt and kill us.
If we are the minority like you claim why are you so threatened by us?
Just as they believe they own blacks and women as far as issues go (who are the racists and sexists btw DUmmies?) they think protest is some magical nirvana that they are only entitled to.
Their reaction to this is the same demonic rage they have for a Condi Rice,Sarah Palin or Clarence Thomas.
They wish to rule and control all and when anything escapes from that they have the shrieking fit of a 4 year old that lost their favorite toy.
A mix of mental immaturity combined with a greedy obsession for wealth and power.
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Good questions and if they had a hair on their azz they'd sign-up to make their so called 'intellectual arguments'.
You Prims pride yourselves on your compassion, humanity, honesty, intellect, blah, blah, blah, but fly into a jealous rage when your opponents come together in greater numbers than you've ever been able to manage to make their voices heard.
What's stopping you from doing the same? I'd say being lazy keyboard commandos tops the list of your lame excuses.
Come on, answer Freeper's questions. You're safe behind your monitor. No one is threatening you, so why all the angst and envy?
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Oh, come on, admit it. It's fun to watch them rolling around, frothing at the mouth, knowing what's coming at them, and yet totally unable to stop it.
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Part of the problem, if not in fact the major part of the problem, is that the primitives won't come here because they think they're exposing themselves to possible harm.
As if a fist will fly out of their computer monitor, bashing them in the face.
It's really stupid, this fear.
This is the internet, this isn't real life.
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(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/Larson09/Funny%20Shit/TheInternetHasSpoken.jpg)
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If only Chris's picture was real life there are quiet a few people I would love to get a punch like that
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This is the internet, this isn't real life.
The Primitives believe the internet is real life-- or at least they wish it was. The wire makes them feel empowered, useful, and legion. Of course, none of this is true in their real lives - If any of it was, they wouldn't be Primitives.
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Kind of makes you wonder. We used to make fun of supercrash and the others that came over to "educate" us, but, it makes you wonder if they were the bravest DUmmies. I mean after all, they at least signed up and tried to enlighten us. They had balls, apparenty. The reason they got banned was for basically pooping on the floor and not acting like an adult, not for his views. The others like to sit and act like keyboard commandos, sending out healing white light. These are the same people who, knowingly can't deal with the real world.
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I wouldn't be surprised to learn that all of the DUmmie angst seen on DU is just that. Only seen on DU. I'm willing to bet that 99.9% of them are meek in real life putting forth no real effort to make a substantive difference in the world. DU is their only outlet for their impotent rage. They think they matter but they don't. The powers that be in the Democrat party only pay them lip service. They are the proverbial "not our kind dear" in the eyes of the real power brokers. Skins is supposed to keep them corralled and placated. Every once in a while, a DUmmie will look up from the bong haze and question their impact but mostly they just keep building up the cheeto dust on their keyboards assuming that they matter.
I think this is why they don't want to engage in real debate. It would mean leaving the echo chamber and actually honing their viewpoint against opposing ones. They aren't interested in the real debate taking place among productive members of the real society beyond the screen in front of them. They only want to continue to be malcontents that can't even muster up enough passion to leave the basement and become a member of society. Some do, but it's mostly snarling and spitting at the rest of us while we cross the street to avoid their insanity and magic markers.
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Once in a while you will see one show up. Even at the old site they would. They would try to defend the indefesible but in the end those that didn't get banned there or here for being a total waste of skin ,would eventually slink off on their own and never darken our site again.
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Once in a while you will see one show up. Even at the old site they would. They would try to defend the indefesible but in the end those that didn't get banned there or here for being a total waste of skin ,would eventually slink off on their own and never darken our site again.
We have a visitor now.
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We have a visitor now.
Let's hope that he/she/it decides to take the leap.
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We seem to have several new folks tonight....
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Kind of makes you wonder. We used to make fun of supercrash and the others that came over to "educate" us, but, it makes you wonder if they were the bravest DUmmies. I mean after all, they at least signed up and tried to enlighten us. They had balls, apparenty. The reason they got banned was for basically pooping on the floor and not acting like an adult, not for his views. The others like to sit and act like keyboard commandos, sending out healing white light. These are the same people who, knowingly can't deal with the real world.
Supercrash has been making semi-regular appearances (under new names) at CU lately.
Just sayin'.
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Well this isn't going to make me real popular and I'm kind of glad the bitch slaps are gone :-) but folks with opposing views are not always treated with respect when they post here. Lanie comes to mind. Mia comes to mind.
Obviously there are way more of us, than there are of them here so they are ganged up on and it frequently ends in a bunch of name calling. So I can understand why many of them wouldn't feel comfortable posting here.
But it is kind of stupid for them to call us out over there, where they know their challenge can't be answered.
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A lot of it is attitude, real and percieved. If the poster is really wanting to debate, and not educate us dumb conservatives, then it goes smoother. I understand what you're saying Terry, but you have to have thick skin initially to be a liberal and come over here. If you can make it through that, and offer honest debate, know and back up what you believe, you'll last. I respect Mia, because she does offer good debate. Most posters here just get tired of the drive by posters that come here, call us ignorant racists, and leave. Sorry, but, that doesn't work.
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A lot of it is attitude, real and percieved. If the poster is really wanting to debate, and not educate us dumb conservatives, then it goes smoother. I understand what you're saying Terry, but you have to have thick skin initially to be a liberal and come over here. If you can make it through that, and offer honest debate, know and back up what you believe, you'll last. I respect Mia, because she does offer good debate. Most posters here just get tired of the drive by posters that come here, call us ignorant racists, and leave. Sorry, but, that doesn't work.
I had no problem with Mia, but Lanie was just :mental:.
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I didn't read much of Lanies posts. I think that was when I had some things going on and didn't post much. Been kinda quiet here and at CU. Just haven't had much to say. Been doing a lot of reading.
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I'm willing to bet that 99.9% of them are meek in real life putting forth no real effort to make a substantive difference in the world. DU is their only outlet for their impotent rage. They think they matter but they don't.
I tend to agree, especially when it comes to the posters there that have 10,000+ posts People that spend that much time online tend to be introverted, so the only place they can scream is from safely behind their keyboard. To venture out of there and actually have to defend what they believe to those of opposing viewpoints? No way.
The closest experiment I've seen try and have a common place to talk is NU, but even the libs there can do little more than throw insults and try their best to act like they have some type of superior intellect that you can't understand whenever they can't explain their inconsistencies. As soon as they start saying things online they wouldn't say to your face, then I lose interest with engaging them. The primitives do that all the time, which is another reason they wouldn't ever say outloud to an individual what they type online. As you said, it's because they're meek in the "weak of mind" sense of the word.
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A lot of it is attitude, real and perceived. If the poster is really wanting to debate, and not educate us dumb conservatives, then it goes smoother. I understand what you're saying Terry, but you have to have thick skin initially to be a liberal and come over here. If you can make it through that, and offer honest debate, know and back up what you believe, you'll last. I respect Mia, because she does offer good debate. Most posters here just get tired of the drive by posters that come here, call us ignorant racists, and leave. Sorry, but, that doesn't work.
Ya know; it helps if you can actually PROVE the crap you spew at the DUmp!
The one thing all of the stranglers lack when they come over here is FACTS! Why is it they always get in the way of LOGICAL conversations with sane people?
The reason DUmpsters don't come here to have a decent debate is because we shred them into spaghetti with FACTS! Innuendo and falsehoods just won't work with people who actually LOOK THINGS UP! We figured out what Google was a long time ago! It's the same reason the alphabet networks are pulling hind tit!
(in my best Redneck keyboard), It's the reason Y'all are goin' to be suckin' ass, come the next election, hippie!
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It's the reason Y'all are goin' to be suckin' ass, come the next election, hippie!
If the Dems choke through the socialization of health care, they could lose 120-140 seats in the House. Seats that were considered to be stone-cold locks for the Dems will be in play. If they don't get it through, they'll lose maybe 80 seats in the House.
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Well this isn't going to make me real popular and I'm kind of glad the bitch slaps are gone :-) but folks with opposing views are not always treated with respect when they post here. Lanie comes to mind. Mia comes to mind.
Obviously there are way more of us, than there are of them here so they are ganged up on and it frequently ends in a bunch of name calling. So I can understand why many of them wouldn't feel comfortable posting here.
But it is kind of stupid for them to call us out over there, where they know their challenge can't be answered.
I agree, and have said so as well. So no bitch slaps from me!
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Ya know; it helps if you can actually PROVE the crap you spew at the DUmp!
Yup they get out of the echo chamber and try to run their BS by us we can make them go batshit crazy with two simple words..."prove it".
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To bad the words put up or shut up does not work with their little pea brains
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Ya know; it helps if you can actually PROVE the crap you spew at the DUmp!
The one thing all of the stranglers lack when they come over here is FACTS! Why is it they always get in the way of LOGICAL conversations with sane people?
The reason DUmpsters don't come here to have a decent debate is because we shred them into spaghetti with FACTS! Innuendo and falsehoods just won't work with people who actually LOOK THINGS UP! We figured out what Google was a long time ago! It's the same reason the alphabet networks are pulling hind tit!
(in my best Redneck keyboard), It's the reason Y'all are goin' to be suckin' ass, come the next election, hippie!
Don't know if this was directed at me or not, but, I'm not a hippie and definately not a liberal. :-)
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Well this isn't going to make me real popular and I'm kind of glad the bitch slaps are gone :-) but folks with opposing views are not always treated with respect when they post here. Lanie comes to mind. Mia comes to mind.
Obviously there are way more of us, than there are of them here so they are ganged up on and it frequently ends in a bunch of name calling. So I can understand why many of them wouldn't feel comfortable posting here.
But it is kind of stupid for them to call us out over there, where they know their challenge can't be answered.
Yeah that. There are some folks that just can't disengage their ego from the opinions on any website, and just can't handle the fact that someone could be sane and not agree with them. Every place has a few of 'em. They seem to actually be a strong majority of the posters on DU.
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Don't know if this was directed at me or not, but, I'm not a hippie and definately not a liberal. :-)
I guess it could be directed at you if you're a DUmmie! Well, are ya? if so, I expect ya to put up some PROOF!
I don't generally use smileys, but :-)
edited to add smiley
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Yup they get out of the echo chamber and try to run their BS by us we can make them go batshit crazy with two simple words..."prove it".
There you go being a big meanie again.
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There you go being a big meanie again.
Ya forgot the doody-head part... :p
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Don't know if this was directed at me or not, but, I'm not a hippie and definately not a liberal. :-)
you better be for free love and boobiez of GET THE **** OUT!
:bird:
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Well, I'm always for free love and boobiez!
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Well, I'm always for free love and boobiez!
Welcome aboard, leg.
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Thanks. Been here a while. Just haven't posted much.
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Hi, I'm a DUmmie. Yeah, seriously. An actual member of what you guys refer to as the DUmp, etc. :tongue:
I'm not one of the "famous" members, unfortunately (or maybe fortunately, as I don't like that sort of mindless cliquishness anyway). Nor am I a hugely popular DUmmie. I have a bad habit of saying things a lot of people there don't particularly like. I do have well over 1000+ and most DUers probably at least know of my existence. I've hit Greatest several times, for all that's worth. It's worth a little more to me, because Greatest is basically a popularity contest, so if I get on there, it means the content must have been above average (or abnormally awful, from you guys' perspective). Most of you also know of my existence, although sadly I don't get really frequent attention here. It's heartbreaking. :-)
I don't suppose it would be too hard for you guys to figure out who I am, so just for the record, and right from the outset, I should make it clear that I won't confirm my identity even if you guys figure it out. That would be a rather silly thing to do, given that I'd probably get booted off what you guys call Skin's Island rather rapidly, since I already suspect I'm on pretty thin ice there anyway, lol. There are a couple issues I actually agree with you guys on (at least more than I do the left), and it wouldn't do to have this fact exposed at DU, because as you correctly point out, they do not like dissent. I've already been banned twice, actually. Two accounts down the toilet well before 1000 posts, but with this last account I finally got the message and disciplined myself to avoid the topics that get me in trouble. Ain't self-censorship fun?
So, a bit about me. I can't reveal too much, because that would just make my identity blatantly obvious and take the fun out of it for all of us. Let's just say I'm pretty much your typical liberal except for a few isolated issues. I'm not a hippie, though. I can't really stand them. No balls at all, and no real intellectual substance beyond a desire to legitimize endless dope-smoking sessions as some kind of political statement. I also part from most liberals on a couple of those tricky "values" issues. Economically, though, I'm left of Marx and should be able to provide lots of entertainment for you guys on that front. You won't find a bigger tax-and-spend commie than me, although I do oppose most benefits for illegals, for the simple reason that we natural-born American commie bastards will eventually lose our gravy train if we try to lavish largess on the entire world. In a perfect world, I'd be all for it, but this ain't a perfect world.
Why am I here? A couple reasons. Firstly, I tend to agree with those who suggest that progressives are presenting a pretty poor account of themselves by refusing to engage you guys at all. I mean, come on, like one guy said, it's not as if any of you can put a fist through the monitor, so what's the fear? I can understand other DUers not wanting to waste their time, but I think it might be good for me. That's the second reason I'm here. I've become aware I need to improve my skills in effectively dealing with people who disagree with me.
As some here correctly suggest, there's a limit to what ranting self-assuredly in an echo chamber can accomplish. One also needs to engage one's opponents, and learn to do so skillfully if at all possible. This looks like a good place to hone my patience and work on my temper, because you guys lay it on pretty thick here. I do not expect to "educate" you guys or change your minds. That won't be happening, and you won't be "educating" me or changing my mind, either. Political ideas spring from values that run way too deep for that. Most of your values are not mine, and most of mine are not yours. That is extremely unlikely to change, but like someone said, sane people ought to be able to disagree.
So anyway, enough rambling. You know how long-winded and self-absorbed us liberals can be, hehe. Just wanted to pop in, announce that a DUmmie has heard the call, and see what happens. :evillaugh:
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Political ideas spring from values that run way too deep for that. Most of your values are not mine, and most of mine are not yours. That is extremely unlikely to change, but like someone said, sane people ought to be able to disagree.
Oh my.
One is speechless.
Welcome, and sit down, relax, and kick off the shoes, making yourself comfortable.
We're mellow here, and as you pointed out, sane people can disagree without getting all wrought up and upset.
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You won't find a bigger tax-and-spend commie than me, although I do oppose most benefits for illegals, for the simple reason that we natural-born American commie bastards will eventually lose our gravy train if we try to lavish largess on the entire world. In a perfect world, I'd be all for it, but this ain't a perfect world.
Doesn`t that statement fly in the face of Communist ideals and pretty well sum up why Communism fails.
It doesn`t elevate (other then a very small percentage) anyone economically but eventually will leave everyone poor.
As you said,it isn`t a perfect world and that is the reason alone any form of Marxist economics is doomed.
I`m not trying to pick an argument,you have been very well spoken and pleasant,just that statement struck me as being a bit contradictory.
I suspect you yearn for the idealism of it all but deep down also know it can`t work.
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I've gotta say, you came over here with the right attitude, at least so far, and I for one appreciate it. Just beware...there are those here that are, um, a little coarse ( :-)) in defending their beliefs, so be ready for some :hammer:.
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I've gotta say, you came over here with the right attitude, at least so far, and I for one appreciate it. Just beware...there are those here that are, um, a little coarse in defending their beliefs, so be ready.
Oh now, madam, we're all nice guys here.
Some of us are a little rumbuctious at times, like a bunch of tiger cubs playing around, but nothing more than that.
I'm not sure what to make of the Phenomenon; it's nothing like what I've ever seen, coming from Skins's island, either here or at our old home.
Surely everyone here remembers other entrances by primitives--the Phenomenon is a non-primitive, by the way--where they came in here spewing obscenities and insults before we even got to know them.
As far as I'm concerned, the Phenomenon is as free as the air, to disagree with us, and dispute us; there's no reason to walk on eggshells. The only hard-and-fast rules in this, the DUmpster, are that one not bash the military, and that one not hurl obscenities and invectives at other members, unless at franksolich. As long as one follows those two rules, one is pretty much unbannable, no matter one's opinions.
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Hi, I'm a DUmmie. Yeah, seriously. An actual member of what you guys refer to as the DUmp, etc. :tongue:
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You've started out well.
Be prepared to cop a lot of flack as it's not often we get a real deal liberal to play with.
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I concur and hope that as long as any DUer registers here and is polite and respectful to others that the same is afforded to them.
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Wow--a liberal with a brain, who comes in willing to discuss rather than lecture.
Be still my heart! :heart:
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As some here correctly suggest, there's a limit to what ranting self-assuredly in an echo chamber can accomplish. One also needs to engage one's opponents, and learn to do so skillfully if at all possible. This looks like a good place to hone my patience and work on my temper, because you guys lay it on pretty thick here. I do not expect to "educate" you guys or change your minds. That won't be happening, and you won't be "educating" me or changing my mind, either. Political ideas spring from values that run way too deep for that. Most of your values are not mine, and most of mine are not yours. That is extremely unlikely to change, but like someone said, sane people ought to be able to disagree.
Don't be so sure of not changing your thoughts and feelings on some issues. It's happened before. Common sense can rub off through interactions.
Unlike $kins Island one is not auto nuked here for stating one's political preferences. I think you'll find CC members willing to engage in reasonable, adult discussion without resorting to juvenile name calling and personal attacks as is the debate style ala DU.
Welcome to you.
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Hello all, thank you for the welcome. I must admit, I can't imagine getting such a reasonable welcome if I were a conservative posting on DU (supposing for a moment that conservatives were allowed to post on DU, which of course they are not).
This is encouraging, although I expect that the warnings some gave are correct and I might encounter some hostility as the discussions progress. I will try to avoid responding unkindly to such hostility. This is you guys' house and I am a guest in it.
Thank you for not biting my head off immediately. I was wondering if the claim that this forum welcomes lefties to sign up and discuss the issues was genuine. It seems that it is. I congratulate you on being sincere about this invitation.
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Thank you for not biting my head off immediately. I was wondering if the claim that this forum welcomes lefties to sign up and discuss the issues was genuine. It seems that it is. I congratulate you on being sincere about this invitation.
Just remember, you don't have to walk on eggshells here; your opinions, perceptions, and experiences are just as valid as those of anyone else.
As a matter of style, it's best to comment what one knows, rather than what one "feels."
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So, Token, can you answer Freeper's original questions?
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Yeah, I'll answer them.
Why are you so angry over the marches today?
I'm not, personally. I don't agree with many of the viewpoints expressed, but they absolutely have the right to march.
I have seen post after post of how you want to hurt and kill us.
I do not want to hurt and kill you. Rather, I would like you to have a public option for health care. Note that I did say "option," if you did not want to use it, you could retain your existing coverage. I understand you do not support this, though. You do not want to be required to pay for it if it is not something you are likely to use, which is understandable. I do wish you were willing to help those who do not have health care, but I understand you do not see that as your responsibility but rather each person's own.
If we are the minority like you claim why are you so threatened by us?
I'm not threatened, but I do think the tea partyers are having a lot of influence on the health care debate despite being the minority, because they are very willing to take a strong stand for what they believe in. I wish those on my side of the fence shared this willingness, but the derisive stereotype of lefties being armchair warriors has a certain amount of truth to it. We don't organize, we don't fight, we don't take to the streets, and therefore even a determined minority can derail our plans because we show no willingness to stand up for ourselves.
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Hello all, thank you for the welcome. I must admit, I can't imagine getting such a reasonable welcome if I were a conservative posting on DU (supposing for a moment that conservatives were allowed to post on DU, which of course they are not).
This is encouraging, although I expect that the warnings some gave are correct and I might encounter some hostility as the discussions progress. I will try to avoid responding unkindly to such hostility. This is you guys' house and I am a guest in it.
Thank you for not biting my head off immediately. I was wondering if the claim that this forum welcomes lefties to sign up and discuss the issues was genuine. It seems that it is. I congratulate you on being sincere about this invitation.
Welcome to CC. If you haven't already, please make sure you stop by the Welcome area. Also check out the rules of conduct in the suggestions and feedback section.
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I'm not threatened, but I do think the tea partyers are having a lot of influence on the health care debate despite being the minority, because they are very willing to take a strong stand for what they believe in. I wish those on my side of the fence shared this willingness, but the derisive stereotype of lefties being armchair warriors has a certain amount of truth to it. We don't organize, we don't fight, we don't take to the streets, and therefore even a determined minority can derail our plans because we show no willingness to stand up for ourselves.
It's more that when you do take to the streets - there always seems to be a whole bunch of disparate sometimes conflicting messages being sent as if every fringe lunatic is using the gathering to voice their own demands and concerns rather than sending a universal message.
Also - that it seems every time you do take to the streets the confrontational people come out and make a right mess of your PR by acting like complete assholes and breaking things etc.
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It's more that when you do take to the streets - there always seems to be a whole bunch of disparate sometimes conflicting messages being sent as if every fringe lunatic is using the gathering to voice their own demands and concerns rather than sending a universal message.
Also - that it seems every time you do take to the streets the confrontational people come out and make a right mess of your PR by acting like complete assholes and breaking things etc.
Bingo. Beck made a good point a few days ago that during those protests in New York, more then 200 people where arrested. Yet with the rally in D.C. where as many as two million might have been there, there wasn't a single arrest.
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First of all, welcome.
You're going to be asked questions from all sides.
I have one.
Am I a racist for disagreeing with President Obama's vision for America? Specifically his health care plan and his choice to increase government intrusion into private industry?
Personally, I think Jimmy Carter, alleging racism for disagreeing with the administration further proves what a moron he is, but that's just me.
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First of all, welcome.
You're going to be asked questions from all sides.
I have one.
Am I a racist for disagreeing with President Obama's vision for America? Specifically his health care plan and his choice to increase government intrusion into private industry?
Personally, I think Jimmy Carter, alleging racism for disagreeing with the administration further proves what a moron he is, but that's just me.
He actually made a post in the Jimmy thread here in the DUmp about that.
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LC EFA,
It's more that when you do take to the streets - there always seems to be a whole bunch of disparate sometimes conflicting messages being sent as if every fringe lunatic is using the gathering to voice their own demands and concerns rather than sending a universal message.
Also - that it seems every time you do take to the streets the confrontational people come out and make a right mess of your PR by acting like complete assholes and breaking things etc.
Yes, I can't honestly dispute any of that. Some of us do try to focus on presenting some kind of effective message, but getting leftists to stop the circular firing squad is like "herding cats," as they say. Most leftists are inherently anti-authoritarian (unless they are in the positions of authority), and some tend to see any kind of attempt at effective organization as fascism. And we do have our fair share of people who are insane and ruin PR for us, although I would suggest that is often a problem for your side of things as well.
Splashdown,
You're going to be asked questions from all sides.
I have one.
Am I a racist for disagreeing with President Obama's vision for America? Specifically his health care plan and his choice to increase government intrusion into private industry?
No. Disagreeing with Obama does not automatically make someone a racist. I personally find the way some DUers use "racism" and "sexism" as instant-win trump cards to shut down opposition repugnant. I've never done it and I've never agreed with it. It is a fundamentally dishonest method of debate.
Personally, I think Jimmy Carter, alleging racism for disagreeing with the administration further proves what a moron he is, but that's just me.
Did Carter do that? I was not aware. Can you provide a link to the details of this?
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http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/09/16/obama-and-wh-team-turn-deaf-ear-to-carters-racism-allegations-deny-national-conversation-on-race-going-on-right-now/
Plenty of posts about it around here. I'd suggest reading through the politics forum, so you can see some of the things from our viewpoints.
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http://whitehouse.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/09/16/obama-and-wh-team-turn-deaf-ear-to-carters-racism-allegations-deny-national-conversation-on-race-going-on-right-now/
Plenty of posts about it around here. I'd suggest reading through the politics forum, so you can see some of the things from our viewpoints.
It's also helpful to check the "political compass" test.
http://www.conservativecave.com/index.php/topic,28899.0.html
It's in the DUmping Ground, a subsidiary forum to the DUmpster.
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Did Carter do that? I was not aware. Can you provide a link to the details of this?
Charlie Gibson is that you? :p
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I'll have a look, although I'm already fairly familiar with most conservative viewpoints as I've looked into it fairly extensively. Unlike some lefties, I think it's important to try to understand the opposition's perspective not as I'd like to characterize it, but as they themselves characterize it. Anyone can make up a caricature of the opposition which is pleasant to cling to and easy to knock down. It is much more challenging to try to see things from the actual perspective of others, and it also results in a better understanding of the debate.
Anyway, relating to Carter:
"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he is an African American," Carter told NBC Nightly News on Tuesday.
I think some of it is motivated by that, but by no means "an overwhelming portion." So I disagree with Carter here.
It's also helpful to check the "political compass" test.
Yeah, I'm around -8 on the economic scale and -3 on the social one. Hope that doesn't cause any heart attacks. :-)
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I do wish you were willing to help those who do not have health care, but I understand you do not see that as your responsibility but rather each person's own.
Welcome.
Sometimes on the web things are said and not quite clear, which might be the case here, so if I misread then oops.
Conservatives have no problem helping others, we'd just prefer it be done prima facia rather than some gov't bureaucracy. The same gov't that can give you healthcare can take it away or severly limit it, and we don't care to start down that road. We prefer market solutions. Give me the opprotunity to pitch in and help those who can't pay for their medical bills and I'm there, I'd just rather keep it local or statewide, smaller scale, and under control as to get more bang for the buck. I really don't see this as a left/right thing.
The discussion on how to help those who don't have health insurance is a good one, but there's ways to do it that don't invlove add'l gov't. For ease of understanding, call it our own version of being anti-authoritarian.
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He actually made a post in the Jimmy thread here in the DUmp about that.
apologies.
Missed that.
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Greetings token! You seem civil and thoughtful, I look forward to interesting discussions. I personally am not opposed to a public option that is limited to handling the actual problem that needs to be solved, which is how to cover people who commercial insurers completely refuse to cover and who desire coverage. However I believe that there are far less drastic ways to do this than gutting the entire existing system with which about 85% of the population is relatively well-satisfied.
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I have a quick question for you, what the hell happened to your party? It seems that since the mid to late 60's the DNC has been taken over by far-left radicals who are sympathetic to left-wing despots and Communists?
So, WTF?
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I'll have a look, although I'm already fairly familiar with most conservative viewpoints as I've looked into it fairly extensively. Unlike some lefties, I think it's important to try to understand the opposition's perspective not as I'd like to characterize it, but as they themselves characterize it. Anyone can make up a caricature of the opposition which is pleasant to cling to and easy to knock down. It is much more challenging to try to see things from the actual perspective of others, and it also results in a better understanding of the debate.
Anyway, relating to Carter:
I think some of it is motivated by that, but by no means "an overwhelming portion." So I disagree with Carter here.
Yeah, I'm around -8 on the economic scale and -3 on the social one. Hope that doesn't cause any heart attacks. :-)
How do you feel about the dem party now grabbing the "racisim" tag?
Not those just posting at Kos or DU but the political leaders.
Will that hurt race relations?
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Rebel,
I have a quick question for you, what the hell happened to your party? It seems that since the mid to late 60's the DNC has been taken over by far-left radicals who are sympathetic to left-wing despots and Communists?
So, WTF?
You'd have to specify which left-wing despots. Not too many Democrats are sympathetic to Kim Jong-Il, for example.
Carl,
How do you feel about the dem party now grabbing the "racisim" tag?
Not those just posting at Kos or DU but the political leaders.
Will that hurt race relations?
I don't like it. I think portions of the left have a fixation on accusing opponents of racism as a way to shut down debate and get an "easy win." The race card is played far too often. Not all opposition to progressive values springs from racism, and not all criticism of Obama does, either. When the left uses this race-based approach, we forfeit the opportunity to recognize and engage the real basis of opposition to our ideas, which is usually based on a conflict of core values.
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Rebel,
You'd have to specify which left-wing despots. Not too many Democrats are sympathetic to Kim Jong-Il, for example.
Carl,
I don't like it. I think portions of the left have a fixation on accusing opponents of racism as a way to shut down debate and get an "easy win." The race card is played far too often. Not all opposition to progressive values springs from racism, and not all criticism of Obama does, either. When the left uses this race-based approach, we forfeit the opportunity to recognize and engage the real basis of opposition to our ideas, which is usually based on a conflict of core values.
It is easy to overlook things so in honesty do you now or have you seen the same tactic used from the right.
We were accused constantly of "questioning their patriotism" yet I never saw where or how.
Perhaps that is due to a bias I have so am curious if you ever saw a national Republican do that or in any other way shut down discussion with broad accusations using strawmen like that.
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Rebel,
You'd have to specify which left-wing despots. Not too many Democrats are sympathetic to Kim Jong-Il, for example.
President Clinton promised North Korea's leader in a letter released today that if the planned international financing for new nuclear reactors fell through, he would do his utmost to have the United States provide them.
Last week the United States and North Korea reached an agreement in which the North pledged to freeze its nuclear program in return for having the United States and other members of an international consortium build two light-water reactors and provide oil until the reactors are built.
In the letter to Kim Jung Il, Mr. Clinton committed himself "to use the full powers of my office," subject to Congressional approval, to have the United States provide the reactors if the project is not completed for reasons beyond the control of North Korea, like a failure by South Korea or Japan to come up with all the money they have promised to build the reactors.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/27/world/clinton-in-letter-assures-north-koreans-on-nuclear-reactors.html
Yeah, a real icy relationship there...
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He's trying to stop the nuclear weapons program. What would be your preferred approach to that goal?
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He's trying to stop the nuclear weapons program. What would be your preferred approach to that goal?
By giving them MORE nuke tech? How'd that work out by the way?
One of the first things I'd prefer for the expediting of toppling the Jong-Il family dynasty, brought to you under the banner of communism BTW, over there would be rescindment of Executive Order 11905 Section 5(G).
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Lil'Kim, while secretly a hero to the American left, is too famous for failure to be advertised as a role model the way Fido and Yugo are, even though both Fido, Yugo, and Lil'Kim are one-in-the-same and interchangable. It's all about perception. It's all about racism, too. The American Left is not real fond of Yellow People.
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Lil'Kim, while secretly a hero to the American left, is too famous for failure to be advertised as a role model the way Fido and Yugo are, even though both Fido, Yugo, and Lil'Kim are one-in-the-same and interchangable. It's all about perception. It's all about racism, too. The American Left is not real fond of Yellow People.
Or despite their loyalty as a voting block the Jews.
I am also curious why the intense and inordinate hatred the left has for any religion relating directly to the Bible but such respect for all that are not.
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Or despite their loyalty as a voting block the Jews.
I am also curious why the intense and inordinate hatred the left has for any religion relating directly to the Bible but sucj respect for all that are not.
It's not so hard to understand when you accept that it is Satan himself which is driving the Left. Satan hates Christ and all things Christian. It's only natural.
I am firmly convinced Islam was invented by Satan. I don't believe for a second that everyone who subscribes to Islam is a Satan worshipper on purpose. There is a lot of ignorance and simple-mindedness involved, just like with the simpler folks to follow the American Left. There just isn't the intelligence out there to really think things through to their logical conclusion. Satan and the American Left depend on and build on that sad pathetic side of human nature.
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It's not so hard to understand when you accept that it is Satan himself which is driving the Left. Satan hates Christ and all things Christian. It's only natural.
I am firmly convinced Islam was invented by Satan. I don't believe for a second that everyone who subscribes to Islam is a Satan worshipper on purpose. There is a lot of ignorance and simple-mindedness involved, just like with the simpler folks to follow the American Left. There just isn't the intelligence out there to really think things through to their logical conclusion. Satan and the American Left depend on and build on that sad pathetic side of human nature.
That is my belief too but am curious as to how one that perhaps holds a differing religious view would explain it.
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That is my belief too but am curious as to how one that perhaps holds a differing religious view would explain it.
To hold a differing view is to deny the truth on purpose, or be one of the simple ones who cannot think for themselves, so it really doesn't matter. Their views are not valid in reality.
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Hello all, thank you for the welcome. I must admit, I can't imagine getting such a reasonable welcome if I were a conservative posting on DU (supposing for a moment that conservatives were allowed to post on DU, which of course they are not).
This is encouraging, although I expect that the warnings some gave are correct and I might encounter some hostility as the discussions progress. I will try to avoid responding unkindly to such hostility. This is you guys' house and I am a guest in it.
Thank you for not biting my head off immediately. I was wondering if the claim that this forum welcomes lefties to sign up and discuss the issues was genuine. It seems that it is. I congratulate you on being sincere about this invitation.
Again, reasonable discourse is the name of the game. We'll just as cheerfully kick in the balls anyone (say, a Ronulan) who comes here with the, "I'm right, you're wrong, and if you don't agree you're an idiot" meme, regardless of their beliefs or point of view.
I'm not going to say liberals are always wrong and conservatives always right, although I would argue that we're right for the majority of people the majority of the time.
Hey, as long as you're willing to do your homework and come correct, I will state for the record that the vast majority of us will do the same. One gets back what one gives. That being said, welcome.
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The reasons why we do not want a "public option" is because:
1. If it ever passes, a great number of businesses will unload all of their healthcare policies in favor of the government one, preferring to relieve themselves of the burden and headaches, and to try to offset the high corporate taxes they have to pay. This will inevitably reduce the amount of choices people will have, not increase them.
2. Private insurance companies, or any business for that matter, cannot compete with an entity that does not require a profit to stay in business. The result will be more insurance companies will be forced out of business and all that will be left is the government "option".
3. There are quite a few people (mainly young adults) who simply do not want health care coverage at all, preferring to spend their money on other things. Why then will they be fined (http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/16/health.care/index.html) if they don't have health insurance?
4. All of this will ultimately lead to the public option being the only option.
5. Let's not forget about how much all this will cost, which will always, always be far greater than they first predicted.
6. Always
7. If the public option gets passed, more people will go to their doctors for more innocuous things (thinking they have "free health care" now), which will further strain the system. And that's even if the number of doctors remain constant. However, that will not be the case (http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199). This can only end in disaster.
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I am firmly convinced Islam was invented by Satan. I don't believe for a second that everyone who subscribes to Islam is a Satan worshipper on purpose. There is a lot of ignorance and simple-mindedness involved, just like with the simpler folks to follow the American Left. There just isn't the intelligence out there to really think things through to their logical conclusion. Satan and the American Left depend on and build on that sad pathetic side of human nature.
Oh now, Demonic Underwear, sir, I must beg to differ, slightly.
I've never made a secret of my own deeply-held religious convictions, which on the surface seem oppositely opposed to Islam.
But on the other hand, given the common heritage of both Christianity and Islam derived from Judaism, it seems to me that there's a divine reason Islam exists.
But since reality is infinite, and the human ability to comprehend finite, we aren't, really, capable of understanding why something "is," other than that it surely must exist for some purpose beyond our ability to recognize and understand.
I respect Islam for what it is, and like Sir Thomas More admonishing Henry VIII during the Dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church, one should not condemn an institution because of carnal men who misuse and abuse it.
It's sort of like this "hate the sin, but love the sinner" thing.
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Or despite their loyalty as a voting block the Jews.
I am also curious why the intense and inordinate hatred the left has for any religion relating directly to the Bible but such respect for all that are not.
I can't explain the Jews, and quite a number of Jewish friends of ours have tried to enlighten us, but it boils down (as best as I can determine) to a "survivors guilt" issue that drives Jewish folks to the left, coupled with the ancestral heritage for many European Jews who were, and still are to an extent much more emotionally aligned with communism as a political ideology than the right, although they actually live their lives as the ultimate conservative capitalists.......it is really complex........and made more so by the fact that the majority of American Jewish folks live in the northeast, where being a leftist is Che' sheik'.......and they are good at blending in with the surrounding populations, as they have had to do so for the 2000 years of the diaspora, just to survive.....
For the rest of the American left, they hate all biblical religions simply because we believe in an inflexible moral compass that divides right and wrong, and we won't compromise on it for any reason, which flies in the face of the "moral relativism" that comprises much of the leftist ideology..........
doc
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Oh now, Demonic Underwear, sir, I must beg to differ, slightly.
So noted and understood.
I respect Islam for what it is, and like Sir Thomas More admonishing Henry VIII during the Dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church, one should not condemn an institution because of carnal men who misuse and abuse it.
It's sort of like this "hate the sin, but love the sinner" thing.
I think I am free to condemn such an institution. I have no doubt what the institution would evolve into today was never lost on Satan. It was expected and desired. In fact, it was destiny by design.
It will come to pass, the final great battle. It will not be between nations. It will not be because of politics. It will be between the False Religion of Satan and the True and Everlasting Light.
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It will come to pass, the final great battle. It will not be between nations. It will not be because of politics. It will be between the False Religion of Satan and the True and Everlasting Light.
But how can one be certain Islam is the False Religion of Satan?
How can one be sure it's not something else, such as socialism?
All I know is that it's not Christianity, which sustains and nourishes man, this Evil.
And Islam itself has a proven track record of sustaining and nourishing those living in a place and environment hostile to man.
Remember, what seems to be, isn't always.
And of course Evil is good at masquerading.
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But how can one be certain Islam is the False Religion of Satan?
How can one be sure it's not something else, such as socialism?
All I know is that it's not Christianity, which sustains and nourishes man, this Evil.
And Islam itself has a proven track record of sustaining and nourishing those living in a place and environment hostile to man.
Remember, what seems to be, isn't always.
And of course Evil is good at masquerading.
We are also seeing "secular humanism" referred to as a religion, more and more. What could be more "satanic" than equating humans with God? Is that not what Lucifer did in a way?
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We are also seeing "secular humanism" referred to as a religion, more and more. What could be more "satanic" than equating humans with God? Is that not what Lucifer did in a way?
That's what I'm wondering.
If not the false religion of socialism, what about the false religion of secular humanism?
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That's what I'm wondering.
If not the false religion of socialism, what about the false religion of secular humanism?
Isn`t that a predominate part of Marxisim...the denial of God and elevation of man.
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Isn`t that a predominate part of Marxisim...the denial of God and elevation of man.
Yes--much more so than in Islam, whose principal belief, although malpracticed by those using Islam for malicious purposes, is "submission to God."
I suspect the false idol is Marxism, communism, socialism, secular humanism.
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Yes--much more so than in Islam, whose principal belief, although malpracticed by those using Islam for malicious purposes, is "submission to God."
I suspect the false idol is Marxism, communism, socialism, secular humanism.
A perfect combination of how to destroy any country, and kill many innocent lives.
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My God, the One and Only, had Mohammad (and Muhammad) in mind when He issued Commandment #1.
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Oh my.
One is speechless.
Welcome, and sit down, relax, and kick off the shoes, making yourself comfortable.
We're mellow here, and as you pointed out, sane people can disagree without getting all wrought up and upset.
It's apparent you don't know me very well Coach. Heh, heh, heh!
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It's apparent you don't know me very well Coach. Heh, heh, heh!
Oh, I know you well, sir.
We go back a long ways, more than half a decade.
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Oh, I know you well, sir.
We go back a long ways, more than half a decade.
Ah yes! The days of DUmmie Funnies, The Big Red Round One, and Diebolds own Bev Harris! lol!
I do tend to not cut liberals much slack, doncha know! One of these days we'll have to get together and toss a few Red Labels.